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Defund police?

Musia

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2020
Messages
832
Anyway, I am entertaining 3 extra children for the next 2 weeks and don't really have the time to elaborate on everything, I wish I did
Thank you for your time, you are a generous person! Yes, we are sometimes feeding big crowds on holidays like Thanksgiving, than why can't we sell lunches to our neighbors without being certified? I hope I understood you correctly. Have fun with kids!
 
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GliderPoss

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
2,561
Police rarely stop crime, only come afterwards which is why I choose to have protection for myself and my family. I prefer to stop the crime, especially in my own home, instead of having police investigate a crime (especially violent) against me or my loved ones.
:eek-2: This is literally the most amazing (American?) response I've ever read - your solution to tackle crime is TO BUY MORE GUNS... :naughty: How about MORE FUNDING towards educating Police for a better future.

I guess Oz is very different thankfully but I genuinely fail to see how reducing resources for the police force will improve things. You know why they might be slow to respond? Coz there wasn't enough police officers on duty at that time, probably due to budget reasons. Privatising police will only create militia which is a huge risk, as it would create the risk of "conflict of interest". Police should be impartial to politics/private business etc.. make sense?
 

JrJ

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2018
Messages
273
Thank you for your time, you are a generous person! Yes, we are sometimes feeding big crowds on holidays like Thanksgiving, than why can't we sell lunches to our neighbors without being certified? I hope I understood you correctly. Have fun with kids!
Exactly. My neighbors can make me brownies and bring them to me and I can choose to eat them (rightfully so) but people can’t do this from their home to make money without heavy regulations and being certified. Then men with guns are used to confront these people which seems SO extreme and backwards to me.
:eek-2: This is literally the most amazing (American?) response I've ever read - your solution to tackle crime is TO BUY MORE GUNS... :naughty: How about MORE FUNDING towards educating Police for a better future.

I guess Oz is very different thankfully but I genuinely fail to see how reducing resources for the police force will improve things. You know why they might be slow to respond? Coz there wasn't enough police officers on duty at that time, probably due to budget reasons. Privatising police will only create militia which is a huge risk, as it would create the risk of "conflict of interest". Police should be impartial to politics/private business etc.. make sense?
Yes, I am pro gun. I will not depend on another person (a knight in shinning armor?) to save me. I am very independent, always have been. Probably too much but it worked out very well until I had to learn how to compromise with my husband! I eventually learned
Did you read the other stuff I posted?
I used to be a “throw more money at it” kind of person but am not any more. It is a money pit that I see the government has weaponized against us. This is not a “need more training” issue.
 

JrJ

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2018
Messages
273
:eek-2: This is literally the most amazing (American?) response I've ever read - your solution to tackle crime is TO BUY MORE GUNS... :naughty: How about MORE FUNDING towards educating Police for a better future.

I guess Oz is very different thankfully but I genuinely fail to see how reducing resources for the police force will improve things. You know why they might be slow to respond? Coz there wasn't enough police officers on duty at that time, probably due to budget reasons. Privatising police will only create militia which is a huge risk, as it would create the risk of "conflict of interest". Police should be impartial to politics/private business etc.. make sense?
Did you totally ignore the fact that we would still have a federal government to make sure militias weren’t formed?
Also, just ignore possible decreasing the number of victimless laws. Yeah, I JUST want more guns.
 

GliderPoss

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
2,561
Yes, I am pro gun. I will not depend on another person (a knight in shinning armor?) to save me. I am very independent, always have been. Probably too much but it worked out very well until I had to learn how to compromise with my husband! I eventually learned
Did you read the other stuff I posted?
I used to be a “throw more money at it” kind of person but am not any more. It is a money pit that I see the government has weaponized against us. This is not a “need more training” issue.
I am genuinely sorry you feel that way. I understand the desire to be independent, but not everyone is in the same situation as you so others rely on the Police to be that "knight in shinning armour" so to speak. It's about protecting the whole community. Again I reiterate it's a different perspective from a different country.
 

JrJ

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2018
Messages
273
I am genuinely sorry you feel that way. I understand the desire to be independent, but not everyone is in the same situation as you so others rely on the Police to be that "knight in shinning armour" so to speak. It's about protecting the whole community.
And.... that is where private police fit in, for the community, and a federal government to make sure there are no militias.
We also have “Neighborhood Watch” programs in most areas I have lived in (even now) and it could just be expanded further as more protective. As a matter of fact the more I think about this, having a neighborhood watch with a trained individual or two could possibly help a lot. And, owners of shopping centers and malls could provide something like this too. Anyway, I need to go. This is why I don’t jump into these, it is impossible to get away.!
 

Musia

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2020
Messages
832
@GliderPoss I thought we already have militia. Antifa and some other groups. I had previously posted videos in another thread.

I had been really scared that our small peaceful town would be under attacks of looters and rioters but my husband stayed cool. He said that we have Apple here, one of the biggest donors of Democratic party and BLM, so police won't allow our town to be ruined. Police however was ordered not to stop riots in areas where minority lived and had their businesses. And allow monuments to fall. Create mess in areas that doesn't have the giants like Apple, Amazon or Google. And in case you didn't read my earlier posts, I am against defunding police. So IMHO police isn't impartial to politics or private businesses.
 

GliderPoss

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
2,561
We also have “Neighborhood Watch” programs in most areas I have lived in (even now) and it could just be expanded further as more protective. As a matter of fact the more I think about this, having a neighborhood watch with a trained individual or two could possibly help a lot.
I really like this idea! Used to be popular in Oz too, I remember as a kid certain houses having this sticker - you could always go to them for help. A clear distinction would need to be made in terms of what "powers" they could have & what is best left to the professionals.

site-icon-512x512.png
 

OreoRosies86

Ideal_Rock
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Joined
Dec 25, 2012
Messages
3,207
I find it pretty troubling that armed officers don’t need to attend much more than 6 months worth of training, while doctors and lawyers spend YEARS in school learning to responsibly utilize their powers in dealing with high stress cases.
 

GliderPoss

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
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Messages
2,561
Police however was ordered not to stop riots in areas where minority lived and had their businesses. And allow monuments to fall. Create mess in areas that doesn't have the giants like Apple, Amazon or Google.
Can I ask how specifically you know that? ie. who ordered it? It would indeed be a terrible thing if true. :(( Do you think the Police were also fearful for their lives in these areas, or felt to engage would only make matters worse?
 

GliderPoss

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
2,561
I find it pretty troubling that armed officers don’t need to attend much more than 6 months worth of training, while doctors and lawyers spend YEARS in school learning to responsibly utilize their powers in dealing with high stress cases.

Again I realise this may vary from country to country, someone I know who is Police officer spent about 6 months at initial training but then 7 years to move up in rank, with constant training on the job plus many courses to upgrade her skills. It was a long process before she was considered expert at her job, to be trusted to deal with certain situations etc!
 

Musia

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2020
Messages
832
Can I ask how specifically you know that? ie. who ordered it? It would indeed be a terrible thing if true. :(( Do you think the Police were also fearful for their lives in these areas, or felt to engage would only make matters worse?
I just saw what was going on and tried to make a sense of what I was seeing. Police get orders from the Sheriff I believe. Sheriff answers to no one (in an ideal world), in our world he may be corrupted. CNN claimed that protests were mostly peaceful. If not, then people had the rights to be angry. And I agree with you, police were fearful for their lives, and engaging with angry mobs could make things only worse. I think that all violent protests were well organized and paid for. My humble opinion. The killing of Floyd took place in front of the camera and no one said or did anything to help him. After that police became extremely unpopular and police brutality widely criticized and protested. Mob was aiming their forces mainly at police first, then they started damaging businesses and looting stores. Police in that situation weren't able to stop riots. Now I believe they are not getting orders to protect monuments. Trump offered to send help in the form of the National Guard. But accepting armed help from Trump if you are a liberal mayor/governor in a liberal state is never an option. Now the governor of Minnesota is asking Trump for 500 mil. to somehow fix the damaged city of Minneapolis. We don't watch CNN or FOX, we don't have cable TV or dish. But there was enough information for us to read, listen and see from reliable sources (in my humble opinion there are reliable)
 
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1ofakind

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
1,120
@Musia I hope you don't mind if I clarify some things since we have many members outside the US. Sheriffs are elected officials and accountable to the voters just like politicians. They are county officials. They don't work for politicians and are independently run departments. Often this is in rural areas outside of cities. This is why some sheriffs can say they will not enforce the dictates of politicians that they feel are unjust or politically motivated or even unpopular...the sheriffs are accountable to their voters.

In urban areas like Minneapolis (the flash point for the riots) the Chief of Police (not sheriff) reports directly to the mayor. If they disobey the mayor they can be removed from their position. So when the mayor says to stand down or abandon a police station or not to engage with rioters as they burn, loot and even attack the police....then those are the orders that go out. The police chief is just following orders. That is what happened in most of the areas with the worst rioting. It was the mayor of Seattle who said to abandon the police station, to let the encampment stay and continue....until people got killed and she found herself being the focus of protesters. It is largely mayors of these cities who are not allowing police to protect public and private property. The responsibility lies with the politicians not the police in nearly all of those circumstances.

In some areas there are both a Sheriff's office for the county and police departments that covers the city or cities within a county. And then on top of that the State Police. It can be a little confusing and may be run slightly differently in each state. Generally the State police have jurisdiction within the entire state and enforce state laws. The local/city police have jurisdiction within their city limits. The sheriff covers the areas of the county not covered by local/city police.

I hope that helps.
 
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TooPatient

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 1, 2009
Messages
9,233
Did you totally ignore the fact that we would still have a federal government to make sure militias weren’t formed?
Also, just ignore possible decreasing the number of victimless laws. Yeah, I JUST want more guns.
A thing to consider there is that having the federal government involved that way means additional power to federal and less for states. With the feds overseeing this, it opens up several other possible horrors. One that comes to mind is the atrocious state of VA (veterans') hospitals.
 

TooPatient

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 1, 2009
Messages
9,233
@GliderPoss I thought we already have militia. Antifa and some other groups. I had previously posted videos in another thread.

I had been really scared that our small peaceful town would be under attacks of looters and rioters but my husband stayed cool. He said that we have Apple here, one of the biggest donors of Democratic party and BLM, so police won't allow our town to be ruined. Police however was ordered not to stop riots in areas where minority lived and had their businesses. And allow monuments to fall. Create mess in areas that doesn't have the giants like Apple, Amazon or Google. And in case you didn't read my earlier posts, I am against defunding police. So IMHO police isn't impartial to politics or private businesses.
Check out the thread on CHAZ. Seattle has Amazon and Google (plus an Apple office -- or there had been as of a few years ago) and things were definitely a mess.
 

Musia

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2020
Messages
832
The responsibility lies with the politicians not the police in nearly all of those circumstances.
I understood this, just wasn't able to make a connection between police and the mayor. The link is the Chief of Police. Sure, this lady mayor of Seattle didn't give the right orders till the campers had arrived at her doorstep.
 

Musia

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2020
Messages
832
Check out the thread on CHAZ. Seattle has Amazon and Google (plus an Apple office -- or there had been as of a few years ago) and things were definitely a mess.
Thank you, but the areas that have them didn't suffer? Just wanting to clarify, to see if we are indeed safe here in the great town of Cupertino as my husband had promised.
 

TooPatient

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 1, 2009
Messages
9,233
Thank you, but the areas that have them didn't suffer? Just wanting to clarify, to see if we are indeed safe here in the great town of Cupertino as my husband had promised.
The area surrounding Amazon was one of the hardest hit in the riots and looting.

One of the buildings Microsoft is in (Bellevue) was also hit hard in the vandalism and looting.
 

JrJ

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2018
Messages
273
A thing to consider there is that having the federal government involved that way means additional power to federal and less for states. With the feds overseeing this, it opens up several other possible horrors. One that comes to mind is the atrocious state of VA (veterans') hospitals.
We currently have a federal government doing the same thing I think they should continue to be responsible for. Nothing will change in regards to that.
The federal government can do exactly what you are afraid of right now if they wanted.
 

1ofakind

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
1,120
Many-many thanks for clarifying! @GliderPoss please read what @1ofakind just wrought. I was so stupid to try to answer your question and @1ofakind was so slow with her response:) Now I can even educate my husband on the matter.
Oh please do not say you were stupid. I did not think that at all!! It can be confusing how policing works in different contexts and we have plenty here from other countries too! If one grew up in an urban area with a police department they might have no understanding of what a sheriff is or does. We've lived in a variety of places and had experiences with both!

ETA- we lived in one small town, incorporated but too small for it's own police department. At one point there was one officer. When he retired the town made arrangements to 'rent' the county Sheriff's Department to cover our are also. It worked out well. We paid a fee and had access to the full county sheriff resources and they were already covering all of the areas around us that were not incorporated...and we added $$ to their bottom line. Everyone was happy.
 
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JrJ

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2018
Messages
273
Exactly @TooPatient I'm not keen on having more federal control over the states...especially down to the level of local policing.
I don’t meant for them to start policing, just coming in, like they would now, if there was ever a territory problem. It would be only if needed, just like it would be now if the local police needed help
 

JrJ

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2018
Messages
273
I really think people are afraid if the unknown. We are used to the system we have
 

JrJ

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2018
Messages
273
A thing to consider there is that having the federal government involved that way means additional power to federal and less for states. With the feds overseeing this, it opens up several other possible horrors. One that comes to mind is the atrocious state of VA (veterans') hospitals.
I mean, I am pretty horrified by what local police are up to.
 

1ofakind

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
1,120
I don’t meant for them to start policing, just coming in, like they would now, if there was ever a territory problem. It would be only if needed, just like it would be now if the local police needed help
But now there are thousands of little neighborhood 'police like but not police' units in every state that need training and oversight. Good heavens.....you just know Karen the HOA president would want to run the neighborhood patrol....with the power to arrest if your bushes are grown over by 2 inches! LOL Or more seriously...who imposes arrest warrants, pulls over drunk drivers, removes kids from abusive situations, responds to a school shooting....the neighborhood patrol? And the feds are going to oversee all of this? I just don't see that....
We haven't even talked about how arrests, jail and court work without functioning police departments.
 

JrJ

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2018
Messages
273
But now there are thousands of little neighborhood 'police like but not police' units in every state that need training and oversight. Good heavens.....you just know Karen the HOA president would want to run the neighborhood patrol....with the power to arrest if your bushes are grown over by 2 inches! LOL Or more seriously...who imposes arrest warrants, pulls over drunk drivers, removes kids from abusive situations, responds to a school shooting....the neighborhood patrol? And the feds are going to oversee all of this? I just don't see that....
We haven't even talked about how arrests, jail and court work without functioning police departments.
I didn’t just say neighborhood patrol. I have said much more than that.
Schools can have private police or security to respond, just like any other entity. Abused kids, same thing, local private.Right now with the current system abused kids slip through the cracks and even non abused kids get taken away. If I have time Ican try to find articles showing these incidences.
can have public police for roads since that is how they are funded.
And, Karens already call on that stuff, it is nothing new. They call, if not fixed, you get cited and guess what happens when you don’t pay the citation? Police show up and we are in the same situation. Right now as it it!

Our police have been used against many of us for too long and it makes me sick. I have never broken the law but still hate knowing how abusive our police have been.

Ican’t keep going back and forth. Like I mentioned above, I even argued back and forth with myself for years about this, for police, not for police. I finally came to the conclusion that we have been duped. I wouldn’t feel this way if we didn’t have so many victimless laws.
 

JrJ

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2018
Messages
273
But now there are thousands of little neighborhood 'police like but not police' units in every state that need training and oversight. Good heavens.....you just know Karen the HOA president would want to run the neighborhood patrol....with the power to arrest if your bushes are grown over by 2 inches! LOL Or more seriously...who imposes arrest warrants, pulls over drunk drivers, removes kids from abusive situations, responds to a school shooting....the neighborhood patrol? And the feds are going to oversee all of this? I just don't see that....
We haven't even talked about how arrests, jail and court work without functioning police departments.
I honestly don’t know how you think I meant neighborhood watch would be the only police/security. I am pretty sure I mentioned private security and police, it goes for all private property, including shopping centers and malls, which would then be pretty obvious for others line schools, train stations or anything else that could be brought up.
And, privatizing doesn’t mean there will be no courts, they can be privatized and it just means giving more control over what laws are important to the citizens rather than relying on another entity that can use it for nefarious reasons.
 
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