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Confused about steep/deep...

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JA72

Rough_Rock
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Jan 16, 2009
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Does anyone know of an article that speaks in very easy to understand terms (for the novice) on what exactly is a steep/ deep diamond and what steep / deep does to a diamond? I have seen a few but it feels as if I walked right into the middle of diamond expert convention. Is steep/ deep a bad thing? What affect does it have on the stone? What determines a steep/ deep? What parameters is a steep / deep?

Thanks
 

Kelli

Ideal_Rock
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May 27, 2008
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5,455
Steep deep is when the crown angles are steep, combined with a deep pavilion angle. It starts looking that way around 35/41 if I remember correctly, but the HCA can be used to rule out the bad ones. The visual effect is an area of darkness under the the table referred to as "leakage". It means the light is passing through the diamond rather than being reflected back out the top. I had a GIA "triple excellent" that was steep and deep. It had a crown angle of 35.5 and a pavilion angle of 41.2. I then had it recut to better proportions, and it made a significant impact on the brightness and sparkle. I''ll post before and after pics.
 

Kelli

Ideal_Rock
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May 27, 2008
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5,455
After. WAAAAAY brighter, which also makes it look bigger, even though it''s technically smaller


arrows2abc.JPG
 

Kelli

Ideal_Rock
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One thing that still pictures can''t show is the difference in sparkle, which is my favorite part.


Hope this was helpful. If you want to avoid steep deep combos, run the stone thru the HCA, or simply post the stats here for others to check. If you want to REALLY simplify the process, stick with AGS0 diamonds. Their cut grading is more strict than the GIA''s.
 

JA72

Rough_Rock
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Jan 16, 2009
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Wow! I immediately see the difference. Thanks :) What a gorgeous diamond. I wasn''t aware that recutting was an option. How do you go about doing that and what is the cost involved?
 

JA72

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 16, 2009
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46
Kelli, if you don''t mind, what are the before and after specs on your diamond. I want to see how much difference in angles etc can improve a diamond so much.
 

Kelli

Ideal_Rock
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May 27, 2008
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Thanks! Recutting is an option, but not a risk-free one. You have to find a cutter who is willing to take a look, and the cost can vary depending on the size of the stone and what needs to be done. I went through Brian Gavin, when he was still at WF. It cost a few hundred dollars, not exactly sure anymore, but I could look it up if you want. I''ll post a link to my recut thread, where all of the specs are listed. Do you already have a stone that needs recutting?

Here''s the link https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/extreme-diamond-makeover-my-wf-recut.96578/
 

JA72

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 16, 2009
Messages
46
Wow! You didn''t lose much at all but what an incredible difference. If I saw you in person, your diamond would stop me dead in my tracks. Slowly all of this information is turning the dimmer switch up a little at a time. Soon, the light bulb will switch on (I hope). I wanted to know about recutting in case after I settle on mine if it isn''t quite as perfect as it should be it is great to know re-cutting is an option. Not to mention all of this diamond info is fascinating. Knowledge is power especially when investing in something so small but so expensive! :) But, as the saying goes great things come in small packages.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Apr 30, 2005
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42,064
The ladies above have given great descriptions and examples. A diamond is considered to be a steep deep if both the crown and pavilion angles are too steep and deep to work well together. This results in light leakage, and a less attractive diamond. The HCA should weed out most of them. I work on borderline steep deeps beginning at 35 deg crown/ 40.8 pavilion and above. To further complicate things, GIA round the numbers so that is why Idealscope images are so useful as some borderline steep deep combos such as 35/ 40.8 or 31/ 41 may in actual fact be ok depending on which direction the numbers are rounded in.

Also I would try to buy the best diamond you can to begin with as recutting is not without risk as Kel says.
 

Kelli

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 27, 2008
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5,455
Date: 4/7/2009 12:42:34 AM
Author: JA72
Wow! You didn''t lose much at all but what an incredible difference. If I saw you in person, your diamond would stop me dead in my tracks. Slowly all of this information is turning the dimmer switch up a little at a time. Soon, the light bulb will switch on (I hope). I wanted to know about recutting in case after I settle on mine if it isn''t quite as perfect as it should be it is great to know re-cutting is an option. Not to mention all of this diamond info is fascinating. Knowledge is power especially when investing in something so small but so expensive! :) But, as the saying goes great things come in small packages.
Thanks JA72! I''m glad I was able to help. I have to say though, that the recutting was a long and somewhat painful process. It takes time, and understanding that while this is rare, some diamonds do break, and it''s pretty much imposssible to get insurance for the process. If the diamond does happen to break, you''re out of luck. Also, not all diamonds are suitable for recuts either. Some diamonds have internal characteristics that make them more prone to breaking and therefore cutters will not risk it. Inclusions can also play a factor, and they can NEVER guarantee what the results will be. I happened to be very lucky and I''m extremely thankful for that, but if I had it to do over again, I''d just make sure I bought a well-cut diamond in the first place. That''s why I asked if you already had a steep deep diamond. If you did, recutting might be worth looking into, but there are a lot of great diamonds out there. No need to buy a fixer-upper.
 

Ellen

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
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24,427
There's no need to consider/worry about re-cutting a stone. Just buy a well cut stone in the first place, there's plenty out there.
 
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