Cartier Diamond Ring Inquiry

[lars888]

Had my Cartier Diamond Engagement Ring Appraised by a local jewelry store..

18kt white gold Cartier diamond engagement ring, size 6 weighing 1.7 dwts. The mounting has 14- 2pt full cut round diamonds, 7 on each side of the center stone, approx. color is G approx. clarity is SI1. All stones are bead set bright cut. The cetner stone is a full cut round brilliant .80ct diamond, approx. color is I/J approx. clarity is VVs2; polish and symmetry is very good.. cut is excellent.

ALL MEASUREMENTS ARE TAKEN WITH STONES ALREADY SET IN TO MOUNTING.

$5,350

Now I am not happy with this at all, first of all it was retail at over 10k, and the appraisal doesn't say anything about the engraving within the band, Cartier and the serial number etc, and why does it say approx for clarity and color?

I did not read the actual appraisal until I left..

Paid 70$ for the appraisal did I get ripped off..?
I took it so another jeweler right after and although she didn't appraise it she took a look at the diamond with me explained some things and told me she would list it for 5k$ on ebay but how am I going to do that if the appraisal was for $5,350? She told me some appraisers list wholesale value and some list retail value when it was purchased for insurance sake vs selling..

Any advice how to sell for top dollar?

 

[lars888]

https://www.1stdibs.com/jewelry/rin...Rgaro1JOK9vHO857MmAaAqp8EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

The center stone on the 1st Dibs website is a 0.81 ct GIA F VVS1 XXX.

How is mine $4000 cheaper if its a VVS2?

Here are two pictures sorry they are the best I was able to take for now.

 

[yssie]

The fact that it is a Cartier piece adds a tremendous amount of value. That this is not noted on your appraisal certainly sounds like negligence on your appraiser's part - you did not get the evaluation you paid for... Unless he/she had reason to question its authenticity, or there is more backstory to this post than has been revealed thus far?

There's no such thing as "wholesale Cartier" - retail replacement value is retail replacement value. It isn't like you can go to an alternate manufacturer or source for a better deal

 

[lars888]

What do you mean there is more back story? I went into the jeweler store today let him see the ring, he cleaned it and took a look at it under a huge microscope and shouted out the specs to someone typing it out on the computer. I have the appraisal sheet sitting in front of me now and on the right it says APPRAISED VALUE: Diamond Engagement Ring: $5,350

My question is if its actually negligence on jewelers part what should I do about it? I was recommended to go see him by my roomates co-worker whose dad owns the store and he knew this when I went to see him.

Also why does it say approx for the clarity, color and cut? Does that mean hes not sure? Again it's sensitive because its my roomates connect but I think my ring is worth more and again I am not happy with the appraisal

Whats the best way to continue?

 

[lars888]

@yssie it also does say 18kt white gold Cartier in the description...

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

Use your original document, supplied by Cartier at point of purchase, as a selling tool. Does your diamond have an inscription?

cheers--Sharon

 

[lars888]

@canuk-gal I don't have original box or papers or I wouldn't have even bothered with the appraisal.

I'm not sure if the diamond has an inscription but engraved inside the band says

Cartier 750 (C) 53 QC**** <> AU750 .807ct

(C) is a copyright symbol or Cartier symbol
**** are four numbers (not sure if its okay to post it?)
<> is another symbol with some markings inside

Hope this makes sense, cheers!

 

[Snowdrop13]

The ring on 1st Dibs comes with a Cartier box and a GIA certificate, all of which helps to provide provenance.

There will also be some price difference between an I/J and an F colour diamond.

How much were you hoping to sell it for? Are you disappointed by the value given by the appraiser?

 

[lars888]

@Snowdrop13 a $4000 price difference? I'm 99% sure this ring is authentic Cartier meaning it was purchased from a Cartier store

Also anyone want to try to answer my questions about the actual appraisal?

 

[yssie]

@yssie it also does say 18kt white gold Cartier in the description...

My mistake, I missed this detail.

 

[yssie]

Cartier will not authenticate, formally or informally, unless you can prove you're the original purchaser.

Given that you stated you're 99% certain it's authentic (and not 100%)... you are going to need proof of authenticity to sell the piece with a Cartier pricetag. The best you're going to get is to have it polished/repaired (not an in-boutique cleaning, but service it must be sent to workshop for) - your service receipt is the proof that buyers will demand. This will cost a few hundred dollars and will take a few weeks.

What I'm getting at is... it's either authentic or it's not. If it is, it's worth a lot more than a "generic" ring with similar stats. If you're not 100% certain it's authentic then for all practical purposes it is not - and should be priced as such.

Do you have any paperwork on this ring whatsoever? If not it's no surprise the appraisal lists an approximate colour/weight - how is he/she supposed to accurately measure colour and weight of a mounted stone? Unless, as @canuk-gal asked, the diamond itself is inscribed with a report number. It sounds to me like the appraiser was unconvinced of authenticity and issued replacement value accordingly. The markings inside the shank do not, unfortunately, prove anything.

 

[Octo2005]

Yes , I agree with you that it is a subpar appraisal. But it is pretty typical of what I would expect from a Jeweler store. There is a resource page on the forum that will provide a list of accredited independent appraisers in your area. I would recommend using one of them and letting them know that the appraisal is to establish value because you intend to sell.

Cartier or not, you will not get what was paid for the ring when selling on the second hand market.

 

[lars888]

@Snowdrop13 Yes I am disappointed at the price given by appraiser. I was hoping to sell for 4-5k and since its appraised at 5k it makes it hard

 

[lalala]

Also why does it say approx for the clarity, color and cut? Does that mean hes not sure? Again it's sensitive because its my roomates connect but I think my ring is worth more and again I am not happy with the appraisal

Is says approx because diamonds are graded face down and you cannot grade them with 100% accuracy when they are set.

 

[Octo2005]

And as @yssie pointed out, without paperwork of some kind from Cartier, it will be difficult to prove authenticity and doubt that any appraiser will be willing to say anything other than it is engraved with Cartier xxxx

 

[Bron357]

Appraisals can come in 3 forms - 1. Replacement retail value, 2 Insurance valuation (usually 10% more because insurance companies will demand at least a 10% discount from a vendor if they are settling an insurance claim). 3. Market value - what you can actually expect to receive.
I suspect the jeweler knowing you intend to sell has given you no 3.
In terms of value, irrespective of what number someone puts on a piece of paper, what you get is what someone, at that time, is prepared to pay.
Your ring may be Cartier, but without the paper of authenticity (and a box) it is not going to sell for the same price as one that has it. So your ring is worth more than a “standard” 18ct white gold diamond set ring (of these specs) but less than the authenticated version. And people do expect to get “proof” for paying a “premium”.
The other is ring advertised for $4,000 more but it isn’t “sold”. That seller can “ask” whatever price they choose but at the end of the day, it’s what someone is prepared to pay.
I’d take your ring to another jeweler, explain you want a valuation for insurance purposes or replacement retail value, mentioning that you believe currently similar Cartier rings are circa $10,000 and see if you don’t end up with a higher valuation. Again, this will not necessarily increase the $$$$ you can expect to receive.
And unless you send your diamond to the GIA or similar (it will have to be removed from the ring first to properly assess it ) which is more expensive and time consuming, only an estimate of size, colour and clarify can be given while the diamond is mounted.
Don’t forget that eBay and PayPal fees will cost you around 13% of the sale and shipping value.

 

[lars888]

Thanks @Bron357 that was very helpful.. but based off the appraisal I got which values it at 5,300, I basically would only be able to list it on ebay for 3k? You recommend me to go to another jeweler and have it appraised again for around 10k? I see some similar rings on ebay selling for way more!

 

[ringo865]

You see them listing for way more. You don't know what they're selling for.

And you still don't have a receipt or a box, so yours is not authenticated.

 

[Snowdrop13]

You can look through the “sold” listings on eBay using the Advanced search tool. I had a quick look through the Cartier diamond rings, they are mostly Love and Trinity pieces, though. I did see this one, which has no box or papers, a bit smaller than your one;

https://www.ebay.com/itm/FREE-FAST-...411943?hash=item3af7cb7f67:g:Q4kAAOSwVtZZ~Ich

 

[tyty333]

Why do you need an appraisal to list the ring at a higher price? What do you want to list the ring at? Why dont you list it at $6.5k...put it up for best offer.
He gave you the resell value of the ring on the second hand market. ($5350) You were hoping to get $5k so that sounds reasonable.

I would think that people who are into the Cartier name would know if it is a good deal or not. Having a fake retail value doesnt really "win" people over IMO.

$5k is a lot of money to most people so it will take a while to sell. Be careful of all the scams out there on ebay.

I do think the appraiser should have noted the contents of the inside of the ring on your appraiser.

 

[tyty333]

Since there are not many "sold" examples of Cartier why dont you do a search on sold Tiffany (I consider Tiffany a step down from Cartier).
You have to take into account if the listings have Tiffany papers/diamond papers/receipts (They are worth something.)
Might give you a good idea of what things are selling for.

 

[doberman]

I'm just a little confused that you're 99% sure that the ring is a Cartier, but have no paperwork or box for it. When selling designer goods, it's all about provenance. There are a lot of fakes out there. Also, diamonds are graded table down and not in a setting, thus the I/J approximation given by your appraiser. With regard to the Cartier ring on 1stdibs, there's a very substantial difference price-wise between an F color diamond and a J color diamond. What also confuses me is the 18kt white gold. I did not think Cartier did 18kt wg for e-rings, only platinum or 18kt yg. I'm probably thinking of another jeweler.

 

[ratatat]

I think Tiffany’s only does platinum and 18kt yg

 

[yssie]

You recommend me to go to another jeweler and have it appraised again for around 10k?

No. We are recommending that you get some paperwork from Cartier to prove authenticity, because I sincerely doubt any appraiser will be willing to stake his reputation on your ring without this paperwork, and more critically, no savvy end-buyer is going to pay a Cartier premium without this paperwork.

But feel free to ignore us because we aren’t saying what you want to hear

 

[JoJa12345]

Did you purchase the ring from a Cartier boutique or know the person who did? If so you can easily get documentation from them. When I insured my love bracelets I called my SA and she sent me an insurance valuation (I believe that is what it is called), it had all the specs of the bracelet (serial # and replacement value, or current selling price). It was provided to me at no additional cost.

 

[lalala]

How did you acquire this ring? I'm under the impression that you did not purchase it as you are only 99% sure it's authentic.

Did you purchase it second hand without paperwork?

 

[MollyMalone]

Here's my immediate suggestion: take the ring back to the local jewelry store & ask them to carefully scrutinize, under the microscope, the girdle of the center stone to look for the lasered inscription of the GIA report number, which will look similar to this (albeit possibly fainter):

I've been trawling eBay periodically in hopes of finding the simpler Cartier Ballerine in my size (and at a price I'm willing to pay) that I could use as the setting for a colored gem. And the eBay listings that inspire confidence -- because they include, e.g., the Cartier Certificate of Authenticity with a serial number that corresponds to the one engraved inside the ring shank & a GIA lab report for the center diamond (with a carat weight also corresponding to the one inside the shank) -- all indicate that the GIA lab report number is also lasered on the center diamond.

Here's an example of a Cartier 1895 ring listing that has all the appropriate paperwork, except for the original sales receipt. See how on the GIA report (6th photo in listing) it says that the diamond's lab report # is entered into GIA's Laser Inscription Registry?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/CARTIER-So...num-0-44ct-E-VVS2-GIA-Certified/262563085667?

Using the lab report number inscribed on the girdle, you can use GIA's Report Check feature & see a copy of the lab report on the center stone diamond before it was mounted:
https://www.gia.edu/report-check-landing
Hopefully, this way you will obtain GIA's assessment of carat weight, color, and clarity that the local jewelry store could not provide (understandably enough since they were viewing the mounted stone). They, or if you decide to next take the ring to an independent, credentialed appraiser, should provide with a photo of the laser inscription on the girdle to serve as documentation.

Better still if the GIA lab report also indicates that Cartier's ring serial number is also engraved on the diamond -- & that matches the number engraved on the shank (and shown on the Certificate of Authenticity, if you had one) as depicted in the photos for this ring:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/8-000-Cart...d-GIA-Solitaire-Engagement-Ring/162549147697?
But this ring's diamond was graded by GIA almost 20 years ago & I've not seen that kind of notation re the Cartier serial number also etched into the diamond in more recent reports.

 

[Bron357]

Going through eBay, the similar Cartier ring to yours, as a solitaire, comes with GIA and all certification BUT it’s not sold. What people ask for isn’t what things necessarily sell for. On the eBay sold listings, as a guide, a Tiffany .88 carat solitaire in platinum with your same clarity and colour (I) with paperwork sold for US $4,000. I would say that the Cartier ring on eBay listed at $6,500 odd is worth more than the Tiffany ring (sold example) but not $6,500. More like $5,200 to actually sell now. Someone might eventually come along and offer around $5,800 which the seller will probably accept.
Without the Cartier box and paperwork and / or a GIA certificate, your ring is not going to realize $5,000 in the near future, I would think around $3,500.
A “no name brand” .80 carat diamond ring brand new, same colour and clarity as yours on eBay is currently around $3,200.

 

[Krisking]

Linking for completeness:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/cartier-diamond-ring-inquiry.235556/

 

[kenny]

Based on your posts, you did not buy this ring new at Cartier.
Where, and how, did you get it?
How long ago, and what did you pay?
How do you know it's not counterfeit?
The onus is on you to prove it's authentic Cartier.
If you can't, forget about selling it for an authentic-Cartier (with box and documentation) price.

You're unhappy the appraisal gives only approximations of grades.
But prongs may be covering inclusions and chips.
Since diamonds are tiny boxes of windows and mirrors reflecting their environment, the setting may influence color.
Grading the color, clarity and even measuring the carat weight is only possible when a diamond is loose.
When a diamond is set you can only get an opinion on the approximate weight, color and clarity.

I don't blame the appraiser for not going to go on record that it is authentic Cartier without documentation.
They know there are good counterfeits and don't want to be sued if it turns out to be a counterfeit.

Next, diamonds are not a commodity like gold or platinum.
Such commodities do not have retail and wholesale prices, or new and used prices.
Diamonds do.
Precious metals are sold at a universally-agreed-to price whether you're buying or selling, plus a relatively small transaction fee.

Stores/vendors/jewelers sell at retail.
Members of the public sell at wholesale, which might be around half of retail.
Think of a new car depreciating the second you drive it off the lot just because it's not new any more.

I take appraisals with a huge grain of salt to put it nicely.
I've bought several new diamonds from fine vendors.
Every one came with a vendor-commissioned so-called appraisal stating the diamond is worth 40% more than I just paid them.
HUH? GMAB! Whatever!

I can tell that people here are not saying what you want to hear.
Sorry, but when you don't have accurate information education sometimes is dissapointing.
But now, better-informed, you can bring your expectations in line with reality so your ring doesn't languish for sale for ever at an unrealistic price.

Also, you might consider being a bit more polite, grateful even, to the good folks here.
They have a lot of experience and in depth knowledge, and they are spending their spare time to help you.
We don't get paid for this so a little gratitude goes a long way.

Good luck selling your ring.
I suggest getting some good macro pics from a pro photographer and listing it on www.idonowidont.com or www.loupetroop.com