Casey Anthony trial...

[JewelFreak]

Italia,I didn't know all that background of Casey stealing, etc. Yow. There's not wanting to know your kid's a jerk, and then there's being a big fat patsy. Maybe the Anthonys are the latter after all -- and that could be why Cindy fell apart yesterday to the point of vomiting: laying it all out in the trial, she could not deny the mess any longer.

I bet you're right about Zanny = Xanax! Never thought of that. And it's why Baez is always saying Zanny The Nanny, maybe trying to make it seem more like a person & people won't think of Xanax. I can too easily imagine Casey chortling to herself about "Zanny." Good god!

--- Laurie

 

[Arcadian]

I'm watching as much as I can. Thankfully I can watch online so won't be a problem when I travel next week. Yesterday I was just in tears when the grandmother broke down on the stand. those 9-1-1 calls were something else.

Casey is crazy as hell.

-A

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Italia,I didn't know all that background of Casey stealing, etc. Yow. There's not wanting to know your kid's a jerk, and then there's being a big fat patsy. Maybe the Anthonys are the latter after all -- and that could be why Cindy fell apart yesterday to the point of vomiting: laying it all out in the trial, she could not deny the mess any longer.

I bet you're right about Zanny = Xanax! Never thought of that. And it's why Baez is always saying Zanny The Nanny, maybe trying to make it seem more like a person & people won't think of Xanax. I can too easily imagine Casey chortling to herself about "Zanny." Good god!

--- Laurie

I actually only started following this story because it came in on the coat tails of the Drew Peterson case. I was already watching Nancy Grace every night to keep up with that story, and as it was winding down along came this one. Old habits die hard, because I just kept right on watching.

Casey was actually charged with felony theft when she stole Amy Hizingas (sp?) check book, which funded her post-Caylee shopping sprees, tattoos, and whatever else. Casey bragged about being a "good liar" to friends and acquaintances. And I really do believe she thought she was a very convincing liar. I think she figured people would find her to be an attractive, young mother who had this terrible tragedy happen to her, excuse away her actions as being those of someone who was scared and confused and in over their head. I believe Casey thought the whole world was as gullible as her immediate circle, and ergo would believe her carte blanche. I doubt she ever thought someone would call her out on her BS and then unweave the lies.

I find it hard to pass judgement on George and Cindy. I think they had blinders on, for sure, when it came to their daughter. They gave her way to much credit and so much rope she hung herself. But, I think so much of that was because of Caylee. Casey is manipulative and cold, she's very egocentric. I do believe that if either George or Cindy had been the heavy, even once, and held Casey's feet to the fire over her antics, Casey would have taken her daughter and vanished. Robbed her parents blind, first, of course. But, she would have been gone. I think George and Cindy picked the devil they knew, over the devil they didn't. They dealt with Casey because they sincerely loved their grandchild.

I think the Zanny the Nanny thing is probably spot on, a code word for Xanax. Casey figured ways to pacify the child so she could carry on with her boyfriends, and probably did drug her child when she had no other options. She didn't want to be a mom, no matter what she says now, she just didn't. Baez will stand up and ask every witness the same questions, about whether Caylee was malnourished, beaten, abused, neglected. I think, in his mind, if they answer "no, no, no, no, no" to those things the jury will paint Casey in the light of a loving mother...it makes me sick.

 

[holly sparkle]

I'm watching as much as I can. Thankfully I can watch online so won't be a problem when I travel next week. Yesterday I was just in tears when the grandmother broke down on the stand. those 9-1-1 calls were something else.

Casey is crazy as hell.

-A

Agree with this.

I feel sorry for her family. In the beginning they really seemed to believe whatever Casey was telling them but I think finally they have come to see that she isn't as innocent as she was letting on.

31 days missing and she didn't think to contact the police. WHAT????!!!!!!!!!!! Disturbing.

 

[texaskj]

So is Casey a sociopath or NPD? (Narcissistic personality disorder) If I remember, NPD usually doesn't include violence.

 

[ksinger]

So is Casey a sociopath or NPD? (Narcissistic personality disorder) If I remember, NPD usually doesn't include violence.

We had a person in our family with NPD (undiagnosed formally of course, since they never go in for treatment since there is clearly nothing wrong with them and they are usually only diagnosed by the characteristic damaged family members that end up in the therapist's office) and knowing her and the characteristics of someone with NPD, I'd vote for the sociopath. You're right that NPD'ers aren't generally violent. In fact, threatening them WITH violence is sometimes the only way to get them off your back. This was an aunt of mine, and my cousin at the age of 14 and sorely stressed by this mother, finally lashed back at her in a rage and kicked mom in the shin. Mom finally learned the limit then, and tippy-toed around her a bit after that. Sad that it came to that though.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

I read the definition of both NPD and Sociopathic Behavior...she fits both in a lot of ways.

However, I tend to think that she's probably more of a Narcissist than a classic Sociopath.

Casey wanted love from men, she chased it. She had problems with parenting (obviously). While Narcissists tend not to be violent, I don't think Caylee's death was "violet" in so much as blood, guts and gore.

The below link about "NPD" reads like a check list.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001930/

ETA:

She also reads as a Sociopath according to this link...

http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

Maybe she is both....

 

[texaskj]

Some psych student could do a thesis or dissertation on this family. I learned about NPD while getting divorced from one.

 

[ksinger]

Some psych student could do a thesis or dissertation on this family. I learned about NPD while getting divorced from one.

Yep. The only thing you can do with a close family member who has NPD, is to LEAVE. As fast as possible. Remove yourself from their presence, because you aren't EVER going to change them.

Sorry you had to go through that. This aunt created so much havoc for so many years in my mom's family...

 

[texaskj]

Thanks ksinger. You're right about leaving. (Gratefully I could because we never had kids.) I think poor Cindy is finally facing what her daughter really is and it ain't pretty. And could you imagine the guilt if it's true she talked Casey into keeping the baby?

 

[lizzyann]

Italia, thanks for the Cliff Note version! So, I get that Cindy has supported her daughter thru this, but does she support her now? Meaning does she think she is guilty or not? When did this George and the pool drowning theory materialize? I guess I'm just having a hard time putting the pieces together from July 2008 till now. I guess I just find it convenient that all of a sudden now that she is at trial the "pool drowning theory" materializes. I wonder if George and Lee knew in advance of the trial that Casey was alleging sexual abuse.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Italia, thanks for the Cliff Note version! So, I get that Cindy has supported her daughter thru this, but does she support her now? Meaning does she think she is guilty or not? When did this George and the pool drowning theory materialize? I guess I'm just having a hard time putting the pieces together from July 2008 till now. I guess I just find it convenient that all of a sudden now that she is at trial the "pool drowning theory" materializes. I wonder if George and Lee knew in advance of the trial that Casey was alleging sexual abuse.

No one really knows if Cindy is still supporting Casey. 6 weeks ago was the major sit down between the family and the defense team when Baez leveled the blow of what their defense strategy was going to be--the sexual abuse, drowning. So yes,it's suspected that they knew. Since then, the Anthony's haven't been talking. However, if you recall Cindy's testimony, she said she just learned Zanny wasn't real, and she has stopped looking for her, which would correlate with Baez dropping the bomb. My thoughts would be that Cindy is distancing herself from her daughter, but until the trail is over and the family publicly speaks again, it's anyone's guess.

The pool thing is interesting, in so much as, it was bounced around in the beginning.

Cindy Anthony arrived home the day after Father's Day (June 16th) and found the pool ladder propped up against her swimming pool as well as the gate to her property open. She questioned George, Lee and Casey...did they go swimming and leave the ladder in place? They all denied it. So, Cindy was concerned that someone was swimming in her pool without her permission. She was so concerned that she mentioned this to her co-workers...like "hey, someone is sneaking onto my property and swimming, can you believe the nerve!"... This event would eventually be relayed to the police when co-workers were interviewed, and of course, it became public knowledge.

Sometime later, when Casey was in prison and the theorists started trying to figure out what happened to the baby, one idea was that Caylee drown in the pool. Cindy mentioned this to Casey during a prison visit--and there are tapes of the conversation which will be introduced into evidence soon. Cindy sobbed into the phone saying that people were reporting Caylee was dead and that she drown in the pool. Casey's verbal retort was "surprise, surprise" or something along those lines. Very blase, no inflection at all.

So, the theory was out there pretty early on. But, seriously, at the time Casey acted like it was no big deal. No shock, no hint that the speculation was hitting close to home. Nothing. She was completely dead pan. But, as it turns out for the defense, it was a stroke of luck. Baez was able to take that and spin this whole accident scenario from it, basically creating his whole case on it's coattails.

 

[Laila619]

I've been watching.

I found the cadaver dog testimony fascinating! Interesting that two different cadaver dogs both found a spot of interest in the Anthony backyard.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

I've been watching.

I found the cadaver dog testimony fascinating! Interesting that two different cadaver dogs both found a spot of interest in the Anthony backyard.

It's very interesting. So sad that one of the dogs was killed in the line of duty .

I think Baez made a crucial mistake with attacking the validity of the dogs.

1. Because if Caylee did pass in the back yard, then naturally the dogs would hit on that. Not so far fetched IMO. But, he didn't really take the route, of course, because the defense is a joke.

2. People love animals. A real animal lover would be totally turned off by what he was saying...

 

[Autumnovember]

At my psych clinical rotation today, we actually talked about NPD. They're in talks of taking it out of the DSM completely, interesting. I would love to hear what Axis diagnoses she would get. Very very interesting.

 

[Laila619]

I've been watching.

I found the cadaver dog testimony fascinating! Interesting that two different cadaver dogs both found a spot of interest in the Anthony backyard.

It's very interesting. So sad that one of the dogs was killed in the line of duty .

So sad.

 

[Tuckins1]

IMHO, that woman it's friggin nuts. She deserves whatever penalty she gets when she's found guilty. And she will be found guilty. I've watched bits and pieces and she seems so cold and disconnected... I can't imagine being so calm if my precious son was missing and presumed dead....

 

[JewelFreak]

Italia, your take on the Anthonys & having blinders on was really perceptive. I do feel sorry for Cindy A. -- she hit the brick wall on Casey & can't deny the evil anymore. It's just destroying her. I hope someone keeps an eye on her for quite a time -- she's a candidate for suicide once the urgency of the trial is over. Whatever the verdict is.

Narcissists can become violent given the right pressures or stimuli (who can't?). Jeff McDonald is an example: he's been diagnosed NPD. He had a wife, 2 kids & another on the way, none of which he wanted, and took a large amount of speed to enable him to do multiple night shifts at the hospital & a part-time job at another hospital. Shrinks theorized at the time of his trial that the drugs, added to other pressures, pushed him into exploding & stabbing them all.

Casey Anthony is more chilling the more I hear at this trial. She chloroformed that baby -- chloroform burns skin if something soaked in it is held to the face; it must have hurt Caylee before she went out. Then, to wrap that child's face: eyes, nose, mouth, in duct tape...agh, the image haunts me. I'll venture some pop psychology here: wrapping her face as a way to "erase" her from Casey's life.

--- Laurie

 

[luv2sparkle]

I heard a couple of 'experts' say on the Today show that there is not enough evidence to convict her and they would personally acquit.
Wow.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Yes, the defense attorneys have been having a field day with the this CIRCUMSTANTIAL case.

The fact is, there isn't a ton of evidence that puts the death of Caylee directly on Casey in a tangible sense. No one found her mid-cholorfoming, no one who saw her lugging the body of Caylee, no one say her bury the baby in the woods. BUT...with that said...the experts are trained in specifics, the ins and outs of the legal system, and the jury is not.

The jury is made up of free thinking, intuitive, real people who aren't, probably, legally savvy. They will hear the evidence and the defense and make their own decision, free from the a lot of what weighs on the analysts mind.

I don't believe she's innocent. Not in the least. I think she murdered her daughter and would do it again, only more deviously, given the chance. She has no guilt and no remorse. She is cold and calculated, and what bothers me...probably most of all...is something that hasn't gotten much press...in her jail house letters she discussed that, upon her release, she'd like to adopt more children. How effing sick is that? So sick. As if anyone would entrust a baby to her. But, just the fact that she considers more children a part of future makes me physically ill.

 

[Laila619]

I heard a couple of 'experts' say on the Today show that there is not enough evidence to convict her and they would personally acquit.
Wow.

Really? That's crazy to me!

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Did anyone watch today? I missed it. But I heard that Casey got ill after seeing the skeletal remains of Caylee and court was called early.

I'm sure that the reality of her baby's death was very poignant for her this morning. The pictures were supposedly up all day long and in her face. It's my feeling that the baby was chloroformed and tapped up as well as wrapped up when Caylee was still alive. I think at which point Casey detached herself the situation mentally and just handled what needed to be handled, which is why the stench in the car was so hideous, because she probably couldn't "dispose" of the evidence until circumstances forced her too. Today was probably her moment of clarity in a very, very long time...facing what she had done.

George and Cindy left court when the pictures were entered into evidence. They couldn't watch that. I don't blame them.

There is also a part of me, judging Casey, that wonders if today wasn't a ploy. I'm sure that sounds awful...but Baez may have encouraged her to save her break down for this moment. I think she's a big enough scammer to actually think something like that up...

 

[Circe]

Did anyone watch today? I missed it. But I heard that Casey got ill after seeing the skeletal remains of Caylee and court was called early.

I'm sure that the reality of her baby's death was very poignant for her this morning. The pictures were supposedly up all day long and in her face. It's my feeling that the baby was chloroformed and tapped up as well as wrapped up when Caylee was still alive. I think at which point Casey detached herself the situation mentally and just handled what needed to be handled, which is why the stench in the car was so hideous, because she probably couldn't "dispose" of the evidence until circumstances forced her too. Today was probably her moment of clarity in a very, very long time...facing what she had done.

George and Cindy left court when the pictures were entered into evidence. They couldn't watch that. I don't blame them.

There is also a part of me, judging Casey, that wonders if today wasn't a ploy. I'm sure that sounds awful...but Baez may have encouraged her to save her break down for this moment. I think she's a big enough scammer to actually think something like that up...

Good lord, that's a horrifying possibility. Italia, why do you think so? I haven't been following the case as closely as some of y'all, but most of the reports I've read have speculated that she freaked out and hid the baby after the drugging went wrong - why do you think she'd deliberately bury her alive? (If it's pure insanity ... duly noted. I agree that something about this woman is deeply off.)

 

[JewelFreak]

Italia, I agree. You're a perceptive soul. She is a scammer extraordinaire & it would be typical for her to break down now. I think she chloroformed the baby, then taped her up -- probably didn't take more than a minute for her to die, so little she was. If Casey truly was stressed out today, it was because this is something she can't wiggle out of.

That bit about adopting kids is more baloney. It sounds good, so she wrote it. The whole situation is so tragic for all associated with her; she has wrecked their lives. They'll never heal.

--- Laurie

 

[Laila619]

I watched.

Casey's crying was totally fake IMO. She didn't actually have any tears coming down, she just kept covering her face with her hand and wiping her face with a tissue.

What a sad day today.

 

[lizzyann]

oh my gosh! I'm two days behind in watching trial footage. I'll try to catch up tonight! Italia, were the examiners ever able to find cause of death?

 

[OUpearlgirl]

oh my gosh! I'm two days behind in watching trial footage. I'll try to catch up tonight! Italia, were the examiners ever able to find cause of death?

No they never determined a cause of death, but her body was found with duct tape across her nose and mouth.

Casey is a sick, sick individual. She had no tears today, but pretended to cry all day long. I'm not buying it for one second.

 

[lizzyann]

yeah, that girl has LIED since this whole thing started. I still haven't pieced together exactly how that poor baby died but Casey was responsible IMO. The cadaver dog finding something in the backyard has me baffled. Thoughts?

 

[shihtzulover]

I haven't been following the trial very closely, other than watching the bits and pieces that are shown on the news. I did follow the story back when Caylee was missing though, before then even found her body.

If Caylee died accidentally, either from being drugged with chloroform or by drowning in the pool, why would she have duct tape over her nose and mouth?! That just doesn't add up to me. How can they even use the drowning story as a defense, given the evidence?

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Good lord, that's a horrifying possibility. Italia, why do you think so? I haven't been following the case as closely as some of y'all, but most of the reports I've read have speculated that she freaked out and hid the baby after the drugging went wrong - why do you think she'd deliberately bury her alive? (If it's pure insanity ... duly noted. I agree that something about this woman is deeply off.)

I guess I don't see the point in duct taping the baby up if the death was an accident? I think she chloroformed the baby because it's a very hands off form of murder. She's not physically shooting, stabbing, smothering...the baby is passed out...she never had to live through seeing the life drain out of the child. It was, all things considered, very removed. She then cut of the air flow to the child via tape, and triple bagged the Caylee, placed her in the trunk (out of sight, out of mind) until the odor forced her to take further action.

Casey Anthony did not want to be a mother, she hated her mother for making her become a mom...she killed two birds with one stone, as morbid as that sounds. I think most people speculate the death was an accidental drug overdose because the other alternative is just really bone chilling, and people--despite what we know about human nature--have a hard time considering someone to be a monster of that degree, let alone a mother. But my gut tells me she debilitated her child often, and eventually decided to just be done with the whole thing. I believe, totally and entirely with all evidence and back story considered, Casey to be just that sort of monster.

If it was an accident, that girl is not the type to suffer in silence. She wouldn't subject herself to 3 years in jail and a death penalty case if she had an easier out. Her backs against the wall, she murdered her child with full intent to do just that. It just can't be anything else when you consider who she is and what she's about.