Buying Advice, a Little Overwhelmed

[jtsunami]

Hello all,

As a 23 year old, I haven't bought expensive jewelry and don't know much about buying. After reading some other threads and how many of you have helped them, I was hoping you could help me too. I am thinking about proposing to my girlfriend in the next 2-3 months. I've read up on the 4 C's and other basics about diamonds. However, I'm having a hard time trying to decipher where and what I can get with my budget. I plan on spending $5000-$6000 for the entire ring (stone, setting, and band). I read somewhere that the stone should constitute 75%-90% of the cost of the ring. However, she has emphasized the ring moreso than the size of the diamond.

Here's what I think (emphasize think) I want from what I know her preferences are:

Color > or = J
Clarity > or = VS2
Carat > or = 0.75
Cut > or = good
Shape: Princess
Setting: prong or cathedral
Band: white gold,; has stones, not solitaire; allows for straight wedding band (not one that curves around the engagement ring)
Inspected by GIA and/or Jewlers of America

From reading around I believe cut is the most important. What else should I focus on? Is Princess shape more expensive than others? Where should I get the diamond? Where should I get the ring? Should I stay away from the big, corporate diamond/jewelry retailers? Here is Indy, there's Jared, Distinctive Diamonds (claim to be a wholesaler), Shane Company, Reis-Nichols, Helzberg, Tiffany & Co., Zales, Kay, and multiple mom/pop jewelry stores. Should I buy online? If so, how do I shop for a diamond online?

If you have any questions for me, I'll do my best to answer them.

 

[stone-cold11]

Princess is harder than round. The only lab that grades the cut performance of a princess is AGS, any other cut grade is assigned by the vendor and can mean anything the vendor wish to assign a meaning to the grades.

Most reliabily graded stone, from AGS/GIA, should be eye-clean at the size you are looking at.

If you are going to buy in a store, buy and learn how to use and ASET scope, relatively cheap, around 70 USD or stick with an AGS 0 cut graded stone. Buying online, same deal, stick with AGS 0 cut graded stone or buy from a vendor that can provided ASET image.

 

[Lula]

Princess is harder than round. The only lab that grades the cut performance of a princess is AGS, any other cut grade is assigned by the vendor and can mean anything the vendor wish to assign a meaning to the grades.

Most reliabily graded stone, from AGS/GIA, should be eye-clean at the size you are looking at.

If you are going to buy in a store, buy and learn how to use and ASET scope, relatively cheap, around 70 USD or stick with an AGS 0 cut graded stone. Buying online, same deal, stick with AGS 0 cut graded stone or buy from a vendor that can provided ASET image.

Ditto what stone-cold says about how to assess the stone, and sticking with AGS 0 as the safest option. Whiteflash, Good Old Gold, and Crafted by Infinity brand diamonds (available through several vendors -- see their website) are all excellent online vendors who carry AGS 0 princess cut stones.

Just as an example of what you could get online with your budget, I found this AGS 0 graded princess cut stone for you through Whiteflash's website:
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2594756.htm

Here's an example of a simple, elegant, cathedral-style setting for a princess cut, also available through Whiteflash
http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/w-prong-for-princess-cut-diamond-by-wf-892.htm

This one is a little bit more expensive, but has diamonds on the sides of the setting:
http://www.whiteflash.com/engagemen...eek-line-pave-diamond-engagement-ring-422.htm

That doesn't leave you a whole lot left over for a band, but if the wedding is a ways away, you have some more time to save up for a diamond wedding band to wear with the solitaire. Whiteflash has several diamond bands available; here's the style that matches the Legato engagement ring I linked above:
http://www.whiteflash.com/wedding-bands/legato-sleek-line-pave-diamond-wedding-band-617.htm

Again, these are just a few examples I put together to show you what you could get with your budget, working with an online vendor. My advice is that you give Whiteflash and Good Old Gold a call (or e-mail them, but in my opinion, calling is quicker and easier) and tell them what you're looking for ask a sales associate for their suggestions. You can post the links to anything they suggest here, and we'll be happy to share our opinions

Some other things to consider: Princess cuts face up smaller than rounds, so go for the biggest carat weight you can, without compromising on color or clarity too much (princess cuts show color more easily and also tend to show inclusions more, too, than rounds). So you'll need to think a bit how low you want to go in color and clarity to maximize size. Each person is different in terms of what they prefer in color and clarity, but you can save some money buying a G or H color princess cut versus an E or an F, if you know your gf is okay with G or H, or even I or J color.

There may be other vendors who carry AGS 0 graded princess cuts (Brian Gavin?) and you may also want to see if there is a Crafted by Infinity brand dealer in your area. They carry beautiful princess cut diamonds, too, cut with a double chevron pattern instead of the traditional pattern.

ETA: Scroll down the page under the Lagato setting, and you'll see a photo of the Legato setting set with a princess cut stone.

 

[Dreamer_D]

The simplest method to ensure a great looking princess is to buy one with a Lab report from AGS that has a cut grade of O. You can buy online or locally, but online is usually (i.e., 95% of the time) less expensive. And when you buy from a vendor who has proven themselves to consumers on PS, it is a very safe and simple process.

 

[jtsunami]

Thanks a lot guys. Very helpful. I might have stated incorrectly the ring I want to put the diamond on, but she does not want a solitaire ring. She likes stones on the ring itself, so that makes the ring a bit more expensive. However, you guys answered the most important things as I needed to know more about the diamond than the ring. Oh, and I didn't factor the wedding band into my budget so the $5000-$6000 was for the engagement ring only.

Again, thanks a lot.

Keep the info coming! More opinions the better hah!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Do you want to buy online or in person? That is your next decision. Shop around locally and see what is available (Don't buy yet!) then look online and make an informed choice.

 

[jtsunami]

Do you want to buy online or in person? That is your next decision. Shop around locally and see what is available (Don't buy yet!) then look online and make an informed choice.

I'm not sure what I'd rather do. What are the cons of online shopping? Is shipping expensive? Do you have to buy the ring as well or can you buy the loose diamond only? A lot retailers will set the diamond and ring if you buy through them, but is it expensive to have it set from a 3rd party?

I'm obviously not ready to buy, just need some guidance. I will probably shop with her at some physical stores to get her exact ring size, the size diamond she prefers etc. The only thing that won't change is my budget (unless I win the lottery)

 

[Ickeymouse]

The biggest pro of buying online is price, and usually quality.

Shopping online is very safe if you go with a reputable online vendor, no worries there.

Shipping costs are free (figured into the cost of the merchandise) online. And if you don't like the stone, and decide to return it, they may give you back all your money, or they may subtract what it cost them to send it to you. It shouldn't cost more than $40.00 dollars to have the post office, send it back to them.

You could buy just the diamond online from one vendor, and if they don't have the setting that you like, you could send it to another vendor to set. Or, you could buy just the diamond online, and get a local jeweler to set it in a setting they have, or can order for you, or they will set it in one that you bring to them.

Usually, if you buy the diamond and setting from the same vendor, they will set the stone for free. If you have another vendor set the stone, the fees vary. My own local jeweler charges $1/carat to set a diamond into any setting.

If your FI wants a wedding band to wear next to the ring that does not have any shape or curve to go around the engagement setting, you may need a cathedral setting, that brings the head up away from the shank, like this...

http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/diamond-settings/cathedral-pave-diamond-engagement-ring-1421.htm

or one where the head sits up on top of the shank like this...

http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/diamond-settings/the-legato-micro-pave-diamond-engagement-ring-911.htm

Of course, the main disadvantage of buying online is that you usually can't compare items side by side, unless you have an unlimited amount of money to call in the stones, and/or get an unbiased appraiser involved.

Some vendors will look at the stones for you, and give you their opinion. Blue Nile can tell you things like whether or not the stone is "eye clean (meaning you can't see inclusions with your naked eye)," but they won't give you there opinion comparing one to another.


Congratulations!

 

[slg47]

it is definitely easier to buy the setting and diamond from the same vendor. it sounds like your GF wants a pave ring that comes with a matching wedding band. that should be easy to find at several of the PS vendors (or other vendors)

 

[Eilonwy]

Sounds like she wants a copy of the "Tiffany Novo" which you can check out on their website. Every store has a ring which is kind of a variation on the novo

Their stone is a modified cushion but people make copied with princess cuts, etc. You should take her shopping with you to a place that sells loose stones so she can see all the cuts. Princess might not be the only square shape she likes

Soooo many people on here say to buy online and they have saved a tonne of money and been really happy with the results so I would definitely try it, and if you pick a diamond you think is good online you can post the stats on here and people will tell you what they think of it

Does she like dainty rings or rings with a bit of substance?

 

[slg47]

Sounds like she wants a copy of the "Tiffany Novo" which you can check out on their website. Every store has a ring which is kind of a variation on the novo

Their stone is a modified cushion but people make copied with princess cuts, etc. You should take her shopping with you to a place that sells loose stones so she can see all the cuts. Princess might not be the only square shape she likes

Soooo many people on here say to buy online and they have saved a tonne of money and been really happy with the results so I would definitely try it, and if you pick a diamond you think is good online you can post the stats on here and people will tell you what they think of it

Does she like dainty rings or rings with a bit of substance?

actually the Tiffany Novo has a 'donut' of metal that will not allow a wedding band to sit flush.

 

[Eilonwy]

Yeah true the donut wouldn't allow it to sit completely flush but it wouldn't need a band that has to wrap around or anything.

Might be an idea to check and see whether she wants the wedding band to sit dead flush or if she's just happy as long as she doesn't have to have a curved or shaped wedding band.

 

[Amys Bling]

My input, I oils definitely look to get the best cut your budget will allow.

 

[jtsunami]

Thanks a lot. From Lula and IckeyMouse's suggestion I'm strongly leaning towards a cathedral setting as opposed to prong setting (I especially like the platinum ring Ickey shared in the link from whiteflash). From this and another Princess cut thread, I believe I shouldn't worry too much about clarity. However, I was wondering the difference between VS1 and VS2. I think I saw somewhere that a VS2 could have imperfections that can be seen by the naked eye.

On the ring itself, is platinum worth the upgrade? I read that white gold is much more noticeable when the rhodium deteriorates. And it scares me to think this could happen in only 2-5 years of wearing it. I've also heard of palladium. What is your personal preference when taking into consideration cost?

Also, I believe she will want to have the wedding band fused so it should sit flush with the engagement ring.

Without looking too much into it, I really like what I've seen from White Flash. And some have mentioned Blue Nile and Good Old Gold as other good places to look. Any others?

Finally, should I be scared away from Princess cut diamonds that aren't graded by AGS?

 

[E B]

Have you seen this set from WF?

http://www.whiteflash.com/engagemen...-sleek-line-pave-diamond-wedding-set-1478.htm

ETA: Lula linked to the separates, and here they are together, showing they sit flush.

 

[Eilonwy]

Just my two cents about platinum - my ring is platinum and almost everyone else I know that is engaged/married have white gold rings. I've been wearing mine around for about a year and a half and it still looks white/shiny. The white gold rings that my friends have look noticeably duller and some of those rings are newer than mine. However I very much doubt that they have had them rhodium plated at all (most of them wouldn't even know you can do it). Both platinum and white gold look good when properly maintained (when platinum is polished and white gold is rhodium plated).

It's personal preference although from what I have read platinum has the benefit of lasting a lot longer. I prefer platinum but only because I have been wearing it and am used to it.

White gold or platinum you could still have them soldered together.

 

[jtsunami]

Has anyone heard of jamesallen.com? Their Princess cuts seem pretty cheap.

 

[Ickeymouse]

1) White gold, since it is not really white, but made to look white with other alloys, needs the Rhodium plating to look really bright white. When the Rhodium starts to wear (anywhere from one year or more), you can easily take it to a jeweler who can polish the gold and re plate with Rhodium, my jeweler charges about $15.00 plus tax to Rhodium plate a ring

2) Here is an article in "Modern Jeweler"on Palladium...http://www.modernjeweler.com/print/Modern-Jeweler/Tipping-Point/1$87

3) As far as VS1 vs VS2 clarity...if it has been graded by AGS, or GIA, I think you would need bionic eyes to see their inclusions with your naked eye. It is hard to see them even at 10X.

4) Never bought from James Allen, but I have seen other folks on this forum recommend them. With princesses and other fancy cuts, an ASET image will help to show the light return/performance of the diamond. You can ask James Allen for the ASET picture of the diamond you are considering.

5) Exceldiamonds.com, will also get you and ASET image, etc., of the stone/stones you are considering. You will need to ask them.

Here is a .80 H

http://www.exceldiamonds.com/Diamonds-1/AGS-Graded-Loose-Princess-Cut-0-8-Carat-H-Color-VS1-Clarity-60716.html

and a .96 H

http://www.exceldiamonds.com/Diamonds-1/AGS-Graded-Loose-Princess-Cut-0-96-Carat-H-Color-VS1-Clarity-60792.html

A few of excels cathedral settings...

http://www.exceldiamonds.com/-Engagement-Rings-5/Diamond-Accent-Engagement-Rings-12/Accent-Diamond-Engagement-Ring-58352.html?vid=1126673

http://www.exceldiamonds.com/-Engagement-Rings-5/Diamond-Accent-Engagement-Rings-12/Accent-Diamond-Engagement-Ring-58350.html?vid=1111313

http://www.exceldiamonds.com/-Engagement-Rings-5/Diamond-Accent-Engagement-Rings-12/Accent-Diamond-Engagement-Ring-1347.html

and...http://www.exceldiamonds.com/-Engagement-Rings-5/Diamond-Accent-Engagement-Rings-12/Accent-Diamond-Engagement-Ring-1897.html

6) Advice about soldering rings together... Don't! Reason? She may not want to wear the engagement ring all the time (for travel, cleaning, work,etc), but she may want to wear the wedding band all the time. I would have her try them separate for awhile, and see if she changes her mind.

7) Correction to my last post...I meant to write that my jeweler charges $1 per point (not carat) to set a diamond. For instance a .75 carat stone would cost me $75.00 (plus tax) to set.

 

[slg47]

Has anyone heard of jamesallen.com? Their Princess cuts seem pretty cheap.

they are likely less expensive than the other vendors because their princess cuts are not branded in-house stones. that being said, you can occasionally find an AGS0 on JA. JA will also provide up to 3 ASET images, so that is useful in evaluating cut.

 

[jtsunami]

Gracias to all.

What are your takes on fluorescence in diamonds? It seems like diamonds with fluorescence aren't any more expensive than ones without, but they seem to raise the color grade because of the blue-ish tint it gives off. Would a diamond with fluorescence look weird on a ring with side stones?

Obviously getting an AGS 0 would be ideal (no pun intended), but should I focus more on ASET images even if they aren't graded by AGS? With ASET images, how can you tell the difference between Excellent and Ideal cut?

EDIT: Also, what are your opinions on girdle, culet, and table for a Princess cut?

 

[jtsunami]

Went to a 3 jewelry stores this weekend. 1 corporate, 2 local. I wanted to get your feedback on a couple things.

Are rings and diamonds negotiable?

Should SI1 and SI2 be eyeclean?

I brought up ASET images with all 3 jewelry stores, and none of them knew what I was talking about. Is that not common for jewelers to have for their diamonds?

For the Princess cut, I know to look for AGS 0 Ideal. But those are few and far between. Is getting a GIA report with very good to excellent ratings on Fire, Brilliance, and Scintillation just as good for determining cut?

When I'm ready to purchase, should I ask them to wait to set the diamond so I can have it appraised? Then bring it back to have it set?

 

[stone-cold11]

ASET is developed by AGS for their performance graded stones. So stores selling AGS stones should know what it is and probably have the equipment.

GIA do not grade princess on cut, so who grade those fire, brilliance, scintillation?

Depends on who gives the clarity grade. For stone size you are looking at, reliably graded stones, by AGS/GIA, SI1 are mostly eye-clean, some SI2 are also, for the normal mortals. Case by case, do not assume eye-clean for SI grade and below without seeing it. Some eagle-eye people can even see inclusions at VS2 level, but those are very very rare. Not sure how good your eye-sight is, near-sighted people are able to see inclusion easier generally as they can look closer at the stone than normal people.

 

[jtsunami]

ASET is developed by AGS for their performance graded stones. So stores selling AGS stones should know what it is and probably have the equipment.

GIA do not grade princess on cut, so who grade those fire, brilliance, scintillation?

Depends on who gives the clarity grade. For stone size you are looking at, reliably graded stones, by AGS/GIA, SI1 are mostly eye-clean, some SI2 are also, for the normal mortals. Case by case, do not assume eye-clean for SI grade and below without seeing it. Some eagle-eye people can even see inclusions at VS2 level, but those are very very rare. Not sure how good your eye-sight is, near-sighted people are able to see inclusion easier generally as they can look closer at the stone than normal people.

Jared showed me a cut report. I didn't look too closely at it because the diamond had some inclusions I could see without a loupe. But they showed me a report on it that showed fire, brilliance, and scintillation scores. I didn't catch if it was GIA, AGS, or Jared's own diamond report (if they do that). The reason I didn't think it was AGS is because AGS's web site didn't list Jared as an AGS retailer.

It might have been one of their Leo Artisan diamonds, if that helps.

 

[farmer gal]

If I were going to buy a GIA graded diamond I would buy where you can get asset images.

These diamond are GIA graded if you are interested I would contact JA and request asset images

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1379150.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VVS2-Ideal-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1382121.asp

Possible bridal set

http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/wedding-ring-sets/white-gold-wedding-ring-sets.html

Total cost with the most expensive listed would be $6680.00

Here it is pictured with a 1 carat princess

http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/sold/settings-with-matching-bands/2631/Diamond-Wedding-Rings.html

 

[jtsunami]

Closing in on the purchase of a diamond. I've found three around the same carat size and quality. I was hoping to get some opinions on them, maybe Ickey and Lula? Any opinion is welcome.

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-1955776-1.03-carat-Princess-diamond-G-color-VS1-Clarity.aspx?cid=DiamPS
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2516928.htm
http://www.eternitydiamonds.com/diamond_detail.php?id=527359&ref=pricescope

I know about WhiteFlash's quality. Are they quality dealers as well?

Their polish and symmetry are all either very well or excellent. Symmetry is about 1.05. The WhiteFlash one is almost exactly square. All of them have fluorescence.

What other information should I find out that isn't already provided? I plan on getting them appraised by an AGS certified appraiser in my area. I've seen that Garry "Cut Nut" says that depth and table don't really mean anything in cut if I don't factor in pavillion and crown angles. Should I get that even though BC says their cut is "very good" and eternal diamonds says their cut is "excellent"?

 

[slg47]

Closing in on the purchase of a diamond. I've found three around the same carat size and quality. I was hoping to get some opinions on them, maybe Ickey and Lula? Any opinion is welcome.

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-1955776-1.03-carat-Princess-diamond-G-color-VS1-Clarity.aspx?cid=DiamPS
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2516928.htm
http://www.eternitydiamonds.com/diamond_detail.php?id=527359&ref=pricescope

I know about WhiteFlash's quality. Are they quality dealers as well?

Their polish and symmetry are all either very well or excellent. Symmetry is about 1.05. The WhiteFlash one is almost exactly square. All of them have fluorescence.

What other information should I find out that isn't already provided? I plan on getting them appraised by an AGS certified appraiser in my area. I've seen that Garry "Cut Nut" says that depth and table don't really mean anything in cut if I don't factor in pavillion and crown angles. Should I get that even though BC says their cut is "very good" and eternal diamonds says their cut is "excellent"?

unfortunately we do not have enough information on any of these diamonds to judge the cut quality. the cut labels are vendor applied and basically meaningless. I would look for an in-house diamond from a vendor that provides ASET images, or an AGS0 diamond.

 

[Lula]

Closing in on the purchase of a diamond. I've found three around the same carat size and quality. I was hoping to get some opinions on them, maybe Ickey and Lula? Any opinion is welcome.

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-1955776-1.03-carat-Princess-diamond-G-color-VS1-Clarity.aspx?cid=DiamPS
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2516928.htm
http://www.eternitydiamonds.com/diamond_detail.php?id=527359&ref=pricescope

I know about WhiteFlash's quality. Are they quality dealers as well?

Their polish and symmetry are all either very well or excellent. Symmetry is about 1.05. The WhiteFlash one is almost exactly square. All of them have fluorescence.

What other information should I find out that isn't already provided? I plan on getting them appraised by an AGS certified appraiser in my area. I've seen that Garry "Cut Nut" says that depth and table don't really mean anything in cut if I don't factor in pavillion and crown angles. Should I get that even though BC says their cut is "very good" and eternal diamonds says their cut is "excellent"?

unfortunately we do not have enough information on any of these diamonds to judge the cut quality. the cut labels are vendor applied and basically meaningless. I would look for an in-house diamond from a vendor that provides ASET images, or an AGS0 diamond.

I agree with slg, jtsunami. Finding a well-cut princess cut is a lot more difficult than finding a well-cut round diamond. We need to see the ASET images for these stones. Whiteflash will do this for you (not sure if they charge for it) on this stone. I'm not sure if b2c or eternity diamonds provide ASET, and I don't know about bc2 or eternity's quality with respect to princess cuts. I know you want to maximize your budget, but with princess cuts, I strongly recommend you stay with AGS0 if possible, and with GIA stones from companies that provide ASET images. It's worth the effort in the long run! If bc2 and eternity have good return policies, you could always order the stone or stones, have them appraised, and then return them if they are not what you're looking for. You'll need to pay for shipping and appraisal fees, though, but in my opinion, those costs are well worth it if they help you find a good stone (or avoid buying a not-so-good stone!).

ETA: I see that the eternity stone is no longer available -- did you buy it? Let us know if you did and what you think of it when you receive it!

 

[weddedbliss]

First thing's first. GIA doesn't assess anything like "fire" and "brilliance" on their reports. They assess carat, cut (only on rounds, i think), color, polish, symmetry, propotions (sometimes), and inclusions (might be leaving something out), but NOT those things we see from a diamond, like fire, brilliance, and scintillation. So, Jared was showing you their own report.

Second, the stones you just linked to, even the Whiteflash one, aren't assessed for light performance either. While they are certified, there isn't even an image of the stone itself on the site (note that the whiteflash stone says "sample image"). I really believe you'll want to reconsider this and look again at the 0.854 F VS2 superideal princess lula initially posted. It had an AGS cert WITH light performance assessments (via ASETs, and you could see an image of the diamond- which by the way looks gorgeous) It's still there. The second setting he posted sounds exactly like what you're looking for, too. I 100% don't think you could go wrong with the whiteflash stone he posted and second setting. I bought a stone whose light performance was un-assessed, and sent it back. In my experience there's a reason the industry proves performance for some stones and not others. If a stone doesn't make the cut, WHY would they put up an ASET for it?

My keeper was bought from online, and was the best cut available (I've been a lurker here for a long time and bought from three of the prominent vendors). My experience with Whiteflash was EXCELLENT for quality and service. Plus, you can always return your purchase within their window. I just don't see how you could go wrong.

 

[weddedbliss]

Here's another option:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8364/

While not actually a princess cut, it is a beautiful, square diamond. If she mainly cares about the square shape (and not necessarily the facet patterning), this is definitely a good option as well. That being said, I have also bought from goodoldgold. Like whiteflash, the quality and service were flawless.

 

[weddedbliss]

Yet another option:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/7995/


Again, the light performance is good. I agree with princess (and fancy cuts in general), it's much harder to get a good cut. Again, this has been my experience as a shopper.

You might be tempted to go up in size and down in cut. But don't forget that the difference in cut will be just as noticeable as a difference in carat size. And really, which would you rather have- a great cut on .75 - .85 carats, or an ok cut (that will NOT perform as well) on a full carat?