Deciding between diamonds with no time to spare!

[jtmoney]

Hey guys,

I could use some help making a decision on the right diamond for me and I think I have it isolated to a final four. My last post derailed from the original subject so I thought I'd try a new thread.

I'm having a hard time interpretting the Idealscope images since what I thought was best isn't quite where the gemologist at James Allen is leading me. From the pictures below, I would have thought the H-VS1 has the best symmetry and the most brilliance (although I'm not sure how to interpret all the black portions). Yet the JA folks are steering me towards the D-VS2 which looks a little out of shape.

Thoughts comments appreciated. I'm on a tight clock so that I can put the order through and still have the perfect proposal I have planned!

All have excellent cut / symmetry / polish from GIA

H-VS1


D-VS2


F-VS1


H-VVS2


I could use any help PSers have to offer to make sense of these images since I've been staring at them all day.

Thanks guys!

 

[Christina...]

Hhmm, I agree with you, I think I would have chosen one of the H's over the D. I like the looks of the black on the arrow shaft and the stars are nice and dark, which usually results in some nice fire. However, I'd have to consider what the gemologist is telling you because he is the only one able to see the stone right now. What exactly is he saying the benefit of the D is? Brighter? Better light performance? All of the IS look great so I don't think you could go wrong with any of them.

 

[jtmoney]

The gemologist had the following to say. Part of the reason I'm slightly skeptical is because the ranking of brilliance of high to low is the same as the price from high to low. I would have thought looking at the images the D was somewhat unsymmetrical. I guess the gemologists used by on-line vendors are usually pretty good about steering people down the right path?

The response I got is below

Diamond 1470709 (0.90crt D VS2) is the diamond that possesses the most fire,
brilliance, and scintillation. In addition to being the brightest, it is also the
whitest, featuring a gorgeous "D" color. Diamond 1480583 (0.90crt F VS1) is also
icy white and performs the second brightest of the group. Diamonds 1489673 (0.90crt
H VVS2) and 1447271 (0.91crt H VS1) appear bright and white in color in their own
right, but when compared to diamonds 1470709 and 1480583, they possess a slightly
warmer color tone and don't have quite the same fire and brilliance.

 

[yssie]

My 2c -

Skip the VVS - no point in paying for clarity you will never be able to appreciate.

I confess I sometimes don't know what to make of JA's gemologist reviews, sometimes they're so vague and sometimes they contradict my personal experience.

Of the remaining three you'd have to be pretty colour-insensitive to not see the difference between the D and the H when they're right next to each other, but when they aren't - when you've only got the one - everyone would still just see an H as a *white* diamond, no hesitation. It's not going to be "creamy" or "off-white" or anything like that!

**Long story short - any would be a pretty stone. At this point you can just pick by price!**

If you really want to nitpick, they'll have different personalities IRL: the D has a shallower pav and super high crown, that combo makes for a stone that can show more coloured light in a variety of lighting types than other proportions, at the expense of some white light return and some "bright white dot effect" (hold the stone in the dimness under a desk for example and it literally looks like a bright white dot). The H is a nice almost-60/60 (60 table and 60 depth), it'll be a very bright stone, more white light return across a variety of lighting types compared to the D. The F has shorter LGF (thicker arrowshafts), these larger facets permit bigger, bolder flashes of light, vs. the quicker sizzle and spark the smaller facets of the D and H throw off. None is objectively "better" than any other (unless high optical symmetry is a prioirity for you, in which case the D is out)

 

[Dreamer_D]

My 2c -

Skip the VVS - no point in paying for clarity you will never be able to appreciate.

I confess I sometimes don't know what to make of JA's gemologist reviews, sometimes they're so vague and sometimes they contradict my personal experience.

Of the remaining three you'd have to be pretty colour-insensitive to not see the difference between the D and the H when they're right next to each other, but when they aren't - when you've only got the one - everyone would still just see an H as a *white* diamond, no hesitation. It's not going to be "creamy" or "off-white" or anything like that!

**Long story short - any would be a pretty stone. At this point you can just pick by price!**

If you really want to nitpick, they'll have different personalities IRL: the D has a shallower pav and super high crown, that combo makes for a stone that can show more coloured light in a variety of lighting types than other proportions, at the expense of some white light return and some "bright white dot effect" (hold the stone in the dimness under a desk for example and it literally looks like a bright white dot). The H is a nice almost-60/60 (60 table and 60 depth), it'll be a very bright stone, more white light return across a variety of lighting types compared to the D. The F has shorter LGF (thicker arrowshafts), these larger facets permit bigger, bolder flashes of light, vs. the quicker sizzle and spark the smaller facets of the D and H throw off. None is objectively "better" than any other (unless high optical symmetry is a prioirity for you, in which case the D is out)

I agree with all of this and thank you Yssie for saving me the time typing it out.

 

[TitanCi]

Hhmm, I agree with you, I think I would have chosen one of the H's over the D. I like the looks of the black on the arrow shaft and the stars are nice and dark, which usually results in some nice fire. However, I'd have to consider what the gemologist is telling you because he is the only one able to see the stone right now. What exactly is he saying the benefit of the D is? Brighter? Better light performance? All of the IS look great so I don't think you could go wrong with any of them.

I agree with Christina and you. The H's look the best in terms of the IS images. The D looks the most unsymmetrical.
When I first read your post, I thought "they're steering him towards the D cuz it's most expensive!" but then I realized my situation with JA: I had two well performing G VS1's and the gemologist had nothing but good things to say about both. He said the only difference was size (1.42 vs 1.34) and if I wanted to spend more money to get the 1.42. But the gemologist never steered me that direction. In fact, all the JA associates I talked to said the 1.34 was their pick between the two (1.42 was an AGS ideal, 1.34 GIA XXX). So if they wanted to make an extra couple Gs off me, they would have steered me right toward the 1.42.

I think they're honest in their interpretations... it doesn't seem like he's "steering" you towards the D, rather just giving what he thinks is best to worse of the group. Keep in mind, he's talking about light performance, as he didn't mention symmetry in his analysis... Frankly, I like the H's then the F in terms of symmetry.

 

[jtmoney]

Thanks for the detailed info guys. I've a technical person so that is exactly the information that I needed to hear to make sense of how these stones will differ. I think I'm leaning towards a preference among the 4 options in the JA stones.

When comparing these to the WF ACA stones or the BGD signature am I better off just springing for these H&A diamonds instead? I've heard nothing but good things about these somewhat hand picked stones from reading this forum and am thinking maybe I should just bite the bullet and stop trying to nitpick with this selection and jump on board the higher end WF or BGD diamonds. They are after all cut to perfect proportions for brilliance it seems.

Thoughts, comments appreciated.

 

[yssie]

Thanks for the detailed info guys. I've a technical person so that is exactly the information that I needed to hear to make sense of how these stones will differ. I think I'm leaning towards a preference among the 4 options in the JA stones.

When comparing these to the WF ACA stones or the BGD signature am I better off just springing for these H&A diamonds instead? I've heard nothing but good things about these somewhat hand picked stones from reading this forum and am thinking maybe I should just bite the bullet and stop trying to nitpick with this selection and jump on board the higher end WF or BGD diamonds. They are after all cut to perfect proportions for brilliance it seems.

Thoughts, comments appreciated.

Depends on what you are looking for in your stone.
1. Do you think you want want to take advantage of upgrade (or other) policies, or will it reassure you to have them? WF/BGD/GOG/Infinity branded stones have generous upgrade/buyback/etc. policies.
2. Do you want to know that your stone has high optical symmetry and exhibits hearts and arrows patterns, whether or not you appreciate this symmetry IRL? If so you'll need to stick to H&A lines. JA has one as well, but you need to do more weeding.
3. Does one vendor have the setting you want? Getting stone and setting from different vendors is a hassle, with insurance on the loose stone, extra fees for setting outside stones, vendors pointing fingers at each other in case of something unfortunate... if you can best to keep it all in the family.

Strictly in terms of light return/brilliance/whatever you want to call it - the benefits of high vs. low optical symmetry through a variety of lighting types are clear and visible, but that line evens out as you start comparing high vs. very high vs. super duper high optical symmetry.

 

[TitanCi]

Thanks for the detailed info guys. I've a technical person so that is exactly the information that I needed to hear to make sense of how these stones will differ. I think I'm leaning towards a preference among the 4 options in the JA stones.

When comparing these to the WF ACA stones or the BGD signature am I better off just springing for these H&A diamonds instead? I've heard nothing but good things about these somewhat hand picked stones from reading this forum and am thinking maybe I should just bite the bullet and stop trying to nitpick with this selection and jump on board the higher end WF or BGD diamonds. They are after all cut to perfect proportions for brilliance it seems.

Thoughts, comments appreciated.

Depends on what you are looking for in your stone.
1. Do you think you want want to take advantage of upgrade (or other) policies, or will it reassure you to have them? WF/BGD/GOG/Infinity branded stones have generous upgrade/buyback/etc. policies.
2. Do you want to know that your stone has high optical symmetry and exhibits hearts and arrows patterns, whether or not you appreciate this symmetry IRL? If so you'll need to stick to H&A lines. JA has one as well, but you need to do more weeding.
3. Does one vendor have the setting you want? Getting stone and setting from different vendors is a hassle, with insurance on the loose stone, extra fees for setting outside stones, vendors pointing fingers at each other in case of something unfortunate... if you can best to keep it all in the family.

Strictly in terms of light return/brilliance/whatever you want to call it - the benefits of high vs. low optical symmetry through a variety of lighting types are clear and visible, but that line evens out as you start comparing high vs. very high vs. super duper high optical symmetry.

Wow. Well put Yssie!

 

[jtmoney]

Thanks a lot for all the advice. Sorry to leave this thread hanging, here's an update on what happened.

So I took the advice to heart and really appreciated the detailed replies. I figured out in the end that BGD had the setting that I wanted so I decided to be a genius. I noticed that the diamonds on JA were dual listed on BGD, so I figured after the long weekend (since no one was around) I would release the hold at JA, buy them at BGD and get everything from one place. I was leaning towards the F stone listed above. Sounded like a good plan at the time.

Tuesday rolls around, and I release the hold on the JA diamonds. I figured even if someone scooped up one then all 4 couldn't go right? Yeeeah, so all of two hours of them coming back on the market, boom they were on hold and shortly thereafter unavailable.

So since I found the setting I liked with BGD, I started frantically looking through their database. Eventually I worked with their staff (Lesley and Jamie) to find one that I liked and no doubt it was above my price range. After a couple of days though they were pretty good about it and worked things down to make it fit my budget. I got a Brian Gavin Signature (1ct, G VS2) and a setting with band that includes their signature melee. The value in the end was pretty good and being a signature diamond gave me some comfort in my purchase.

Now I have to wait the longest 2 weeks of my life to see what it came out like! Thanks for all the help guys. Big shout at to Yssie, Cristina and everyone else for their feedback. Absolutely essential info in making my choice. for I'll post some pictures once it comes in.