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Diamond Engagement Ring Help

S

SChong

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 2, 2018
Messages
8
Hi all,

I've just joined the community and have got a lot of help all the threads; though I still don't fully understand what makes a truly spectacular diamond.

After searching brick and mortar and online shops, I think I've narrowed down my options to a Solasfera or 3 H&A.

I was wondering if I could get your opinions on:
1) H&A or Solasfera
2) Which of the below H&A diamonds would you personally go for? (Is Brian Gavin and WhiteFlash worth the extra $ as the James Allen diamond looks similar and has a cleaner plot?)
3) Should I continue looking for something better? If so, what kind of characteristics should I be looking out for?​

3 H&A options:
Brian Gavin (heard he is the pioneer in this field)
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/.../1.221-g-vs1-round-diamond-bkags-104102261039
WhiteFlash
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2631630.htm
James Allen [worried about clarity based on clouds not shown (why are they not shown?)]
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs1-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-6089544

Many thanks for your thoughts,

Simon
 
I would go for the HPD stone @whitewave posted or the WF one. Either will be stunning, and both vendors are known for excellent upgrade policies and outstanding customer service. BGD and JA both have restrictive upgrade policies, so I would go with the other stones (and not going for solsafera).
 
Regarding upgrade policies, JA has the worst of the lot. That one is super restrictive.

BGD requires 2 of 3 upgrades from carat, colour or clarity in addition to the new stone costing more (even if it is only $1 more). Not as restrictive as one would suggest, but it can make life difficult if you can’t find a stone that fits at the time of upgrade.

WF and HPD have the best upgrade policies in my books.

As for H&A v Solasfera. It’s a different look and I won’t say one is worse than the other (as the saying goes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder).

I would say however that my preference is for a H&A stone as you get a nice balance between brilliance, fire and scintillation relative to a Solasfera. That also helps out at resale time (if you ever go down that road) as a Solasfera is a stone that not as many people may be looking for.

What is it with some of these True Hearts stones on James Allen these days? I’m seeing more AGS graded stones on JA that have no inscription on the girdle (one would not think that is a major cost for the cutter when getting the stone graded). The one you have selected above is one of them. My fear if you go down that road is that you aren’t actually going to get the stone that is listed.

At least with BGD, WF and a CBI stone via HPD, you can verify that the stone you receive matches the grading report without requiring that an appraiser have a Sarine machine to scan the dimensions so you can confirm the specs.

For the money, the WF stone can’t be beat. Don’t think that I can spot that crystal under the table based off that magnified image.
 
whitewave said:
I suggest taking off solsafera and add HIgh Performance Diamonds: https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10466

HP diamonds and whiteflash have the same upgrade policies (IIRC)... no categories or spending double. Brian Gavin has a more restrictive upgrade policy.

In car. Keep losing signal. More later.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link. I've actually never heard of HD Diamonds (I'm based in the UK, so I've only heard of the well known online diamond retailers in the US). How do they compare to Whiteflash, Brian Gavin and James Allen?
 
SChong said:
Thanks for the link. I've actually never heard of HD Diamonds (I'm based in the UK, so I've only heard of the well known online diamond retailers in the US). How do they compare to Whiteflash, Brian Gavin and James Allen?
Click to expand...

HPD, or High Performance Diamonds, is a retailer, and a really fantastic one at that. @Wink is the owner, part of this community and a true diamond enthusiast that is NOT driven by money but rather what is in the best interest of clients so he can form long lasting friendships and business relationships with them.

CBI, or Crafted By Infinity, sources the diamond rough, analyzes using 3D technology to maximize proportions and beauty and then cuts the stone to exacting standards. They then supply HPD and some other retailers with their stones to sell to the public.

As you can probably gauge by the enthusiasm in my post, I have great respect for HPD and CBI and feel they truly offer a great high quality product that comes with some of the best customer service and upgrade policies in the industry.

I get equally excited to talk and recommend WF and BGD. FWIW, WF also participates in these forums on a regular basis. Unfortunately, BGD does not actively participate at this point; however, they do occasionally read & monitor threads. Both WF and BGD are very customer focused so they too offer top notch customer service to their clients and like HPD/CBI they are driven to do the right thing for the client even without being monetarily driven. I find this a real asset in today's world where most people focus on profit instead.

While a certain vendor may click with your personality or offer a price point/diamond you want I don't think you can really make a bad choice with any of them honestly.

If buying locally is important to you, CBI has some UK based retailers.
 
Durham Rose in Stratford as well as Diamond House in London carry Crafted by Infinity. You may have to contact them first to have them call some in.... not sure they have any in house. It would be worth it IMO for you to see them.

I own two Crafted by infinity diamonds, many from Blue Nile, a growing amount from B2C jewels, etc. I plan to get a tennis bracelet from Whiteflash, etc, so that’s disclosure lol.

To answer your question, yes, I would say Brian Gavin, WhiteFlash and Crafted by Infinity (I use High Performance Diamonds and they can work with you over the internet etc. HPD only sells Crafted by Infinity) are about equal as they all sell “super ideal” diamonds. To me, James Allen is not in that group, though you can find a great diamond there. Beware of sales at JA, as we have had many complaints about shipping times turning out to be longer than quoted during a sale.
 
sledge said:
HPD, or High Performance Diamonds, is a retailer, and a really fantastic one at that. @Wink is the owner, part of this community and a true diamond enthusiast that is NOT driven by money but rather what is in the best interest of clients so he can form long lasting friendships and business relationships with them.

CBI, or Crafted By Infinity, sources the diamond rough, analyzes using 3D technology to maximize proportions and beauty and then cuts the stone to exacting standards. They then supply HPD and some other retailers with their stones to sell to the public.

As you can probably gauge by the enthusiasm in my post, I have great respect for HPD and CBI and feel they truly offer a great high quality product that comes with some of the best customer service and upgrade policies in the industry.

I get equally excited to talk and recommend WF and BGD. FWIW, WF also participates in these forums on a regular basis. Unfortunately, BGD does not actively participate at this point; however, they do occasionally read & monitor threads. Both WF and BGD are very customer focused so they too offer top notch customer service to their clients and like HPD/CBI they are driven to do the right thing for the client even without being monetarily driven. I find this a real asset in today's world where most people focus on profit instead.

While a certain vendor may click with your personality or offer a price point/diamond you want I don't think you can really make a bad choice with any of them honestly.

If buying locally is important to you, CBI has some UK based retailers.
Click to expand...

Thanks you very much for the information, particularly on HPD; very informative. Good to get your opinion on the different vendors and that there are UK options as this avoid the headache of FX conversion etc.
 
whitewave said:
Durham Rose in Stratford as well as Diamond House in London carry Crafted by Infinity. You may have to contact them first to have them call some in.... not sure they have any in house. It would be worth it IMO for you to see them.

I own two Crafted by infinity diamonds, many from Blue Nile, a growing amount from B2C jewels, etc. I plan to get a tennis bracelet from Whiteflash, etc, so that’s disclosure lol.

To answer your question, yes, I would say Brian Gavin, WhiteFlash and Crafted by Infinity (I use High Performance Diamonds and they can work with you over the internet etc. HPD only sells Crafted by Infinity) are about equal as they all sell “super ideal” diamonds. To me, James Allen is not in that group, though you can find a great diamond there. Beware of sales at JA, as we have had many complaints about shipping times turning out to be longer than quoted during a sale.
Click to expand...

Thanks you very much for response. It really helps to know an actual opinion of a customer of all those retailer, it also boosts confidence on buying online from the vendors you mentioned. I will go off and do more research on Crafted Infinity and hopefully the UK vendors can help. I will try Diamond House as am close to The Royal Exchange, though I've been in many times and never seen Diamond House shop.

I think I will give JA diamond a miss as I didn't realise there was no etching of the AGS number (bmfang response) which adds a bit of the complexity to verifying what you buy is what they say; though I will get an valuation in the UK and many reviewers have noted JA are reputable.
 
bmfang said:
Regarding upgrade policies, JA has the worst of the lot. That one is super restrictive.

BGD requires 2 of 3 upgrades from carat, colour or clarity in addition to the new stone costing more (even if it is only $1 more). Not as restrictive as one would suggest, but it can make life difficult if you can’t find a stone that fits at the time of upgrade.

WF and HPD have the best upgrade policies in my books.

As for H&A v Solasfera. It’s a different look and I won’t say one is worse than the other (as the saying goes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder).

I would say however that my preference is for a H&A stone as you get a nice balance between brilliance, fire and scintillation relative to a Solasfera. That also helps out at resale time (if you ever go down that road) as a Solasfera is a stone that not as many people may be looking for.

What is it with some of these True Hearts stones on James Allen these days? I’m seeing more AGS graded stones on JA that have no inscription on the girdle (one would not think that is a major cost for the cutter when getting the stone graded). The one you have selected above is one of them. My fear if you go down that road is that you aren’t actually going to get the stone that is listed.

At least with BGD, WF and a CBI stone via HPD, you can verify that the stone you receive matches the grading report without requiring that an appraiser have a Sarine machine to scan the dimensions so you can confirm the specs.

For the money, the WF stone can’t be beat. Don’t think that I can spot that crystal under the table based off that magnified image.
Click to expand...

Thanks for noting that the JA stone has no etching on the girdle; this helps me rule it out. Only going to buy an engagement ring once, touch wood; so best to pay a little more for extra quality and peace of mind.
 
@Durham Rose are active on this forum so they might be able to confirm if you can book an appointment to check out some CBI stones - they are only a short walk away from Stratford Station IIRC (although I don't think GoogleMaps was up-to-date last time I checked) and CBI stones really have to be seen in real life!

If you do go, make sure to ask to check them out in flat uplighter lighting or near the window if it's overcast (which it will be - it's Britain :D lol) - it's those sort of lighting conditions where you can really see how CBI stones have edge-to-edge brightness that maximises how large they look on the finger!

I bought one for my good lady - no regrets at all :))
 
I’ve read that it’s not that hard for a jeweller to polish out and/or etch a certificate number in a diamond ... therefore, it’s not as much security as you think, and can be considered damage to the polish. If the diamond has an inclusions and map, that can be used to identify the diamond with more accuracy.
Can the experts please weigh in on this?
 
If you buy a stone with an inclusions plot on the grading certificate, you can ask to check the stone with a loupe or microscope (depending on what the jeweller has) against the plot and etched number before purchase, then again after it has been set, to make sure it is the same stone.

Etching a grading report number on a girdle about half a millimeter wide takes very accurate laser equipment, the cost of which would seem likely to vastly outweigh the 'benefit' of being able to falsify stones' grading reports, so I think it very unlikely to happen. I have not read about an instance of it happening on this forum.

The bonus of buying SuperIdeal stones from the PS-recommended vendors is that they are markedly better than the standard rubbish one finds in local stores, so if you purchase a loose stone, you will undoubtedly spend a lot of time looking at it (guilty as charged :lol: lol) and get to know how it performs, so it is quite easy to spot the difference an 'average' stone presents.

The PS-recommended vendors are recommended for a reason. You can purchase from them in confidence, and use a credit card with payment protection for extra security.

Please post a link to where you have seen the claims being made.
 
kmoro said:
I’ve read that it’s not that hard for a jeweller to polish out and/or etch a certificate number in a diamond ... therefore, it’s not as much security as you think, and can be considered damage to the polish. If the diamond has an inclusions and map, that can be used to identify the diamond with more accuracy.
Can the experts please weigh in on this?
Click to expand...

That can be the case. I have read that as well. Inclusions can help to identify a stone but I would think that not all appraisers would have access to top shelf scanning equipment to enable them to scan a stone to ensure that angles and specs of the stone more or less agree with a grading report.

But if you are buying a True Hearts stone, that is usually an AGS ideal and the vast majority of AGS ideals I have seen on the market do have grading report numbers inscribed on the girdle so that when a consumer does buy the stone, they can take it to an appraiser if they have concerns to verify that the stone they have bought matches the grading report it comes with. Of course, if there are some unscrupulous vendors out there, they’ll do whatever it takes to make a buck and pity the consumer who falls prey to those scum.
 
bmfang said:
Of course, if there are some unscrupulous vendors out there, they’ll do whatever it takes to make a buck and pity the consumer who falls prey to those scum.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately true :( but also the case in any given industry!
 
OoohShiny said:
@Durham Rose are active on this forum so they might be able to confirm if you can book an appointment to check out some CBI stones - they are only a short walk away from Stratford Station IIRC (although I don't think GoogleMaps was up-to-date last time I checked) and CBI stones really have to be seen in real life!

If you do go, make sure to ask to check them out in flat uplighter lighting or near the window if it's overcast (which it will be - it's Britain :D lol) - it's those sort of lighting conditions where you can really see how CBI stones have edge-to-edge brightness that maximises how large they look on the finger!

I bought one for my good lady - no regrets at all :))
Click to expand...

I've requested an appointment with Durham Rose. Hopefully I will get a response soon and see what a CBI diamond looks like. Thanks for the tip of checking out the diamond in different lightening conditions (they all seem to look great under the spotlights).
 
I've read about, but not experienced or known anyone, that fell prey to tampering of the inscription.

Vehicles come with VIN plates for easy ID. Additionally the VIN is normally stamped in a few other places on the frame as well. Experienced car thieves can manuever around and overcome these ID mechanisms but that is a very small problem compared to the huge benefit it offers. As such, we don't have the mentality of using a diagram to pinpoint unique dents and scratches to identify our cars.

Someone can weigh in but I think it's around $200-300 to have the inscription done. As others noted it's tiny and rather precise so I doubt many have the equipment to do so. I see no reason why JA would intentionally avoid the inscription. This is for their benefit too. Honestly I would ask them their reasoning for excluding it. If they tell you, please let us know.
 
SChong said:
I've requested an appointment with Durham Rose. Hopefully I will get a response soon and see what a CBI diamond looks like. Thanks for the tip of checking out the diamond in different lightening conditions (they all seem to look great under the spotlights).
Click to expand...
Excellent, let us know how it goes!

You can do some shopping at the nightmare that is Westfield Shopping Centre afterwards :D lol

You are totally right about the magic lights being designed to make even rubbish stuff look good!
 
sledge said:
Someone can weigh in but I think it's around $200-300 to have the inscription done. As others noted it's tiny and rather precise so I doubt many have the equipment to do so. I see no reason why JA would intentionally avoid the inscription. This is for their benefit too. Honestly I would ask them their reasoning for excluding it. If they tell you, please let us know.
Click to expand...
IIRC, Wink charged me an extra $150 for a AGS report and inscription after CBI recutted my stone, but this was in 2004.

JA doesn't have control over the stones they sell b/c their stones are owned by the suppliers. IOW JA stones are not in-house.
 
Dancing Fire said:
IIRC, Wink charged me an extra $150 for a AGS report and inscription after CBI recutted my stone, but this was in 2004.

JA doesn't have control over the stones they sell b/c their stones are owned by the suppliers. IOW JA stones are not in-house.
Click to expand...

I was under the impression that stones in their True Hearts line were in-house compared with stones that weren’t. Even so, that still begs the question from me as to why the cutters for a number of them that are listed as True Hearts didn’t bother to request inscription of the report number on the girdles.

My understanding is that the vast majority of GIA graded stones listed there (if not all) have report numbers girdle inscribed.
 
bmfang said:
I was under the impression that stones in their True Hearts line were in-house compared with stones that weren’t. Even so, that still begs the question from me as to why the cutters for a number of them that are listed as True Hearts didn’t bother to request inscription of the report number on the girdles.

My understanding is that the vast majority of GIA graded stones listed there (if not all) have report numbers girdle inscribed.
Click to expand...

I'm not really sure what JA keeps in their vault and what they don't. I do know I was helping someone else the other day and they were looking at a stone on JA that was a "True Hearts" stone and I found it listed elsewhere with other virtual dealers indicating to me it wasn't in JA's vaults, nor proprietary to them.
 
sledge said:
I'm not really sure what JA keeps in their vault and what they don't. I do know I was helping someone else the other day and they were looking at a stone on JA that was a "True Hearts" stone and I found it listed elsewhere with other virtual dealers indicating to me it wasn't in JA's vaults, nor proprietary to them.
Click to expand...

Maybe that has changed over the last couple of years then. When I was looking around at the end of 2016 for push presents for my wife, at that time I was told that JA’s True Hearts range was in-house. Obviously it ain’t the case nowadays.
 
I think you’re right and that it appears JA has somewhat changed how it handles inventory, as well as changes (not good ones) to their policies. They used to offer a lifetime buy-back for something like a 20% discount from the purchase price, and I’m pretty sure the upgrade policy was not as restrictive either. My memory might be fooling me, but I think they used to have some in-house inventory, probably the H&A, but now appears all virtual. However, I haven’t seen very many of their stones offered by other vendors. *shrug*
 
Here's the original thread I was talking about:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/thoughts-on-cut-please.244702/

And here are the excerpts that matter (I've edited for brevity). The stone in question is the 1.07 D IF, listed as a True Hearts on JA and was originally suggested by @farrahlyn. I just happened to find it for about $2k cheaper at two other vendors.

farrahlyn said:
ETA: as far as cut, it meets AGS ideal so you're good. Its not my preferred specs but still a nice stone.

if you're looking for as perfect as possible with color, clarity and cut and don't mind fluoro, how about this:

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-if-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-5819420
Click to expand...

sledge said:
Now for the curve ball....

1.07ct D IF, GIA, True Hearts, 35/40.6, 56 table, 61.8 depth, 75 LGF, medium fluor = $13,400

Or maybe not such a mystery. The 1.06ct does not show to be available elsewhere; however, the other two stones can be had with other retailers for considerably less money. It'd be very tempting to jump on that 1.07ct D VVS1. =)2

1.07ct D VVS1 = $9,145 vs JA $11,240
https://www.fourmine.com/shop/diamond/1135829?utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=2018


1.07ct D IF = $11,210 vs JA $13,400
https://www.zoara.com/diamonds/p_ro...tm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc#?p=9576374

https://www.fourmine.com/shop/diamo...ce=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=2018
Click to expand...
 
kmoro said:
I think you’re right and that it appears JA has somewhat changed how it handles inventory, as well as changes (not good ones) to their policies. They used to offer a lifetime buy-back for something like a 20% discount from the purchase price, and I’m pretty sure the upgrade policy was not as restrictive either. My memory might be fooling me, but I think they used to have some in-house inventory, probably the H&A, but now appears all virtual. However, I haven’t seen very many of their stones offered by other vendors. *shrug*
Click to expand...

Looks like things definitely have changed after they were bought out by Signet last year.
 
OoohShiny said:
Excellent, let us know how it goes!

You can do some shopping at the nightmare that is Westfield Shopping Centre afterwards :D lol

You are totally right about the magic lights being designed to make even rubbish stuff look good!
Click to expand...

I’ll let you know how I get on at Durham Rose. It seems like they don’t hold CBI stock but they can order in to view. Though they have a bespoke ring making service, so will be interested in what the possibilities are.

In the meantime I will keep an eye on WF options and the in and out of importing a diamond.

However, if anyone has recommendations of other diamonds on the market, with similar characteristics, I would be grateful for their suggestions.

I know Stratford Westfield well as I don’t live that far away. Will probably pop in for a browse and some food.
 
SChong said:
I’ll let you know how I get on at Durham Rose. It seems like they don’t hold CBI stock but they can order in to view. Though they have a bespoke ring making service, so will be interested in what the possibilities are.

In the meantime I will keep an eye on WF options and the in and out of importing a diamond.

However, if anyone has recommendations of other diamonds on the market, with similar characteristics, I would be grateful for their suggestions.

I know Stratford Westfield well as I don’t live that far away. Will probably pop in for a browse and some food.
Click to expand...

Are they ordering some in for you to view?
 
whitewave said:
Are they ordering some in for you to view?
Click to expand...

My sincere apologies for my late reply.

Durham Rose have selected some CBI diamonds and hopefully we get to view them next week.

Whiteflash have also been in contact (original posted seems to have been sold) along with David Diamonds (Solasfera option), and there are options at Brian Gavin; so still a number of excellent options open.

Once I see the CBI diamonds from Durham Rose; I’ll seek all of your opinions and make a final decision :shock:.
 
SChong said:
My sincere apologies for my late reply.

Durham Rose have selected some CBI diamonds and hopefully we get to view them next week.

Whiteflash have also been in contact (original posted seems to have been sold) along with David Diamonds (Solasfera option), and there are options at Brian Gavin; so still a number of excellent options open.

Once I see the CBI diamonds from Durham Rose; I’ll seek all of your opinions and make a final decision :shock:.
Click to expand...
Will look forward to your feedback! :)

If Durham Rose are able to also bring in an 'average' GIA XXX stone to compare to, that should help demonstrate the difference that really great cut makes :)
 
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