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Diamond noob needs advice on a Cushion

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Does Mark provide ASET images and photographs? I am somewhat leery of making such a large purchase online. I just want it to look awesome to the average person. I have often found that in many things the last 10% before perfection comes at a humoungous price premium and is basically unnoticible to the non expert.

The last time I bought diamonds was a 5k 5stone ring (My 5th Anniversary) from Costco. I know that they are at least I/VS2 but highly doubt they are some ideal signature cuts. All I really know is they looked great to me and my wife is constantly getting compliments for them(probably over a 100 times by now). Happy Wife = Happy me.

I made her a promise to buy a large solitaire on our 10 year anniversary since I could not afford much when we just got married. I just want to get her something that makes the average person say wow and brings a smile to her face. I do not intend it as an investment or to ever sell it.
 
Mark can provide ASET and photos on request, he does have a great rep with cushions so you would be in good hands. Also if you are considering EGL graded diamonds in some cases the grading can be soft so an independant appraisal would be essential should you decide to buy one. Some EGL labs can be less strict than others with EGL USA being the strongest of these labs.
 
Date: 1/7/2010 4:38:12 AM
Author: Iaujla
Does Mark provide ASET images and photographs? I am somewhat leery of making such a large purchase online. I just want it to look awesome to the average person. I have often found that in many things the last 10% before perfection comes at a humoungous price premium and is basically unnoticible to the non expert.

Photographs Yes
ASET Yes he did for me but this seems to be uncommon practice for him.

If you look at this video it will put things into perspective http://www.vimeo.com/7611843 at about 4:50 minutes or so you can see an average vintage cushions and watch until about 5:30. Both the ones on the left would be similar to what you can expect. The ones on the right are optimized August Vintage cushions.

Neither vendor will steer you to a dud that is for sure so don''t worry about not getting compliments but you have to decide if a little obstruction or leakage under the table is acceptable to your or your wife, for some it is for others it isn''t. Many here would sacrifice a lot to get the best cut while others prefer a little bigger and will accept a compromise in cut neither is wrong just a preference.
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Date: 1/7/2010 4:38:12 AM
Author: Iaujla
Does Mark provide ASET images and photographs? I am somewhat leery of making such a large purchase online. I just want it to look awesome to the average person. I have often found that in many things the last 10% before perfection comes at a humoungous price premium and is basically unnoticible to the non expert.

The last time I bought diamonds was a 5k 5stone ring (My 5th Anniversary) from Costco. I know that they are at least I/VS2 but highly doubt they are some ideal signature cuts. All I really know is they looked great to me and my wife is constantly getting compliments for them(probably over a 100 times by now). Happy Wife = Happy me.

I made her a promise to buy a large solitaire on our 10 year anniversary since I could not afford much when we just got married. I just want to get her something that makes the average person say wow and brings a smile to her face. I do not intend it as an investment or to ever sell it.
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the two you posted from Abazias are great number wise. I''m not sure if I''m out of line here, but from my experience from reading these forums and searching for my own cushion, GIA is never very consistent in their description of cushion (cushion brilliant, cushion modified brilliant, cushion brilliant modified, etc etc). My feeling was that the "official" term for a cushion brilliant was a cushion with a 8-main pavilion structure, either the modern or vintage style (fatter paviliions). everything else was termed a cushion modified brilliant/cushion briliant modified. could just be me though.

with that said, i did the search hoping to find you a cushion with an 8-main pavilion since it seemed like you very attracted to the cushion brillian style. i''ve seen 8-mains and 4-mains with my own eyes, and i would say that the 8-mains perform more reliably than the 4-mains. when CCL linked me to the cushion i currently have, i really had very few doubts that this would be a bad stone. 4-mains are a lot less predictable. some look like crushed ice, some don''t, and some are beautiful! if you are now open to both 8-main and 4-main cushions, there''s a lot more flexibility for you. there are TONS of 4-main cushions out there (you can check out james allen, who provides images of their stones online) but very few 8-mains in your carat range.

my fiance felt similarly about buying online, but pricescope is the ideal place to get advice, there are tons of experts here. any vendors they recommend are reliable, friendly, and will work to give you the best quality for the price. i really think that since you are spending so much on a stone, you should try to get the best bang for your buck, not just something that looks "awesome to the average person." everyone here on the forums are always trying to maximize quality for their budget, so if you''re looking for the opinion of the average person, you''re in the wrong place!
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the most importnat thing is to go forward with what you''re most comfortable with. if you find something online that strikes your fancy, don''t hesitate to contact the vendor for images, ASETs, etc. as a warning, not all online websites will provide things such as an ASET. if you work with say ERD and GoG, you can be sure that you will get the workups you want. working with someone even if it''s through the internet can save you a lot of time and effort searching for a diamond that requires your eyes to judge how pretty it is. i was trying to search for cushions on my own and was exhausted, i was so grateful to have an expert on my side and giving me his expert opinion.

you can do a search on PS for Good Old Gold or ERD and you''ll find so many happy consumer with their cushions. i have yet to read a negative review about the stones selected by either of these vendors. we''re not trying to steer you wrong here, just trying to get you the best quality cushion for your money!
 
Date: 1/7/2010 1:05:20 PM
Author: sweetpea&babycorn

Date: 1/7/2010 4:38:12 AM
Author: Iaujla
Does Mark provide ASET images and photographs? I am somewhat leery of making such a large purchase online. I just want it to look awesome to the average person. I have often found that in many things the last 10% before perfection comes at a humoungous price premium and is basically unnoticible to the non expert.

The last time I bought diamonds was a 5k 5stone ring (My 5th Anniversary) from Costco. I know that they are at least I/VS2 but highly doubt they are some ideal signature cuts. All I really know is they looked great to me and my wife is constantly getting compliments for them(probably over a 100 times by now). Happy Wife = Happy me.

I made her a promise to buy a large solitaire on our 10 year anniversary since I could not afford much when we just got married. I just want to get her something that makes the average person say wow and brings a smile to her face. I do not intend it as an investment or to ever sell it.
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the two you posted from Abazias are great number wise.

Not not really. Very Thick or Extra Thick Girdles has to be checked, 65 - 69% depth would be preferred and both are outside this range. But this may or may not make a difference except in faceup size.

I''m not sure if I''m out of line here, but from my experience from reading these forums and searching for my own cushion, GIA is never very consistent in their description of cushion (cushion brilliant, cushion modified brilliant, cushion brilliant modified, etc etc).

No. They do make a few mistakes but the criteria is quite consistent.

My feeling was that the ''official'' term for a cushion brilliant was a cushion with a 8-main pavilion structure, either the modern or vintage style (fatter paviliions). everything else was termed a cushion modified brilliant/cushion briliant modified. could just be me though.

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In the past the term modified was given to cushions with more than 58 facets. This applied to both round brilliants and cushions. Recently as of October 2009 GIA has decided to include stones identified with the following plots (attached below) to be the only stones to be called cushion brilliants (although even some of these may be classified as old mine brilliant see https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/help-with-cushion.129188/) with variations on these to be callled modified brilliant. See plots below for the types of cushion brilliants.

with that said, i did the search hoping to find you a cushion with an 8-main pavilion since it seemed like you very attracted to the cushion brillian style. i''ve seen 8-mains and 4-mains with my own eyes, and i would say that the 8-mains perform more reliably than the 4-mains. when CCL linked me to the cushion i currently have, i really had very few doubts that this would be a bad stone.

That is not true either. I took an educated guess in reccomending the stone I did to you due to a familiarity with this particular cutter and the similarity between the series of stones sold previously and my own. Even from the same cutter this is not always true especially in vintage 8 main cushions. I would defer to a vendor to make reccomendation and take the risk rather than trying to define trends in the numbers. The numbers can be used to reject unlikely candidates but not select any stone so I caution you about claiming a particular cushion will be beutiful just based on the numbers and plot, that is often not the case.

4-mains are a lot less predictable. some look like crushed ice, some don''t, and some are beautiful! if you are now open to both 8-main and 4-main cushions, there''s a lot more flexibility for you. there are TONS of 4-main cushions out there (you can check out james allen, who provides images of their stones online) but very few 8-mains in your carat range.

The round brilliant has been optimized and an 8 mian cushion has very similar faceting except the outline is different. That makes it easier for a cutter to nail the interplay between the crown and pavillion facets which has been done in the Square Cushion Hears and Arrows. More work is required for any other cushion like the 4 main, and there may be a lot of them but very few good ones available and none that reach the precision of an 8 main. I am still waiting for Gary and Sergey to further develop their 4 main cushion, one of the ones they showed me in video shows great promise for the future but the current market is not that promising.
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These plots were sent to me directly from Jan Tilton at GIA.
Cushion Brilliants

cushionplotss.jpg
 
Based on the plots, what I have seen is that the plot on the top left corner will generally give you the chunky cushion. The most beautiful modern cushions will have the two right plots on the bottom row. Most of the cushion brillants out there will have the plot on the top right.

Modified cushion brillants will not have these plots. They look similar but you will see a ring of facets and the mains don''t go to the edge of the diamond. In my opinion, it makes it look ugly and no matter what people say - you can see the difference.
 
Date: 1/8/2010 1:01:06 AM
Author: CharmyPoo
Based on the plots, what I have seen is that the plot on the top left corner will generally give you the chunky cushion. The most beautiful modern cushions will have the two right plots on the bottom row. Most of the cushion brillants out there will have the plot on the top right.

Modified cushion brillants will not have these plots. They look similar but you will see a ring of facets and the mains don't go to the edge of the diamond. In my opinion, it makes it look ugly and no matter what people say - you can see the difference.
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Not every modifed was listed here but some of the most common ones. As the name implies facets are added in the pavillion so it resembles a "modification" or variation of one of the cushion brilliant types.

cushionmodifieds.jpg
 
How does this diamond look? Its similar to the earlier 2 with good face up size but its LW ratio is closer to what you guys liked. Debth and table looks to be what you guys recommend as well.

http://www.abazias.com/database/NewDiamondInfo.asp?stock=74433325&flag=ps

I have contacted Mark at ERD but he hasnt sent me anything yet. I am still looking around but havent spotted many 8 main Cushion Brilliants yet that meet my specifications. Hopeully, the 4 main Cushions looks close to the one I saw on the GoG video.
 
Date: 1/8/2010 2:29:34 PM
Author: Iaujla
How does this diamond look? Its similar to the earlier 2 with good face up size but its LW ratio is closer to what you guys liked. Debth and table looks to be what you guys recommend as well.

http://www.abazias.com/database/NewDiamondInfo.asp?stock=74433325&flag=ps

I have contacted Mark at ERD but he hasnt sent me anything yet. I am still looking around but havent spotted many 8 main Cushion Brilliants yet that meet my specifications. Hopeully, the 4 main Cushions looks close to the one I saw on the GoG video.
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Small differences in the LW ratio are not going to make a big difference and we would be guessing anyway you have to see them or at least get ASET + photograph. If you really want to compare find stones with a perfect LW ratio = 1. Its a lot easier to cut a perfectly square cushion with better light performance and optical precision than a rectangular one especially with the modern faceted 4 mains you keep linking to. I've never seen a good 4 main one with a ratio over 1.1 and the best ones are all perfectly square. I would call Mark at ERD on the phone or speak to Jonathan at GOG on the phone, email is definitely slower, see what they can come up with.
 
Date: 1/8/2010 3:49:28 PM
Author: Iaujla
I talked to MArk on the phone yesterday and he said he would email some suggestions to me. Still havent received anything yet though. I expanded my search a bit and found a chnky facet stone I think. It is not GIA certified but it is above my minimum specs of I/VS2 so hopefully equivalent to an I/VS2 GIA.

http://www.abazias.com/database/NewDiamondInfo.asp?stock=1699031998&src=builder
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Ratio of 1.05 more square. As long as you know based on price it would likely be graded by GIA as J or K color but if that doesn''t bother you might call it in or have Mark at ERD do so.
 
Did you try calling GOG?
 
I did not call GOG since I had decided to call Mark at ERD. Ironically, Mark is actually recommending to me one of the diamonds I independently found and linked earlier. My wife wants me to at least check out the EGL USA Chunky and a few others before I make any decision though.
 
I agree 110% with the previous posters in that you should contact Jon or Mark to source a stone for you. I think it is imperative that you rely on an expert to assist you in this process. Cushions are very different than other cuts and cannot accurately be assessed by numbers alone.

I am currently working with Jon for a chunky cushion in much the same price and spec range as you. All I stated to Jon is the desired color and clarity range, shape/ratio and budget. Since I have COMPLETE confidence in his extensive knowledge about cushion cuts I am leaving the selection process entirely in his hands. I have NO doubt that the options he presents me will be the most beautiful (needle in a haystack) cushions.

It seems as if you want to be a very hands-on active participator in the process but I strongly advise that you heed the advise that has been offered to you and assume the role of the co-pilot in this process.

Good look and keep us informed!
 
Although I think Mark is amazing, he is the type of vendor who will sell you what he has accessibility to especially if you are not very specific in what you want. I really think you need to see these 8 Mains (either modern or chunky) we are are talking about in real life. Once you see them, you may not want to consider these 4 mains that you are finding. Well.. at least that is what happened to me and my fiance. There is no going back for us ... Modified Cushion Brillants are yucky but the 4 main cushions falls in the same camp for me now too. Again .. all this is personal preference but I really want you to be sure before you make a choice.
 
Date: 1/8/2010 8:48:44 PM
Author: Iaujla
I did not call GOG since I had decided to call Mark at ERD. Ironically, Mark is actually recommending to me one of the diamonds I independently found and linked earlier. My wife wants me to at least check out the EGL USA Chunky and a few others before I make any decision though.
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That one would have to be called in by a vendor who can do the analysis, also an independant appraisal would be necessary to make sure the grading checks out.
 
Bumping to tell the OP to keep his options open.

Calll Jon at GOG or check online for updates on his cushion inventory. A 2ct H SI1 is in the process of being published and a 2.37 is currently on it''s way to AGS for grading. Timing could not be better for you and since Jon is a fanatic in re: to cut, I bet these chunks will be beauts.
 
Wife would not really like an SI1 designation eventhough it may be eye clean. I would doubt the 2.37 will be with in my budget. Still looking though. Going to ask Mark to try to get a couple 8 main Cushions for me to compare to.
 
You are more than allowed to talk to more than one vendor at a time. I think it is good to try a couple vendors to see who you gel with best and to compare what they can offer.
 
Date: 1/11/2010 1:12:09 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie
You are more than allowed to talk to more than one vendor at a time. I think it is good to try a couple vendors to see who you gel with best and to compare what they can offer.
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ITA and thank you
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Iaujla, I am not by any means trying to sway you away from Mark. Quite the contrary as I understand that he is also a very knowledgeable and well-respected cushion expert. All that I am suggesting is that you keep your options open and consider additional vendors. Just because a stone is not listed on a vendor's or PS's virtual inventory, it does not mean that alternative unpublished stones aren't currently available (waiting to be graded and/or published OR on-route to a vendor) .
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Regardless of the cushion that you decide to buy and vendor that you opt to purchase from, I think it is important to view the stone IRL prior to purchasing. If you are unable to view IRL than IMO the next best thing is to view via video (which I am sure Jon will be more than happy to provide).

 
IMHO, I would definitely talk to Jonathan at Good Old Gold. I just bought three august vintage cushions from him. I am taking them to an independent appraiser tomorrow pm and then sending them back to be mounted. I bought some lower colored stones, but you would never know it by the cut!

ps...I am a total noob as well and am in no way affiliated with any of these helpful people! Just a satisfied customer.

lindakushen3.jpg
 
That is a tiffany novo reproduction. I think that Brian Gavin Diamonds does a really good version of this. Its called the novela. Do a search and you will find threads with pics.
 
Date: 1/13/2010 5:05:02 PM
Author: Iaujla
I talked to Jon and will see what he comes up with.

Anyone know what this setting is called? Its the second set of pictures on this page with a GoG1003 number http://www.goodoldgold.com/SettingSearch/august_vintage_rings/

Anyone know of any similar looking settings they could recommend?
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Glad to hear that you contacted Jon. You are in very good hands. Can''t wait to see the beauties that he has to offer.
 
I am somewhat tempted by this diamond http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/5711 on GoG''s site, especially at the 12k price point. I told Jon, I would like a diamond with similar optics (see http://www.vimeo.com/7580907 3rd diamond) but with a smaller table and a 5-10% larger face up size.

He sent me a link for http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6922/ which is a nice looking diamond but has a similarly large table and has a much SMALLER face up size to the one I somewhat like. I sent him another email to clarify what I am looking for.
 
If you don''t like the diamond, just say no and keep waiting. I passed on the first diamond from Jon anad was happy that I did because I love the second one offered to me. This is my diamond - http://www.vimeo.com/6072381
 
Date: 1/15/2010 4:39:54 PM
Author: Iaujla
I am somewhat tempted by this diamond http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/5711 on GoG''s site, especially at the 12k price point. I told Jon, I would like a diamond with similar optics (see http://www.vimeo.com/7580907 3rd diamond) but with a smaller table and a 5-10% larger face up size.

He sent me a link for http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6922/ which is a nice looking diamond but has a similarly large table and has a much SMALLER face up size to the one I somewhat like. I sent him another email to clarify what I am looking for.
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See what Jon can come up with, it will be worth holding off and getting exactly what you want in the long run!
 
Seconding the "wait for what you want" philosophy. Jon finds AMAZING cushions and there is so much variety in shapes and performance that you should make sure you find exactly what you want.
 
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