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Camera-attachment for Gem Microscopes

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FuriousAngel

FuriousAngel

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 8, 2005
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9
Hey all, hopefully some vendors w/ experience in this can help me here:

If I want to show a client a diamond under a gem microscope (darkfield), but I dont want them to have to peer into the eyepieces, is there a video adapter I could connect to a computer so that they could see the image on the monitor?

I have an inexpensive GemOro ELITE microscope, do I have to get one of those crazy expensive GIA GTL ones?

I'm gonna be using Matrix 3D-CAD to custom design, and I really think it would be cool to show a customer real-time microscope video on the large flatscreen monitor.
 
Check the following sites.....



http://www.kassoy.com
http://www.yourgemologist.com
http://www.ken-a-vision.com

Can also search on Google ... lots of microscope dealers.

Rockdoc
 
Thanks RocDoc....Kassoy had something that looked good...have to buy the microscope with it...kinda expensive...do you know anything about the quality of the Leica Stereo Zoom 64X microscope?
 
Does GIA GTL sell a set-up like this? Seems like they are the leaders in microscope technology....as they are a Gem Lab, and if I have to get a kit and shell out ~$3000-4000, I think I might as well do a GIA ''scope.
 
The Leica 64x is a great scope but is also pricey... I think around 6K.

I am not thrilled with the Leica.

I like the American Optics 63x which is one of the scopes I have. I think the optics are far siuperior and it is built really well.

GIA has used ones like this, but again they are pricey - and all the accesories ( like doubler lenses may not be available)

I have heard Nikon scope are really good. Severa scope companies have a third eyepice so you can keep your camera hooked up to it.. rather than have to pull it on and off which is a pain. Talk to some microscope dealers out of the jewelry trade.. Their are better deals to be made.

A lot of people like the Meiji... yourgemologist sells these. however I like the AO better.. They don''t make them anymore so the bad part is you are limited to incandescent light rather than halogen, which the GIA base has.

Also call Kassoy, ask for Drew... They have a clip on attachment for some scopes.


Check with Gem Instruments (GIA) They probably have some AO''s, The do have Bausch and Lombs ones with halogen light, which I prefer over the Leica ones.

Just my opinion here....
Shop around - compare them all and make an informed choice.

Since you''re a friend of Rhino''s are you in NY? IF so, you can go to Kassoy ( they are local to NY) and Gem Instruments on the 580 buiidling.


Rockdoc
 
Thanks Guys!

RocDoc, i''m an e-friend of Rhino, I live in Orlando FL area....my sig is just a shoutout to him since he''s given me alot of advice over the last couple of months of setting up my biz.

So I gotta buy a new scope eh....crap I knew I wouldnt get away w/ getting the $300 one
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I used to sell ASHA simulants at an itty-bitty kiosk in the Mall....man do I have stories from that little chapter of my life
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You might try Jeff Wildman at http://www.gemproducts.com.

He sells refurbished AO''s, along with several other brands, at reasonable prices.

He might be able to help you out with the camera set up as well.
 
Thanks Rich

BTW Anyone interested in a GemOro ELITE Gem ''scope...brand new, only used 2x! $200 ! ! LOL
 
Meiiji makes an awsome trinocular scope for about $3000 if you can swing it. Quality tools can be expensive but you only need to pay for them once. You end up paying for bad tools again and again forever. Your microscope is the heart of your business. This is a bad place to be making unnecessary compromises.

Neil Beaty
Independent Appraisals in Denver
 
You do not have to spend much at all. You can readily buy microscope eye-piece to camera lense adapters from photo supply places such as BH Photo in NYC. You need the mm diameter of the eye-piece and the camera lense mm inside diameter. The lense on the camera, if it is a quality lense, will be threaded and exact adapters are made in aevery normal size.....

Then it is up to you to fit a video type camera or a still type camera. If you want live viewing, then a video camera direct to a simple montir will do the job. You can pick up videao camera without a recording capacity for very little money.....

The GIA and the like, while serving a function, charge a TON more than it is necessary to spend on a little nea,t rig for this use.
 
Thanks all, i''m no penny pincher, ill spend if its really neccesary to get quality...I can afford it, I was thinking of getting a Sarin and a Colorimeter for in house grading/affirmation of GIA/AGS certs, so maybe ill just shift $$$ around and get a CZ Master Set instead.
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The only thing I dislike about my GemOro ELITE ''scope is the "Darkfield" doesnt really seem like true darkfield, it only goes to 30X w/ a pretty small field of view, and it doesnt keep focus throughout the ZOOM range.

Might the new GIA Digital ''scope already have a video output built in, since its all digital architechture, that would make sense, for that $$$ why not have a digital video out?
 
Furious,

Skip the colorimeter, invest in DIAMOND color masters instead.

Real time imaging is handy and it''s got a wonderful whizbang effect on customers, especially on techy types. I really like my trinocular scope so that customers and I can see something simultaneously and I can point out things on the screen. I find it almost impossible to do real grading work on the video and will only do this through the oculars so, for me, I have to have both. The video stream also alows me to capture images for use in reports.

Personally, I think the GIA unit is too expensive and, no, it doesn''t have a video port. I bought mine from Jeff Wildman as listed in Rich''s post and have had it for more than a decade. B&L made the optics and Panasonic made the camera. I love it. If I were buying one today, I''ld get the Meiiji although the price keeps climbing as the dollar drops.

Neil Beaty
Independent Appraisals in Denver
 
Neil,

Thanks for the info, why should I skip on a Gran Colorimeter? Sure its 5K, but how much is a 10-stone DIAMOND Master Set?, the CZ ones a almost 500 bucks themselves
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I cant find a Diamond master set online, but im sure its no less than $2500 for a 10 stone.

I know the Diamond master set is good to show to customers, so they can have an idea what color-range they wanna look for..but I think a Colorimeter + CZ set would be the most accurate and confidence building, best of both worlds.
 

Furious,


Things I like about my colorimeter (yes, I have one):
1) It''s cool.
2) Customers like the idea that a machine is producing the grade and that it is somehow less biased because of this.
3) Less skill is required on the part of the employee.
Things I don''t like:
1) The Colorimter isn''t consistent. It can and does produce different results for the same stone when examined different times. This is especially true for mounted goods.
2) Maintenance can get expensive.
3) It''s a pain to move around, it requires warm up, you''ll break it if you drop it or you or an employee are less careful than you should be. It can be damaged by power fluctuations.
Diamond Masters:
Actually, they’ll cost more than that, especially if you get decent sizes.
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Price is the only serious problem with them. It''s also kind of a chore to put together a set but they hold their value pretty well, they require zero maintenance, they’re portable and they are difficult to damage. It takes some practice to get good at color grading but presumably that''s something you''re learning from GIA.
CZ masters (yes, I have a set of these as well)
CZ’s, in my opinion, don’t look all that much like diamonds and this can be important for the comparison. They can change over time. They are MUCH less expensive and this is their primary feature. This means a lower risk associated with losing them, lower initial investment, bigger sizes, etc.

By the way, whichever route you choose be sure to get a good light and make yourself a standardized viewing environment.


Neil Beaty
Independent Appraisals in Denver
 
Do nOT buy a colorimeter. They do not work well enough to use for grading or confirming grades..... I have owned three of these and I speak from experience. The science is wrong and they cannot work reliably for that purpose.

Do buy DIAMOND masters. Also buy CZ sets that you can use along with your contreoll diamond masters. Both function well although diamond masters are permanent and CZ''s fade without warning. Also, CZ cannot be used as well when travelling without bringing along a standard light that you ALWAYS use with them. They will erratically show differing colors in different lights, so you need controlled portable lighting to use them remotely.

The camera to microscope adapters I mentioned are well made and just don''t cost much. A trinocular scope is cool, but harldy important. I would suggest getting at least an older GIA scope with Halogen lighting. They are excellent, even today. The new stuff is better yet, but is costly, for sure....
 
Thanks for all the info guys, but can ANYONE show me where to get a GIA-graded DIAMOND master set online, I seriously cannot find one, they''re all CZ''s, I need some $ figures here for comparison, I might check Stuller.
 
Furious,

Not a chance. Almost always, you''ll need to build your own set. Here''s how.

Contact GIA and read the grading rules. They are different from the what you are accustomed to. Then find an agreeable dealer who will support your mission. Pick out some stones that you think will be appropriate and send them to GIA for examination. If GIA accepts them, then you agree to buy. If GIA rejects, you give them back and try different ones. GIA regularly takes a month or two to do this so you are asking a substantial favor of the dealer involved. My observation is that the GIA reject rate is over 50% so you will need to repeat this process a couple of times to fill in all of the stones you want. In general you are looking for decent cut, VS2 or better to qualify, no fluorescence and rock solid color grading.

Use the search engine at the top to price the individual stones at whatever size you choose. This will give you a decent idea for the budget. Add $60/stone for GIA.

Occationally a set will turn up on Poly and you can snag them. If you''re not a Poly member, tell one of the dealers what you''re looking for and let them assist you in the hunt. It''s difficult and they usually want a premium price because they''ve been through the above described grief on your behalf.

Neil Beaty
Independent Appraisals in Denver
 
OK Neil, sounds good, I think I know just the dealer who''ll help me on my ''mission''
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Would it help to do a ''prescreening'' with a colorimeter (if he has one), to weed out stones GIA might decline, or are the Colorimeters THAT unreliable?

Also, what size is best.....1/2carat stones or should I do 1 carat stones for better presentation to customers. Theres no need for a D master right? Anything lighter than the E-stone is a D.

Its true, we should never get lazy and rely to heavily on machines, or our own senses may get dull, some color calls are tough, but i''m getting pretty good at it.
 
I think I see one neat use for Dave's / Imagem's equipment - can it display a notification when the stone is within a small margin of true split color grade? If the machine is used to bulk sort stones for example in India, these customers could make a killing selling masters for very little additional expense. Cut and to a less extent clarity would have a much lower impact on selling price of such stones.

Do the comments skeptical towards machine color grading also apply to Marty Haske's SAS2000? The hassle Neil describes (which sounds a little like a racket with GIA the main beneficiary) makes machine grading sound that much more desirable.
 
Furious.

Do all the pregrading you can and be extremely picky. The better you are before you ship, the lower the chances are that you will have to repeat the process - less wasted time and money for you, less pain for the dealer. The size will be driven by the budget. Get the biggest you can reasonably afford. They have to be within 0.10cts of one another so pick the size for the entire set before you pick the first stone. In theory, 1.0ct. stones is what you should be using but most of us compromise on this because of the money. Mine are between 0.46 and 0.50cts. 0.90-0.99 is a pretty attractive grouping on the price sheets but you''re still talking about a pretty big bag of money. A set of these will give you bragging rights at the secret gemologists meetings but I''m not sure it will help your color grading all that much. Rap on a 10 stone set of light halves is about $11k. Rap on a set of 0.95''s is $44k. Go up to one caraters and Rap hits $57k.
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I would start with E-G-I. Plan on filling it in with E-N inclusive and a Z if you can find one (I still don''t have a Z so if you find 2, PM me.). The lower grades, K-Q aren''t generally all that expensive but they can be pretty hard to find because the quality dealers don''t stock them. My D is pretty useful for showing customers what a D looks like and why I graded their stone an E but it was awfuly expensive and very difficult to find. The bright side is I''m sure I could sell it at a profit with a single phone call if required because it''s got the GIA color master designation.

Don''t accept split grades. They are far less useful and far less valuable when you''re done.

Neil Beaty
Independent Appraisals in Denver
 
We have digital couplers that enable the attachment of any digital camera to most any microscope. We have been using them for jewelry intake (repair) and other applications. We are easily fitted to most Gemscopes and/or we have all of the accessories needed to fit our coupler lenses to other sizes: 28mm, 30mm, 31mm etc.

We also have software that controls the camera (Canon, Olympus) completely and directs, saves, prints
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and opens secondary programs to edit or manage the newly created image files. Real time visualization is no problem.

Lastly, we offer a real time viewer that shows the image as seen by the camera''s lens.

Alan Bergelson
 
Hi,

Are you still selling your scope? Give me a little more detail if you are.

Thanks...Cindy
 
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