Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom law"
- Thread starter missy
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Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l
Hugs, missy and kenny.
Gypsy - I saw a similar story here - http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/04/25/dad-takes-daughter-to-target-to-confront-manager-on-transgender-bathroom-policy-and-isnt-happy-about-what-the-manager-tells-him/
And the FIRST thing I thought about was:
- To the dad:
1. if you're seriously thinking that when you asked your little girl the question you did not put any spin on it - whether by your tone or with HOW you asked her the question - prompting her to think or feel that there was a "right answer" you were looking for, you are very, very naive.
2. if there was anything that you felt on this subject that you felt you needed to talk to the manager about, you should have done it when your little girl was NOT with you. Because now she has really no "permission" to probe or ask you anything she may feel conflicted about. Now she knows there is ONLY one "right" answer - which is that it's not OK. And this issue - because she's so young - will probably color her views on transgender people in general.
Sad
Hugs, missy and kenny.
Gypsy - I saw a similar story here - http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/04/25/dad-takes-daughter-to-target-to-confront-manager-on-transgender-bathroom-policy-and-isnt-happy-about-what-the-manager-tells-him/
And the FIRST thing I thought about was:
- To the dad:
1. if you're seriously thinking that when you asked your little girl the question you did not put any spin on it - whether by your tone or with HOW you asked her the question - prompting her to think or feel that there was a "right answer" you were looking for, you are very, very naive.
2. if there was anything that you felt on this subject that you felt you needed to talk to the manager about, you should have done it when your little girl was NOT with you. Because now she has really no "permission" to probe or ask you anything she may feel conflicted about. Now she knows there is ONLY one "right" answer - which is that it's not OK. And this issue - because she's so young - will probably color her views on transgender people in general.
Sad
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Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l
Yeah...and the dad knows what he's doing...
He knows he's influencing her...
But disguising himself as not influencing her by saying how he told her "she must be kind to everyone."
Not to say he's a horrible person - obviously parents - most I would think - want their children to think like they do. But still - I wish there was some restraint on that on certain issues that you *know* might be your own biases.
I don't know. I'd like to think I would do that if I had children. But maybe I'd be the same way because I wouldn't think I was wrong.
But...actually, no...I think I'd know the "iffy" issues that I should let them figure out for themselves and not influence my own biases on them. It may be hard to do, but I think I would try.
Yeah...and the dad knows what he's doing...
He knows he's influencing her...
But disguising himself as not influencing her by saying how he told her "she must be kind to everyone."
Not to say he's a horrible person - obviously parents - most I would think - want their children to think like they do. But still - I wish there was some restraint on that on certain issues that you *know* might be your own biases.
I don't know. I'd like to think I would do that if I had children. But maybe I'd be the same way because I wouldn't think I was wrong.
But...actually, no...I think I'd know the "iffy" issues that I should let them figure out for themselves and not influence my own biases on them. It may be hard to do, but I think I would try.
Gypsy
Super_Ideal_Rock
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Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l
Oy.
Here's the thing. When *I* was a kid, I would have probably said what that kid said. I was taught men were predators, and strangers were all bad, and that there were 'proper' ways for people to behave.
All of that pretty much means that if I had been asked the same questions at that age, I probably would have thought the same thing.
But the question is rigged because it misses (on purpose) the fundamental issue of being transgender: your body and your brain are out of sync. So yes, your body might be male, but your mind is female. So which are you going to betray: your biology or your psyche?
If at that age you had asked me this instead: "Some people are born in the wrong bodies. They are girls in boys bodies. So they have to work harder to be girls by dressing as girls and sometimes they go through medical procedures to fix their bodies so that it becomes a girls body, they way it should have been. Do you think these people should use the girls bathroom or the boys bathroom?"
I would have thought about it and said: "If they think they are girls, and they want to be girls, then they should use the girls bathroom."
As any lawyer (or politician) knows: it's all about how you ask the question.
Oy.
Here's the thing. When *I* was a kid, I would have probably said what that kid said. I was taught men were predators, and strangers were all bad, and that there were 'proper' ways for people to behave.
All of that pretty much means that if I had been asked the same questions at that age, I probably would have thought the same thing.
But the question is rigged because it misses (on purpose) the fundamental issue of being transgender: your body and your brain are out of sync. So yes, your body might be male, but your mind is female. So which are you going to betray: your biology or your psyche?
If at that age you had asked me this instead: "Some people are born in the wrong bodies. They are girls in boys bodies. So they have to work harder to be girls by dressing as girls and sometimes they go through medical procedures to fix their bodies so that it becomes a girls body, they way it should have been. Do you think these people should use the girls bathroom or the boys bathroom?"
I would have thought about it and said: "If they think they are girls, and they want to be girls, then they should use the girls bathroom."
As any lawyer (or politician) knows: it's all about how you ask the question.
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Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l
...or any (skilled) business coach or (skilled) therapist or anybody who talks to people for a living and understands the power of words...
I love that your question gives a much more thorough explanation, even though I have no way of knowing if perhaps the dad did too but it was shortened/edited for the article (although I doubt it)....and as much as your question is so much better I'd bet even the word "should" is leading. My point being, it's just so difficult and such and art to ask truly neutral questions and the way this dad asked (at least the way it's depicted) is nowhere close to neutral.
That said, even with the improved wording and explanation, I might, as a little girl, or even as an adult, still answer "that's weird" just like the little girl did. Because all that little girls knows is that girls wear makeup, boys don't...and that little girls go to the same bathroom separate from little boys (plus everything else that you mention about being told to be weary of men, etc.) Of course it's going to be weird to her.
But that's why if you're truly interested in teaching an open mind and tolerance and acceptance this is the perfect opportunity to explore further...but that is not what this dad's intention was...his intention was to make sure his little girl agreed that men's bodies don't belong in the girl's bathroom no matter what so that he could better carry out his own views on it.
Gypsy|1463455611|4032555 said:
...or any (skilled) business coach or (skilled) therapist or anybody who talks to people for a living and understands the power of words...
I love that your question gives a much more thorough explanation, even though I have no way of knowing if perhaps the dad did too but it was shortened/edited for the article (although I doubt it)....and as much as your question is so much better I'd bet even the word "should" is leading. My point being, it's just so difficult and such and art to ask truly neutral questions and the way this dad asked (at least the way it's depicted) is nowhere close to neutral.
That said, even with the improved wording and explanation, I might, as a little girl, or even as an adult, still answer "that's weird" just like the little girl did. Because all that little girls knows is that girls wear makeup, boys don't...and that little girls go to the same bathroom separate from little boys (plus everything else that you mention about being told to be weary of men, etc.) Of course it's going to be weird to her.
But that's why if you're truly interested in teaching an open mind and tolerance and acceptance this is the perfect opportunity to explore further...but that is not what this dad's intention was...his intention was to make sure his little girl agreed that men's bodies don't belong in the girl's bathroom no matter what so that he could better carry out his own views on it.
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Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l
https://driftingthrough.com/2016/04...ning-an-open-letter-to-the-target-boycotters/
My daughter posted this to her Facebook about a week ago. Since this thread is still going, I thought I would share...
https://driftingthrough.com/2016/04...ning-an-open-letter-to-the-target-boycotters/
My daughter posted this to her Facebook about a week ago. Since this thread is still going, I thought I would share...
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