Continuation of

[marvel]

Date: 5/30/2006 1:00:22 AM
Author: JPWRana

Date: 5/29/2006 8:39:52 PM
Author: ilovesparkles
http://toolhaus.org/cgi-bin/negs?User=global_bargain_hunters



This is a link with all thebad feedback that has been withdrawn that kcoursolle was talking about. I wouldn't buy from them if it were me. I would trust my fellow PSers 100% before these random people giving feedback on ebay.

Thank you Rock!! I will DEFINATELY not buy know from there...

The rock that I had in mind to buy was



ETA: the replies by the seller are pretty nasty too and he will admit nothing. Just an observation

THIS DIAMOND RING

So this ring is too good to be true then?

If they're asking 7k for the ring, then maybe that's what it's worth. If it's worth more, they would be selling it for more. That's the bottom line really. I can't make a judgement on the stone, but I wouldn't want to take a chance. Just my two cents.

Have you gone to look at any stones in 'real' life? It take a while to really understand all the gargen, but if you hang around here a while, you'll learn a lot. It's worth investing the time to find the right stone. You wouldn't buy the first car you saw, right? And would you buy it on e-bay? It's a significant dollar amont and you want to get a great stone.
Good luck!

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 5/30/2006 1:04:04 AM
Author: JPWRana

Date: 5/30/2006 12:04:05 AM
Author: kaleigh
You can check out the Pricescope vendors by clicking resources at the top of the page. I have bought from both www.whiteflash.com and www.goodoldgold.com I also highly recommend www.winkjones.com and www.jamesallen.com Have a look... We will be more than happy to help you. They all have an excellent reputation, and they do not sell on ebay. You can do a search on them by typing in their names in the search box. They are all awesome vendors and you can''t go wrong with any of them!! Really

THANK YOU KALEIGH!!! I will DEFINATELY look into these!!! Thank you everyone for your valuable input!!

This is my 1st thread and I do feel very welcome and well helped!!

Too bad there isn''t an A+ tab or option that I can give you guys

Nah no A+ needed just so happy we saved you from a bad ebay experience. Take your time, research and read the tutorials on here. They are very helpful. People will be happy to post stones for your consideration. We are all about helping our fellow consumer and want you to get the best cut stone for your money. So ask away tomorrow, you''ll get tons of help!!

 

[JulieN]

Date: 5/30/2006 1:21:34 AM
Author: JPWRana

Date: 5/29/2006 11:49:41 PM
Author: JulieN
Whiteflash

They are not ebay stores...they are physical stores (located near Long Island and Houston, respectively.) They sell online, but their business is not ONLY online.


On 'good deals.' You will get very well-cut stones at a good price, but they will not have $7K / 2 ct (aka 'frozen spit')

is 'good deals' an online diamond store?

No; /good deals/ is in quotation marks because people's defintions of a good deal varies. For some, it is a 2 ct for 7K, and it doesn't matter if the diamond doesn't sparkle. Or, it's getting a nice diamond without paying the mall store markup. And for others, it's getting top cut and custom-made settings and not paying for a Tiffany/Cartier/etc. branding.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 5/29/2006 7:11:29 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
We hear nightmare stories on here all the time about e-bay diamonds. We try to warn people not to fall for deals that appear too good to be true. I don''t know what a NGL cert is, but I could make one on my computer that would have about as much meaning. So take the advice you''ve been given. Nobody gives great diamonds away. Some have found diamonds difficult to return. Do not buy a $7000. diamond on ebay.

DS
NGL= No Good Lab !!!

i have a 24 pack roll of their cert in every bathroom.

 

[kcoursolle]

Reading the tutorials is a really good idea. This will help you will learn about cut quality and what makes a diamond really sparke and also help you decide what you are looking for.

Also, after reading the tutorials, we could help you more in picking a stone and a setting if you come up with a budget and a diamond shape. Is your girlfriend specifically interested in a princess cut stone? We can try to help you with stone choices and show you some that are really nice and give you feedback on stones that you find.

If your budget is 7k this can get you a killer diamond slightly over a carat with about $500-1200 left over for a setting depending on the diamond you choose. One carat is a very respectable size and a well cut diamond will look 100x better than a huge low quality diamond.

We are all very willing to help you, and it''s actually fun for us! Diamonds are a hobby for most of us and others are jewelry experts involved in the trade as cutters, store owners, buyers, etc. and we really enjoy helping people find lovely diamonds for their significant others. I''m not an expert, but I still enjoy diamonds and helping others find what they are looking for.

 

[Kim N]

Date: 5/30/2006 1:42:29 AM
Author: Dancing Fire
DS
NGL= No Good Lab !!!

i have a 24 pack roll of their cert in every bathroom.

LOL, DF!!

 

[jaz464]

There are lots of reasons why it is to your advantage to read the tutorials and learn about cut. A poorly cut diamond will not sparkle or have lots of fire and scintillation. It will look smaller than a well cut diamond (carat weight is not everything). In addition, as you go into the near colorless diamonds (G-J), a poorly cut diamond will appear more yellow. Also, well cut diamonds often hide inclusions better. This is why cut (not shape) is so important.

 

[JPWRana]

Date: 5/30/2006 1:54:13 AM
Author: kcoursolle
Reading the tutorials is a really good idea. This will help you will learn about cut quality and what makes a diamond really sparke and also help you decide what you are looking for.

Ok... I''ll read them.

Date: 5/30/2006 1:54:13 AM
Author: kcoursolle
Also, after reading the tutorials, we could help you more in picking a stone and a setting if you come up with a budget and a diamond shape. Is your girlfriend specifically interested in a princess cut stone? We can try to help you with stone choices and show you some that are really nice and give you feedback on stones that you find.

She wants it to be ATLEAST 1.5ct''s... her preferences are asscher or princess. In some of the websites that were given to me a few posts before, I noticed more exotic (is that the right word?) cuts... like this flanders cut... never heard of it before

Date: 5/30/2006 1:54:13 AM
Author: kcoursolle
If your budget is 7k this can get you a killer diamond slightly over a carat with about $500-1200 left over for a setting depending on the diamond you choose. One carat is a very respectable size and a well cut diamond will look 100x better than a huge low quality diamond.

My budget is no more than $9200... including tax (Los angeles is 8.25%), shipping, shipping insurance, the yellow ring itself (the wedding ring would be nice too if included), the diamond, and anything else that I''m missing. How likely is this for a diamond OVER 1.5?

Date: 5/30/2006 1:54:13 AM
Author: kcoursolle
We are all very willing to help you, and it''s actually fun for us! Diamonds are a hobby for most of us and others are jewelry experts involved in the trade as cutters, store owners, buyers, etc. and we really enjoy helping people find lovely diamonds for their significant others. I''m not an expert, but I still enjoy diamonds and helping others find what they are looking for.

Thanks kcoursolle! I really do appreciate the help!!! a lot!

 

[kcoursolle]

A couple more questions...

Do you know her preferences for color and clarity? Do you know whether she would rather have an elaborate setting and a smaller stone or a larger stone and a simple setting?

Also, asschers appear fairly small in size for their carat weight. Rounds, marquise, and pears appear the largest. Princess will appear smaller than a round, but bigger than an asscher. Because asschers appear small...this might influence your decision.

With $9200, I would suggest sinking the most into the diamond and getting a simple setting (inexpensive) that she could change later, unless she really wants a specific setting. You will be able to get close to the carat mark, but you would probably have to sacrafice to go down to a lower color or clarity. One thing you could easily sacrafice would be to go down to an SI that is eye-clean. They are much less expensive than a VS/VVS and many are eye clean.

 

[kcoursolle]

I forgot to add....

If you buy your diamond and setting from an internet vendor in another state other than CA, you won''t have to pay sales tax. Whiteflash, james allen, GOG and some others are all in other states. They also have a pricescope discount and an additional discount if you pay by bankwire. It''s not huge, but it helps. You have to ask for the discount though, so don''t forget!

 

[kcoursolle]

Here is a diamond from dirtcheapdiamonds signature series princess. Most of the signature series are pretty well cut. I am not a princess expert though, so you should ask for feedback from other on this stone. I just noticed it because it was easily in your price range and 1.51 carats! If pricescopers approve of the cut, you should call Jim at dirtcheapdiamonds and ask if the stone is "eye clean" or at least something that can be covered up with a prong or practically eye-clean because the clarity is SI2. You should also ask him for pictures of the diamond and an ideal-scope image. Hope this helps.

http://dirtcheapdiamonds.com/diamond_detail.cfm?did=10253440

 

[JPWRana]

Date: 5/30/2006 2:06:54 PM
Author: kcoursolle
A couple more questions...

Do you know her preferences for color and clarity? Do you know whether she would rather have an elaborate setting and a smaller stone or a larger stone and a simple setting?

She is willing to go down a little on color, because the yellow ring she prefers, it would "camoflauge?" well. She DEFINATELY prefers a simple setting, as i do too.


Also, asschers appear fairly small in size for their carat weight. Rounds, marquise, and pears appear the largest. Princess will appear smaller than a round, but bigger than an asscher. Because asschers appear small...this might influence your decision.

Date: 5/30/2006 2:06:54 PM
Author: kcoursolle
With $9200, I would suggest sinking the most into the diamond and getting a simple setting (inexpensive) that she could change later, unless she really wants a specific setting.

My thoughts exactly!!!

Date: 5/30/2006 2:06:54 PM
Author: kcoursolle
You will be able to get close to the carat mark, but you would probably have to sacrafice to go down to a lower color or clarity. One thing you could easily sacrafice would be to go down to an SI that is eye-clean. They are much less expensive than a VS/VVS and many are eye clean.

I was still thinking of the VS mark... I wonder how much color I can sacrifice for more clarity without it turning as yellow as these smileys

 

[JPWRana]

Date: 5/30/2006 2:16:38 PM
Author: kcoursolle
Here is a diamond from dirtcheapdiamonds signature series princess. Most of the signature series are pretty well cut. I am not a princess expert though, so you should ask for feedback from other on this stone. I just noticed it because it was easily in your price range and 1.51 carats! If pricescopers approve of the cut, you should call Jim at dirtcheapdiamonds and ask if the stone is ''eye clean'' or at least something that can be covered up with a prong or practically eye-clean because the clarity is SI2. You should also ask him for pictures of the diamond and an ideal-scope image. Hope this helps.


http://dirtcheapdiamonds.com/diamond_detail.cfm?did=10253440

Thanks Cut for your help!!! I am a bit inclined to try and stay away from the SI''s as much as I can... but depending on the picture, I think SI1 would be the most I''d go for... No offense though

 

[kcoursolle]

Out of anything, don''t sacracifce cut quality! You will understand when you read the tutorials about cut quality.

No offense taken, but before discounting SI''s entirely check out all of the gorgeous SI''s in the eye candy thread in the show me the rings section. In color, I would say you could safely go down to an H/I...and maaaaybe a J...depending on how color sensitive she is. Well cut round brilliant J''s face up white, but princesses are more sensitive. Some are more color sensitive than others, my personal limit is a well cut I, while others will say that G is the lowest they will go.

If you still want VS and at least an H...you will have to go down in size without sacraficing cut quality.

 

[JPWRana]

ok... I''ve been reading on the tutorials... but they have me confused...

What does TAble % and Depth % mean? what percentage should I look for for best sparkle?

 

[kcoursolle]

The depth percentage is how "deep" the stone is, and the table is the flat part on the top of the stone. They are very important in determining how a diamond looks and also how large it looks.

Unfortunately, I''m not much help for princess cut stones and ideal proportions. There are AGS cut proportions for princess stones that are a great reference, but the links aren''t working on pricescope...anyone know about this??


I would suggest starting a new topic with a subject line of "help me find a 1.5c princess" or something like that so that people who are experts with princess cut stones will chime in and help find a really good one. They might not see it in this thread, since it''s mostly about ebay. Then I would basically describe what you are looking for and your budget.

 

[JulieN]

The depth percentage is total depth/ shorter width.

The AGS cut proportions chart is impossible to read for the average consumer.

Kinda liking this one: http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/1964/, but will look around some more.

Out of those two WF ones, the first one is a possibility although I don't like thin girdle, but you'd need to have Ideal-scope/ASET pictures taken to be sure.

 

[researcher]

I''m about to go to bed, but before I do I wanted to say you should do a quick search on PS for princess cuts. You will find TONS of information. Second, why are you against SI stones when you were considering a stone with a HORRIBLE cut on Ebay? The reason I ask is I have a 3.22ct princess cut that is SI1 in clarity, and it is 100% eye clean. Now, can I see inclusions under a 10x loupe? Yes. But, other than PSers I don''t know of anyone who carries a loupe around with them

There are SI stones that have visible inclusions, but there are stones, like mine, that do not have visible inclusions. My take is why pay for something you can''t see? And if you get a well cut princess you are fine getting an H/I in color, assuming it faces up white.

For a few quick hints on princess cuts, look for stones with a crown of 10% or higher, table smaller than or equal to depth (there are always exceptions but following this "rule" can help you to narrow down your choices), avoid very thin or very thick girdles (or girdles with a lot of variation), and remember that an ASET or ideal scope image are needed to truly judge a stone.

Good Luck!

 

[researcher]

Date: 5/31/2006 3:22:42 AM
Author: JulieN
The depth percentage is total depth/ shorter width.


The AGS cut proportions chart is impossible to read for the average consumer.


Kinda liking this one: http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/1964/, but will look around some more.


Out of those two WF ones, the first one is a possibility although I don''t like thin girdle, but you''d need to have Ideal-scope/ASET pictures taken to be sure.

What''s wrong with a thin girdle? Thin girdles are good--yes, even on princess cuts--unless they''re very thin or extremely thin. Please read This Article which states that a thin girdle is good for all shapes.

 

[msb700]

glad to see that ur steering away from the ebay buy (at least i hope u r) dont always trust the reviews you see (even if they are 1000+), u definately have to be careful wat u buy from ebay especially when it comes to diamonds! I was once ripped off (they took my cash, never received the product) from an online seller with a store and over 2000+ positive reviews...a few short weeks later, the seller disappers and the store no longer exists...it took so much time and such hassle for me to get a hold of him and contact ebay that i just ended up forgetting about the whole thing....so do be very careful

and like everyone said, there are AMAZING deals online thru the vendor link here in PS and doing a search will return a lot of excellent deals....and of course, everyone here has a wealth of experience and information that they can share with u if u ask...

i wish u the best of luck! and always remember that cut is the most important that even a smaller diamond with a better cut than a much larger diamond will always be brighter with more fire!

 

[JPWRana]

Date: 5/31/2006 3:47:57 AM
Author: researcher
I''m about to go to bed, but before I do I wanted to say you should do a quick search on PS for princess cuts. You will find TONS of information. Second, why are you against SI stones when you were considering a stone with a HORRIBLE cut on Ebay?

The cut was a VS2. with the loupe, I would always see the inclusions on an SI1... thats why.

Date: 5/31/2006 3:47:57 AM
Author: researcher
The reason I ask is I have a 3.22ct princess cut that is SI1 in clarity, and it is 100% eye clean. Now, can I see inclusions under a 10x loupe? Yes. But, other than PSers I don''t know of anyone who carries a loupe around with them

There are SI stones that have visible inclusions, but there are stones, like mine, that do not have visible inclusions. My take is why pay for something you can''t see? And if you get a well cut princess you are fine getting an H/I in color, assuming it faces up white.

My gf and I prefer a bigger rock size.

Date: 5/31/2006 3:47:57 AM
Author: researcher
For a few quick hints on princess cuts, look for stones with a crown of 10% or higher, table smaller than or equal to depth (there are always exceptions but following this ''rule'' can help you to narrow down your choices), avoid very thin or very thick girdles (or girdles with a lot of variation), and remember that an ASET or ideal scope image are needed to truly judge a stone.

Good Luck!

Any reason why these specifics on a princess cut?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

HI, I can''t be much help on the ideal princess measurements, but the reason you want a well cut stone is because it will be more sparkly, brilliant, and beautiful! I also prefer VS clarity, so I understand you there. It''s a feature I want and am willing to pay for. But the other important factor about cut with a princess is that if it is too deep, then the face-up diameter of the stone will be smaller. Did you see how very much smaller that second 1.61ct. stone was from the first one even though they were the same carat weight? This is why it matters to find out the ideal proportions. I''d recommend calling somewhere like GoodOldGold for some guidance choosing a princess with the right proportions.

 

[JulieN]

If SIZE is what you want... this is interesting: http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/2052/

It''s an SI3 clarity enhanced J without a grading report! Deep, large table, on the slightly rectangular side (1.06). Probably the best way to get something near 2 cts without breaking your budget.

 

[JPWRana]

Date: 6/1/2006 5:48:45 AM
Author: JulieN
If SIZE is what you want... this is interesting: http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/2052/


It''s an SI3 clarity enhanced J without a grading report! Deep, large table, on the slightly rectangular side (1.06). Probably the best way to get something near 2 cts without breaking your budget.

I took a look at it, but it has no pictures... and I don''t blame them too... who would want to show pictures of an SI3!!

 

[JPWRana]

Date: 5/31/2006 10:05:21 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
HI, I can''t be much help on the ideal princess measurements, but the reason you want a well cut stone is because it will be more sparkly, brilliant, and beautiful! I also prefer VS clarity, so I understand you there. It''s a feature I want and am willing to pay for. But the other important factor about cut with a princess is that if it is too deep, then the face-up diameter of the stone will be smaller. Did you see how very much smaller that second 1.61ct. stone was from the first one even though they were the same carat weight? This is why it matters to find out the ideal proportions. I''d recommend calling somewhere like GoodOldGold for some guidance choosing a princess with the right proportions.

Exactly... and I dont know WHICH specific tutorials to read on as to depth, height, table, girdle, and other parameters to know WHAT WILL GET ME the best sparkle.

So what is considered "too deep"?

 

[researcher]

Date: 5/31/2006 9:07:33 PM
Author: JPWRana

Date: 5/31/2006 3:47:57 AM

Author: researcher

I''m about to go to bed, but before I do I wanted to say you should do a quick search on PS for princess cuts. You will find TONS of information. Second, why are you against SI stones when you were considering a stone with a HORRIBLE cut on Ebay?

The cut was a VS2. with the loupe, I would always see the inclusions on an SI1... thats why.

Date: 5/31/2006 3:47:57 AM

Author: researcher

The reason I ask is I have a 3.22ct princess cut that is SI1 in clarity, and it is 100% eye clean. Now, can I see inclusions under a 10x loupe? Yes. But, other than PSers I don''t know of anyone who carries a loupe around with them

There are SI stones that have visible inclusions, but there are stones, like mine, that do not have visible inclusions. My take is why pay for something you can''t see? And if you get a well cut princess you are fine getting an H/I in color, assuming it faces up white.

My gf and I prefer a bigger rock size.

Date: 5/31/2006 3:47:57 AM

Author: researcher

For a few quick hints on princess cuts, look for stones with a crown of 10% or higher, table smaller than or equal to depth (there are always exceptions but following this ''rule'' can help you to narrow down your choices), avoid very thin or very thick girdles (or girdles with a lot of variation), and remember that an ASET or ideal scope image are needed to truly judge a stone.


Good Luck!

Any reason why these specifics on a princess cut?

You said you both prefer a bigger rock size, but, um, my stone is bigger than the ones you''re looking at (by over a carat), and my SI1 is truly eye clean. Part of the reason you can''t see anything in my stone is the cut. I can''t stress ENOUGH how important cut is to the beauty of a princess cut. I would rather have an M/SI2 with an ideal cut than a D/FL with a poor cut. Now, I can understand not wanting to go below VS2 in clarity, but you have to give up something with your budget and cut is the last of the C''s you want to give up on--especially in a princess cut! So, that leaves you with color, clarity, or carat size, and with two of those C''s being visible 100% of the time and the third--clarity--being only visible with a loupe (on really good SI1 stones)...I guess you can tell I have my preferences

Sorry, I don''t mean to push my opinions on you, but I just want you to make sure you choose the best stone. The worst thing that could happen would be your girl comparing her ring to her friend''s rings and having their rings WAY out-perform her stone.

Accordingly, the reason I gave you those specs is they''re BASIC guidelines for choosing a princess cut. As I said there are always exceptions, but if you''re going to look outside of these numbers you should only look at AGS-0 and possibly AGS-1 stones as they are a different beast altogether and may not fit into the old "standards".

Does this make sense?

 

[JPWRana]

Date: 5/31/2006 3:47:57 AM

Author: researcher

You said you both prefer a bigger rock size, but, um, my stone is bigger than the ones you''re looking at (by over a carat), and my SI1 is truly eye clean. Part of the reason you can''t see anything in my stone is the cut. I can''t stress ENOUGH how important cut is to the beauty of a princess cut. I would rather have an M/SI2 with an ideal cut than a D/FL with a poor cut.

That''s something that I don''t know WHAT SPECIFIC research I need to do to determine what cut I need to look for. I already got the carat, color, and clarity down, but the cut is what I dont know... What table, depth, crown, girdle, etc. percentages should I look for in a princess?!?!?! I know there should be SPECIFIC numbers that have been proven to give the best flash

Date: 5/31/2006 3:47:57 AM

Author: researcher

Now, I can understand not wanting to go below VS2 in clarity, but you have to give up something with your budget and cut is the last of the C''s you want to give up on--especially in a princess cut! So, that leaves you with color, clarity, or carat size, and with two of those C''s being visible 100% of the time and the third--clarity--being only visible with a loupe (on really good SI1 stones)...I guess you can tell I have my preferences

Sorry, I don''t mean to push my opinions on you, but I just want you to make sure you choose the best stone. The worst thing that could happen would be your girl comparing her ring to her friend''s rings and having their rings WAY out-perform her stone.

NO no... that''s cool... the opinions REALLY help me out. With an I color, VS2, and GREAT CUT... how much savings difference would there be from a 1.6 to a 1.55 or to a 1.65 carat? (This is called DoE by the way... Design of Experiments... which I learned in my major

Date: 5/31/2006 3:47:57 AM

Author: researcher

Accordingly, the reason I gave you those specs is they''re BASIC guidelines for choosing a princess cut. As I said there are always exceptions, but if you''re going to look outside of these numbers you should only look at AGS-0 and possibly AGS-1 stones as they are a different beast altogether and may not fit into the old ''standards''.

Does this make sense?

Only this AGS-0 and 1 thing doesn''t make sense to me. What are these things?

 

[researcher]

AGS has a new grading system for princess cuts. The ideal stones will have a cut score of 0, while very good princesses will have a score of 1. I would not go lower than 1, and would try for an AGS0. Now, the AGS system did not come into play until, I think, mid/late 2005 or something. So, for princess cuts with certificates before that date there was no system of grading the cut proportions of princess shaped stones (and no AGS reports for them).

Now, you don't have to get an AGS stone. You can save money by getting a GIA graded stone, but it's harder to determine which stones are very good cuts or better. To narrow down the stones there are some basic guidelines, but no hard and fast rules. In my own research, I have come to the conclusion that I prefer princess cuts with the following:

Depth: High 60's to mid 70's
Table: 65-73% (depends on the depth though); a loose "rule" is having a table equal to or less than the depth. HOWEVER, if I remember correctly I think over 65% or something of AGS-O stones have a depth < or = 60%. But, they tend to be a different beast altogether. Also, I prefer a slightly larger table because I love the brilliance of the stones!
Crown: At least 10%
Pavilion Depth: Around 60%
Girdle: TN, TN-M, TN-STK, M, M-STK, M-TK, STK, STK-TK

I can't tell you what the cost savings will be, as each stone is different. But, you can compare stones with these parameters and find out for yourself!

Good Luck!

 

[researcher]

BTW, what do you mean by sparkle? Scintillation, fire, or brilliance? I prefer a good balance of all of them, but people do have their preference

 

[aquarius4u]

STAY AWAY FROM THIS COMPANY AND ITS AFFILIATES....after 2 weeks still waiting for my refund which is more than what you are planning to shell out. Also think about their non refundables ! eg. shipping , appraisal , and resizing. though the later 2 are non mandatory but i feel so duped because they clearly misrepresented their product as agreed by their staff assigned for returns and exchange though at that time he was trying to let me do an exchange instead of doing a return with money back. Spent over $200 for nothing ... i hope this guy from returns will be fair enough. ..i will surely keep u all posted!