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Chameleon Diamonds - what about them and value???

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STOJA001

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Hi.

I got 3 Chameleon Diamonds (not yet GIA certified), but have seen Chameleons before so I'm 100% sure.
Lets say GIA would rate all 3 diamonds to I2-I3 with Fair polish & Fair symmetry - what about value?
The clarity is of course not optional, but would Chameleons be interesting for collectors whatsoever?

0.44 carat Pear - Greenish-Yellow to Vivid Orange
2.11 carat Pear - Greenish-Gray to Intense Orange
3.10 carat Square - Greenish-Yellow to Intense Orange

At the pictures you can see 100% Original color - not enhanced in any way!
But they has a better clarity than shown in the pictures, zoomed at 60x to 100x - I do remove brilliance so the clarity shows up better.
The video camera (capturing) is for some reason off limit when it comes to colors - even if it's capturing in Full HD 1080p...
Maybe some settings only, but cant figure it out; Logitech HD Pro Webcam 910C.

All 3 diamonds has same intensity in color change as pictured.
But shows best for the 2.11 carat Pear in the middle in the video- because the incandescent lamp is headed right over it and at same time heating it - as it heats up, you can see its getting deeper and deeper orange!

When the red glass shows up, it's because I use an UV-lamp with a wave-length over 3000 nm/cm2!
Without the red glass in front, the camera goes blind and so do I.

**edited by moderator. please do not post links to personal videos**

m1309_002a.JPG

m1309_002b.JPG

KGrHqFjME1JZHyMkzBNbhflHHnw0_1.JPG

KGrHqRhIE3vEbkzokBOEYuotbg0_1.JPG
 

STOJA001

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I totally forgot to mention that the 2.11 carat and the 3.10 carat has RED RED RED fluorescence, as the same as seen in unheated/untreated Ruby's! Have tested a lot of different gemstones and diamonds with the red glass just to be 150% sure - doesn't effect any other stones at all! So the color shown is the fluorescence - RED!
 

LD

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Apologies but these do not fluoresce red as I mentioned in my other post. It is easily possible to take a picture of fluor. Buy a UV black light pen from Ebay, then in a semi-darkened room point it at the stone and then take a photo. If you search this forum you'll find many many many photos of fluor of all colours.

In terms of the value of a chameleon? That depends on the strength of the change, the main body colour, clarity, weight, cut etc. To see a few examples but bear in mind these are retail prices, see here http://www.fancydiamonds.net/chameleon_diamonds
 

STOJA001

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Hi. I appreciate your answer!

Yes, I got over 50 diamonds in my collection, I know how to check the fluorescence.
It's to bad it's not allowed to link YouTube videos here, because you'd see it's FLAMABLE red fluorescence!

2 of the Chameleon's has RED fluorescence, but 1 does not.

The red filter used is only between camera and diamonds - not between UV and diamonds of course.
I tried the filter with other diamonds, sapphire's, tourmaline's, demantoid's, ruby's etc, but it does not affect any other stone except the 2 Chameleon's. Trust me, it's RED!

If you search for "Chameleon Diamonds - RED RED RED Fluorescence!" at YouTube you can see by yourself :D

The color change is as pictured, for allt 3 of them.
The 2.11 is showing the effect best in the video - because the lamp is headed at it and heats it up at the same time.
As it gets warmer - the diamond gets brighter and brighter Reddish-Orange.

You cant see it very good at the picture, but in the video it turns NEON RED!

RED.jpg
 

LD

Ideal_Rock
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Hi - I did see your video. You cannot use a red filter to see fluorescence. From the video it appeared that you put the red filter in front of the camera and the blacklight in front of that by the diamonds? You cannot see red fluor in that way. Any gem that fluoresces will appear to fluoresce using this manner but the actual colour of the fluor will be distorted. Please take the filter away, then in a semi-dark room put the blacklight in front of the chameleons and try again.

This gives you more information about the chemical make-up of a chameleon. http://www.gemlab.net/website/gemlab/fileadmin/user_upload/Publications/Chameleon_G_G_2005.pdf
 

STOJA001

Shiny_Rock
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As I told you earlier, I've already tried this as well :)

Just went into a room without any windows, not lights at all.
It's the most decent picture I manage to get, for some reason it looks almost "dull/foggy", maybe it's ment to be...

I did try both, but the square is more Orangish-Red and not very deep.
But the pear has a bright Red Fluorescence.

DSCF0428.jpg
 

dkodner

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Hello STOJA-

Very beautiful diamonds, I hope you enjoy them!

I saw your request for me to answer some answers about fluorescence. I am not an expert in Fluorescence, especially in white diamonds. I cannot tell you that much about orange fluoro in a white diamond, except that it does happen, it is not extremely rare, and that it usually gives the diamond an appearance of being a lower color under normal daylight, which leaves them a little less desirable than say if it had blue fluorescence.

The diamonds you have just purchased could very well be Chameleons, but there is no guarantee that the GIA will call them such on a report until you send them in. The fact that they color change and look like a chameleon is not the only criteria the GIA uses in assigning the term chameleon to the diamond. I have purchased several stones over the last 4-5 years that exhibited all the traits of a chameleon, and yet were still not given the term chameleon after submitting to the GIA. Are your diamonds phosphorescent after exposure to short wave UV light ? this is another test you could use to see if they will get that grade. If they do not, they are likely not a chameleon, even if they color change.

As far as the red fluorescence in the diamonds, red fluoro is not very common, but I have to believe that what you are really seeing is orange fluoro. Orange is not the most common, chalky white to chalky yellow to yellow is the most common, but depending on the level of nitrogen in the stone, the colors can be different. If they really do fluoresce red, it may actually hurt it's grading as a chameleon. It's very interesting, but it will not increase it's value as a diamond. It is very rare in white and colored diamonds that the fluorescence will have a positive effect on it's pricing, even when it should.

Valuing the diamonds can be difficult. If we assume they are Chameleons, you have a couple of things to consider. Most collectors prefer to have a grade no less than deep or dark, with green somewhere in the description. The clarity would also hurt the value of these particular diamonds. Right now the market for Chameleons is very soft, so the values are not as high as they were a couple of years ago. I do that that will change in the future, but now is not a great time to be selling chameleons...I think the first step would be to submit the two larger stones to the GIA and see what they say. There is some great information about Chameleons in the GIA's Gems and Gemology in review book on colored diamonds. If you can find a copy, it would be an invaluable asset as you collect colored diamonds.

Enjoy the diamonds for what they are, they are beautiful, don't worry too much about how rare or valuable, concentrate on what is beautiful to you. If it is beautiful to you, it will likely be beautiful to someone else, and that makes it a stone worth owning.

I hope that helped a little. Best of luck in your collection!

David
 

STOJA001

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Thank you so much for your helpful post! I really appreciate it! :)

With Phosphorescence you mean that the "fluorescence" is hanging on after turning off the UV, right?
I haven't tested this yet actually, I found some information about it tho'.
I will give it a try later this evening.

The color change in the 2.11 carat pear is vibrant - it's chaning from pure Vivid Yellowish-Green to pure Vivid Reddish-Orange.
Please see the attached pictures - before and after heating + UV-light, fluorescence.

Thank you very much!

m1309_002a.JPG

m1309_002b.JPG

DSCF0428.jpg
 

LD

Ideal_Rock
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Many diamonds won't be classed as a "chameleon" as David as quite rightly said. If a diamond has fluor it can contribute to a colour change. To give you an indication, here are photos of mine (GIA classed as a Chameleon). It's a Fancy Deep Brownish Greenish Yellow with a clarity grading of SI1 and strong yellow fluor.

David - just a side note but I bought this a couple of years ago and when I compare the same size/clarity/grading now, I need to add about $5k (surprising to me) so I'm not sure that the prices haven't risen?????? I'm not bothered because I love it but was surprised to see your comment about values being kept relatively low.

Chameleon DBL photo6 after heating.jpg

Chameleon 1.01ct inside electric light_1_1.JPG

Diamond Chameleon13_trim.JPG

IMG_5135.JPG
 

STOJA001

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Your ring is just beautiful, I really like it!
Thank you for sharing pictures :)
Graded cut as CCSMB by GIA I suppose?

I'm getting so confused.....
The more I learn about diamonds, the more confused I get.
I've been reading about Certificates/Reports, and I've always thought GIA was the top-notch Lab worldwide.

I had never heard Gübelin certificate from Switzerland untill today, and I live in EUROPE - kinda strange.
I see some people is recommending GIA and some Gübelin, about 50/50.
Let say I got a billion-dollar diamond - GIA or Gübelin?
 

LD

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GIA for diamonds (including fancy coloured diamonds).

AGL for coloured stones - if you're in the US.
OR
Gubelin - if you're in Europe and don't want to ship to the US
 

STOJA001

Shiny_Rock
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Okay, thank you!
I suppose all valuable gemstones goes to Gübelin then, and all diamonds to GIA.
 

LD

Ideal_Rock
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No not necessarily.

A GIA report for diamonds and fancy coloured diamonds is usually more highly sought after.

AGL is the coloured gemstone favoured report. Gubelin isn't used/seen as much but in my experience is just as good as AGL. If you're selling to the US market then AGL would probably be the preferred lab.

I don't know if you're looking for reports for your own gemstones or to sell on. If it's to sell on and is a valuable gemstone then collectors will (typically) prefer GIA and AGL.
 

STOJA001

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I sell a few to Europe, some to Asia, but almost all is sold to United States.
So then I would choose AGL for Gemstones and GIA for all Diamonds.

Thank you!
 

Pandora II

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Coloured stones, I would use SSEF or Gubelin in Europe and AGL in the USA.
Diamonds - GIA is the best known.

Btw - there is no such thing as a certificate. Labs issue reports and they are not guarantees, they are just a report on a stone stating the opinion of the gemmologist carrying out the tests. It may be that a treament has been applied to a stone which labs are either unaware of or presently unable to detect (for example irradiation in tourmaline) and this may change in the future.
 

STOJA001

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Pandora|1318713272|3041141 said:
Coloured stones, I would use SSEF or Gubelin in Europe and AGL in the USA.
Diamonds - GIA is the best known.

Btw - there is no such thing as a certificate. Labs issue reports and they are not guarantees, they are just a report on a stone stating the opinion of the gemmologist carrying out the tests. It may be that a treament has been applied to a stone which labs are either unaware of or presently unable to detect (for example irradiation in tourmaline) and this may change in the future.
Okay, I would go with GIA and AGL then.
I dont personally like European companies in general no matter what they are carrying, even if I live in Europe myself.
By the way, I has requested some estimates from Bukowski's as suggested! :)

As far as I know, all Colored Diamonds that is graded by GIA has to pass thru 3 or 5 different graders to be approved and they all has to agree on clarity, color, treatment etc for the diamond to be approved. That's why the process takes about 3-5 weeks for colored diamonds.

I ment Report, but in Norway Report/Certificate is the same thing - under same name, my mistake.
 

STOJA001

Shiny_Rock
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Pandora|1318713272|3041141 said:
Coloured stones, I would use SSEF or Gubelin in Europe and AGL in the USA.
Diamonds - GIA is the best known.

Btw - there is no such thing as a certificate. Labs issue reports and they are not guarantees, they are just a report on a stone stating the opinion of the gemmologist carrying out the tests. It may be that a treament has been applied to a stone which labs are either unaware of or presently unable to detect (for example irradiation in tourmaline) and this may change in the future.
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/diamond-carbonado-or-what.167056/#post-3041290#p3041290']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/diamond-carbonado-or-what.167056/#post-3041290#p3041290[/URL]
 

Ella

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