Choosing a ring designer: Hannah vs Kirsch vs Canera

[Bozman52]

@LLJsmom : Thanks for continuing to take time to help me understand the forum dynamics here. I'll certainly aim to be more congnizant of my tone in the future. Getting this kind of feedback is rare, but it is helpful to see how others receive messages, especially when they recieve them in a way that was not intended. Case in point . . .

And I just noticed your eyeroll at the bottom of your most recent comment to me. I don't know why you feel the need to eyeroll at me

Absolutely NOT intended for you, or anyone else for that matter! It was a joking placement of that emoji because just prior to that I made a comment about putting eye roll emojis as a response to my post. It was me poking fun at myself . . . at least that was the intent.

Also if you are interested, members’ historical posts can be found if you right click on a members avatar and see their past posts and threads.

That's really useful to know. I was thinking there must be a way to do this, but I hadn't figured it out yet.

Thanks for the link to the H&A thread. Surprisingly, I hadn't come across that one yet and it very concisely explains things.

 

[Bozman52]

I’m late to the thread. I don’t think we know if this is supposed to be a surprise to your girlfriend or not. Is the diamond supposed to be a surprise? Is the setting supposed to be a surprise?

How old is your girlfriend? Antique style cuts are hotter than hot right now, especially with the young generation. The setting you want is suitable for both a modern H&A cushion or an antique style cushion.

Splintery, thin facets in H&A cut style is a preference. There is no scientific reason that a superideal cut diamond can’t have either skinny arrows or chunky arrows. LLJsMom is correct in saying that as many jewelry lovers age, they start to appreciate both larger size diameters and fatter arrows so they can see them better. Because of limited supply of superideal diamonds right now, you may just have to take what you can get, and your choice of skinny or fat facets is a mute point (any superideal coming out of BGD will be exceptional).

That said, if you pick a diamond that YOU prefer, are you sure your girlfriend will prefer it? Does she know what she wants?

If the engagement ring is truly up to you, then I believe this is a simple task because you say you want an H&A. Buy what you like in the cushion shape that your girlfriend likes, and that seems to be a modern H&A cushion, and have the setting you love made for it. I recommend that you familiarize yourself with the three designers via Show Me Threads here. If you cannot tell the difference between the three designers, then I think Victor Canera is a great choice because he is very consistent, has impeccable customer service, is generous with his time, is approachable and professional, and he makes the style of ring you want, beautifully.

Good luck with your choices, I can tell the outcome is extremely important to you. I’m excited to see what direction you go in.

Hi LightBright, this is probably a party that's best arriving late to, and thanks for getting back on topic. Yes, this whole ring is supposed to be a surprise to her. She wants it that way, as do I. Although this definitely raises the stakes in me getting the "right" ring for her.

I largely know her preferences, as I've asked covert questons over the years for exactly this purpose. She's not super into diamonds like those on this forum, so none of these things I'm concerned about will ever be thought about by her. However, since I'm paying a sizeable sum of money for the ring, all these specs matter to me, and when I look at the ring I want to know that there we no better diamond or setting options that I could have gotten. Regarding age, she's 35, so probably not included in the "young" generation. She does appreciate vintage things, so I do think she would be happy with an AVC stone. My internal dilemma is would she be even happier with a H&A cushion.

The "show me" thread recommendation is a very good one and I have done this. I have various threads bookmarked of the three designers and I re-look at them regularly hoping that at some point one will click for me. It unfortunatley hasn't happened yet, as all three do very amazing work. Thanks for providing your thoughts on Victor. He clearly would be a very safe pair of hands for this project based on all the responses.

 

[LLJsmom]

Hi LightBright, this is probably a party that's best arriving late to, and thanks for getting back on topic. Yes, this whole ring is supposed to be a surprise to her. She wants it that way, as do I. Although this definitely raises the stakes in me getting the "right" ring for her.

I largely know her preferences, as I've asked covert questons over the years for exactly this purpose. She's not super into diamonds like those on this forum, so none of these things I'm concerned about will ever be thought about by her. However, since I'm paying a sizeable sum of money for the ring, all these specs matter to me, and when I look at the ring I want to know that there we no better diamond or setting options that I could have gotten. Regarding age, she's 35, so probably not included in the "young" generation. She does appreciate vintage things, so I do think she would be happy with an AVC stone. My internal dilemma is would she be even happier with a H&A cushion.

The "show me" thread recommendation is a very good one and I have done this. I have various threads bookmarked of the three designers and I re-look at them regularly hoping that at some point one will click for me. It unfortunatley hasn't happened yet, as all three do very amazing work. Thanks for providing your thoughts on Victor. He clearly would be a very safe pair of hands for this project based on all the responses.

Have you had a chance to view either a H&A cushion or a Canera Antique Cushion (Victor seems to call it an OMB) in person? If you decide to go with Victor, will you be meeting with him in person before he starts on the ring? I know it's really hard in these days of covid, and you may not even be in the Los Angeles area, and it's definitely not necessary to meet with Victor in person to start a project with him. However, if you were meeting him in person, you could of course see his antique cut cushions in person. Am I correct to assume that you've seen YouTube videos on AVCs already, which are essentially similar in flavor to Victor's OMBs?

I'm not saying either a BGD H&A cushion is better or worse than a CAC, just different styles. If you've fully decided on BGD cushion, then I think going with Victor, especially with the type setting you've chosen, is a fabulous idea. If you want an antique cut cushion style, I would get Victor's antique cut OMB and then choose a setting.

I assume you've seen this thread but if not...

Post your Victor Canera beauties here!

I thought it would be great to have an archive of all the gorgeous Victor Canera e-rings on PS. Please feel free to add your own, and any other VC rings you find! :naughty:

www.pricescope.com

This is a very old video of a AVC in Victor's emilya halo, a stunning setting. I am just posting this because it's an example of how well Victor's halo compliments an antique cut cushion. If you went with him you would have access to this whole look because Victor cuts OMBs and he makes the Emilya halo setting. Not saying you should go with a halo, but just so you can see how it looks. (To me, Victor's OMB is similar enough to a AVC so that this is a fair comparison.)

Your question about which stone your fiance would like more is a tough one because the two types are so different. If you've done a ton of reading on PS already, you probably know this. Antique cuts give you big flashes of light where as modern cuts are definitely more splintery. In an ideal world, if you wanted to go with an antique cut cushion, you could get an OMB from Victor and you can get the setting from him as well. But you are very lucky that he is willing to set a BGD. I've had multiple projects with Victor, but he would not set my Whiteflash ACA, so if he said he would set the BGD, I would not pass up the opportunity.

And one other thing is that if you want a particular size of stone, it's great that there are so many BGD stones to choose from. There is no uncertainty. I just checked out Victor's OMB availability, and largest one is a 1.576, which seems smaller than what you're looking for. If you wanted a larger cushion from Victor, I'm guessing he does not have any in the pipeline and you would need to custom cut, which is a potentially lengthy and risky proposition at this point in time. Rough is expensive now. You don't have confirmation of the color and clarity until the cutting is complete and the diamond can be graded. Then people need to see if the final result falls within the agreed upon parameters, and potentially negotiate if it doesn't. Now with covid, I don't know how much longer the process will take. Maybe AGS is even slower. Just picking a BGD cushion seems so much less of a headache.

However, if you like or want an antique style cushion enough, have time, and are willing to deal with the uncertainty of the custom cutting process, Victor's OMB would be beautiful in one of his settings. Just sayin'.

 

[Bozman52]

Have you had a chance to view either a H&A cushion or a Canera Antique Cushion (Victor seems to call it an OMB) in person? If you decide to go with Victor, will you be meeting with him in person before he starts on the ring?

Thanks again for all the input! I have not seen either a H&A cushion or and AVC/OMB in person. I do think this would be exceptionally helpful and may actually help to definitively make up my mind. Unfortunately, I don't think it's in the cards. I don't expect that I will get to see Victor- or any of the designers- in person ahead of beginning the ring.

Am I correct to assume that you've seen YouTube videos on AVCs already, which are essentially similar in flavor to Victor's OMBs?

You are correct; I've tried to track down every possible video I can find on YouTube of the AVC and H&S cushion, but I actually hadn't seen the one you linked to, so thank you for this. That's actually a really good video to show off both the OMB stone, as well as Victor's work on the setting. I've not specifically looked much for Victor's OMB stone, as I haven't yet decided if I want to go down that vintage path. However, if I do, then it will be a decision between the OMB and AVC . . . although if I like the AVC more then I'll likely have to go with someone other than Victor, as he only agreed to set a H&A stone for me, not someone else's vintage stone.

Thanks for checking Victor's stock of his OMB. I would probably want to go a bit bigger than a 1.576, but perhaps he has some suitible ones in the pipeline that he's expecting (or maybe he'd set an AVC if I asked really nicely!).

One of my major takeaways from this thread is that getting something cut from rough is probably not an option, so it's nice to be able to tick that off at least. First, I think the uncertainty in the final output would drive me mad. Second, it sounds like the timelines are just not really in line with what I need. I'm not trying to rush the proposal, but I do need to get moving on this and don't want to wait 6 months before I have a ring in hand.

 

[Venti25]

Thanks again for all the input! I have not seen either a H&A cushion or and AVC/OMB in person. I do think this would be exceptionally helpful and may actually help to definitively make up my mind. Unfortunately, I don't think it's in the cards. I don't expect that I will get to see Victor- or any of the designers- in person ahead of beginning the ring.




You are correct; I've tried to track down every possible video I can find on YouTube of the AVC and H&S cushion, but I actually hadn't seen the one you linked to, so thank you for this. That's actually a really good video to show off both the OMB stone, as well as Victor's work on the setting. I've not specifically looked much for Victor's OMB stone, as I haven't yet decided if I want to go down that vintage path. However, if I do, then it will be a decision between the OMB and AVC . . . although if I like the AVC more then I'll likely have to go with someone other than Victor, as he only agreed to set a H&A stone for me, not someone else's vintage stone.

Thanks for checking Victor's stock of his OMB. I would probably want to go a bit bigger than a 1.576, but perhaps he has some suitible ones in the pipeline that he's expecting (or maybe he'd set an AVC if I asked really nicely!).

One of my major takeaways from this thread is that getting something cut from rough is probably not an option, so it's nice to be able to tick that off at least. First, I think the uncertainty in the final output would drive me mad. Second, it sounds like the timelines are just not really in line with what I need. I'm not trying to rush the proposal, but I do need to get moving on this and don't want to wait 6 months before I have a ring in hand.

You may have missed the comment in the thread earlier. However, Victor will not work with August Vintage branded stones. So if you do get a AVC you will need to go with SK or HM for the setting. If you are considering VC as your ring maker then better source the OMB from him, it's easier.

Edit: I see you've already received an understanding regarding the AV. Good .

 

[whitewave]

Late to the thread. Give me the fat arrows!

I’ve used BG for stones and a ring and he did beautiful work.

it’s my dream to work with Victor.

Maytal too, but I probably won’t get the chance (my collection is nearly done).

SK. Me personally, meh. I’m neutral. Not opposed but not dying to work with him either.

 

[Bozman52]

You may have missed the comment in the thread earlier. However, Victor will not work with August Vintage branded stones. So if you do get a AVC you will need to go with SK or HM for the setting. If you are considering VC as your ring maker then better source the OMB from him, it's easier.

Edit: I see you've already received an understanding regarding the AV. Good .

Thanks for looking out for me! Yes, I was aware that Victor won't set the AVC, but I think I learned this from a different thread. Given he has his own version of that style of stone, I can totally see why he would take this stance.

 

[Bozman52]

Late to the thread. Give me the fat arrows!

I’ve used BG for stones and a ring and he did beautiful work.

it’s my dream to work with Victor.

Maytal too, but I probably won’t get the chance (my collection is nearly done).

SK. Me personally, meh. I’m neutral. Not opposed but not dying to work with him either.

I really appreciate the input, whitewave! I'm glad to see another vote for the fatter arrows! In real life, I personally probably couldn't even tell the difference, so I'm sure it's a non issue that I'm making out to be a big deal. I'm getting a lot more comfortable with that 2.18ct stone, largely becasue of comments in this thread, so it may be the winner.

Noted on your experience with BG. I'm not considering BG for the setting, but I consistently have seen amazing comments about their stones. I love the fact that they show ASETs and real-life magnified moving views of the stones. No one else seems to do this as well or consistently. Thanks for your thoughts on the designers. Every little bit helps to push me in a certain direction and get comfortable with finally making a decision.

 

[LLJsmom]

Thanks again for all the input! I have not seen either a H&A cushion or and AVC/OMB in person. I do think this would be exceptionally helpful and may actually help to definitively make up my mind. Unfortunately, I don't think it's in the cards. I don't expect that I will get to see Victor- or any of the designers- in person ahead of beginning the ring.



You are correct; I've tried to track down every possible video I can find on YouTube of the AVC and H&S cushion, but I actually hadn't seen the one you linked to, so thank you for this. That's actually a really good video to show off both the OMB stone, as well as Victor's work on the setting. I've not specifically looked much for Victor's OMB stone, as I haven't yet decided if I want to go down that vintage path. However, if I do, then it will be a decision between the OMB and AVC . . . although if I like the AVC more then I'll likely have to go with someone other than Victor, as he only agreed to set a H&A stone for me, not someone else's vintage stone.

Thanks for checking Victor's stock of his OMB. I would probably want to go a bit bigger than a 1.576, but perhaps he has some suitible ones in the pipeline that he's expecting (or maybe he'd set an AVC if I asked really nicely!).

One of my major takeaways from this thread is that getting something cut from rough is probably not an option, so it's nice to be able to tick that off at least. First, I think the uncertainty in the final output would drive me mad. Second, it sounds like the timelines are just not really in line with what I need. I'm not trying to rush the proposal, but I do need to get moving on this and don't want to wait 6 months before I have a ring in hand.

You are welcome. I would suggest the following if you haven't already. Call and talk to Victor and chat with him about his custom cuts. He will give you the facts of how it's working with him at this time. My comments are based on how we've seen it work with some PSers on the forum but times and conditions change so who knows. Maybe he does have some stones coming down. There was once where he was in the process of cutting a stone, and I could have tried to buy it, without it being a custom cut. I just ended up changing my spec requirements and I went with Whiteflash.

For me personally, I cannot tell the difference between an AVC or an OMB. But that is just from looking at videos. I have NOT spent hours and hours staring and comparing them IRL.

It seems you are leaning toward the BGD, which I think you would be really happy with regard to light performance. Good luck with everything and keep us updated.

 

[Bonfire]

I really admire your methodical dive into learning all you can about modern cushions, AVC, and OMB, however, if you are at all serious about either one of the BG stones you really need to act. I’m not sure if they will put them on reserve for you like Whiteflash does, but there are plenty of eyes on this forum that will snatch these up. It’s happened many times to others unfortunately. Food for thought.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Glad you are feeling better about the 2.18! As you said, the little difference in the arrows would be hard to discern in real life viewing, but that one just looks like the most perfectly cut to me. The other one is still very nice. I will second what @Bonfire just said. There are only a couple of BG cushions that you are interested in, and I have thought from the start of this thread how risky it is to be talking about this for days with stone recommendations in the thread, since lurkers do read these threads to get ideas. There are definitely more buyers searching for rounds, but we have seen people talk about stones in threads and some of the stones sell before that person makes a decision.

 

[Bozman52]

@Bonfire and @diamondseeker2006 , top tip on the lurkers. As if I needed another stressor in this process! It would seem there aren't many overly interested in the H&A cushion, but one never knows if this thread has given people some ideas they perhaps didn't previously have. The scenario of someone potentailly beating me to the punch on a stone was in the back of my mind, but I probably have not considered it with enough seriousness.

Alright, I need to make some tough decisions . . . stay tuned.

 

[acezarra]

@Bonfire and @diamondseeker2006 , top tip on the lurkers. As if I needed another stressor in this process! It would seem there aren't many overly interested in the H&A cushion, but one never knows if this thread has given people some ideas they perhaps didn't previously have. The scenario of someone potentailly beating me to the punch on a stone was in the back of my mind, but I probably have not considered it with enough seriousness.

Alright, I need to make some tough decisions . . . stay tuned.

I have a BGD H&A cushion that I am in love with. You can't go wrong. I had a 1.7 K (my avatar) and recently upgraded (a few weeks ago) to a 2.11. Mine is an L so yours will be much more icy white. I have had 4 different stones from BGD and they NEVER disappoint when it comes to optics. My diamonds are small in comparison to lots on this forum, but I still get compliments all the time because they are so sparkly! The combination of their stone with VC would be amazing.



I tried to attach a short video but it shows my personal youtube page details. I'm trying to fix.

 

[Bozman52]

I have a BGD H&A cushion that I am in love with. You can't go wrong. I had a 1.7 K (my avatar) and recently upgraded (a few weeks ago) to a 2.11. Mine is an L so yours will be much more icy white. I have had 4 different stones from BGD and they NEVER disappoint when it comes to optics. My diamonds are small in comparison to lots on this forum, but I still get compliments all the time because they are so sparkly! The combination of their stone with VC would be amazing.



I tried to attach a short video but it shows my personal youtube page details. I'm trying to fix.

Yes, finally a H&A cushion in the wild! I'm super appreciative of your comment, as you're the first person I've found in real life who has one (outside of YouTube videos). Your avatar pic is rad; I love it. Your upgraded ring is also very beautiful, and a similar size to what I'm looking at, so I apprecaite the hand shots for context. I'm also relieved to hear another success story about BG . . . or four separate success sotries in your case! I hope they at least give you some kind of repeat buyer discount now!

 

[acezarra]

Yes, finally a H&A cushion in the wild! I'm super appreciative of your comment, as you're the first person I've found in real life who has one (outside of YouTube videos). Your avatar pic is rad; I love it. Your upgraded ring is also very beautiful, and a similar size to what I'm looking at, so I apprecaite the hand shots for context. I'm also relieved to hear another success story about BG . . . or four separate success sotries in your case! I hope they at least give you some kind of repeat buyer discount now!

They do! I have also used them for two recuts, a pair of studs, and two different custom band projects. I am a 5.5 for reference (with large knuckles lol).

 

[Bozman52]

Hi everyone, I just thought I'd provide an update for anyone who may be interested still. Regarding the stone, I was able to secure the 2.18ct from Brian Gavin. Thanks to @Bonfire and @diamondseeker2006 for the nudge that someone may scoop up the stone from under me! Brian actually uploaded a new "hearts" shot to the website after he got the stone in hand, so you can see that in the listing now: https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/2.180-i-vs1-select-cushion-gia-2185861629

I still haven't seen the stone in person, but I spoke with Brian on the phone while he had it in hand. He said it was an amazing stone and had no issues with it at all. In fact, he offered to "upgrade" the stone to a BG Signature, as it is currently a BG Select since it came from a 3rd party supplier. It needed to be AGS graded in order to be one of his BG Signature collection, so I paid a bit extra to have this done. This also means that I now get all the additional perks of a BG Signature stone, such as the ability to upgrade.

I may have misinterpreted Brian, but my understanding was that this stone originally came from him, but was supplied direct to this third party vendor for them to sell as their own diamond. They were struggling to sell it for various reasons, so Brian agreed to list it on his site to help them out. As Brian was familiar with the stone, this is why he agreed to upgrade it to a BG Signature. Anyway, it is still with AGS getting graded right now, but then it will have both a GIA and AGS certification . . . although I'm not sure if this dual certification provides me with any other benefits other than the perks with Brian.

Regarding the setting, I'd actually like to get some input, as I'm wondering if my expectations are off. Becasue of this thread, I ended up choosing Victor Canera and have had several email exchanges with him. I also provided him with a very detailed document showing different design cues I'm considering for various parts of the ring. I was expecting him to come back and provide me with some detailed thoughts on what he thought would be best, but I received an extremely brief message back saying that all of my potential design cues are possible to execute. He also did not address a couple of other question I had. In follow up messages I wrote, I received equally brief responses and still have not had some questions answered.

I know that the PS community adores this guy and people love working with him, but I'm finding it a bit different than I anticipated. Generally speaking, it feels like he's not overly interested in helping me arrive at a final design for this setting. However, the whole point of working with someone like him is to get his expert opinion on what will and won't work. Is this brevity normal for Victor, or am I maybe just catching him at a particularly busy/bad time?

 

[tyty333]

Congrats on your stone! Are you speaking with Victor directly or someone who works for him?

Maybe Maytal would be a better option for you. I hear she is great with communications and of course, she draws the design
herself. I have not heard of one bad review from an MH customer (watch, someone will post one now )

I'm sure Victor can do what you want...you may just need to settle on what you want first (with minimal input)?

 

[Bozman52]

Congrats on your stone! Are you speaking with Victor directly or someone who works for him?

Maybe Maytal would be a better option for you. I hear she is great with communications and of course, she draws the design
herself. I have not heard of one bad review from an MH customer (watch, someone will post one now )

I'm sure Victor can do what you want...you may just need to settle on what you want first (with minimal input)?

I was initialy speaking with one of Victor's sales reps, who really was not very helpful at all. When I finally called to provide payment details, Victor himself answered the phone. We had a good initial chat and he told me to email him directly moving forward, which is what I've been doing . . . so all my comments are about my direct interaction with Victor. However, a very fair call out, as I've seen others mention their struggles with some of the inital sales people!

It does seem like Maytal does a lot more "customer coddling," so to speak, which is perhaps something I might be a good candidate for! However, Victor seems to do more cathedral solitaire type settings, which is what I'm after. I've not seen anything from Maytal that is close to what I'm after, although I'm sure she would have no problem executing what I have in mind to an extremely high standard.

 

[Cerulean]

I was initialy speaking with one of Victor's sales reps, who really was not very helpful at all. When I finally called to provide payment details, Victor himself answered the phone. We had a good initial chat and he told me to email him directly moving forward, which is what I've been doing . . . so all my comments are about my direct interaction with Victor. However, a very fair call out, as I've seen others mention their struggles with some of the inital sales people!

It does seem like Maytal does a lot more "customer coddling," so to speak, which is perhaps something I might be a good candidate for! However, Victor seems to do more cathedral solitaire type settings, which is what I'm after. I've not seen anything from Maytal that is close to what I'm after, although I'm sure she would have no problem executing what I have in mind to an extremely high standard.

Communication is key and if you aren’t getting off on a good foot with Victor, I’d work with someone else.

I tried to work with VC actually - I inquired about a full redesign of my wedding set and the responses I got from his assistant were frankly really unhelpful and borderline rude. I was inquiring about what would’ve been an expensive, bespoke setting and encountered indifference. I moved on.

Glowing reviews don’t mean much against your own personal experience.

Maytal (I’ve not worked with her but considered her for a project) was so sweet and attentive to every question I asked her. Maybe start a conversation with her and see how you feel.

I ended up going with Inken at Enhoerning for my project because she was also extremely detail oriented but would require more design input and is not herself a designer as far as I understand. I know she’s not commonly recommended as the go-to for hand forged work, but her bench is outstanding and she’s extremely receptive to getting into minutia if you want to have more control over the design. But maybe for a first custom project - I’d go with someone like Maytal

 

[Bonfire]

Yay! Congrats on scoring a gorgeous stone!

I can only speak on my experience with Victor. I found him to be very nice and patient and open to ideas in creating my ering re-set. We collaborated on a few design elements, and I changed my mind several times, but the execution was his to create. I was totally fine with that, he’s the master at his skill, not me. He knows all the nuances and I’m not a micromanager. That’s why I wanted him! If you choose to continue with Victor you have to trust his eye and skill. I know he will make you a stunning ring!
If you want more involvement perhaps Maytal would work better for you?

 

[Gone_]

I tried to work with VC actually - I inquired about a full redesign of my wedding set and the responses I got from his assistant were frankly really unhelpful and borderline rude. I was inquiring about what would’ve been an expensive, bespoke setting and encountered indifference. I moved on.

Yep, this exactly

 

[twosanguinehearts]

I’m so surprised by the Victor feedback - I think he’s the sweetest and most talented guy ever!! He’s always been super helpful and knowledgeable and his work is beyond stunning. Have you directly told him that you’d love his recommendation re: all of the details you presented? I read the response you posted as him saying that any combination of your ideas would turn out nicely so he might not realize that you were asking him to pick what he thinks would look best.

 

[yssie]

I’ve got a project with a jeweller right now (not Victor Canera) - my jeweller is very detail-oriented when it comes to execution, manufacture and finish is pristine, but he responds best to a very specific style of communication. My personal preference is for long, detailed emails and lists; I like text because to me it’s unambiguous. The style of communication to which my jeweller responds best is not my preference - he prefers pictures with minimal text.

So we do have a natural communication style disparity. But I love his work and I love working with him, so for me it was an easy decision to change my communication style to better suit his preference. I also use this “picture collage” system with Caysie, WF, and any new vendor until I learn about an alternate preference. With Erika I prefer text and she responds in similar vein.

@Bozman52 I do think Victor can execute the style you want (just going from what you posted on Page 1) very well. But at the same time I’m sure he’s got a number of projects, and perhaps a full design document is simply overwhelming. A case of it’s not what you’re saying, but the way you’re saying it is difficult to digest. Which is an annoying challenge but very easy to fix!! If working with Victor is something you would value, perhaps you could start by identifying the three or four design elements you would most like his input on.

Here’s my recommendation:
1. One page, one-sided. No more. Treat it like a resume not a CV
2. Split that one page up into 4-8 big blocks. In each block, identify one design element you want or one question you have.
3. Structure your opinions and questions in this format: (A) background/context, (B) proposed resolution, (C) what feedback you’re expecting from the vendor (if any is needed).

I’ve attached a collage I did for a pair of studs I had WF make. It was a simple project but I had a number of specifications. WF executed on this perfectly. This pictorial format is easy to understand and makes it easy to keep track of changes in design (make a new collage for every design change).



Perhaps you can try something similar.

 

[Bozman52]

Glowing reviews don’t mean much against your own personal experience.

Real talk right there! Still, Victor is so beloved on this forum that's it's hard to ignore. At the end of the day, I want the best ring I can possibly get. Although people may find the VC sales reps rude, I have yet to see anyone say a thing bad about a completed VC ring.

I did initate a conversation with Maytal a while back when I was getting base line quotes for my setting. She was much more talkative and I got a really good vibe from her. In my gut, she was my top choice initally, but after really digging into Victor, getting all the glowing feedback from PS, and seeing some of the cathedral setting he has done, he just eeked out Maytal. However, if I genuinely don't feel I can communicate with him effectively, then that may swing the pendulum back to Maytal.

If you choose to continue with Victor you have to trust his eye and skill. I know he will make you a stunning ring!

If at the end of the day I just have to let go and let him do his thing, I could potentaily be fine with this. I guess it's just that I don't know how he works and he won't tell me what he does/doesn't need from me. In the absence of direction, I threw him all my detailed ideas. I'm not an expert in ring design and definitely don't want to micromanage the artist, so am happy to just trust his vision if that's what's needed.

I’m so surprised by the Victor feedback - I think he’s the sweetest and most talented guy ever!! He’s always been super helpful and knowledgeable and his work is beyond stunning. Have you directly told him that you’d love his recommendation re: all of the details you presented? I read the response you posted as him saying that any combination of your ideas would turn out nicely so he might not realize that you were asking him to pick what he thinks would look best.

Yes, I've asked for his feedback on my design elements twice now. He did give feedback on one element, which was really helpful and has led to me making a final decision on that element, but there are probably six other elements that are outstanding, to which he said all of them are doable. I've pinged him one final time to try and get clarification, as perhaps he and I are inadvertently getting wires crossed.

If working with Victor is something you would value, perhaps you could identify the three or four design elements you would most like his input on.

This is a really good recommendation. I think you nailed what I was trying to get at- that maybe my method of communication is not what he needs. I guess by asking Victor directly what his process is I was hoping he would tell me how I should provide input to him.

The document I gave him was a combination of pictures with short commentary (very similar to the diagram you show), as well as with some very long winded text discussion. It was broken out by the different sections of the ring: shank, basket, prongs, etc. I thought it would be helpful, but perhaps I need to simplify it further. I know he does a lot of projects and maybe he just can't provide the "coddling" that I personally am looking for, but this may not mean he's the wrong person for me to work with. I'm happy to accommodate him as long as I can figure out how to.

I once asked a question about one of their settings and was told that they do not work with outside stones - which I know is not true.

If I had to make a decision based on the inital interaction I had with the VC rep, I would have ran away. It was abysmal. However, I knew from this forum what Victor is capable of, so I persevered through the rep until I got to Victor directly. Now I'm a bit jaded with Victor as well, which is why I wanted to come back to the forum and check my expectations.

Regarding your stone thing, you are 100% correct that VC will set outside stones because he has agreed to do this for me! In fairness, I did first ask if he could source the stone I was looking for (a H&A cushion), to which he was not able to, so I think this may be why he agreed to set my stone. If I came to him with a stone in hand already, the response may have been different.



Anyway, I've sent him another email that hopefully will clarify things, so I'll see what comes back. I really appreciate all the very quick input from everyone!

 

[Bonfire]

Victor seems to do more cathedral solitaire type settings, which is what I'm after.

Now that you are communicating directly with Victor, I think using the suggestions @yssie offered may be helpful in future correspondence.
The cad setting you posted on page 1 would be crafted to perfection by Victor. It’s important when choosing your craft person that the design you want is within their wheelhouse. This is a slam dunk, you will not be disappointed!

 

[LLJsmom]

So I have met him in person and asked him questions like “can you set it low” and I could not specify how many mm because I didn’t know. He could not tell me exactly how many mm either. He just said yes and I had to trust him that his low and my low were close enough.

I asked him if he could do super small bead prong like “this” pic (I showed him) and he said “yes” and that was it. Short and straightforward.

I wanted a big wide base and he didn’t like the idea but I asked if could make it as big as possible and he said he would make it as big as he thought but still look good. No specific mm’s or pics provided. Again I had to trust him.

So if you are worried about structural stability or something not looking visually pleasing even if it was your idea, and wanting longer descriptions and brainstorming sessions from him that isn’t gonna happen. You would need to trust that he won’t make anything that cannot stand a decent amount of wear and tear. Never have I had durability issues with VC pieces. They might look delicate but they are built like tanks at least for my usage. Visually they are stunning to me so I trust VC’s eye to execute my wants to the extent that it still looks beautiful. But I never had him go through and address my complete 2 page email point by point like I would questions about a tax return like I do for my clients. Given my experience with him I don’t need that. And I did even less of that with Steven Kirsch. These are times when I’ve been most happy with the outcome, when I have trusted more and given up requiring exact answers and lots of explanation. But those are also when I’ve been most nervous during the process. So it’s a balance of what you need to feel good and what you want the outcome to be, and of course this would apply only to certain vendors.

 

[yssie]

So I have met him in person and asked him questions like “can you set it low” and I could not specify how many mm because I didn’t know. He could not tell me exactly how many mm either. He just said yes and I had to trust him that his low and my low were close enough.

I asked him if he could do super small bead prong like “this” pic (I showed him) and he said “yes” and that was it. Short and straightforward.

I wanted a big wide base and he didn’t like the idea but I asked if could make it as big as possible and he said he would make it as big as he thought but still look good. No specific mm’s or pics provided. Again I had to trust him.

So if you are worried about structural stability or something not looking visually pleasing even if it was your idea, and wanting longer descriptions and brainstorming sessions from him that isn’t gonna happen. You would need to trust that he won’t make anything that cannot stand a decent amount of wear and tear. Never have I had durability issues with VC pieces. They might look delicate but they are built like tanks at least for my usage. Visually they are stunning to me so I trust VC’s eye to execute my wants to the extent that it still looks beautiful. But I never had him go through and address my complete 2 page email point by point like I would questions about a tax return like I do for my clients. Given my experience with him I don’t need that. And I did even less of that with Steven Kirsch. These are times when I’ve been most happy with the outcome, when I have trusted more and given up requiring exact answers and lots of explanation. But those are also when I’ve been most nervous during the process. So it’s a balance of what you need to feel good and what you want the outcome to be, and of course this would apply only to certain vendors.

That’s true ^^ In my example picture collage I specified a number of mm measurements, but I really should have chosen a different example because I wouldn’t recommend doing that outside of VERY specific circumstances!!! I can’t edit my post unfortunately but hopefully folks keep reading to here!

 

[Bonfire]

So I have met him in person and asked him questions like “can you set it low” and I could not specify how many mm because I didn’t know. He could not tell me exactly how many mm either. He just said yes and I had to trust him that his low and my low were close enough.

I asked him if he could do super small bead prong like “this” pic (I showed him) and he said “yes” and that was it. Short and straightforward.

I wanted a big wide base and he didn’t like the idea but I asked if could make it as big as possible and he said he would make it as big as he thought but still look good. No specific mm’s or pics provided. Again I had to trust him.

So if you are worried about structural stability or something not looking visually pleasing even if it was your idea, and wanting longer descriptions and brainstorming sessions from him that isn’t gonna happen. You would need to trust that he won’t make anything that cannot stand a decent amount of wear and tear. Never have I had durability issues with VC pieces. They might look delicate but they are built like tanks at least for my usage. Visually they are stunning to me so I trust VC’s eye to execute my wants to the extent that it still looks beautiful. But I never had him go through and address my complete 2 page email point by point like I would questions about a tax return like I do for my clients. Given my experience with him I don’t need that. And I did even less of that with Steven Kirsch. These are times when I’ve been most happy with the outcome, when I have trusted more and given up requiring exact answers and lots of explanation. But those are also when I’ve been most nervous during the process. So it’s a balance of what you need to feel good and what you want the outcome to be, and of course this would apply only to certain vendors.

Perfectly stated!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I'll second some of the recommendations above about how and what to communicate!

When I emailed Victor about the setting in my avatar picture, I basically told him a few things and included a couple of pictures of specific elements he has made before in other rings. But he had never made this exact ring before.

1) cushion halo with bead set diamonds and milgrain edge

2) Tri-wire shank with double buckle a little higher up the shank than he has done before. Tear drop shoulder elements (I am sure I provided a pic of that)

3) gallery with simple fleur-de-lis element (which he has done before)

4) platinum, size 5.75

He replied that he understood what I want and that was the end of the conversation. I trusted his aesthetic on this style ring totally. I didn't specify any height, etc. He's the expert. I encourage you not to try to micro-manage a master ringmaker. One short email with 4-5 points and accompanying photos is all you need!

If you have photos of the elements you want, we maybe could help you communicate it.

Ohhh, and congrats on getting the diamond! You were smart to go ahead and get the AGS grading so it's a signature stone!

 

[Bozman52]

So if you are worried about structural stability or something not looking visually pleasing even if it was your idea, and wanting longer descriptions and brainstorming sessions from him that isn’t gonna happen.

The context of your post is really helpful. I'm absolutely not dictating any kind of mm sizing dimensions to him, it was more about general design ideas. For example, I was looking for his opinion of if the basket uprights be curved or straight. I would expect he had a view on this, but he just said both are possible, which was not what I expected. However, perhaps my expectations are unrealistic and unnecessary.

I'll second some of the recommendations above about how and what to communicate!

Your post echos that of LLJsmom, so clearly there's a pattern here! I may be overshooting the mark with Victor. It will be difficult for me to just give him basic guidance and let him loose, but clearly his end result is always amazing, so this might be something I just need to deal with.

Ohhh, and congrats on getting the diamond! You were smart to go ahead and get the AGS grading so it's a signature stone!

Thank you, it's really nice to at least have the stone part of the ring sorted! The AGS grading was not cheap, but given the price of the stone, the added BG perks, and the fact that I could then list it as a BG Signature on any future insurance claim to ensure I get a comparable stone, it seemed like the sensible thing to do.