Dancing Fire -- you were wrong about next terror act

[Tekate]

I believe Karl has a right to speak his mind freely as this is hangout. As to if it would influence me on buying an Octavia? not sure. Kenny's pix are the first reason why I started coming back to Pricescope in 13 and DF's ring..hmmmmm... just gorgeous too... if only I had all the money DF thinks I have!

peace.

Not sure why only Karl's remark is considered inappropriate. The thread began odd and went on from there.

Glad the two police officers were there. There would have been no protection if the majority whip weren't there with his guards. The field is in a neighborhood, and there were men, women and children all around. One of the congressmen had his little son with him.

No telling how many lives were saved by the brave officers.

I was proud to hear that the charity game will be played tomorrow. Sure it won't last, but it was nice to see the congress members united.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Of course they should be allowed to speak freely.

Buyers are also allowed to patronize, or not, businesses based on anything they want.
IMO Karl's work is so fine that I don't care what his politics are.
It doesn't make my Octavia any less sparkly.

12 years of reading his posts has proven to me that Karl is also a wonderful person, a better person than I'll ever be.
Frankly, I admire him for speaking up like he has lately.
It says he's a man of principles, rather than a servant of money.

Kenny, I cannot tell you how much I respect you for posting this. It's a sad world when people hate others because of political beliefs and disregard the character of the person overall. I hate these threads and rarely read them, but I was curious as to what this thread was about. I'd buy an Octavia any day, and I'd happily buy your colored diamonds, too, if you were selling. Now to find my money tree, and I'll be right on it! Consider yourself virtually {{{hugged}}}.

Now back to happy places like RT and SMTB......

 

[AnnaH]

Kate, thanks for your post.

The troubled, and sometimes evil, people won't solve our problems, obviously. It is the well-meaning people on the right and left who must find a way to work together. HO, too often, is a tiny example of how personal attacks, name calling, and refusal to seek understanding dangerously divides our wonderful country.

The civility and unity in Washington is fleeting, no doubt, but if they manage to tone it down, that's a start. Do you think we should hold our breath?

Yes Anna you are right. It seems one of the Congressmen had his own security team also. I can easily say and admit that the rhetoric on BOTH sides of the aisle is tooooo loud, mean and hateful. We need to stop. This 'guy' who shot up the park (near my SIL's btw, they heard the noise etc and saw a dog running away from he park ((they are dog people)))

This was a guy who was angry about all he thought he wasn't getting, rich paying less taxes, differences between the classes growing.. but he was mentally ill, angry, and evil. Many people are this way but don't kill. I'm not going to address the gun problem because to me, there is no use, as the gun lobby (one of the culprits) and the NRA (big big culprits) turn the rhetoric up way too loudly. And yes, Bernie has a bit of a cross to bear himself, he's too loud and strident at times. We just need to talk to each other not at each other.

My .02

Peace.

 

[ABKIS]

Honestly. I'm disgusted. How about simply saying "another wack job". Since when was political affiliations taken in to account so heavily as they are now? As if republicans are so saintly. So beyond anything immoral and unjust because, you know..they are republican. There are good people across the board (republican, democrat, liberal) and there are shitty people across those same boards.

I do not personally know Karl so I have no basis other than what's written on this board. Should I make the assumption that he's a great, all around compassionate person when that's the thought that came to mind?

Speak your mind, by all means. Don't take others in to account in any way. Screw being civil and considerate of your fellow man, let's just all have diarrhea of the mouth. I truly wish some people could spend a day in the lives of a "brown" person. Perhaps they'd learn to shut the f*ck up and stop making such blanket statements about an entire group of people.

Clearly I need to go back to reading RT and SMTB where people have a little more common decency. And that's me just speaking my mind. I hope the conservatives can stand behind my ability to do so.

thank you and good night.

 

[Matata]

I do not personally know Karl so I have no basis other than what's written on this board. Should I make the assumption that he's a great, all around compassionate person when that's the thought that came to mind?

This is a good point. Not everyone comes here often enough for long enough to get to know any particular poster. Those of us who have been here a long time know Karl through the consistency of his posts over many years. But people who visit irregularly will not capture the true flavor of an individual. This is a risk that any one of us takes when we express ourselves on a forum and there is an added layer when a vendor does so. Each of us chooses the path we take and must walk with the consequences.

And for the record, while they may be fairly quiet now, RT and SMTB are the forums where, historically, the most major drama has unfolded. It may be HO's time for drama now, but what comes around goes around.

 

[Tekate]

No holding breath.. but wishing!

Kate, thanks for your post.

The troubled, and sometimes evil, people won't solve our problems, obviously. It is the well-meaning people on the right and left who must find a way to work together. HO, too often, is a tiny example of how personal attacks, name calling, and refusal to seek understanding dangerously divides our wonderful country.

The civility and unity in Washington is fleeting, no doubt, but if they manage to tone it down, that's a start. Do you think we should hold our breath?

 

[monarch64]

Our p.o.s. killer was an evil abusive a-hole over and above his political affiliation. Shocking, right?!
https://storify.com/RepresentPledge/the-va-shooter-s-first-victim-was-his

"According to this Mother Jones report, gender appears to have a direct correlation to whether someone becomes a killer. They find that men are responsible for 90% of all murders:"

Can we all just finally admit that religion and politics are merely symptoms of the disease? Disease being gender, that is. Now there's a sweeping generalization/blanket statement that seems to actually be accurate.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Speaking as a professional, who is a PS vet- I don't think it's a smart move to post polarizing political statements.
We've all seen the deterioration of decent dialog in our society. I've taken to cherishing our business because there's simply no place to allow for speaking in ways that insult people purposely.
When someone calls for a diamond, self-preservation would prevent me from discussing politics. Which lead me to remember that old saying- politics and religion don't belong in civil discourse.
Having said that, I have found that unlike Facebook, where comments get 1000% out of hand pretty much immediately, here on PS, people of opposing viewpoints have been able to cling to civility- and I appreciate that greatly.
Speaking as a partner of Karl's, I'm honestly disgusted. His comment was out of line from a civility standpoint and completely irresponsible as a trade member.

This is a good point. Not everyone comes here often enough for long enough to get to know any particular poster. Those of us who have been here a long time know Karl through the consistency of his posts over many years. But people who visit irregularly will not capture the true flavor of an individual. This is a risk that any one of us takes when we express ourselves on a forum and there is an added layer when a vendor does so. Each of us chooses the path we take and must walk with the consequences.

And for the record, while they may be fairly quiet now, RT and SMTB are the forums where, historically, the most major drama has unfolded. It may be HO's time for drama now, but what comes around goes around.

This- amazing how Kenny is so willing to stand up for Karl's right to voice a contrary opinion after repeatedly and viciously attacking me for holding different beliefs than he does about diamonds.

 

[cmd2014]

I have to admit that the news coverage of this has troubled me a bit. Lots of focus on the politicians (sadly, it looks like Steve Scalise's injuries are worse than they initially appeared), but literally no mention of how any of the police/security people harmed in the line of duty are doing.

I was also disappointed to see Republican representatives on the news today talking about how their response to this is going to be to make sure that they are carrying weapons and lobbying to be able to take them into places where they have traditionally been banned (like into Senate meetings). I had hoped that the focus maybe would have shifted to making sure that those who cannot be trusted to responsibly have weapons aren't able to have easy access to them in addition to increasing access to mental health care to those who need it, rather than falling back on the sad, tired, wanna-be macho party lines about needing more guns, rather than less, that are only likely to promote more violence.

 

[AnnaH]

Again, what Karl posted is not the only incendiary comment. The double standard is glaring.

Often disagree with Kenny, but when he's right, he's right.

Another vendor posted a couple of things that were far more offensive (disgusting name calling), but no one threatened her livelihood.

 

[cmd2014]

Again, what Karl posted is not the only incendiary comment. The double standard is glaring.

Often disagree with Kenny, but when he's right, he's right.

Another vendor posted a couple of things that were far more offensive (disgusting name calling), but no one threatened her livelihood.

I haven't seen anyone threaten anyone's livelihood. I have seen people suggest that it might be worth giving some thought to whether one might be offending potential customers by posting controversial views in a forum that one's customers frequent. It's not bad feedback, particularly as many here clearly value Karl and his work, and would hate to see that be tarnished by bad feelings about what appears to have been an off-the-cuff remark.

Professional relationships often require us to be somewhat circumspect in our expressed views due to the potential that our personal views might harm our professional relationships.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Hi Anna-
I have indeed seen some pretty incendiary postings in HO- but none from tradespeople other than Karl.
I did not recall seeing the other posting- and I'm not involved professionally with any ladies that post here.
If I was associated with the person you have in mind, and the person posted something that insults a broad swath of people from either left OR right, I'd distance myself from it. I agree that name calling is never productive, no matter who does it. In terms of threatening someone's livelihood, it's entirely possible that the person you're referring to is suffering loss of sales due to name calling....

eta- come to think of it we do have an associate who is female. and does post here- Jen. I am beyond confident she never insulted anyone.

 

[AnnaH]

Rock, it happened, but I'm not going to name her to prove my point.

cm, stating you know where NOT to spend your money sounds like a threat.

 

[Rockdiamond]

no need to name names Anna- I totally believe you. If the person is associated with our company, I'd like to know about it.
About "threats", real or imagined: in a way, if folks discuss the fact that a companies public posture affect their buying habits, it seems like they are doing the seller a favor.
For sure there are many who could not care less about anything other than a given product. But in the world we're currently living in, I do believe many consumers will base buying decisions on political statements or actions that were taken by a company. It's just common sense - avoiding that minefield is smart in terms of business.
Part of my point is that I've realized it's also smart in other areas of life.

 

[Calliecake]

Some of this craziness could possibly be minimized if both sides of the political aisle worked together and compromised. They can come together for a baseball game, it's seems to me they should be able to come together for what is best for the country.

The man who did this obviously had mental health issues that were not being addressed. Just another reason healthcare is such an important issue in our country and needs to be handled in such a way that EVERYONE benefits from it and has access to proper healthcare. It only makes sense that someone who has serious mental health issues may be on Medicaid. If you aren't mental healthy it may be extremely difficult to hold down a job. This falls into the bucket of helping those that truly need help.

As far as the tradesperson giving their political views, it would seem to me that it's common sense not to realize there are consequences for your actions. If your views are different from 80% of the people posting its not too difficult to figure out that voicing your opinions might affect your business financially. No one is saying Karl can't voice his opinions. I personally don't feel it's the smart thing to do if the majority of the people posting don't feel the same way.

In previous years I would not be swayed by a vendor having an opposing view. This election was completely different in my opinion.

 

[telephone89]

cm, stating you know where NOT to spend your money sounds like a threat.

Uh, its not a threat, its a reality. When walmart does something shady and people say they are going to stop shopping at walmart, they aren't threatening anyone. They are choosing to spend their money elsewhere; with a company who values similar things.

 

[OreoRosies86]

The dramatics are in full swing again I see

 

[Calliecake]

Yes Elliott they are. How on earth is choosing to spend your money with another company threatening anyone?

 

[LLJsmom]

Uh, its not a threat, its a reality. When walmart does something shady and people say they are going to stop shopping at walmart, they aren't threatening anyone. They are choosing to spend their money elsewhere; with a company who values similar things.

OMG. I have to say that this is not a threat. It's just a fact. People will have their opinions and can make financial decisions based on many things. The vendor's opinions may affect one person and may not affect another. People have a right to choose either. THat is a fact. No one is threatening anyone. No one is asking Karl to change his opinion. He is entitled to have one and express it. In fact, maybe some people will be more likely to buy from him based on his opinions. Who can tell? It can go either way. It's just a matter of the client's having more information about their potential vendor.

 

[katharath]

Am I missing something? Both sides of the aisle have a long, well known history of choosing not to support businesses that don't share their beliefs and values.

Off the top of my head, within the last year or so alone, conservatives have "banned" Target, Starbucks, and Star Wars. The left refuses to support Trump companies and Hobby Lobby. Etc etc etc.

It's not "threatening", it's making a personal choice, and just as vendors can choose to say whatever they want, consumers can choose not to do business with them based on what they say.

It's just how it is. I don't understand people who don't understand this?

 

[OreoRosies86]

Am I missing something? Both sides of the aisle have a long, well known history of choosing not to support businesses that don't share their beliefs and values.

Off the top of my head, within the last year or so alone, conservatives have "banned" Target, Starbucks, and Star Wars. The left refuses to support Trump companies and Hobby Lobby. Etc etc etc.

It's not "threatening", it's making a personal choice, and just as vendors can choose to say whatever they want, consumers can choose not to do business with them based on what they say.

It's just how it is. I don't understand people who don't understand this?

Yup! Plenty of whacked out liberals who have lots of whacked out choices regarding where they want to spend their whacked out money

 

[AnnaH]

Why focus on the word "threat" rather than the double standard? If you want to consider all the Karl posts a friendly reminder, do so. Doesn't change the fact that many here who agree with someone's politics are okay with their incendiary comments. Yet, if someone with a different political view says something polarizing, they are quick to complain. That's my point.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Although I strongly disagree with Karl making strong statements from the standpoint of business partner/associate- I also respect and like Karl a lot. I want his brand to succeed as much as anyone.
It is my commitment to the brand succeeding that prompted my taking the risk and speaking up.
As a tradesperson, it's a high risk to post in a discussion like this at all.
Given that DBL is advertising his creation here, I would have felt the need to make a comment if Karl was a left leaning person and the comment was broadly insulting to conservative minded folks.
AnnaH- I appreciate your presence. Agree or disagree, I enjoy reading your posts.
It's a new world- finding civil discourse on social media is incredibly difficult. The worst it gets here is Polyana compared to "the real internet world"
Even though PS surely has more people posting from the left side- the conservative leaning posters here seem to value the environment enough to stick around and talk about it.

 

[monarch64]

Holy smokes, can you say "PR disaster?" Rockdiamond and Stormy: I'm hella great at marketing, especially recovery. Call me.

 

[AGBF]

When I first learned about this shooting, I visited Pricescope and was surprised that no one had started a thread about the topic. No one had, however, and no one did for a long time. I went off-line and did not return for a while. When I did this thread was here and three pages long. I had already seen and taken in the entire event on my own and not been touched by any Pricescopers' views of the event. (Of course I had listened to the views of every other person in the world via television!)

Without the benefit of this thread, I had taken the shooting very seriously. When I opened this thread, I started to laugh at the takes on the whole mess that people here had posted. That is often the way threads on Pricescope run and I love them for it. Serious, caring people post irreverent things here. First I read Matata essentially telling Dancing Fire that it was a pity, for his theory of how the universe works, that "an Anglo" (as he was called by Representative Joe Barton from Texas) was the shooter. Then I enjoyed Elliot pointing out that men were the real culprits in all murders and terrorism.

From my point of view, tuning in so late to this thread, Karl's comment just seems like the usual off-th-cuff Pricescope comment. I would not have taken it seriously, knowing Karl as I do. Not in this thread which (as someone else pointed out) was nutty from the get-go. This was a very irreverent thread!

(I had been feeling very, very bad for the victims and been lauding the bravery of the police when left to my own, private devices. But I do not mind seeing that our country is crazy. It is.)

Deb

 

[OreoRosies86]

When I first learned about this shooting, I visited Pricescope and was surprised that no one had started a thread about the topic. No one had, however, and no one did for a long time. I went off-line and did not return for a while. When I did this thread was here and three pages long. I had already seen and taken in the entire event on my own and not been touched by any Pricescopers' views of the event. (Of course I had listened to the views of every other person in the world via television!)

Without the benefit of this thread, I had taken the shooting very seriously. When I opened this thread, I started to laugh at the takes on the whole mess that people here had posted. That is often the way threads on Pricescope run and I love them for it. Serious, caring people post irreverent things here. First I read Matata essentially telling Dancing Fire that it was a pity, for his theory of how the universe works, that "an Anglo" (as he was called by Representative Joe Barton from Texas) was the shooter. Then I enjoyed Elliot pointing out that men were the real culprits in all murders and terrorism.

From my point of view, tuning in so late to this thread, Karl's comment just seems like the usual off-th-cuff Pricescope comment. I would not have taken it seriously, knowing Karl as I do. Not in this thread which (as someone else pointed out) was nutty from the get-go. This was a very irreverent thread!

(I had been feeling very, very bad for the victims and been lauding the bravery of the police when left to my own, private devices. But I do not mind seeing that our country is crazy. It is.)

Deb

Huh? Where did I say any such thing...?

 

[AnnaH]

Rock, thanks for your kind comment.

You knew I wasn't referring to your colleague, but I'm glad I saw your edit so that I can put it on the record. Also, I believe you when you say you would disagree with offensive comments made toward conservatives.

There are a couple of liberals who post in HO who speak up when they think a fellow liberal goes too far. I appreciate when that happens. Maybe others don't like to take an unpopular position, but I think it's more likely that they either think it's acceptable to say anything to those on the right, or they are myopic, simply overlooking the rude comments coming from the left. Just my opinion. Hard to know as this isn't the kind of discussion that gets traction here.

The few posters in the minority, except for DF, come and go and then disappear altogether. Were the discourse routinely civil, I don't think that would happen. Little doubt that they will run me off sooner than later, but they will never get rid of DF. Just kidding; everybody loves DF.

Peace

 

[AGBF]

Huh? Where did I say any such thing...?

Sorry for misquoting you, Elliot. It was katharath who made that point about men. I'm up too late. I didn't quote her exactly either. But I believe I got the sense of what she meant. If I didn't, she can correct me, too!

Deb

 

[OreoRosies86]

Sorry for misquoting you, Elliot. It was katharath who made that point about men. I'm up too late. I didn't quote her exactly either. But I believe I got the sense of what she meant. If I didn't she can correct me, too!

Deb

Ah, gotcha. All good!

 

[LLJsmom]

Why focus on the word "threat" rather than the double standard? If you want to consider all the Karl posts a friendly reminder, do so. Doesn't change the fact that many here who agree with someone's politics are okay with their incendiary comments. Yet, if someone with a different political view says something polarizing, they are quick to complain. That's my point.

In your response per below:
Another vendor posted a couple of things that were far more offensive (disgusting name calling), but no one threatened her livelihood.

I interpreted that to imply that those who stated that their buying decisions could be affected by a vendor's opinion was saying that to threaten his livelihood. That sounds accusatory to me. Even if you had no intention to accuse anyone, I perceived it as such. Thus I felt I had to explain that in stating my buying decision could be affected by my opinion about the vendor regarding an unrelated issue was not me threatening the vendor with taking away my business. That is why I focused on the word "threat".

I am allowed to state my opinion as much as anyone else and if you take that as "complaining", feel free. I do not think that I am, and will continues to do so. And if I agree with others, I will state that too.