brown diamond vs topaz & its 2 sad ruby friends

[chatbandit]

my FH came back from a trip home to Europe with these 3 colored stones that are family hierlooms. His father thought he might make them into an e-ring for me but luckily, he has put zero pressure on me for that and would rather I get what I want (see my other CS thread on my hunt for the perfect yellow e-ring)! I wish I could find a way to make them into an e-ring but I don't really like the idea of a chocolate / topaz e-ring and can't find inspiring setting ideas that don't just look like a cocktail ring? As for the chipped ruby and it's smaller friend, I was heartset on a yellow diamond and yellow and red seems like it might get silly looking. I could maybe see abandoning the yellow for ruby baguettes but I don't think the stones are cut-able that way. Plus, I am not a huge fan of red. So I think I'll stick with just trying to figure out what they are and what to do with them.

on my hand for scale

Anyway, he has some paperwork with them that we've translated that identifies the big stone as a dark brown orange diamond. I find this hard to believe though and feel that it must be some form of topaz. Any eyeball guesses on carat / stone / etc? All three are possibly Lebanese or Northern African in origin as there was lots of family traveling in those areas. Apparently they're rather old, but I wish there was more story I knew!

The 2 smaller stones, including the sad chipped one! Are ID'd as rubies but now I doubt that because of the dubious larger stone. I'm unsure what to do with them given the chip. is it possible to cut chipped stones? Could they be cut into baguettes? would that be a waste? What's the best way to utilize them? Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.

 

[movie zombie]

you can always have the id of the dark brown orange diamond certified yourself.
and if it really is a dark brown orange DIAMOND i'd rock that thing silly as an e-ring.
however, you are not into orange or brown diamonds but prefer the yellow and green side.
it is great you're not getting pressured into using them and you shouldn't.
but you could have them made into pendants.
the ruby could be recut.
lucky you to be "inheriting" color stones!

 

[chatbandit]

that's helpful, thanks. i am lucky for sure. what's that in your avatar? sooo orange. love it

 

[iLander]

Send it to AGL, you never know, it could be a diamond.

 

[movie zombie]

chat, its an 8.18 Nigerian spess [garnet] and as an e-ring set in 22k gold. however, I don't wear it 24/7. it goes on as I leave the house and comes off first thing when I return home. garnet really is NOT a 24/7 stone. and the setting is quite high.

yep, an AGL cert is a definite must!
wouldn't it be just something if indeed it is a diamond?!
wowzer!
even if you didn't do an e-ring with it you could have a great pendant or RHR made with it.
and if turns out to be a topaz? still would be a great RHR or pendant.

what fun! who knows what other color stones may come your way via the family?!

 

[chatbandit]

had someone i met in a color-stone specific spot in the diamond district appraise the stones and they seem extraordinarily overvalued in my opinion. he is ALG ( i think that's it? or AGL?) certified but for some reason i dont believe him on the larger one. he said it is a fancy orange brown diamond, confirming and basically translating the certificate we had but i still am not a believer. he was trying to upsel settings and i think he took me for stupid. i still feel like it's topaz. i just dont see sparkle or fire in it. i know stepcuts dont have fire but i'm still not believing it. i want to have it appraised again. does anyone know someone who's a real expert? i know the incentive typically might be to tell you you overpaid or that you have a low quality stone so I don't mean to be skeptical i just feel in my gut it's not a diamond. seeing comparable stones was helpful though. i guess brown (orange brown and yellow brown) just dont get that much clarity -- especially darker shades.

 

[Lady_Disdain]

Did he say it was a diamond before seeing the report or after?

A step cut will sparkle less than a round but it still sparkles. I doubt a diamond of that size would be completely lifeless in the sun.

 

[Lady_Disdain]

Did he say it was a diamond before seeing the report or after?

A step cut will sparkle less than a round but it still sparkles. I doubt a diamond of that size would be completely lifeless in the sun.

 

[kenny]

I would not send the Brown one to AGL ... yet ...

GIA is the lab of choice for fancy colored diamonds.
AGL is the lab of choice for all other colored stones ...

I'd take it to a couple jewelry stores or pawn shops and have them use their diamond testers.
Then you'll know which lab to send it to.

 

[chatbandit]

it is shiny and sparkly in the sun! just not as much as i'd like. i didnt show him the report until after. so maybe that's more credible?

 

[Lady_Disdain]

it is shiny and sparkly in the sun! just not as much as i'd like. i didnt show him the report until after. so maybe that's more credible?

To me, that makes a world of difference. Saying a topaz is a diamond is a pretty tall tale, specially since he isn't selling you the stone and has little to gain from the deception. Having two people tell the exact same tale, independently, would be quite a coincidence. Like Kenny said, a diamond tester might be in order.

 

[pregcurious]

Yes, much more credible. I am cautiously excited for you.

Here's a similar diamond in a lovely 3 stone ring:
http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/index.php/jewelry/loose-diamond-111ct-emerald-cut-fancy-yellowish-brown-sI2-gorgeous-color-r4127

PS is not letting me upload the pic from David's website. It says "The upload was rejected because the uploaded file was identified as a possible attack vector." Bizarre

 

[pregcurious]

Here's iLander's thread on sending a stone to AGL:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/how-to-get-an-agl-certificate.189205/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/how-to-get-an-agl-certificate.189205/[/URL]

I recently went to AGL and GIA in person this summer. If you're in NYC, it's very straight forward to just drop it off. The building is on the corner of 47th W and 5th Avenue. You can't miss it as it's a very tall building. Just allot enough time to wait for elevators as there aren't many considering the size of the building. Also, bring your driver's license for security upon entering the building. If you're going to GIA, you may have to wait about 10 minutes before your number is called, but the waiting room is nice. AGL did not have a wait, and there isn't really a waiting room.

 

[chatbandit]

i think i went there!? omg. is there a place to get a 2nd opinion? im still in disbelief

 

[pregcurious]

There are many vendors in the building. Did you actually go to AGL, or just someone who has trained by them and worked in another store? If you go to AGL, there is a receptionist, and she/he does not give out opinions on stones. Instead, they just record something like "brown stone" when they receive your stone, and then that's it until they call you back with the results.

If you're in NYC, and can get to GIA or AGL easily, then I would definitely just get a report on your stone. You'll have to decide beforehand which one you want to go with. AGL has a Gem Brief which is $60, and is their least expensive service. For GIA, they have separate prices for reports for colored versus white diamonds.

I agree with the other posters that you should just go to a reputable vendor and have them use a diamond tester, and if it's a diamond, go to GIA. There's a list of vendors stickied in the forum menu. I would go visit David at Diamonds by Lauren because he is in NYC and is a colored diamond expert.

 

[chrono]

Yup, have the stone tested using a diamond tester first, then from there you'll know whether to send it to AGL (coloured stone) or GIA (FCD) or neither.

 

[chatbandit]

It was another one in that building no receptionist so clearly not the real deal!!

I'm becoming a little obsessed with this mystery! I've done dozens of random Internet tests but most make little sense because A) even if not a diamond, it's clearly not CZ or glass or even moissanite and B) it's colored

I finally went to a few different jewelry shops for the diamond tester and after hearing it 2x I'm starting to believe it. I am planning to go to AGL (proper) not just a certified person in the building on Monday anyway.

A few quick questions:

1-Has anyone had a stone fingerprinted whatever that means? Is that something you'd all recommend?
2- could a loupe tell me anything about it?
3- is there a way to recut it to look more special? Maybe a good cleaning is all it needs but I looove that DBL ring you linked, pregcurious! (Side note: My mother sent me the same one as she's on a crusade to get me to use it as an e-ring -- ha.)

 

[fel]

I have a dark orange brown diamond -- not the size of yours, just 2.17 carats in a brilliant cut, and it is reasonably sparkly in the right light. Also yours is lighter, which allows more sparkle. I would think a recut would help it a lot, if it is possible. You probably would not want a brilliant cut because you would lose too much material, but perhaps it could be transformed with a radiant cut?

Fel

 

[Lady_Disdain]

It was another one in that building no receptionist so clearly not the real deal!!

A lot of independent small businesses don't have receptionists.

 

[chatbandit]

It was another one in that building no receptionist so clearly not the real deal!!

A lot of independent small businesses don't have receptionists.

for sure, Lady_Disdain -- I was responding to this post, which provided some clarity for me as the building is really packed full of diamond vendors (not to mention the whole street!):

There are many vendors in the building. Did you actually go to AGL, or just someone who has trained by them and worked in another store? If you go to AGL, there is a receptionist, and she/he does not give out opinions on stones. Instead, they just record something like "brown stone" when they receive your stone, and then that's it until they call you back with the results.

 

[chatbandit]

I have a dark orange brown diamond -- not the size of yours, just 2.17 carats in a brilliant cut, and it is reasonably sparkly in the right light. Also yours is lighter, which allows more sparkle. I would think a recut would help it a lot, if it is possible. You probably would not want a brilliant cut because you would lose too much material, but perhaps it could be transformed with a radiant cut?

Fel

so helpful, thanks! I am now heartset on the DBL setting pregcurious shared. Still to be determined if I'll make it an RHR or pendant (or even an e-ring, probably not seeing as i'm falling so much for FYDs, but that's helpful to see.

One question -- what can you do with 'lost material' if anything? can it be made into pave? that would be great if it's possible. either way, I do think the cut in yours is particularly flattering given how brown / orange brown diamonds seem to have such unique shade / fire colors? (not sure if these are the right terms, but you know what i mean i hope!) the idea of recutting it makes me more excited about it.

 

[Lula]

I have a dark orange brown diamond -- not the size of yours, just 2.17 carats in a brilliant cut, and it is reasonably sparkly in the right light. Also yours is lighter, which allows more sparkle. I would think a recut would help it a lot, if it is possible. You probably would not want a brilliant cut because you would lose too much material, but perhaps it could be transformed with a radiant cut?

Fel

so helpful, thanks! I am now heartset on the DBL setting pregcurious shared. Still to be determined if I'll make it an RHR or pendant (or even an e-ring, probably not seeing as i'm falling so much for FYDs, but that's helpful to see.

One question -- what can you do with 'lost material' if anything? can it be made into pave? that would be great if it's possible. either way, I do think the cut in yours is particularly flattering given how brown / orange brown diamonds seem to have such unique shade / fire colors? (not sure if these are the right terms, but you know what i mean i hope!) the idea of recutting it makes me more excited about it.

You were given a lovely gift of some beautiful gemstones (or a diamond and some gemstones!) by your future fiance's family. My guess is that any recut would not result in enough "lost material" for pave. The "lost material" will likely end up as diamond dust slated for the end of a drill bit. So, please, please, please do not recut that stone if indeed it is a diamond. My advice is that you focus on finding the engagement ring of your dreams rather than try to make this stone something it's not. Put this stone away for safekeeping after you get it professionally evaluated and insured. Perhaps someday you will appreciate it for what it is, and it can be set into a pendant or a right-hand ring. Have you had the rubies looked at? The chipped stone may be a good candidate for a recut. You may end up with a lovely pair of rubies that would make great earring studs. But first you have to know something about the rubies -- are they treated? Are they include? How close in size are they? I would definitely not recommend that you cut them into baguettes -- that's a waste of a lot of ruby material!

 

[fel]

I'm gonna respectfully disagree with Lula. I think gems are meant to be worn and enjoyed, not kept in a safe. Chipped rubies and a diamond with a giant window are really not that exciting to wear. If you would love the diamond as a recut, and treasure it, and wear it, then why not make a beautiful piece of jewelry with a recut that will become a treasured family heirloom.

However -- I do not think you would be able to get chips out of a recut -- it would probably be dust.

Just to be clear -- my brown diamond does not "look like" a diamond to anyone except sophisticated jewelers, and I would not be happy to have chosen it as an engagement ring. (I am very happy with it as an anniversary ring -- I can wear it on the subway and no one knows I am wearing a large diamond.)

I think a quality recutter could tell you the options, and then from there you can make an informed decision. Do keep in mind that recuts have a differential effect on colored diamond then they do on clear diamonds, so you needs someone who can tell you possible outcomes. Also your diamond looks shallow, which may affect recut options (but I am no expert -- so take anything I say with a grain of salt.)

best,
Fel

 

[digdeep]

Yes, much more credible. I am cautiously excited for you.

Here's a similar diamond in a lovely 3 stone ring:
http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/index.php/jewelry/loose-diamond-111ct-emerald-cut-fancy-yellowish-brown-sI2-gorgeous-color-r4127

PS is not letting me upload the pic from David's website. It says "The upload was rejected because the uploaded file was identified as a possible attack vector." Bizarre

This setting is so beautiful! IF it is a diamond (and my guess is that it is based on info you are gathering, but get that lab report) I hope you will give it a chance to find a home as it is....no recut! Ideally find someone who has been in the business for a long time and could look closely at the cutting and tell you more about it. When it was cut, maybe even where? I'm just one of those people who feels a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.........the bush one's always fly away before I get there!! LOL!!

 

[periwinklegirl]

It was another one in that building no receptionist so clearly not the real deal!!

I'm becoming a little obsessed with this mystery! I've done dozens of random Internet tests but most make little sense because A) even if not a diamond, it's clearly not CZ or glass or even moissanite and B) it's colored

I finally went to a few different jewelry shops for the diamond tester and after hearing it 2x I'm starting to believe it. I am planning to go to AGL (proper) not just a certified person in the building on Monday anyway.

A few quick questions:

1-Has anyone had a stone fingerprinted whatever that means? Is that something you'd all recommend?
2- could a loupe tell me anything about it?
3- is there a way to recut it to look more special? Maybe a good cleaning is all it needs but I looove that DBL ring you linked, pregcurious! (Side note: My mother sent me the same one as she's on a crusade to get me to use it as an e-ring -- ha.)

Very exciting!!!

Do keep us posted!

 

[chatbandit]

short stat-heavy version: it's really a diamond.

color: orange brown not honey brown or chocolate brown or yellow brown. (though i don't know so much what that means for value).
natural, not treated or heated
clarity: VS2.
cut: poor to fair
measurements: 12.56 x 9.02
ratio: 1.39
weight: 5.96 carats
depth: 70.9%
symmetry: good
polish: fair

long version: what a wild day! i'm now coming to terms w/ the fact that it is in fact a diamond. they called it an exciting case and had me wait while someone returned from lunch. then they made a few calls. basically it became a big discussion (not at all negative, just a passionate debate) and the verdict is that it's just a really poor quality cut (possibly done in morocco / lebanon-- given FH's family's travels) and nothing against those places, but it may have been done with less than ideal tools and an outdated sensibility. also, there's the fact that it was apparently very much in need of a cleaning. it's certainly more sparkly now!

I was impressed with the 'real spot' vs the place I went last time (or the various random jewelry shops). They showed it to me in a few different ways and in fact I am starting to understand why it's so boring to the eye (or at least to mine) although i'm still very confused about the window but i guess it's related to cut. punchline: i want to have it recut (although i'm not sure anymore) but am still feeling a little mystery as they absolutely refused to give me a $ amount. is that the norm? instead (after pleading!) they gave me a very very wide range. say from my engagement ring budget (if you've seen that thread ha) up through like a car price.

i've been running around a bit dazed since learning all this -- surprised how emotional it all is! my FH is now changing his mind a little and agreeing w/ my mother that it 'should' be an e-ring. my FH cares much less than my mother, ha. so there's that confusing addition. um no ). but anyway am now on the phone with an appraiser trying to get a sense of their color knowledge and scheduling-- do you all know any that have color specialty? i feel like it looks so unimpressive but now that it's certed i'm dying to know what's up.

 

[digdeep]

YIPPEE and CONGRATULATIONS on finding out what it IS!! Give yourself some time to absorb all this as you get an appraisal.... it's been a whirlwind. Also bear in mind that appraisals can vary too........I'm happy for you! That is a special stone that isn't available for most folks these days......even with native cutting. Congrats!!

 

[chatbandit]

thanks, digdeep! you've all been so helpful and nice

i keep going back and adding stats and putting away everything then pulling it all back out and trying to make sense of it. i have about 20 tabs open and have completely neglected work this afternoon because this news has dominated my brain!

i still have lots of questions. trying to make sense of the #s for one thing. and find similar stones / settings i like. also wondering whether i can make myself get excited about it as an e-ring stone? i'm most confused about the depth -- if we cut the bottom off and were to cut it better could that create a more interesting setting? it seems that that's what makes the 'table' look less interesting? not sure if i know what i'm talking about.

why yes i am using a bobby pin to take a jeweler style photo to show you the side view-- hope that doesn't damage it somehow? figure diamonds can handle it?



post-cleaning it's a lot more sparkly. and also seems more orange to me.

 

[carmen1]

Wow - lucky you! Did you take it to AGL or GIA then? And they were able to do the testing/report that quickly? Did you have them look at the rubies too?

I'd probably still take that baby to Diamonds by Lauren (since you are in NYC), and see if David can help with a possible recut and set it into a ring that could give you the same look (with a different colored center stone) as the original inspiration ring you posted in your other thread - I think it was Snooper's ring, with side diamonds.

 

[chatbandit]

AGL not GIA! I actually managed to get them to speeed report it I paid the 350 for the full report plus negotiated them into a rush fee they apparently dont normally do. which is only because i'm persuasive and the stone debate was intriguing i think. I totally needled them w/ the (true) situation about my stone's evaluation at another vendor that was AGL certified but not them in the building last week. Immediately their ears pricked up, they asked which and began explaining the difference of AGL certified vs AGL themselves. So long story short, they were able to give me an accelerated report when I came to pick up the stone.

I dropped the red stones off too but didnt put a rush on them since I'm not as obsessed with them. I still do quite like them but I'm not fixated! If they aren't 'real' they'll be only $60 but if they are I've asked for a full report. I was really pleased by how helpful they were and how they stopped to walk me through it. I was really not shy about 'assuming the rush fee included personal explanation of the report' etc still surprised they werent able to / weren't willing to quote them price wise but told me a few appraisers to check out. I've been on and off the phone with them most of this afternoon and hopefully will find someone helpful!