Find your diamond
Find your jewelry
shape
carat
color
clarity

Defund police?

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
28,701
Yes, there are serious problems among police departments ... I can understand and support reforming them ... ... ... but ... ... ... defunding? :confused:

What would a city/state/country be like with no police?
Or, is the idea they all work as volunteers (for free) and pay for their own police cars and buildings?

Just imagine calling 911 and nobody answers.
People want that? :think:

What am I missing?
 

JPie

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 12, 2018
Messages
3,397
From the Brookings Institute:

“Defund the police” means reallocating or redirecting funding away from the police department to other government agencies funded by the local municipality. That’s it. It’s that simple. Defund does not mean abolish policing. And, even some who say abolish, do not necessarily mean to do away with law enforcement altogether. Rather, they want to see the rotten trees of policing chopped down and fresh roots replanted anew. Camden, New Jersey, is a good example. Nearly a decade ago, Camden disbanded (abolished) its police force and dissolved the local police union. This approach seems to be what Minneapolis will do in some form, though the nuances are important.

Different from abolishing and starting anew, defunding police highlights fiscal responsibility, advocates for a market-driven approach to taxpayer money, and has some potential benefits that will reduce police violence and crime. Below, I outline some of the main arguments for defunding the police.

More here: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixg...efund-the-police-mean-and-does-it-have-merit/
 

TooPatient

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 1, 2009
Messages
9,076
From the Brookings Institute:

“Defund the police” means reallocating or redirecting funding away from the police department to other government agencies funded by the local municipality. That’s it. It’s that simple. Defund does not mean abolish policing. And, even some who say abolish, do not necessarily mean to do away with law enforcement altogether. Rather, they want to see the rotten trees of policing chopped down and fresh roots replanted anew. Camden, New Jersey, is a good example. Nearly a decade ago, Camden disbanded (abolished) its police force and dissolved the local police union. This approach seems to be what Minneapolis will do in some form, though the nuances are important.

Different from abolishing and starting anew, defunding police highlights fiscal responsibility, advocates for a market-driven approach to taxpayer money, and has some potential benefits that will reduce police violence and crime. Below, I outline some of the main arguments for defunding the police.

More here: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixg...efund-the-police-mean-and-does-it-have-merit/
This is what the more reasonable people say and try to push for. I do not agree with it entirely, but I also don't disagree with it entirely.

There are others who really do want to completely get rid of the police. I wish I had saved screenshots as I saw the posts go by. Too many people have been saying that this is incorrect and they really do want to abolish all police.

How many want each is difficult to say. I'd like to hope very few want to get rid of police entirely, but I just don't know. A number of people I know are among those who want to see it all gone.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JrJ

TooPatient

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 1, 2009
Messages
9,076
What do they want instead?
It seems to differ a bit between people. Most seem to want nothing at all. Some have openly said that there is no reason for police because people can manage themselves. Others have suggested neighborhood watch sort of groups replace them.
 

Matata

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 10, 2003
Messages
7,141
I'm in favor of changing the system. I posted an article about this in another thread but this link is to an NPR interview. Larger cities with more diverse populations are asking the CAHOOTS team to help them develop models for their specific needs. I'm not in favor of getting rid of police.

 

Musia

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2020
Messages
572
Aren't police departments underfunded enough for them to constantly seek donations from general public? I was a long time donor, had many stickers on our cars (stickers say they won't give any donor any benefits in case that donor breaks the law)? I think only time will show how effective defunding police is going to be. Many cops are quitting their jobs or retiring now. 106909104_983693232080384_3074043096262449997_o.jpg Here is something AOC had said “Defunding police means defunding police,” the congresswoman said in a statement. “It does not mean budget tricks or funny math. It does not mean moving school police officers from the NYPD budget to the Department of Education’s budget so the exact same police remain in schools.”
 

JrJ

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2018
Messages
271
I differ from most people of the idea, I guess I really don't care either way.
Police rarely stop crime, only come afterwards which is why I choose to have protection for myself and my family. I prefer to stop the crime, especially in my own home, instead of having police investigate a crime (especially violent) against me or my loved ones.

My sis had a guy almost get in her home. She heard him at her door messing with the handle shortly after midnight and half asleep thought it was her boyfriend having trouble with the key. She started to open the door for him before realizing it was nobody she knew and quickly shut it. Then the man proceeded to try to get in moving from the door to each window. My sis was on the phone with 911 and it took over 20 min for the police to get there. Right before the police got there he decided to start smashing a window to gain entry. The police caught him but all I can think about when recalling this situation is "What if he smashed in the first window?!".
Anyway, I have never touched a gun prior to that and am now a well seasoned "gun nut", as most liberals would say.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
28,701
I differ from most people of the idea, I guess I really don't care either way.
Police rarely stop crime, only come afterwards which is why I choose to have protection for myself and my family. I prefer to stop the crime, especially in my own home, instead of having police investigate a crime (especially violent) against me or my loved ones.

My sis had a guy almost get in her home. She heard him at her door messing with the handle shortly after midnight and half asleep thought it was her boyfriend having trouble with the key. She started to open the door for him before realizing it was nobody she knew and quickly shut it. Then the man proceeded to try to get in moving from the door to each window. My sis was on the phone with 911 and it took over 20 min for the police to get there. Right before the police got there he decided to start smashing a window to gain entry. The police caught him but all I can think about when recalling this situation is "What if he smashed in the first window?!".
Anyway, I have never touched a gun prior to that and am now a well seasoned "gun nut", as most liberals would say.
So, you'd rather there just be no police to call?
Really?

Let's get rid of seat belts and airbags too, because sometimes in crashes people using them properly die anyway.
Hey, let's get rid of stoplights because sometimes people run them and kill others.
 

JrJ

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2018
Messages
271
So, you'd rather there just be no police to call? Really?

Let's get rid of seat belts and airbags too, because sometimes people die anyway.
I never said that.

Police rarely stop crime, not usually stop crime.
What you compared my opinion to is forbidding people to have and use seatbelts and airbags. I don't believe that people shouldn't be able to hire private security for protection.
I feel that police should be privatized and people should take the initiative to protect themselves.
I feel if police were privatized, there would be fewer victimless crimes. Look at Eric Garner and other innocent victims of police brutality, MANY of the crimes shouldn't be crimes.
I feel since they use tax money to fund the police we have given the government officials too much control over the police force and really use it against us.

I saw a woman selling ice cream from an ice cream truck being harassed by police (with guns!) at a park because some mom at the park didn't want to tell her child "no" to ice cream. There is no way anyone will ever convince me this is ok. I feel that this is a result of what I mentioned above.

I know there is no convincing anyone here of this. It took me years of denial of my own thoughts and realizations to get to this point.
 
Last edited:

Musia

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2020
Messages
572
@JrJ my husband has a good gun, and I want even better one for myself (I will start practicing shooting as soon as it will become possible). But I want police around for many other reasons. For other people who are against guns. I want a bad guy to know that police will come rather sooner than later and get him. Maybe we need more police officers, not less, so they could arrive in 3-5 minutes, not in 20 minutes?
 

JrJ

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2018
Messages
271
@JrJ my husband has a good gun, and I want even better one for myself (I will start practicing shooting as soon as it will become possible). But I want police around for many other reasons. For other people who are against guns. I want a bad guy to know that police will come rather sooner than later and get him. Maybe we need more police officers, not less, so they could arrive in 3-5 minutes, not in 20 minutes?
I get it. I used to feel the same way. I have very unorthodox views.
This is where I feel private security comes in. You or your community can dictate where they are stationed to keep you safe.
 

JrJ

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2018
Messages
271
Same reasoning ... all police aren't perfect every time so get rid of all of them.
It isn't the police I have a problem with. It is the fact that since they are tax funded the government officials get to control them and we end up with laws that end up causing more police interactions.
The more interactions, the more innocent deaths. Just think, What if the lady I mentioned above was trying to make rent, doing her very best? What if out of desperation she resisted because she started thinking of her and her children living on the streets? She will either end up killed or locked up in jail, having to pay for something she can't afford.
I feel like starting with fewer laws may help. I prefer privatizing.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
28,701
It isn't the police I have a problem with. It is the fact that since they are tax funded the government officials get to control them and we end up with laws that end up causing more police interactions.
The more interactions, the more innocent deaths. Just think, What if the lady I mentioned above was trying to make rent, doing her very best? What if out of desperation she resisted because she started thinking of her and her children living on the streets? She will either end up killed or locked up in jail, having to pay for something she can't afford.
I feel like starting with fewer laws may help. I prefer privatizing.
Yeah, I agree.
People should have lots of kids that they can't afford, then get free rent.
The hell with those evil landlords/ladies.

This is not a police problem.
 

TooPatient

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 1, 2009
Messages
9,076
One worry I would have about privatizing police would be that differing groups may enforce differently. It would also be a worry that they could fight over territory and even do what had been a problem in past -- pay up for protection or be assaulted until you do.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
28,701
One worry I would have about privatizing police would be that differing groups may enforce differently. It would also be a worry that they could fight over territory and even do what had been a problem in past -- pay up for protection or be assaulted until you do.
Solution: everyone just buys more and bigger guns.
Thanks Trump; this anarchy thing you have generated is really AWESOME! :dance::dance::dance::dance::dance:
 

smitcompton

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 11, 2006
Messages
2,640
Hi,

Defunding, to me , means the police will no longer have war tanks in our streets, and have personal protective equipment that also doesn't look as if they are in a war zone.

Police do not stop crime or catch criminals on a regular basis. They are reporters of crime. If they dress up as if they are attacking in a war zone, thats how they will feel about lawful protestors. Just take away the funding for the artilliary. SP.

I like the police. They do keep order. They do rsk their lives. I do not want them disbanded.

Annette
 

JrJ

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2018
Messages
271
One worry I would have about privatizing police would be that differing groups may enforce differently. It would also be a worry that they could fight over territory and even do what had been a problem in past -- pay up for protection or be assaulted until you do.
We will still have the federal government to prevent that from happening. I am not saying End the Fed
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
32,088
This is what
Solution: everyone just buys more and bigger guns.
Thanks Trump; this anarchy thing you have generated is really AWESOME! :dance::dance::dance::dance::dance:
Kenny, Here's what you need to do if we don't have a police dept...


Or call Colin Kaepernick for help.
 

JrJ

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2018
Messages
271
Yeah, I agree.
People should have lots of kids that they can't afford, then get free rent.
The hell with those evil landlords/ladies.

This is not a police problem.
If you really think that a woman selling ice cream or a man selling loose cigarets should be jailed or even harassed at all, I don't even know what to say.
 

JrJ

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2018
Messages
271
@JrJ my husband has a good gun, and I want even better one for myself (I will start practicing shooting as soon as it will become possible). But I want police around for many other reasons. For other people who are against guns. I want a bad guy to know that police will come rather sooner than later and get him. Maybe we need more police officers, not less, so they could arrive in 3-5 minutes, not in 20 minutes?
I believe we need fewer laws but when the police force is used the way it is now I don’t believe it is possible.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
28,701
If you really think that a woman selling ice cream or a man selling loose cigarets should be jailed or even harassed at all, I don't even know what to say.
To quote you, "I didn't say that".

Funny, in this thread I sound like a con, and you sound like a lib.
 

Musia

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2020
Messages
572
I feel since they use tax money to fund the police we have given the government officials too much control over the police force and really use it against us.
Interesting! I felt the same when police had been arresting people for opening their small businesses during lockdowns because they desperately needed money to feed their families. It was so unfair to keep Walmart open and small shops closed at the same time. Walmart can sell on-line while private small business owners can't. I felt so bad and frustrated because police had been used against good people. I don't want government to control me and my life. Too bad I am stupid and can't figure out what this new police reform is about. So I even won't read anything regarding this thing on-line. But I strongly feel that defunding police as AOC sees it will do much more harm than good, hopefully reversible. I afraid it will be a disaster :( actually.
 

JrJ

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2018
Messages
271
Interesting! I felt the same when police had been arresting people for opening their small businesses during lockdowns because they desperately needed money to feed their families. It was so unfair to keep Walmart open and small shops closed at the same time. Walmart can sell on-line while private small business owners can't. I felt so bad and frustrated because police had been used against good people. I don't want government to control me and my life. Too bad I am stupid and can't figure out what this new police reform is about. So I even won't read anything regarding this thing on-line. But I strongly feel that defunding police as AOC sees it will do much more harm than good, hopefully reversible. I afraid it will be a disaster :( actually.
You are NOT stupid.
I agree about the small businesses. I was and am for them not being forced to shut down. We don't have to go in in take a chance if we don't want. If they don't get enough business, they will be forced to shut down until the pandemic ends, I really don't think it affects us as much as people want to think it will.
During the lockdown I went to pick up a curbside order from Home Depot. They were SO MUCH busier during the week that day than they ever were on a weekend, customers going in and out and the parking lot full. It was insane. I feel like all of it should have been optional.

Now, take this example of how big corps were protected from the shut down. People like me see most laws as ways to protect big business and lobbies. Laws that require money and many hours to get certified in braiding hair, coloring hair, doing nails, restaurants...If I am allowed to do it myself (and I should, my body my choice) or from a neighbor for free, I should be allowed to pay whoever I want to do these things regardless of what the government wants for certifications. I just know I am going to get attacked for this. Let the daggers fly!
Anyway, I am entertaining 3 extra children for the next 2 weeks and don't really have the time to elaborate on everything, I wish I did.
 

Polabowla

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 15, 2019
Messages
586
Someone above mentioned Camden- that seems like a perfect argument to keep police. It is such a crime ridden city.
I agree it's terrifying not to have police to call in an emergency. And no it should not take 20 minutes to arrive either.
We need a better police force, not no police force.
 
Be a part of the community It's free, join today!
    Celebratory Engagement Ring Upgrade And Bracelet
    Celebratory Engagement Ring Upgrade And Bracelet
    Chiguys's Cushion Cut Engagement Ring
    Chiguys's Cushion Cut Engagement Ring
    Archduchess Eleonore von Habsburg and Jérôme d’Ambrosio Royal Wedding
    Archduchess Eleonore von Habsburg and Jérôme d’Ambrosio Royal Wedding

Need Something Special?

Get a quote from multiple trusted and vetted jewelers.

Holloway Cut Advisor



Diamond Eye Candy

Click to view full-size image.
Top