Crushed Ice Cushions...BAD???

[Doc_1]

Garry with all due respect you are going around my question and not answering it.
Let me rephrase:

A gorgeous looking crushed ice diamond does not have to be red/blue on ASET it could be GREEN as the stone posted by RD does it ?

This is a simple question that does not require more than a straight answer that i did not see furnished yet.

Because you do not know how to read and think.

Do not under estimate what i know....it is a mistake you are making!
You are choosing to evade my question though because you have no answer to it but that is your choice.

 

[Doc_1]

And here is the video used on a Poll last year:
http://www.octonus.com/oct/projects/foxymovies/MSS_9_diamonds_Daylight+LED.phtml

Note the worst zone in the crushed ice cushion (radiant like) in the lower left is where the reddish and blueish zones are in the ASET image. The point is that to give a uniform crushed ice the more green in the ASET - the better.

Garry
If you are saying the more green on a radiant crushed ice the better it is why not simply say to RD........ YES you made a powerful point by saying not to rely much on ASET and it could be misleading in judging what could be a gorgeous stone?

 

[stone-cold11]

Ya, I am not under estimating your knowledge, I am over-estimating it. If you have the knowledge, the question you have been asking has been answered several times.

 

[Doc_1]

Ya, I am not under estimating your knowledge, I am over-estimating it. If you have the knowledge, the question you have been asking has been answered several times.

Simply you have no answer and your case of relying on ASET is destroyed with RD's example and you do not want to admit, that is fine.
Keep the insults coming it will not change any thing.
The bottom line is:
A gorgeous diamond looked green on ASET and not much of blue and red.
if some one was weeding out stones based on ASET and did not see the diamond will miss this gorgeous one.
this is what i learned today. and that is a great lesson!

 

[Rockdiamond]

Doc
A few posts up, Garry has said that more green is good for uniform crushed ice
I have also missed things written in the past
No biggie
Also true that the bar seems to be moving when it comes to aset interpretation

 

[Doc_1]

Doc
A few posts up, Garry has said that more green is good for uniform crushed ice
I have also missed things written in the past
No biggie
Also true that the bar seems to be moving when it comes to aset interpretation

I addressed that two posts up thank you RD.
I am interested in seeing the diamonds you will post, it will be exciting if the ASET turned out to more red/blue than green.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Yes Doc,
We were posting at the same time

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Garry or Storm,

Could you please post a simulated image of that radiant would look like when there is no side lighting available. Please post both a modified ASET and an office lighting shot. I have tried to change the lighting myself but I'm not sure if I did it correctly so I'm not going to post it.

I would also like to point out that if a stone gathers light from higher angles it is also possible that same areas can also gather light from lower angles. The higher angle light is generally of higher intensity so it takea priority. However if a stone only gathers light from lower angles than remove those sources and you have no light return to the viewer in those areas.

Thanks,
CCL

 

[diagem]

Ya, I am not under estimating your knowledge, I am over-estimating it. If you have the knowledge, the question you have been asking has been answered several t imes.

Simply you have no answer and your case of relying on ASET is destroyed with RD's example and you do not want to admit, that is fine.
Keep the insults coming it will not change any thing.
The bottom line is:
A gorgeous diamond looked green on ASET and not much of blue and red.
if some one was weeding out stones based on ASET and did not see the diamond will miss this gorgeous one.
this is what i learned today. and that is a great lesson!

Doc_1, you are mixing your personal gorgeous with scientific Aset results. One has nothing to do with the other.
Gorgeous Diamonds can also have minimal light return and be highly reflective in certain lighting environments.
Its a matter of individual taste.

As you make it sound..., all Aset green dominated Diamond cuts are (automatically) gorgeous, I say some definitely are but must be judged case by case.

Diamonds which possess highly desirable Aset results have better chances to be bright (if that what fancies you)..., especially when Internet shopping. Its a rejection tool remember Garry's Caree example.

 

[Doc_1]

Ya, I am not under estimating your knowledge, I am over-estimating it. If you have the knowledge, the question you have been asking has been answered several t imes.

Simply you have no answer and your case of relying on ASET is destroyed with RD's example and you do not want to admit, that is fine.
Keep the insults coming it will not change any thing.
The bottom line is:
A gorgeous diamond looked green on ASET and not much of blue and red.
if some one was weeding out stones based on ASET and did not see the diamond will miss this gorgeous one.
this is what i learned today. and that is a great lesson!

Doc_1, you are mixing your personal gorgeous with scientific Aset results. One has nothing to do with the other.
Gorgeous Diamonds can also have minimal light return and be highly reflective in certain lighting environments.
Its a matter of individual taste.

As you make it sound..., all Aset green dominated Diamond cuts are (automatically) gorgeous, I say some definitely are but must be judged case by case.

Diamonds which possess highly desirable Aset results have better chances to be bright (if that what fancies you)..., especially when Internet shopping. Its a rejection tool remember Garry's Caree example.

I am describing what my eyes are seeing in the video, simple.
It is a gorgeous stone. at least to my eyes.
It had all the exposures when he was turning it in all directions in the video, and was supported with the simulation video. Subjective ? yes...who said when any one looks at a diamond and taken by light performance is objective...i never said that. but the OBJECTIVE is the green on ASET and the lack of red and blue did not harm the performance of this crushed ice cut which is the core of the debate, Also the simulation video Garry put is OBJECTIVE, i advice you to see it.
That tells me when I am in the market for a crushed ice look i should not weigh much on the ASET. I never said throw it out of the window.

 

[diagem]

Ya, I am not under estimating your knowledge, I am over-estimating it. If you have the knowledge, the question you have been asking has been answered several t imes.

Simply you have no answer and your case of relying on ASET is destroyed with RD's example and you do not want to admit, that is fine.
Keep the insults coming it will not change any thing.
The bottom line is:
A gorgeous diamond looked green on ASET and not much of blue and red.
if some one was weeding out stones based on ASET and did not see the diamond will miss this gorgeous one.
this is what i learned today. and that is a great lesson!

Doc_1, you are mixing your personal gorgeous with scientific Aset results. One has nothing to do with the other.
Gorgeous Diamonds can also have minimal light return and be highly reflective in certain lighting environments.
Its a matter of individual taste.

As you make it sound..., all Aset green dominated Diamond cuts are (automatically) gorgeous, I say some definitely are but must be judged case by case.

Diamonds which possess highly desirable Aset results have better chances to be bright (if that what fancies you)..., especially when Internet shopping. Its a rejection tool remember Garry's Caree example.

I am describing what my eyes are seeing in the video, simple.
It is a gorgeous stone. at least to my eyes.
It had all the exposures when he was turning it in all directions in the video, and was supported with the simulation video. Subjective ? yes...who said when any one looks at a diamond and taken by light performance is objective...i never said that. but the OBJECTIVE is the green on ASET and the lack of red and blue did not harm the performance of this crushed ice cut which is the core of the debate.
That tells me when I am in the market for a crushed ice look i should not weigh much on the ASET. I never said throw it out of the window.

Doc..., no need to scream, I hear you loud and clear.
As long as its your personal opinion..., its great!
When you say "... but the OBJECTIVE is the green on ASET and the lack of red and blue did not harm the performance of this crushed ice cut which is the core of the debate.", what performance are you talking about?

 

[Karl_K]

Garry or Storm,

Could you please post a simulated image of that radiant would look like when there is no side lighting available.
Thanks,
CCL

This will also show what ASET actually does.
It combines these 4 images into one and color codes them
Red zone Only


Green Zone only


Blue zone only


Leakage only


edited to add the 4th image

 

[Doc_1]

Ya, I am not under estimating your knowledge, I am over-estimating it. If you have the knowledge, the question you have been asking has been answered several t imes.

Simply you have no answer and your case of relying on ASET is destroyed with RD's example and you do not want to admit, that is fine.
Keep the insults coming it will not change any thing.
The bottom line is:
A gorgeous diamond looked green on ASET and not much of blue and red.
if some one was weeding out stones based on ASET and did not see the diamond will miss this gorgeous one.
this is what i learned today. and that is a great lesson!

Doc_1, you are mixing your personal gorgeous with scientific Aset results. One has nothing to do with the other.
Gorgeous Diamonds can also have minimal light return and be highly reflective in certain lighting environments.
Its a matter of individual taste.

As you make it sound..., all Aset green dominated Diamond cuts are (automatically) gorgeous, I say some definitely are but must be judged case by case.

Diamonds which possess highly desirable Aset results have better chances to be bright (if that what fancies you)..., especially when Internet shopping. Its a rejection tool remember Garry's Caree example.

I am describing what my eyes are seeing in the video, simple.
It is a gorgeous stone. at least to my eyes.
It had all the exposures when he was turning it in all directions in the video, and was supported with the simulation video. Subjective ? yes...who said when any one looks at a diamond and taken by light performance is objective...i never said that. but the OBJECTIVE is the green on ASET and the lack of red and blue did not harm the performance of this crushed ice cut which is the core of the debate.
That tells me when I am in the market for a crushed ice look i should not weigh much on the ASET. I never said throw it out of the window.

Doc..., no need to scream, I hear you loud and clear.
As long as its your personal opinion..., its great!
When you say "... but the OBJECTIVE is the green on ASET and the lack of red and blue did not harm the performance of this crushed ice cut which is the core of the debate.", what performance are you talking about?

I am trying to high light what you do not want to see.
i edited my post in adding the simulation video Garry posted and that is OBJECTIVE.

 

[diagem]

I am trying to high light what you do not want to see.
i edited my post in adding the simulation video Garry posted and that is OBJECTIVE.

 

[Doc_1]

Doc..., no need to scream, .

 

[diagem]

Doc..., no need to scream, I hear you loud and clear.

Based on my experience when you cap on chats = speaking louder!! In that case, I said I can hear you .

What about high lighting what 'I' dont want to see?? I dont believe you and I have ever had any communication prior to these words?

What dont I want to see?

 

[Doc_1]

Doc..., no need to scream, I hear you loud and clear.

Based on my experience when you cap on chats = speaking louder!! In that case, I said I can hear you .

What about high lighting what 'I' dont want to see?? I dont believe you and I have ever had any communication prior to these words?

What dont I want to see?

You jumped in claiming it is pure subjective not seeing the objectives i posted in the same post

 

[Rockdiamond]

Ya, I am not under estimating your knowledge, I am over-estimating it. If you have the knowledge, the question you have been asking has been answered several t imes.

Simply you have no answer and your case of relying on ASET is destroyed with RD's example and you do not want to admit, that is fine.
Keep the insults coming it will not change any thing.
The bottom line is:
A gorgeous diamond looked green on ASET and not much of blue and red.
if some one was weeding out stones based on ASET and did not see the diamond will miss this gorgeous one.
this is what i learned today. and that is a great lesson!

Doc_1, you are mixing your personal gorgeous with scientific Aset results. One has nothing to do with the other.
Gorgeous Diamonds can also have minimal light return and be highly reflective in certain lighting environments.
Its a matter of individual taste.

As you make it sound..., all Aset green dominated Diamond cuts are (automatically) gorgeous, I say some definitely are but must be judged case by case.

Diamonds which possess highly desirable Aset results have better chances to be bright (if that what fancies you)..., especially when Internet shopping. Its a rejection tool remember Garry's Caree example.

Yoram- all due respect but this whole excersise has shown stones can be very bright with a lot of green in the aset
I firmly believe aset is NOT a valid rejection tool unless one wants a chunky diamond or one with patterns (such as hearts and arrows)
Aset is not an indicator of brightness or quality of cut
Ccl's request to provide images with lighting that does not exist in the real world is more of the same
What difference doesn't make how a diamond looks with no light coming from the side if such conditions never exist in real life?
My question, again: for the purposes of this discussion what difference does it make whrr the diamond is getting the light from?

 

[diagem]

Ya, I am not under estimating your knowledge, I am over-estimating it. If you have the knowledge, the question you have been asking has been answered several t imes.

Simply you have no answer and your case of relying on ASET is destroyed with RD's example and you do not want to admit, that is fine.
Keep the insults coming it will not change any thing.
The bottom line is:
A gorgeous diamond looked green on ASET and not much of blue and red.
if some one was weeding out stones based on ASET and did not see the diamond will miss this gorgeous one.
this is what i learned today. and that is a great lesson!

Doc_1, you are mixing your personal gorgeous with scientific Aset results. One has nothing to do with the other.
Gorgeous Diamonds can also have minimal light return and be highly reflective in certain lighting environments.
Its a matter of individual taste.

As you make it sound..., all Aset green dominated Diamond cuts are (automatically) gorgeous, I say some definitely are but must be judged case by case.

Diamonds which possess highly desirable Aset results have better chances to be bright (if that what fancies you)..., especially when Internet shopping. Its a rejection tool remember Garry's Caree example.

Yoram- all due respect but this whole excersise has shown stones can be very bright with a lot of green in the aset
I firmly believe aset is NOT a valid rejection tool unless one wants a chunky diamond or one with patterns (such as hearts and arrows)
Aset is not an indicator of brightness or quality of cut
Ccl's request to provide images with lighting that does not exist in the real world is more of the same
What difference doesn't make how a diamond looks with no light coming from the side if such conditions never exist in real life?
My question, again: for the purposes of this discussion what difference does it make whrr the diamond is getting the light from?

The intensity of the direct light (red) vs mostly indirect (green).

I believe even AGS says a combination of both (more red than green) with some blue (obstruction & light return depending on position) is needed to have a balance of light intensities..., good brightness doesnt mean only Aset red as it doesnt mean Aset green only.

David, you didnt compare your "beautiful" radiant to another radiant with a better combination of Aset reds , greens & blues. Only then can we be more objective when we are talking about "very" brightness..., it has nothing to do with gorgeous though. But if we are talking pure brightness..., red will be brighter than green as a matter of fact.

As far as quality of cut..., you are right, but the preferred Aset results will depend on quality of cut beyond what you call quality of cut in the above example.

 

[diagem]

Doc..., no need to scream, I hear you loud and clear.

Based on my experience when you cap on chats = speaking louder!! In that case, I said I can hear you .

What about high lighting what 'I' dont want to see?? I dont believe you and I have ever had any communication prior to these words?

What dont I want to see?

You jumped in claiming it is pure subjective not seeing the objectives i posted in the same post

Sorry for jumping in...

 

[Doc_1]

Doc..., no need to scream, I hear you loud and clear.

Based on my experience when you cap on chats = speaking louder!! In that case, I said I can hear you .

What about high lighting what 'I' dont want to see?? I dont believe you and I have ever had any communication prior to these words?

What dont I want to see?

You jumped in claiming it is pure subjective not seeing the objectives i posted in the same post

Sorry for jumping in...

I did not mind jumping in ....i minded seeing subjective and omitting objectives in my post.
Free to jump in any time. it is open forum

 

[Rockdiamond]

Yoram, the radiant I used needs no "quotation" around the word "beautiful"- it's an amazing example.

I'll find another radiant with more reds and blues to further make this a very complete discussion

 

[diagem]

Yoram, the radiant I used needs no "quotation" around the word "beautiful"- it's an amazing example.

I'll find another radiant with more reds and blues to further make this a very complete discussion

See, I never mixed beautiful with science!
But since I am also cutting Diamonds based on light return, Aset is a good tool for designing specific light performance appearances. There is no doubt the Aset tool gives a much deeper understanding into light behaviour in Diamonds...,

So I dont understand professionals who do not wish to know it better.

 

[Karl_K]

My question, again: for the purposes of this discussion what difference does it make whrr the diamond is getting the light from?

If you take a directional light meter and carry it with you all day for a month checking where the brightest light is coming from, it will be red zone ASET the majority of the time.
That is the theory it is based on.
Will it be true for everywhere you are that month? no but it will be for most of those places.

 

[Doc_1]

Yoram, the radiant I used needs no "quotation" around the word "beautiful"- it's an amazing example.

I'll find another radiant with more reds and blues to further make this a very complete discussion

See, I never mixed beautiful with science!
But since I am also cutting Diamonds based on light return, Aset is a good tool for designing specific light performance appearances. There is no doubt the Aset tool gives a much deeper understanding into light behaviour in Diamonds...,

So I dont understand professionals who do not wish to know it better.

You would if you cut beautiful diamonds and you won't if you cut ugly one....Beauty has to be in mind with science to cut gorgeous ones like RD's radiant.

 

[Doc_1]

My question, again: for the purposes of this discussion what difference does it make whrr the diamond is getting the light from?

If you take a directional light meter and carry it with you all day for a month checking where the brightest light is coming from, it will be red zone ASET the majority of the time.
That is the theory it is based on.
Will it be true for everywhere you are that month? no but it will be for most of those places.

Actually most of the time of the month would be diffused lighting and most of the places too.
That what another thing i learned from Jonathan's videos is to look at the diamond in diffused lighting since it will be the one you and others will see most of the time

 

[Karl_K]

My question, again: for the purposes of this discussion what difference does it make whrr the diamond is getting the light from?

If you take a directional light meter and carry it with you all day for a month checking where the brightest light is coming from, it will be red zone ASET the majority of the time.
That is the theory it is based on.
Will it be true for everywhere you are that month? no but it will be for most of those places.

Actually most of the time of the month would be diffused lighting and most of the places too.
That what another thing i learned from Jonathan's videos is to look at the diamond in diffused lighting since it will be the one you and others will see most of the time

Which will be coming from?
The ceiling maybe? red zone aset.....

 

[Doc_1]

My question, again: for the purposes of this discussion what difference does it make whrr the diamond is getting the light from?

If you take a directional light meter and carry it with you all day for a month checking where the brightest light is coming from, it will be red zone ASET the majority of the time.
That is the theory it is based on.
Will it be true for everywhere you are that month? no but it will be for most of those places.

Actually most of the time of the month would be diffused lighting and most of the places too.
That what another thing i learned from Jonathan's videos is to look at the diamond in diffused lighting since it will be the one you and others will see most of the time

Which will be coming from?
The ceiling maybe? red zone aset.....

Most offices are diffused lighting rather than directional.

 

[Karl_K]

Most offices are diffused lighting rather than directional.

The brightest light is coming from the ceiling diffused or not.
An easy test is walk around with a colored piece of paper and see for yourself where the brightest light is coming from.

 

[Doc_1]

Most offices are diffused lighting rather than directional.

The brightest light is coming from the ceiling diffused or not.
An easy test is walk around with a colored piece of paper and see for yourself where the brightest light is coming from.

Even if the source is the ceiling still mostly diffused light in offices where most would be most of the time.