shape
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Darkness in a cushion modified brilliant?

redbeard

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 13, 2015
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Hi guys. I'm buying a new engagement ring for my wife. It includes a cushion modified brilliant, but we've tried to select on which doesn't have that "crushed glass" look. Here's pics of the stone:

http://imgur.com/a/nUQrT

Here are the specs:

SHAPE: Cushion
COLOR: H
CLARITY: VS2
POLISH: Excellent
SYMMETRY: Excellent
FLUORESCENCE: None
L/W RATIO: 1.01

DEPTH %: 69.10
GIRDLE: Medium - Thick
TABLE %: 61.00
CULET: None
CERTIFICATE: GIA
CROWN %: 0.00
PAVILION %: 0.00

I'm curious about how dark the stone appears from the front. Is this a good or a bad thing? Is it just a trick of the lighting? I'm spending a LOT on this, so any advice you could offer is *very* much appreciated!

RB
 

redbeard

Rough_Rock
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Dec 13, 2015
Messages
21
Oh, and if there are any other bad things which stick out to you in the specs, please let me know. I've tried to read up on table/depth and it appears this stone is ok in that regard, but I could be wrong...it's a bit confusing.

Thanks!
 

redbeard

Rough_Rock
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Dec 13, 2015
Messages
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Sorry...I didn't realize imgur.com links wouldn't work here. Here are the pics:

diamong.jpg
screen_shot_2015-12-13_at_2.png
screen_shot_2015-12-13_at_2_0.png
screen_shot_2015-12-13_at_2_1.png
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Dec 17, 2008
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27,338
Have you seem the stone in person or just pictures?
 

redbeard

Rough_Rock
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Dec 13, 2015
Messages
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Thanks for your response. Just pictures. It's from jamesallen.com. We have 30 days to return it, but I am just curious why it would look that way, and when I get it in-hand what to look for.
 

redbeard

Rough_Rock
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Dec 13, 2015
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Btw, it's 3.03 carats, so not a insignificant purchase by any means :(. It's meant to be her forever ring ;-)
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Can you post the JA link to it? I would like to see it spinning. Were you able to request an aset image of it?

Edit...I found it on JA. IF you got an aset post it please. If you didnt get one I would request one. I dont think they
are doing them right now because of Xmas rush but I dont think I would buy a fancy cut stone without one.
 

redbeard

Rough_Rock
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Dec 13, 2015
Messages
21
You were right. They said the department is shut down until after the New Year and that no pre-existing ASET images exist for the stone. They put a GIA-certified gemologist on the phone with me and discussed the stone...he said he really felt the stone would perform well and that I have 30 days to return it. Do you think I'm making a mistake by moving forward?
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
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33,349
The black we often see in diamond pics, especially those taken head-on, is just a reflection of the black camera and lens.

The black is not in the diamond any more than a black camera appearing black in a mirror indicates anything is wrong with the mirror.
Both the mirror and the diamond are just obeying the laws of physics and optics by reflecting what's in front of them.

The most effective way to reduce black in diamond pics is rarely employed because it is so expensive ... a better lens.
Using the least-expensvie macro lenses results in more black reflecting in the diamond than the most-expensvie macro lenses.
Why?
Macro lenses with shorter focal lengths, like 50 mm, have to be almost kissing the diamond.
Lenses of longer focal length, like 180 or 200 mm, can be almost a foot away while still delivering the same enlargement.

A 200mm Nikon macro lens is $1800.
http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/200mm-micro.htm
... but a 40mm Nikon Macro lens is only $280.
http://kenrockwell.com/nikon/40mm-f28.htm

When the big black camera is further from the diamond less of it will be reflected by the diamond.

Here's another thing that I, as a photographer, do to reduce the amount of black that appears in my diamond pics.
I reduce how much of the black camera that the diamond can "see" by cutting a hole in a white sheet of styrofoam that fits tightly onto the lens.
Then the diamond "sees" only the lens, not the big black camera.

screen_shot_2015-12-13_at_3.png

screen_shot_2015-12-13_at_0.png
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
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27,338
Well, that stinks that you cant get an aset. You need a little contrast in a stone (IMO) and if it's a black reflection like Kenny says
then no big deal. In this case if I were you I would go ahead and and check it out in person.
 

redbeard

Rough_Rock
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Dec 13, 2015
Messages
21
Thanks to you both. The gemologist actually said the same thing...that the black was the camera reflection. Guess I'll take my chances and return it if we don't like it. In general, what tests should we put the stone through when it gets here?

Thanks guys!
 

ringo865

Ideal_Rock
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Feb 14, 2014
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Please post pics when you get it. It looks really pretty. Oh and large :angel:
 

Gypsy

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Aug 8, 2005
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In my experience (I've compared live stones to JA videos of the same) that type of darkness is going to be a high contrast zone, but the table should be bright most of the time.

It's a lovely stone.
 

redbeard

Rough_Rock
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Dec 13, 2015
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Thank you all! I will post pics when it's here. Probably won't make it until the first week of January.
 

redbeard

Rough_Rock
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Dec 13, 2015
Messages
21
Hi guys.

The ring is here! I'll post a picture of it after I post this message.

My wife seems to love it, but it is a little smaller than I expected at 3 carats. I guess that's what a modified cushion cut will get you. I'm not really worried about that though...

What I am worried about is that in certain light, especially inside, it doesn't have a lot of sparkle. In other light it does seem to sparkle a lot.

In what ways should I test the diamond to measure the quality of the cut? Should I use certain light? Are there certain steps I can take? I have 25 more days to return, so I want to do everything I can to put it through its paces!

Thanks!

img_4632.jpg
 

telephone89

Ideal_Rock
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Aug 29, 2014
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Looks great! What is the finger size? Cushions face up smaller than rounds, so will look smaller for the same ct size. But finger size can also influence how it looks.

For cut, you can buy an aset if you like. Make sure the diamond is clean. Look at it in all different types of light. Diamonds won't look 100% sparkly in every single light, even the best cut diamond will look dull sometimes.
 

redbeard

Rough_Rock
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Dec 13, 2015
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Another pic showing a little more sparkle...

img_4636.jpg
 

redbeard

Rough_Rock
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Dec 13, 2015
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Her ring size is 6.5. To buy an ASET, I'd have to send the ring in right? Is that safe?
 

LLJsmom

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I'm no expert. In some lighting my MRB doesn't seem to sparkle much either. But in most places it dos very well. I would seriously reconsider if this is the cut for you and your wife. Maybe consider a H&A cushion? GOG has those and I've seen some IRL and I love them, but I do love cushion shapes. I don't doubt that the stone is lovely for a modified, but just wondering if that is the sparkle pattern you want. I prefer the organized symmetry of precision cut MRB. it's great it available in cushion form.
 

telephone89

Ideal_Rock
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redbeard|1452022773|3971132 said:
Her ring size is 6.5. To buy an ASET, I'd have to send the ring in right? Is that safe?
No, you can buy one and use it at home. Do a quick google search and you'll find a few things.

You might also be interested in this thread [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/how-to-take-good-photos-of-your-diamonds.102989/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/how-to-take-good-photos-of-your-diamonds.102989/[/URL]
It discusses different lighting and how it interacts with the diamond - more so photography based, but you might still learn something.
 

urseberry

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Messages
516
redbeard|1452022109|3971116 said:
Hi guys.

What I am worried about is that in certain light, especially inside, it doesn't have a lot of sparkle. In other light it does seem to sparkle a lot.

Totally normal. Have you seen other diamonds that you are comparing this one to? Diamonds behave differently in different lighting conditions. In diffused lighting, such as you often see indoors, you are looking for overall brightness and a nice looking pattern, but there won't be a lot of dispersion or scintillation (the more precise terms for sparkle). For sparkle, you need point light sources: underneath a leafy tree on a sunny day, or the high overhead lights at warehouse stores like Home Depot or Costco, or the specialized lighting in a jewelry store.

For an excellent education on how diamonds behave in different lighting conditions, check out Good Old Gold's videos. You can find them on YouTube under DiamondInfoMan or linked from their business web page.
 

redbeard

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 13, 2015
Messages
21
I would seriously reconsider if this is the cut for you and your wife. Maybe consider a H&A cushion?

Out of curiosity, why do you say you think it's not for us? Because I'm questioning the sparkle?
 

Michael_E

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
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Nov 19, 2003
Messages
1,290
redbeard|1452022109|3971116 said:
What I am worried about is that in certain light, especially inside, it doesn't have a lot of sparkle. In other light it does seem to sparkle a lot.

Sparkle, (or scintillation), is caused by the type of lighting environment as well as the contrast caused by the cut of the stone AND the lighting environment. If you're in an evenly lit room with diffuse lighting, or outside on a cloudy day, there is nothing in the environment to reflect that will cause enough contrast for your eyes to register the reflected light as "sparkle" and the stone will look kind of "dead". If you're standing outside on that cloudy day and walk under a leafless tree, you will see a lot more sparkle as well as a lot more fire, because of the strong contrast between the dark limbs and the bright areas in between them.
If you really want to see sparkle, and still have that Christmas tree up, go stand next to the Christmas tree. Lots of little bright lights in a darker background will make nearly any diamond look like an explosion. Most of the time people complain about lack of sparkle it's because their lighting doesn't allow it. Remember, a diamond is nothing more than a very fancy mirror and can only reflect what is shining on it.
 

redbeard

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 13, 2015
Messages
21
telephone89|1452023723|3971149 said:
redbeard|1452022773|3971132 said:
Her ring size is 6.5. To buy an ASET, I'd have to send the ring in right? Is that safe?
No, you can buy one and use it at home. Do a quick google search and you'll find a few things.

You might also be interested in this thread [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/how-to-take-good-photos-of-your-diamonds.102989/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/how-to-take-good-photos-of-your-diamonds.102989/[/URL]
It discusses different lighting and how it interacts with the diamond - more so photography based, but you might still learn something.

Ah, ok, I didn't realize that. Would this one (http://ideal-scope.com/product/aset-scope-for-fancy-shapes-cuts/) be a good choice? If so I'll order tonight.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,225
redbeard|1452025184|3971167 said:
telephone89|1452023723|3971149 said:
redbeard|1452022773|3971132 said:
Her ring size is 6.5. To buy an ASET, I'd have to send the ring in right? Is that safe?
No, you can buy one and use it at home. Do a quick google search and you'll find a few things.

You might also be interested in this thread [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/how-to-take-good-photos-of-your-diamonds.102989/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/how-to-take-good-photos-of-your-diamonds.102989/[/URL]
It discusses different lighting and how it interacts with the diamond - more so photography based, but you might still learn something.

Ah, ok, I didn't realize that. Would this one (http://ideal-scope.com/product/aset-scope-for-fancy-shapes-cuts/) be a good choice? If so I'll order tonight.


Yes, I own that set up. Easy to use and very helpful.
 

redbeard

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 13, 2015
Messages
21
Thanks Gypsy. Before I buy....I'm guessing the stone has to be removed from the ring to use, right? I'd be very hesitant to do that...
 

urseberry

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Messages
516
No, you can use the ASET on a mounted stone. You'll hold it up directly to the scope and won't need the tweezers. Just try to line up the table with the edge of the scope. I believe there are instructions printed on the packaging.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,225
urseberry|1452062383|3971525 said:
No, you can use the ASET on a mounted stone. You'll hold it up directly to the scope and won't need the tweezers. Just try to line up the table with the edge of the scope. I believe there are instructions printed on the packaging.
Yup. The light box and tweezers can help with that.

No need to unmount as long as you can see light through the culet.
 

Serg

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 21, 2002
Messages
2,636
redbeard|1450045251|3961014 said:
I'll call them right now.

Just to eliminate any doubt, here's the link: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/3.03-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-sku-597747


Dark zones are visible in quite big angle range during tilting. Most probably both eyes will see darkness in same time if you observe the diamond from short distance. in such case it significantly reduces brightness and brilliancy .The phenomena is similar to nail head in round diamond or round diamonds with very shallow pavilion.

ASET image does not give enough information for this diamond, you need check it in naked eye.
 
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