Choosing a ring designer: Hannah vs Kirsch vs Canera

[Bozman52]

Hello everyone! I've been lurking for a bit, but this is my first post. The time has come for me to take the next step with my girlfriend and that means I need an engagement ring! Prior to finding this forum, I was relatively knowledgeable about diamonds. If I'm buying any kind of "luxury" purchase (watch, car, shoes, etc.), I will always go down the rabbit hole and learn as much as I can. However, boy did I learn some new things after reading through this forum over the last few weeks!

One big takeaway has been the difference in casting vs hand forging. I didn't even realize that hand forging was still done, but becasue of PS, I'm unquestionably only interested in this for my setting. Also becasue of PS, I'm deeply struggling with deciding on which designer I want to work with to make my setting: Maytal Hannah, Steven Kirsch, or Victor Canera. I know this question is often asked, and from trolling through many, many threads discussing this topic, I've ruled out a lot of other designers, so know that I've not arbitrarily chosen these three.

I'm a very data driven person and I like to make decisions based on objectiveness. Unfortunaley, I'm totally stuck and I feel like all three are equal and I could just flip a coin, but I'd like to be a bit more thoughtful than this, so I'm hoping the lovely folks on PS can help steer me! Although I'm not overly concerned with price (I appreciate hand forging is going to cost a bit), I did reach out to all three with my initial ring design just to see if one was significantly more expensive. All were within $500 of one another, so this isn't meaningful enough to take anyone off my list.

I'll add some 3D renderings of the design I have in mind, but it's not overly ornate or complicated. There is some pave work to be done, but all three designers would be more than capable of producing the ring (as all three are known for their exquisite pave work). I would very much like the designer to help me refine/improve the design more, and I'm very open to altering it based on their professional opinion. Again, I feel all three would do this equally well based on what I've read in the forum.

One thing to note is that none of the designers are able to source a diamond for me, but all have agreed to do the setting anyway (very kind of them!). I want a H&A cushion (1.7 - 2ct), which is apparently like hen's teeth at the moment; I can't even get one cut from rough! An alternative I'm consdiering is an August Vintage Cushion (or similar), and I know that Victor Canera will only put his own vintage cushions into his rings (fair play), so if I sourced one from Distinctive Gem/GOG, then I know I have to write off VC as an option. I'm hoping that I can actually choose a designer first and that he/she will be able to help me with the diamond choice, as this is another place I'm struggling . . . but I digress.

Anyway, if anyone is able to provide insights that may help me definitively choose a designer, I'd love to hear any and all thoughts! Thanks in advance.

 

[LLJsmom]

I have VC and SK. Never tried Maytal but have seen wonderful things.

1. VC solitaire ering with pave band. Excellent, sturdy, solid construction. Never had issues with the pave and even put it into the ultrasonic regularly, once every couple of weeks. Never an issue with prongs either. No snagging sweaters or coming loose. Prongs are slightly less dainty than SK. Very professional and timely. After care has been great.
2. SK, gorgeous and swoopy fluid metalwork for my trellis 3 stone. Prongs - beautiful, dainty, rounded and sharp. Communication- could be better. But also gotta trust him. Later than expected but also during pandemic and shipping crisis. Reasonable prices comparable to VC.
3. Maytal. People seem to love working with her. Seems a little more willing to handhold. Don’t love the baskets of halos, a little scaffoldy to me. Prefer VC and SK but not necessarily relevant to you since you’re not getting a halo. Not sure about long term durability and quality of pave since never owned her pave piece.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Can I ask why you want a cushion? Is that what you have learned that she wants? Is Victor not able to have one of his antique cushions custom cut?
The diamond needs to be worked out first. Then see what your setting options are.

 

[Bozman52]

LLJsmom- I really apprecaite you sharing your experiences with both VC and SK. I feel like this is one of the only times I've heard his communication wasn't perfect. I wouldn't say that I need hand holding, but I definitely get uncomfortable if I'm detached from the process, so this is something for me to consider.

diamondseeker2006- I'm not entirely certain I follow your logic. I don't see why the diamond cut would have any meaningful influence on choosing a designer. I apprecaite the diamond choice can impact the setting design a bit, but I've largely decided on the setting style. Whether I put a round or a cushion in it should have no bearing on whether or not I choose Hannah or Kirsch. However, if I wanted a very vintage, ornate setting, then there may be one designer who does this better than others.

I want a cushion because this is the cut my girlfriend says is her favorite. As I stated in my original post, I'm after a H&A cushion in the first instance and this is the stone that is hard to source right now. The AVC is a potential second option for me and I don't believe these are in short supply, so I'm sure VC could put one in a ring tomorrow. I know that GOG has one sitting on the shelf now that is suitible. This is really something I would hope the designer could help me decide on, though . . . hence why I'm looking for help choosing one.

 

[yssie]

If you do choose an AV or an antique cushion, you might decide you want single cut or lower-coloured melee to complement. Are all designers able and willing to source that melee?

If you choose a modern H&A cushion and your options are very limited, which sounds like the case, you might wind up going non-trivially over or under budget. If you go over on the stone, are all designers able to work within the pricepoint you have remaining?

What if the diamond you fall in love with happens to have visible inclusions near the girdle that would be benefit from being pronged? That sort of thing obviously necessitates changing your design.

Focus on the diamond first. I agree that it’s ideal to work with the same vendor for stone and setting if possible but it sounds like none of your preferred designers can source what you’re looking for? Find the diamond of her dreams first, then worry about the setting.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

The diamond may determine who you can have make the setting. I have had Victor make me several things, and I would personally choose him for an engagement ring. So I asked about the cushion since I know Victor sells antique cushions, and I asked you if Victor is able to custom cut one for you so he could provide the stone and the setting. You replied about AVCs, but you didn't really answer my question about Victor's cushions (he's calling them OMB: Old Mine Brilliants). Both AVCs and Canera OMBs are in low supply other than around the 1 ct mark.

It's wonderful that you are trying to get a cushion since is her preference. There are modern cushions both with organized facet patterns as well as crushed ice, hearts and arrows cushions, and antique cushions (primarily from Victor or Jonathan of Distinctive Gems). Has she seen these varying styles? I am just trying to get a handle on what she thinks of when she says cushion, because these are very different styles. I personally love the antique cushions and would have Victor make the setting. If she likes modern cushions, Victor could source one. I like hearts and arrows in a round, but I personally would not get one in a cushion shape.

What size stone are you looking for (or budget)?

 

[Tryna]

I just this week received my ring from Victor Canera. The center stone is one of his signature antique cut cushions. The side stones are round OEC's from him as well.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CXCEFaJl1C2/

I have not worked with the other two vendors you are considering, but I can tell you that Victor was WONDERFUL to work with. He was patient, fair, helpful, and extremely easy to communicate with. I could not be more happy with my ring. The workmanship is elegant and exquisite.

Best of luck to you in your search. Keep asking questions here, you will get many helpful answers!

 

[ac117]

@Bozman52 I know you’re looking for a 1.7-2ct H&A cushion…not exactly sure what your budget is but wanted to point out that Brian Gavin has a few of them in your desired carat range (if you hadn’t already come across them!)

1.720 F VS2 Select Cushion

Buy diamonds online – GIA graded 1.720 carat F VS2 Cushion cut diamond. Free Shipping and 15 Day Returns!

www.briangavindiamonds.com

2.100 H SI1 Select Cushion

Buy diamonds online - GIA Graded 2.100 carat G VS2 super ideal cut Brian Gavin Select Hearts and Arrows Cushion Cut diamond. Lifetime Upgrade Policy!

www.briangavindiamonds.com

2.180 I VS1 Select Cushion

Buy diamonds online - GIA Certified 2.180 carat I VS1 Cushion cut diamond. Free Shipping and 15 Day Returns!

www.briangavindiamonds.com

2.000 I SI2 Select Cushion

Buy diamonds online - GIA Certified 2.000 carat I SI2 Cushion cut diamond. Free Shipping and 15 Day Returns!

www.briangavindiamonds.com

 

[diamondseeker2006]

@Bozman52 I know you’re looking for a 1.7-2ct H&A cushion…not exactly sure what your budget is but wanted to point out that Brian Gavin has a few of them in your desired carat range (if you hadn’t already come across them!)

1.720 F VS2 Select Cushion

Buy diamonds online – GIA graded 1.720 carat F VS2 Cushion cut diamond. Free Shipping and 15 Day Returns!

www.briangavindiamonds.com

2.100 H SI1 Select Cushion

Buy diamonds online - GIA Graded 2.100 carat G VS2 super ideal cut Brian Gavin Select Hearts and Arrows Cushion Cut diamond. Lifetime Upgrade Policy!

www.briangavindiamonds.com

2.180 I VS1 Select Cushion

Buy diamonds online - GIA Certified 2.180 carat I VS1 Cushion cut diamond. Free Shipping and 15 Day Returns!

www.briangavindiamonds.com

2.000 I SI2 Select Cushion

Buy diamonds online - GIA Certified 2.000 carat I SI2 Cushion cut diamond. Free Shipping and 15 Day Returns!

www.briangavindiamonds.com

I didn't realize BG still sold these. They are very beautifully cut! Looks like this may solve the stone problem! I think these facet up smaller than a H&A round, though, so be aware that a 2 ct may look smaller in comparison to a round.

 

[Diamond_Enthusiast]

BDG also offers custom cutting services. If there isn't a suitable cushion for you in their inventory, you can reach out to them to see if they can cut a modern cushion for you to your preferred specs.

 

[Bozman52]

Oh wow, there's a lot to unpack here! Thanks for the continued responses.

@yssie : All the things you bring up are completely valid on things I may need to alter with the design, but it would seem to me all three designers are very capable of executing these changes. Regarding the melee query, all three designers saw photos of my ring design and said it would be straightforward for them, so I would have expected someone to speak up if they felt they were unable/unwilling to source the additional diamonds, especially since they acknowleged they could not source my main stone.

@diamondseeker2006 : Thanks for the definitive vote of confidence for Victor! I did not specifically enquire with him about his OMBs, but if I decide to move away from the H&A cushion, then I would do so in order to compare inventory/specs/pricing to GOG and Distinctive Gem.

Regarding the cushion aspect of your response, you're opening up a huge minefield that I've already gone through several times over! My girlfriend is not involved at all in this process, other than me secretly obtaining some very basic guidance, as she wants it all to be a surprise. This definitely increases the pressure on me a bit, so I'm taking my own designing liberties with it.

The short is that I want her diamond to be unique. I know it has to be a cushion cut, but I absolutely do not want the typical crushed ice cushion. It's far too mainstream and not a look I personally like. I also don't feel that the cushion brilliants are much better. Light performance is key for me, and the only cushions that actually have proper light performance are H&A cushions. The AVCs are also excellent in this realm, but are obviously a different look altogether.

I don't have a defined budget, but it does seem to keep increasing the more I research things! I started with a 1.5ct in mind, but once I realized that cushions look smaller than rounds of the same carat, I decided I should probably go larger. I'm currently thinking 1.7-2.1ct, I VS2 or better . . . so this puts my diamond budget somewhere between $15k-$25k. I'm set on finding the right stone, not the right price.

@Tryna : Thanks for sharing your new VC ring! I think I actually came across your original post on my own as part of my deep dive on VC's work. It's nice to hear another vote of confidence in Victor. I also see that he used to respond to people on the forum, so that's pretty cool of him.

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

Weighing in on the diamond itself - the BGD ones look beautifully cut, would definitely encourage you to source through BGD! The 2.18ct I VS1 is about 7.5mm square though, which is equivalent to around 1.6-1.7ct MRB, so good call on the size aspect. Personally for me, I VS is just fine, but if you want to go “safer” and budget allows, you can go up to H or G.

As long as all three are able to set a stone you source for yourself, I would have BGD ship the stone you choose to the ring-maker you choose. I haven’t worked with any, so I don’t have a preference, but all three have great glowing reviews so I don’t think you can go wrong! Perhaps check their Instagrams to see if they’ve done a similar ring before with a cushion, to get an idea of how their aesthetic will translate into the final product.

 

[Bozman52]

@ac117 : You sure are quick on the draw! Thank you for tracking down these H&S cushions from BG. I actaully found these about a month ago and reached out to BG to enquire. In the case of the 1.7ct, it's a DeBeers stone from Botswana and was cut by DeBeers, although BG couldn't tell me much more than that, as this stones is not part of their in-house stock. My understanding is that the only H&A cushions DeBeers cuts are from their Forevermark Black Label collection. Honestly, this all feels like marketing nonsense so they can boost the price, so I really couldn't care less what kind of label they slap on it. The SI1 and SI2 stones just aren't clean enough for me, so I crossed those off out of the gate.

The ASETs of the remaining look pretty good to me, but I think they could be improved upon (in my very amateur opinion!). For example, the 1.7 and 2.18 seem to have overly "fat" arrows, so to speak. There is another stone that you didn't list that is possibly my front runner (a 2.12ct), but it has an inclusion almost dead center on the table! So frustrating! (https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/2.120-i-vs2-select-cushion-gia-2195025272)

@AllAboardTheBlingTrain : Thanks for chipping in! I'd be interested to hear your views on the 2.12 above compared with the other BG options.

@Diamond_Enthusiast : Thanks for mentioning the custom cutting offer from BG. I contacted them very early on in this journey about existing stones and have not followed back to see about cutting from rough. I know both Jonathan and GOG were finding it impossible to get any H&A cushions cut from rough at the moment, but I would assume BG has more pull, and potentially a different cutter. I'll ask the question and see what they say.

I've also reached out to JANNPAUL in Singapore, as they have a H&A cushion that is stunning. However, their pricing was pretty difficult to swallow, so I put them on the back burner while I've been exploring other options.

 

[caolsen]

If you do choose an AV or an antique cushion, you might decide you want single cut or lower-coloured melee to complement. Are all designers able and willing to source that melee?

If you choose a modern H&A cushion and your options are very limited, which sounds like the case, you might wind up going non-trivially over or under budget. If you go over on the stone, are all designers able to work within the pricepoint you have remaining?

What if the diamond you fall in love with happens to have visible inclusions near the girdle that would be benefit from being pronged? That sort of thing obviously necessitates changing your design.

Focus on the diamond first. I agree that it’s ideal to work with the same vendor for stone and setting if possible but it sounds like none of your preferred designers can source what you’re looking for? Find the diamond of her dreams first, then worry about the setting.

Listen to this ^ @yssie has been to this rodeo many times. Diamond first, setting second. One designs a ring around the stone, not the other way round. I would say that is the the case even when one is replicating a vintage ring - typically you find the stones and after that, design & build the ring. You asked for data and experience and I think our collection experience would be that unless you’re going to buy a IF or VVS stone, you need to know what imperfections you need to strategize around as you design the setting.

For my two cents, if you want a cushion that stands out from the crowd, then an AVC is a far better way to go. And 1.7-2.1 is a decent range on a cushion, given they way they face up, size wise - is the two carat mark something you’ll care about? And are you thinking more square or more elongated?

And the shape of a cushion’s faceting pattern (where the intersections stop and start when viewed from face up) can, I think, help you determine how large or how pointy you want your prongs to be. Prongs on this type of simple and classic design are frankly the make or break design feature. How do you use the mapping intersections of the lower and pavilion mains to optically direct & balance the placement of prongs can only be answered with the stone in hand.

As mentioned above, the color of the center and the melee is something you need to work out with the vendor but getting the melee from the ring designer should not be a big deal for these terrific options.

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

@ac117 : You sure are quick on the draw! Thank you for tracking down these H&S cushions from BG. I actaully found these about a month ago and reached out to BG to enquire. In the case of the 1.7ct, it's a DeBeers stone from Botswana and was cut by DeBeers, although BG couldn't tell me much more than that, as this stones is not part of their in-house stock. My understanding is that the only H&A cushions DeBeers cuts are from their Forevermark Black Label collection. Honestly, this all feels like marketing nonsense so they can boost the price, so I really couldn't care less what kind of label they slap on it. The SI1 and SI2 stones just aren't clean enough for me, so I crossed those off out of the gate.

The ASETs of the remaining look pretty good to me, but I think they could be improved upon (in my very amateur opinion!). For example, the 1.7 and 2.18 seem to have overly "fat" arrows, so to speak. There is another stone that you didn't list that is possibly my front runner (a 2.12ct), but it has an inclusion almost dead center on the table! So frustrating! (https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/2.120-i-vs2-select-cushion-gia-2195025272)

@AllAboardTheBlingTrain : Thanks for chipping in! I'd be interested to hear your views on the 2.12 above compared with the other BG options.

@Diamond_Enthusiast : Thanks for mentioning the custom cutting offer from BG. I contacted them very early on in this journey about existing stones and have not followed back to see about cutting from rough. I know both Jonathan and GOG were finding it impossible to get any H&A cushions cut from rough at the moment, but I would assume BG has more pull, and potentially a different cutter. I'll ask the question and see what they say.

I've also reached out to JANNPAUL in Singapore, as they have a H&A cushion that is stunning. However, their pricing was pretty difficult to swallow, so I put them on the back burner while I've been exploring other options.

The inclusion in the middle of the table annoys me as well. I feel like I might prefer the 2.18 with the fatter arrows, but that'll depend on how visible the inclusions are in the 2.12. I would ask them to send you a video of the two stones at reasonable magnification so you can directly compare the two. I don't think you can really go wrong with either.

I took a look at the available AVCs and didn't like anything there either. VC also doesn't have any of his in-house cushions available in the range you're looking at from what I can see.

Perhaps exploring the custom-cut route is also not a bad option. It doesn't hurt to ask.

 

[Bozman52]

Listen to this ^ @yssie has been to this rodeo many times. Diamond first, setting second. One designs a ring around the stone, not the other way round. I would say that is the the case even when one is replicating a vintage ring - typically you find the stones and after that, design & build the ring. You asked for data and experience and I think our collection experience would be that unless you’re going to buy a IF or VVS stone, you need to know what imperfections you need to strategize around as you design the setting.

For my two cents, if you want a cushion that stands out from the crowd, then an AVC is a far better way to go. And 1.7-2.1 is a decent range on a cushion, given they way they face up, size wise - is the two carat mark something you’ll care about? And are you thinking more square or more elongated?

And the shape of a cushion’s faceting pattern (where the intersections stop and start when viewed from face up) can, I think, help you determine how large or how pointy you want your prongs to be. Prongs on this type of simple and classic design are frankly the make or break design feature. How do you use the mapping intersections of the lower and pavilion mains to optically direct & balance the placement of prongs can only be answered with the stone in hand.

As mentioned above, the color of the center and the melee is something you need to work out with the vendor but getting the melee from the ring designer should not be a big deal for these terrific options.

I feel like I'm going in circles a bit here, but maybe that's due to my man lizard brain. I completely hear and agree with everyone who has said you can't think about the setting until you have the diamond, but I have effectively done this.

It's going to be either a H&A cushion or AVC. My general setting design is chosen as well: solitaire, cathedral style, pave basket, pave band. Irrespective of the final diamond cut (H&A or AVC), carat, inclusions, etc., all three of the designers I'm looking at are capable of producting this ring and making the necessary adjustments (e.g. prong placement, basket height, melee, etc.) to make it look beautiful.

Therefore, people telling me they can't provide insignts on a designer becasue I don't have the EXACT stone purchased just doesn't compute for me. The major styling decisions that would feed into choosing a designer have all been made at this point. For those still hung up on this, then let's say for the sake of argument that my stone is the 2.12 H&A cushion from BG that I linked to previously. If this is the rock, then who should my designer be?

I think I already know that there is no quantifiable, objective way to determine this, and to a large extent I just need to choose one of the three and run with it, but I thought I should at least actively try to get opinions ahead of flipping a coin. I have gleaned a few good bits from this thread, so I do really apprecaite all the input.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I would get one of the BG stones and use Victor. I understand your thinking because I am an overanalyzer, too!!! But I can tell you that there is nothing wrong with the cut on the BG stones. Those are so highly magnified and they are going to be little when you actually see one! I’ll look back and tell you which ones I’d pick. I also prefer VS or higher.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Ok, the 2.12 is gorgeous. Do you realize how minute that little inclusion will be in real life??? You cannot see it!!! There are no concerns with that stone. I am clarity conscious, too, but I’ve seen enough of these magnified images over the last 16 years to know this stone is ok.

However, my choice of all of these is the 2.18 I VS1! It’s perfectly cut (and no, the arrows are not too large). You get the VS1 clarity for a very small amount more.

I wouldn’t make this complicated when you want this cut the most and BG has two outstanding choices just waiting for you. Have him send the diamond directly to Victor.

I realize you have a setting idea, but I’d recommend looking through designs that Victor had made as some are really beautiful.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

A couple of my favorites (obviously altered for a cushion shape diamond):

 

[carbonfan]

I would echo everything @LLJsmom, @diamondseeker2006, and @yssie have said, as they have given you fantastic advice! I am a huge fan of Victor's incredible artistry and I have done numerous projects with him over the years, so I wholeheartedly recommend him for the setting. If you decide to go the vintage cushion route I would definitely ask Victor if he can custom cut an OMB (one of his trademark CACs) in the size/color/clarity range that you have in mind. I believe that he still custom cuts stones when there is rough available, and keeping the stone and setting with a single vendor is certainly simpler. Regardless, please keep us posted on what you decide!

 

[m-2-b]

I have worked with 2 out of the 3 vendors you mentioned in your initial post. My preference overall is for VC.

I would advise against custom cutting at this time for your particular situation (mentioned earlier by another). You can only request certain specifics on the carat weight/color/clarity for a certain cost. You cannot dictate the location of possible inclusions seen or the exact arrow size within a specific branded cut. There is a scarcity of rough during COVID as well. My custom cut MRB ACA diamond took approximately 4mo. (not sure what your timeline is for proposal) and came with a cost premium.

It seems like the other veteran PS'ers have already pointed in you in the right direction with a few good existing cushion options so I would definitely heed their advice!

 

[Bozman52]

Ok, the 2.12 is gorgeous. Do you realize how minute that little inclusion will be in real life??? You cannot see it!!! There are no concerns with that stone. I am clarity conscious, too, but I’ve seen enough of these magnified images over the last 16 years to know this stone is ok.

However, my choice of all of these is the 2.18 I VS1! It’s perfectly cut (and no, the arrows are not too large). You get the VS1 clarity for a very small amount more.

I wouldn’t make this complicated when you want this cut the most and BG has two outstanding choices just waiting for you. Have him send the diamond directly to Victor.

I realize you have a setting idea, but I’d recommend looking through designs that Victor had made as some are really beautiful.

Thanks for looking through all the stones. Yes, I'm definitely an overthinker in pretty much all aspects of life, so when $20k plus is on the line, it's exponentially worse! I'm glad to hear that you think a couple of hte BG stones are good. I know that inclusion on that 2.12ct will not be visible under normal circumstances, but I'm all about the details and I'll know it's there! Realistically, given my limited choices of H&S cushions, I really shouldn't be getting this particular, but it is a lot of money after all. Thanks for the pics of different settings as well. The more I see the more small ideas I get for my design of ways to improve it.

@carbonfan : Thanks for another vote for Victor. The fact that you've had many good interactions, and not just a one-off, definitely carries additional weight.

@m-2-b : Also another vote for Victor . . . I'm seeing a trend here. Thanks for the input. Noted on your reluctancy for me to go the custom cutting route, especially when you can speak from experience. I'm not under a time cruch per se, but I am starting to get the snide remarks about a proposal, so I know in her mind I'm overdue! Waiting 4 monhts for the stone was not something I anticipated.

 

[yssie]

I’m starting to feel like this thread is leading the horse to water.

but I think they could be improved upon (in my very amateur opinion!). For example, the 1.7 and 2.18 seem to have overly "fat" arrows, so to speak.

I’m going to say this in the nicest way I can come up with right now:
You are conflating your current personal preference with objective analysis. Perfectly okay to have a personal opinion, but you shoot yourself in the foot by believing that it’s factual. If you stick around and learn more you will find that your personal preference will most likely change with time and education.

You aren't going to get an H&A cushion without paying a marketing premium. Because H&A is marketing. Of course, different brands command differing premiums.

There is another stone that you didn't list that is possibly my front runner (a 2.12ct), but it has an inclusion almost dead center on the table! So frustrating! (https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/2.120-i-vs2-select-cushion-gia-2195025272)

The 2.180 VS1 is my vote as well.

 

[Bozman52]

I’m starting to feel like this thread is leading the horse to water.


I’m going to say this in the nicest way I can come up with right now:
You are conflating your current personal preference with objective analysis. Perfectly okay to have a personal opinion, but you shoot yourself in the foot by believing that it’s factual. If you stick around and learn more you will find that your personal preference will most likely change with time and education.

You aren't going to get an H&A cushion without paying a marketing premium. Because H&A is marketing. Of course, different brands command differing premiums.


The 2.180 VS1 is my vote as well.

It's pretty hard to offend me, so don't worry about being candid. I don't agree with your assessment, though. I didn't actually know a H&S cushion even existed until I started down the rabbit hole. Ultimately, I started learning about light performance, largely though videos from Jonathan and JAANPAUL, and discovered the ASET tool. I don't like the H&S cut becasue it has been marketed to me in an ad, but becasue I can see it side by side with other types of cushions and the H&A unquestionably has the best light performance. I actually came into this exercise with an open mind and the data I've seen has shaped my opinion, not the other way around.

From everything I've read, the H&A "look" is a by-product of an exceptional cut. In other words, if you're cutting a stone for absolute light performance, then it will always turn out this way (obviously only true for a small number of cuts- I don't think a H&A pear shape exists!). The H&A thing is used as a marketing tool, and as such can demand a price premium as you say, but that's not why I'm attracted to it. If a crushed ice cushion outperformed a H&A, then I'd be looking for one of these right now instead.

Contrary to your comment about opinons and facts, from all the reading I've done on this site, I would say most of what I've seen are opinions without much data backing it up. This is not uncommon, as I've spent a lot of time on watch forums and find the same thing there. I often hear people say "diamond A is better than B," but I'd actually welcome a deeper analysis as to why . . . and not just saying "B is cut better." There has to be some quantifiable way to measure this. For example, even in this thread people have chosen the 2.18 over the 2.12, but from what I've seen as the "perfect" ASET for a H&A cushion, the 2.12 more closely resembles this, so I would choose the 2.12 all other things being equal. I'd love to understand why no one likes this one . . . and then you're right, perhaps my preference will change once I'm further educated. Again, this might be my man lizard brain, but I can't be TOLD something is better, I need to be shown WHY it is.

 

[Bozman52]

I have worked with 2 out of the 3 vendors you mentioned in your initial post. My preference overall is for VC.

I would advise against custom cutting at this time for your particular situation (mentioned earlier by another). You can only request certain specifics on the carat weight/color/clarity for a certain cost. You cannot dictate the location of possible inclusions seen or the exact arrow size within a specific branded cut. There is a scarcity of rough during COVID as well. My custom cut MRB ACA diamond took approximately 4mo. (not sure what your timeline is for proposal) and came with a cost premium.

It seems like the other veteran PS'ers have already pointed in you in the right direction with a few good existing cushion options so I would definitely heed their advice!

@m-2-b : Other than Victor, are you able/willing to share the second designer you worked with previously? I haven't yet discovered the private message functionality in this forum, so feel free to PM me if it's easier.

 

[molecule]

Just another perspective: some people don't like H&A cushions because it is taking a round look and stretching out the corners. For people that choose shapes other than round because most people have a round, this is not a desired look.

In terms of light performance: one could in theory quantify the amount of leakage in a cut at one angle, but diamonds are a 3D form which moves, so there are additional preferences of the size of the facets (regular, irregular) as well as the reflection from them.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

What we are trying to say is that the ASETs for both the 2.12 and the 2.18 are within the very top cut quality range. The 2.12 ASET is NOT better than the 2.18. There is going to be no visible aspect that will make one more desirable than the other. Since the inclusion in the 2.12 might bother you, I suggested the 2.18 since the cost difference is minimal. I think the video of it is absolute perfection, the ASET is outstanding, it is extremely clean, and will be an outstanding performer. It also is perfectly square at 7.52x7.52mm. I'd buy the 2.18 I VS1 for myself if I were shopping for one. I've never seen one any better.

In addition, I respect that she wants a cushion and you are attempting to get the best possible cut. I don't know of any better cut modern cushion currently available than the BG 2.18 (or 2.12 for lower price).

There is no pm option here. Victor is pretty much known as the best with pave. There are certain things I might buy from the others, but his pave is as good as it gets. He made the ring in my avatar picture.

 

[Tryna]

Correct me if this is not the case across the board, and maybe I'm just extrapolating from my own experience with Victor, but I found there to be a not insignificant financial incentive to purchase the stone from craftsman.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Correct me if this is not the case across the board, and maybe I'm just extrapolating from my own experience with Victor, but I found there to be a not insignificant financial incentive to purchase the stone from craftsman.

All the ringmakers said they would not source a modern H&A cushion for him. They will set the stone he buys (other than VC won't set an AVC).

 

[Tryna]

All the ringmakers said they would not source a modern H&A cushion for him. They will set the stone he buys (other than VC won't set an AVC).

Ah ,sorry I missed that.