Krissie
Brilliant_Rock
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Democrat Discussion -with RULES-
- Thread starter Ali
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So guys - what are you looking forward to when Obama gets elected (can also be just a wish that may be more likely to come true under a non-republican president)? I''ll start:
(a) NOT having the concepts of strong "values", "morality" and "tradition" co-opted by conservative views of family and gender relations or associations with religion, among other things.
(b) NOT having the concepts of "patriotism" associated with the support of isolationism, war, and ethnocentrism, among other things.
Cheers,
Rob
(a) NOT having the concepts of strong "values", "morality" and "tradition" co-opted by conservative views of family and gender relations or associations with religion, among other things.
(b) NOT having the concepts of "patriotism" associated with the support of isolationism, war, and ethnocentrism, among other things.
Cheers,
Rob
decodelighted
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Interesting. I read something today comparing "patriotism" with "nationalism" ... they describe patriotism as thinking our country is awesome & nationalism as thinking our country is the BEST country, and our government the BEST government, and our ways the BEST ways.
Reminds me of the "Pro-America" parts of the country discussions ... we''re all Pro-America!
decodelighted
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This post is like a warm hug.
Excerpt: what did Barack Obama say when questioned about the weird and terrible plot on his life ? He was not angry or outraged or even really sad or shocked. He just said, "I think what has been striking in this campaign is the the degree to which these kind of hate groups have been marginalized." He''s, uh, totally right!
Excerpt: what did Barack Obama say when questioned about the weird and terrible plot on his life ? He was not angry or outraged or even really sad or shocked. He just said, "I think what has been striking in this campaign is the the degree to which these kind of hate groups have been marginalized." He''s, uh, totally right!
iheartscience
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miraclesrule
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Amen to that Rob. But the truth is that a President doesn''t have the power to change a person''s thoughts. He can try to manipulate them lies and fears, but alas, it''s the individual who has to change their mind about the ingrained concepts of "patriotism" which is completely absurd given the loss of liberty that the "Patriotic Act" ripped from the American populace. I am really glad that at least we still have the right to bear arms. I like that it was intended for us to guard ourselves from the tyranny of a would be dictatorship.
At least we still have that liberty left.
At least we still have that liberty left.
brazen_irish_hussy
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pennquaker09
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FrekeChild
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Ellen
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iheartscience
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Ellen, that sounds hilarious! I hope I get to see that one! LOL!Date: 10/29/2008 8:17:39 AM
Author: Ellen
Oh my gosh, I just saw the BEST 30 second clip Obama is putting out. It shows McCain''s own words (quotes) on his inadequacy with economics, and the last one ends with him saying he may need to rely on his VP for help. It then asks, who did he pick? And shows a shot of SP winking.
Ellen
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This is neither here nor there, but since this is a discussion thread, and discussions meander....
Greenspan admits free market has foundered
I find this article interesting because years ago I had a roaring debate with a self-styled "objectivist" on another forum. I was at that point unversed in Ayn Rand''s ideas. I quickly educated myself about her (bought and read a few books - her "Philosophy - Who Needs It" and others) and her little "cult" - complete with all the characteristics of a cult - devoted-to-the-point-of-worshipful followers, sex with multiple followers (brazenly announced to her husband, who took it like a tame cat), the works. And then I read that Alan Greenspan had been one of her whirly-eyed sycophants, and a lot of stuff became very clear. All I can think of is if this is such a Christian country, whither then the belief that we are sinful from birth (ie - selfishness and greed is in our "nature" and are NOT good things), the poor will always be with us and we are to take care of them. Certainly not the creed of Rand.... Here''s a clip from this article....
Whatever else you might say about the man, Alan Greenspan took his punishment like a grown-up.
While Rand’s “objectivism,” as she called her philosophy, never attained the wide appeal she sought, many of its tenets and language have been absorbed into modern conservative economic theory. And Greenspan is far from alone in acknowledging that it has not held up well in current circumstances. As a result, issues long regarded as settled in American politics are about to be reopened.
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more article at link above
Greenspan admits free market has foundered
I find this article interesting because years ago I had a roaring debate with a self-styled "objectivist" on another forum. I was at that point unversed in Ayn Rand''s ideas. I quickly educated myself about her (bought and read a few books - her "Philosophy - Who Needs It" and others) and her little "cult" - complete with all the characteristics of a cult - devoted-to-the-point-of-worshipful followers, sex with multiple followers (brazenly announced to her husband, who took it like a tame cat), the works. And then I read that Alan Greenspan had been one of her whirly-eyed sycophants, and a lot of stuff became very clear. All I can think of is if this is such a Christian country, whither then the belief that we are sinful from birth (ie - selfishness and greed is in our "nature" and are NOT good things), the poor will always be with us and we are to take care of them. Certainly not the creed of Rand.... Here''s a clip from this article....
Whatever else you might say about the man, Alan Greenspan took his punishment like a grown-up.
Appearing before the House Oversight Committee last week, the former Federal Reserve chairman acknowledged that the anti-regulatory, hyper-free-market ideology that had served him well for 40 years — a philosophy that he literally learned at Ayn Rand’s knee — had in some ways been wrong.
And not just slightly wrong. The economic crisis has revealed a flaw, he said, “a flaw in the model that I perceived as the critical functioning structure that defines how the world works.”
Greenspan did not come easily to that confession, but the fact he came to it at all speaks well of his intellectual honesty. As a young man, Greenspan had been a member of Rand’s inner circle, absorbing her claims that altruism was evil, that taxes should be voluntary, that mankind had no responsibility to others and that “each man must live as an end in himself and follow his own rational self interests.”
“I am opposed to all forms of control,” Rand proclaimed. “I am for an absolute laissez-faire free unregulated economy. I am for separation of state and economics.”
The young Greenspan lapped up talk like that. In a letter in 1957 to the New York Times, he defended Rand’s philosophy. “Justice is unrelenting,” he wrote. “Creative individuals and undeviating purpose and rationality achieve joy and fulfillment. Parasites who persistently avoid either purpose or reason perish as they should.”
Time and experience eventually softened the harsh edges of that belief for Greenspan, but he never wavered in his opposition to regulation or in his belief that individuals, left free to selfishly pursue their own self-interests, would generate wealth and make markets self-correcting without the heavy hand of government.
That’s the part he got partially wrong, he said last week.
“Those of us who have looked to the self-interest of lending institutions to protect shareholders’ equity, myself especially, are in a state of shock and disbelief,” he told the committee.
While Rand’s “objectivism,” as she called her philosophy, never attained the wide appeal she sought, many of its tenets and language have been absorbed into modern conservative economic theory. And Greenspan is far from alone in acknowledging that it has not held up well in current circumstances. As a result, issues long regarded as settled in American politics are about to be reopened.
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more article at link above
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Good news! Obama Leads or Tied in Eight Crucial States
swimmer
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Great post Ksinger, wonder how libertarians feel about this...
ETA: sitting at my desk, wondering why I'm so fired up...went canvassing in NH last night and chatted with a lot of Reps and Indys voting for Senator Obama, until we hit a housing project. Everyone there was solidly McCain except for the nice family from India who can't vote but offered us some food. People living in public housing were opposed to Obama's plan to raise their taxes. Ummm, how to say, "honey, you are not earning more than $250,000, don't let it stress you." Oh the irony, don't let me interrupt you organizing your foodstamps. Good luck voting for McCain!
ETA: sitting at my desk, wondering why I'm so fired up...went canvassing in NH last night and chatted with a lot of Reps and Indys voting for Senator Obama, until we hit a housing project. Everyone there was solidly McCain except for the nice family from India who can't vote but offered us some food. People living in public housing were opposed to Obama's plan to raise their taxes. Ummm, how to say, "honey, you are not earning more than $250,000, don't let it stress you." Oh the irony, don't let me interrupt you organizing your foodstamps. Good luck voting for McCain!
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Isn''t that sad? People are so uninformed. In this day and age, with 24/7 access to whatever information we choose, I don''t think there''s any good excuse for this.
Obama''s tax plan and the "redistribution of wealth" are so hotly debated lately, but I wonder how many of those who are worried about the implications of Obama''s tax plan have actually taken the time to READ Obama''s tax plan???
E B
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Date: 10/29/2008 8:17:39 AM
Author: Ellen
Oh my gosh, I just saw the BEST 30 second clip Obama is putting out. It shows McCain''s own words (quotes) on his inadequacy with economics, and the last one ends with him saying he may need to rely on his VP for help. It then asks, who did he pick? And shows a shot of SP winking.
Oh, man, I''ve GOT to see this! I''m off to search online.
Kaleigh
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I can''t wait to see this!!!Date: 10/29/2008 11:43:39 AM
Author: EBree
Date: 10/29/2008 8:17:39 AM
Author: Ellen
Oh my gosh, I just saw the BEST 30 second clip Obama is putting out. It shows McCain''s own words (quotes) on his inadequacy with economics, and the last one ends with him saying he may need to rely on his VP for help. It then asks, who did he pick? And shows a shot of SP winking.
Oh, man, I''ve GOT to see this! I''m off to search online.
iheartscience
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It''s on HuffingonPost now! link to ad
Ellen
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E B
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trillionaire
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The Vet Who Did Not Vet
This is the best thing I have seen all day!
I thought this was cute, funny, poignant. No mean comments guys, lets stay within the rules and keep our forum positive!
This is the best thing I have seen all day!
I thought this was cute, funny, poignant. No mean comments guys, lets stay within the rules and keep our forum positive!
Kaleigh
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The Ultimate Guide to Men’s Wedding Bands: Metals, Fit & Finish
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