Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom law"

[Niel]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

.

Conversely I have a very good friend who is trans. This is unkind of me to say, but she very much looks like a guy wearing makeup. People stare, make comments, and snap pictures when we are out together. I don't know how she has the courage to venture out (and travel the world!) by herself, but she does.

She gets rude comments and faces confrontation nomatter what bathroom she uses. Laws like this one somehow justify the people who discriminate against her. It's just not fair.

This is what I was trying to get at in one of my other posts. If they are "passing", this law won't change much. If you can't tell if they are trans, they will not be confronted in a bathroom. Who will be confronted are the people who don't look the part. The tran woman than can't hide her bald spot or trans man who can't hide his beasts, these are the people who will be targeted. And they are already targeted by society.

 

[Matata]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

From the Daily Show:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIvCh3EQv1Q

 

[ruby59]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

The predator argument is honestly lost on me. So a dude puts on lipstick and enters a women's bathroom. Then what? It's still illegal for him to asault anyone. He can't stand there touching himself. He bassically has to use the toilet, wash his hands, and go on his merry way. If he does anything creepy call security.

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And would that be before or after he traumatizes your child.

What about at beaches in the shower and changing rooms. Should those be co-ed as well?

I agree with Mom on this one.

 

[ruby59]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

Now I can go pee in the ladies restroom
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You say that jokingly, but what about pervs that are actually going to do it.

And to be clear, I am not referring to gay or straight, just men with an obvious agenda using this to his advantage.

 

[ruby59]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

Um, okay. I guess my opinion is pure bullshit. Life goes on.

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Not even close, Mom.

 

[ruby59]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

Sexual assault is already illegal. Public exposure is already illegal. Rape is already illegal.
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And you think it being illegal stops them? What stops them, or more accurately slows them down, is lack of opportunity.

 

[ruby59]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

If youre trans and are not planning to do any of those things currently, they go to the bathroom and go on their way. So, because of this, I do not understand how this law is trying to parade itself as a law meant for protection. It's a segregation law. If you dont like trans people, and don't "believe" them or don't like them, then you want to pass laws that keep them away from you. It's not hard to understand.

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It is not about trans gender people. It is about a man (probably straight) with an agenda who will use this to his advantage.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

If youre trans and are not planning to do any of those things currently, they go to the bathroom and go on their way. So, because of this, I do not understand how this law is trying to parade itself as a law meant for protection. It's a segregation law. If you dont like trans people, and don't "believe" them or don't like them, then you want to pass laws that keep them away from you. It's not hard to understand.

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It is not about trans gender people. It is about a man (probably straight) with an agenda who will use this to his advantage.

**edited by moderator. entirely inappropriate DF**

 

[missy]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

I dislike generalizing but have to say this is why I prefer living in an urban area where people are more generous and liberal in their views towards others who are perceived by many to be 'different' in whatever way that is. We are all different in some way or another and I don't want to live somewhere I or others are going to be viewed unfavorably/not tolerated because of who we are. This is just another example of intolerance towards people who are just trying to be true to who they are and it makes me feel ill that people can be so intolerant so unkind and so hurtful towards others.

 

[liaerfbv]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

If youre trans and are not planning to do any of those things currently, they go to the bathroom and go on their way. So, because of this, I do not understand how this law is trying to parade itself as a law meant for protection. It's a segregation law. If you dont like trans people, and don't "believe" them or don't like them, then you want to pass laws that keep them away from you. It's not hard to understand.

____________________________________________________________

It is not about trans gender people. It is about a man (probably straight) with an agenda who will use this to his advantage.

**edited by moderator. entirely inappropriate DF**

Your comments on this thread are not funny, and frankly disgusting. Please stop insinuating that sexually harassing women in the bathroom is either something to joke about or appropriate.

ETA: Reported. I'm sick of you making threads gross with your comments.

 

[Laila619]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

I dislike generalizing but have to say this is why I prefer living in an urban area where people are more generous and liberal in their views towards others who are perceived by many to be 'different' in whatever way that is. We are all different in some way or another and I don't want to live somewhere I or others are going to be viewed unfavorably/not tolerated because of who we are. This is just another example of intolerance towards people who are just trying to be true to who they are and it makes me feel ill that people can be so intolerant so unkind and so hurtful towards others.

Nobody here is being intolerant or discriminatory. The problem is NOT with the transgender people. The problem is with a few bad apples (predatory males *pretending* to be trans) who ruin it for everyone else and make people want to be cautious.

 

[Niel]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

I dislike generalizing but have to say this is why I prefer living in an urban area where people are more generous and liberal in their views towards others who are perceived by many to be 'different' in whatever way that is. We are all different in some way or another and I don't want to live somewhere I or others are going to be viewed unfavorably/not tolerated because of who we are. This is just another example of intolerance towards people who are just trying to be true to who they are and it makes me feel ill that people can be so intolerant so unkind and so hurtful towards others.

Nobody here is being intolerant or discriminatory. The problem is NOT with the transgender people. The problem is with a few bad apples (predatory males *pretending* to be trans) who ruin it for everyone else and make people want to be cautious.

You're right the problem is not trans people. However, that's who is being targeted by this law.

I hope the irony isn't lost on the conservative members of this forum that you're trying to pass a law to inconvenience the innocent to protect society from a few bad apples. Replace bathrooms with guns and I'm infringing on your rights. Leave it bathrooms bd this people need to gtf over it, right? My kids could get shot, and that's the price you pay to be an American. Your kids could see a trans woman in the bathroom, someone get the pitchforks.

 

[Niel]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

Sexual assault is already illegal. Public exposure is already illegal. Rape is already illegal.
_______________________________________________________

And you think it being illegal stops them? What stops them, or more accurately slows them down, is lack of opportunity.

That's the point.

 

[autumngems]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

Just me, but I agree with Momhappy, Diamondseeker, and Ruby59

 

[missy]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

I dislike generalizing but have to say this is why I prefer living in an urban area where people are more generous and liberal in their views towards others who are perceived by many to be 'different' in whatever way that is. We are all different in some way or another and I don't want to live somewhere I or others are going to be viewed unfavorably/not tolerated because of who we are. This is just another example of intolerance towards people who are just trying to be true to who they are and it makes me feel ill that people can be so intolerant so unkind and so hurtful towards others.

Nobody here is being intolerant or discriminatory. The problem is NOT with the transgender people. The problem is with a few bad apples (predatory males *pretending* to be trans) who ruin it for everyone else and make people want to be cautious.

You're right the problem is not trans people. However, that's who is being targeted by this law.

I hope the irony isn't lost on the conservative members of this forum that you're trying to pass a law to inconvenience the innocent to protect society from a few bad apples. Replace bathrooms with guns and I'm infringing on your rights. Leave it bathrooms bd this people need to gtf over it, right? My kids could get shot, and that's the price you pay to be an American. Your kids could see a trans woman in the bathroom, someone get the pitchforks.

Exactly! The transgender people are doing absolutely *nothing* wrong yet being targeted and punished by this law. Because of the "conservative" people whose delicate sensibilities are bothered by transgender people using their restrooms.

 

[Matata]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

Exactly! The transgender people are doing absolutely *nothing* wrong yet being targeted and punished by this law. Because of the "conservative" people whose delicate sensibilities are bothered by transgender people using their restrooms.

I wish we would stop doing this...boxing people up, labeling, stereotyping. Some people are bothered by the notion of unisex bathrooms and they run the gamut of all the labels we traditionally use. This is not just an issue to conservatives (whatever that means, because I'm sure the definition of "conservative" varies by as many people as there are on this planet). We close the door to discourse when we box people up. It is one of the strongest factors in our inability as a society to evolve.

 

[missy]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

Exactly! The transgender people are doing absolutely *nothing* wrong yet being targeted and punished by this law. Because of the "conservative" people whose delicate sensibilities are bothered by transgender people using their restrooms.

I wish we would stop doing this...boxing people up, labeling, stereotyping. Some people are bothered by the notion of unisex bathrooms and they run the gamut of all the labels we traditionally use. This is not just an issue to conservatives (whatever that means, because I'm sure the definition of "conservative" varies by as many people as there are on this planet). We close the door to discourse when we box people up. It is one of the strongest factors in our inability as a society to evolve.

Matata, I take offense when we trample on the rights of others especially people who are discriminated against so egregiously. That is the difference. Personally I am tolerant of people in general and respect their rights but feel when those people care little for the rights of others it is wrong. You might say I am intolerant of intolerance and I am good with that. I am open to discourse but I will never feel it is OK to trample on the rights of a disadvantaged minority. It is never OK to do that to anyone but especially not OK in this case. IMO.

 

[kenny]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

Exactly! The transgender people are doing absolutely *nothing* wrong yet being targeted and punished by this law. Because of the "conservative" people whose delicate sensibilities are bothered by transgender people using their restrooms.

I wish we would stop doing this...boxing people up, labeling, stereotyping. Some people are bothered by the notion of unisex bathrooms and they run the gamut of all the labels we traditionally use. This is not just an issue to conservatives (whatever that means, because I'm sure the definition of "conservative" varies by as many people as there are on this planet). We close the door to discourse when we box people up. It is one of the strongest factors in our inability as a society to evolve.

Matata, I take offense when we trample on the rights of others especially people who are discriminated against so egregiously. That is the difference. Personally I am tolerant of people in general and respect their rights but feel when those people care little for the rights of others it is wrong. You might say I am intolerant of intolerance and I am good with that. I am open to discourse but I will never feel it is OK to trample on the rights of a disadvantaged minority. It is never OK to do that to anyone but especially not OK in this case. IMO.

Well put, Missy.

Intolerance for intolerance is not intolerance.
It's fighting the good fight.

 

[Matata]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

Matata, I take offense when we trample on the rights of others especially people who are discriminated against so egregiously. That is the difference. Personally I am tolerant of people in general and respect their rights but feel when those people care little for the rights of others it is wrong. You might say I am intolerant of intolerance and I am good with that. I am open to discourse but I will never feel it is OK to trample on the rights of a disadvantaged minority. It is never OK to do that to anyone but especially not OK in this case. IMO.

And I agree with you. What I commented on has nothing to do with your beliefs on this issue. You weakened your position, imho, by labeling an opposing viewpoint as "conservative" and then stereotyping them as people with "delicate sensibilities." I questioned that by stating that an opposing viewpoint isn't necessarily a conservative one and even if it were according to your definition of conservative, "delicate sensibilities" connotes that there is something weak or wrong with folks who aren't comfortable with unisex bathrooms. It's akin to me saying that Kenny's position on this is "gay" and his fey tendencies are what make him a proponent of unisex bathrooms. Both statements are unfair and prejudicial and color a rational discussion with emotional baggage.

 

[missy]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

Matata, I take offense when we trample on the rights of others especially people who are discriminated against so egregiously. That is the difference. Personally I am tolerant of people in general and respect their rights but feel when those people care little for the rights of others it is wrong. You might say I am intolerant of intolerance and I am good with that. I am open to discourse but I will never feel it is OK to trample on the rights of a disadvantaged minority. It is never OK to do that to anyone but especially not OK in this case. IMO.

And I agree with you. What I commented on has nothing to do with your beliefs on this issue. You weakened your position, imho, by labeling an opposing viewpoint as "conservative" and then stereotyping them as people with "delicate sensibilities." I questioned that by stating that an opposing viewpoint isn't necessarily a conservative one and even if it were according to your definition of conservative, "delicate sensibilities" connotes that there is something weak or wrong with folks who aren't comfortable with unisex bathrooms. It's akin to me saying that Kenny's position on this is "gay" and his fey tendencies are what make him a proponent of unisex bathrooms. Both statements are unfair and prejudicial and color a rational discussion with emotional baggage.

Matata I used those words on purpose. Doesn't feel so good to be labeled does it? However that is just what is happening re the transgender population. And also why I put the word conservative in quotes. I realize one label doesn't fit all. And I stand by my use of the term "delicate sensibilities" because that is just what it is IMO. I wish people would get over themselves and let people live and let live. Allowing a transgender individual use the women's room or men's room isn't hurting *anyone* and it is unfair as all heck to make a law not allowing them to use the gender restroom they identify with. IMO.

Your argument is more about semantics and I am just trying to cut to the heart of the matter and that is inequality and discrimination. IMO. I agree words do matter and precision of language is important except what is most important is not discriminating against people who are already quite discriminated against so horribly for so long. That was the point of my post.

 

[missy]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

Exactly! The transgender people are doing absolutely *nothing* wrong yet being targeted and punished by this law. Because of the "conservative" people whose delicate sensibilities are bothered by transgender people using their restrooms.

I wish we would stop doing this...boxing people up, labeling, stereotyping. Some people are bothered by the notion of unisex bathrooms and they run the gamut of all the labels we traditionally use. This is not just an issue to conservatives (whatever that means, because I'm sure the definition of "conservative" varies by as many people as there are on this planet). We close the door to discourse when we box people up. It is one of the strongest factors in our inability as a society to evolve.

Matata, I take offense when we trample on the rights of others especially people who are discriminated against so egregiously. That is the difference. Personally I am tolerant of people in general and respect their rights but feel when those people care little for the rights of others it is wrong. You might say I am intolerant of intolerance and I am good with that. I am open to discourse but I will never feel it is OK to trample on the rights of a disadvantaged minority. It is never OK to do that to anyone but especially not OK in this case. IMO.

Well put, Missy.

Intolerance for intolerance is not intolerance.
It's fighting the good fight.

Thanks Kenny. No matter how others try to twist the meaning we know what we mean.

 

[ruby59]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

Nobody here is being intolerant or discriminatory. The problem is NOT with the transgender people. The problem is with a few bad apples (predatory males *pretending* to be trans) who ruin it for everyone else and make people want to be cautious.
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Exactly. We do not live in a Utopian world. Otherwise I would be the first to vote for representative Sanders. But we know there are people who will take what he is trying to do and use it to their advantage.

And what about traumatized women who have been raped. When you are in a bathroom stall you are at your most vulnerable for obvious reasons. Don't they have any rights.

I was brought up to live and let live, and raised my children the same way. Everyone should be accommodated, which is why a third restroom that people can use at their own discretion is a perfect idea. Yet everyone was against Diamondseeker's. post.

Sometimes I wonder if some laws are not about equal rights but just to push buttons.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

Nobody here is being intolerant or discriminatory. The problem is NOT with the transgender people. The problem is with a few bad apples (predatory males *pretending* to be trans) who ruin it for everyone else and make people want to be cautious.
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I was brought up to live and let live, and raised my children the same way. Everyone should be accommodated, which is why a third restroom that people can use at their own discretion is a perfect idea. Yet everyone was against Diamondseeker's. post.

Sometimes I wonder if some laws are not about equal rights but just to push buttons.

I'd agree with DS's idea...

 

[partgypsy]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

At the restaurant my husband works at, there are two bathrooms with a single toilet and locking door. They are not labled male and female. It is first come, first served. I think it is a good solution. Maybe there will be more creative answers to the bathroom debate as time goes on.

 

[chrono]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

At the restaurant my husband works at, there are two bathrooms with a single toilet and locking door. They are not labled male and female. It is first come, first served. I think it is a good solution. Maybe there will be more creative answers to the bathroom debate as time goes on.

I like this idea!

 

[ruby59]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

I like this idea!
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That would not work at a large seating capacity restaurant, sporting event, or mall.

I have encountered that at Starbucks, and the line becomes way too long to use the bathroom.

 

[monarch64]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

I think it's pretty obvious that the people of Poise and Depends are behind this.

 

[ruby59]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

I think it's pretty obvious that the people of Poise and Depends are behind this.
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As an older woman, yes, some of us were brought up a certain way. And it has nothing to do with prejudice, but modesty.

And to add: Some of you are all about treating everyone the same, but yet feel is is OK to call out a segment of the population. How are you any better then those you mock?

 

[chrono]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

I have encountered that at Starbucks, and the line becomes way too long to use the bathroom.

A larger venue should have more bathrooms, calculated by its capacity and therefore should be sufficient. As it is, the women's bathroom in large venues have a line long enough to put an anaconda to shame whilst the men's bathrooms are seemly always empty.

 

[ruby59]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

Are you talking about a lot of single bathrooms. How would that look? Like a line of port a johns.

And as someone up thread mentioned about added cost for a third bathroom, this would be cost prohibitive.