Bow tie? Is this a nice oval Diamond?

[Ibrakeforpossums]

yikes!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Does it look dark like that across the belly all the time?

 

[TLW]

Does it look dark like that across the belly all the time?

I do not know, I was sent the pictures by Ritani rep, I can ask? Do you think it’s a no go?

 

[Dreamer_D]

I do not know, I was sent the pictures by Ritani rep, I can ask? Do you think it’s a no go?

There are different facet patterns for ovals. This type often has this kind of band across the belly. If those pictures were taken in high spot lighting it may be ok because the darkness would only show up in that kind of lighting and in person that area would flash a lot. But do prefer the other facet pattern that creates a more even pattern without a band like that. Garry said it’s a nice cut. It’s probably necessary to see in person.

 

[TLW]

There are different facet patterns for ovals. This type often has this kind of band across the belly. If those pictures were taken in high spot lighting it may be ok because the darkness would only show up in that kind of lighting and in person that area would flash a lot. But do prefer the other facet pattern that creates a more even pattern without a band like that. Garry said it’s a nice cut. It’s probably necessary to see in person.

The other facet pattern being a 4 main? I just can’t find a not rotated 8 that tyty333 mentioned, or a six on ritani around 70-85 points

 

[TLW]

The other facet pattern being a 4 main? I just can’t find a not rotated 8 that tyty333 mentioned, or a six on ritani around 70-85 points

0.70 Carat Oval Diamond G Color VS2 Clarity Very Good Cut | Ritani

0.7 Carat Oval Earth Diamond VG Cut G Color VS2 Clarity with diamond report number GIA #6521570387

www.ritani.com

Is this a 6 main?

 

[tyty333]

I would say that one you were sent pictures of is a no-go.

0.70 Carat Oval Diamond G Color VS2 Clarity Very Good Cut | Ritani

0.7 Carat Oval Earth Diamond VG Cut G Color VS2 Clarity with diamond report number GIA #6521570387

www.ritani.com

Is this a 6 main?

This is likely a regular 8 main (also hard to find)...you can see the arrows going North/South. 6 mains only go across the center
area of the stone and not North/South.

If you stop the video with it facing forwards, you can see the North/South arrows.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I would say that one you were sent pictures of is a no-go.



This is likely a regular 8 main (also hard to find)...you can see the arrows going North/South. 6 mains only go across the center
area of the stone and not North/South.

If you stop the video with it facing forwards, you can see the North/South arrows.

I have seen black bowties as bad in all forms of pavilion mains.
Type 1 - The proportions that get you arrows in rounds get you bowties in crown and table facets in long cuts.
Type 2 - The very deep proportions that get you dark in the table only in rounds get you table only bowties in long cuts.

 

[TLW]

I have seen black bowties as bad in all forms of pavilion mains.
Type 1 - The proportions that get you arrows in rounds get you bowties in crown and table facets in long cuts.
Type 2 - The very deep proportions that get you dark in the table only in rounds get you table only bowties in long cuts.

Loading…

www.bluenile.com

Do you think this is better? Facet pattern different and hides “bow tie” better? @tyty333

 

[TLW]

Loading…

www.bluenile.com

Do you think this is better? Facet pattern different and hides “bow tie” better? @tyty333

@Garry H (Cut Nut)

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

@Garry H (Cut Nut)

I do not think pattern is the issue as others seem to.
It's proportions.

 

[TLW]

Perhaps I am missing something.. I set proportions to what seems to be ideal: table 53-63% -seems as tho 59-60 popular
Depth- 59-63%
L/W - 1.35-1.50
Polish/symmetry excellent
Girdle- thin to slightly thick, a lot were medium to thick
No Florescense, no culet
They don’t give crown/pavillion angles for under 1ct

What am I missing in terms of proportions? I am trying to learn how to buy a stone online

I read your article- makes sense to have a grading system for “bow ties”, for buying online especially as it’s more prevalent

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Perhaps I am missing something.. I set proportions to what seems to be ideal: table 53-63% -seems as tho 59-60 popular
Depth- 59-63%
L/W - 1.35-1.50
Polish/symmetry excellent
Girdle- thin to slightly thick, a lot were medium to thick
No Florescense, no culet
They don’t give crown/pavillion angles for under 1ct

What am I missing in terms of proportions? I am trying to learn how to buy a stone online

I read your article- makes sense to have a grading system for “bow ties”, for buying online especially as it’s more prevalent

Sadly the proportions are not easily defined.
Table and depth are not enough.

 

[tyty333]

I have seen black bowties as bad in all forms of pavilion mains.
Type 1 - The proportions that get you arrows in rounds get you bowties in crown and table facets in long cuts.
Type 2 - The very deep proportions that get you dark in the table only in rounds get you table only bowties in long cuts.

Yes, I too have seen bow-ties in each faceting pattern! I try to state, once during a thread that, ...you can find good and bad stones of each type of faceting pattern. I don't think I put it in this thread, though. It would be good info to include in that Oval Education
page (or Bow-Tie Education page) that someone writes for Pricescope!

@TLW Like Garry said, table and depth are not enough (although helpful). They don't have crown/pavilion angles on over 1 carat
stones either. The problem is (I believe) that the angles will need to change depending on the faceting pattern, or that there are
just too many variables on an Oval cut stone to give one set of "Ideal" parameters.

I have had better luck with stones that receive Excellent on both polish and symmetry.

Edit
@TLW just to show you what Garry means...here is a 6 main with a black bow-tie.

Loading…

www.bluenile.com

 

[TLW]

Yes, I too have seen bow-ties in each faceting pattern! I try to state, once during a thread that, ...you can find good and bad stones of each type of faceting pattern. I don't think I put it in this thread, though. It would be good info to include in that Oval Education
page (or Bow-Tie Education page) that someone writes for Pricescope!

@TLW Like Garry said, table and depth are not enough (although helpful). They don't have crown/pavilion angles on over 1 carat
stones either. The problem is (I believe) that the angles will need to change depending on the faceting pattern, or that there are
just too many variables on an Oval cut stone to give one set of "Ideal" parameters.

I have had better luck with stones that receive Excellent on both polish and symmetry.

Edit
@TLW just to show you what Garry means...here is a 6 main with a black bow-tie.

Loading…

www.bluenile.com

Could I bother you to look at a few more please and thank you

0.81 Carat Oval Diamond E Color VS1 Clarity Very Good Cut | Ritani

0.81 Carat Oval Earth Diamond VG Cut E Color VS1 Clarity with diamond report number GIA #2527547634

www.ritani.com

0.73 Carat Oval Diamond E Color VVS2 Clarity Very Good Cut | Ritani

0.73 Carat Oval Earth Diamond VG Cut E Color VVS2 Clarity with diamond report number GIA #3515710427

www.ritani.com

0.73 Carat Oval Diamond G Color VVS1 Clarity Very Good Cut | Ritani

0.73 Carat Oval Earth Diamond VG Cut G Color VVS1 Clarity with diamond report number GIA #5526402428

www.ritani.com

Same type of facets but looked better for some reason?

 

[tyty333]

Give me a few minutes @TLW . I want to look around on Ritani a bit to see what's there.

 

[tyty333]

Could I bother you to look at a few more please and thank you

0.81 Carat Oval Diamond E Color VS1 Clarity Very Good Cut | Ritani

0.81 Carat Oval Earth Diamond VG Cut E Color VS1 Clarity with diamond report number GIA #2527547634

www.ritani.com

We can see some darkness through the center. It is a relatively small amount. This stone may have earmuffs...would need to
ask Ritani's diamond associate.

0.73 Carat Oval Diamond E Color VVS2 Clarity Very Good Cut | Ritani

0.73 Carat Oval Earth Diamond VG Cut E Color VVS2 Clarity with diamond report number GIA #3515710427

www.ritani.com

Not bad...may be a nice stone.

0.73 Carat Oval Diamond G Color VVS1 Clarity Very Good Cut | Ritani

0.73 Carat Oval Earth Diamond VG Cut G Color VVS1 Clarity with diamond report number GIA #5526402428

www.ritani.com

Same type of facets but looked better for some reason?

I think I like this one more than the previous stone you posted. Looks a little more crisp (and less mushy).



I took a look up to G+/VS2+ and $2500...found a few that might be worth a look. What are your specs?

4 mains

A nice 4 main

0.80 Carat Oval Diamond E Color VS2 Clarity Very Good Cut | Ritani

0.8 Carat Oval Earth Diamond VG Cut E Color VS2 Clarity with diamond report number GIA #5526008242

www.ritani.com

Would have to ask if this has earmuffs

0.80 Carat Oval Diamond E Color VS2 Clarity Very Good Cut | Ritani

0.8 Carat Oval Earth Diamond VG Cut E Color VS2 Clarity with diamond report number GIA #1525383545

www.ritani.com

8 mains

For an 8 main rotated, I think this will have good light return

0.76 Carat Oval Diamond F Color VS1 Clarity Very Good Cut | Ritani

0.76 Carat Oval Earth Diamond VG Cut F Color VS1 Clarity with diamond report number GIA #7516435201

www.ritani.com

Dreamstone has it for $1817. You could ask Ritani to price match (look to see if they have that).

0.76 Carat Oval Natural Diamond | Whitehouse Brothers | 7516435201

Discover the refined beauty of a 0.76 carat Oval natural diamond, featuring a graceful silhouette, F color, VS1 clarity, and an Very Good cut for superior brilliance. A timeless choice for those seeking elegance and value, perfect for engagement rings and fine jewelry. Explore this exquisite...

www.whitehousebrothers.com

 

[TLW]

We can see some darkness through the center. It is a relatively small amount. This stone may have earmuffs...would need to
ask Ritani's diamond associate.

Not bad...may be a nice stone.

I think I like this one more than the previous stone you posted. Looks a little more crisp (and less mushy).



I took a look up to G+/VS2+ and $2500...found a few that might be worth a look. What are your specs?

4 mains

A nice 4 main

0.80 Carat Oval Diamond E Color VS2 Clarity Very Good Cut | Ritani

0.8 Carat Oval Earth Diamond VG Cut E Color VS2 Clarity with diamond report number GIA #5526008242

www.ritani.com

Would have to ask if this has earmuffs

0.80 Carat Oval Diamond E Color VS2 Clarity Very Good Cut | Ritani

0.8 Carat Oval Earth Diamond VG Cut E Color VS2 Clarity with diamond report number GIA #1525383545

www.ritani.com

8 mains

For an 8 main rotated, I think this will have good light return

0.76 Carat Oval Diamond F Color VS1 Clarity Very Good Cut | Ritani

0.76 Carat Oval Earth Diamond VG Cut F Color VS1 Clarity with diamond report number GIA #7516435201

www.ritani.com

Dreamstone has it for $1817. You could ask Ritani to price match (look to see if they have that).

0.76 Carat Oval Natural Diamond | Whitehouse Brothers | 7516435201

Discover the refined beauty of a 0.76 carat Oval natural diamond, featuring a graceful silhouette, F color, VS1 clarity, and an Very Good cut for superior brilliance. A timeless choice for those seeking elegance and value, perfect for engagement rings and fine jewelry. Explore this exquisite...

www.whitehousebrothers.com

Thank you so much! I’ll check these out. Last question on this one

0.70 Carat Oval Diamond E Color VS1 Clarity Very Good Cut | Ritani

0.7 Carat Oval Earth Diamond VG Cut E Color VS1 Clarity with diamond report number GIA #7521439141

www.ritani.com

Only one could find with girdle medium to slightly thick- all the rest were medium to thick or slightly thick to thick. What do you think of this one and does girdle matter? I have a couple that I’m getting photos of, this is one
Thank you very much again

 

[newtojewels]

I'll leave the oval cut evaluation to people who know more, but I can say that anything in the medium to thick range (so medium to slightly thick, medium to thick, slightly thick to thick) is all extremely unremarkable. I wouldn't think twice about getting any of those girdles if the diamond otherwise looked good. Very thin and very thick are where you might want to think more from durability and from hiding weight, but even that wouldn't necessarily be a deal-breaker.

 

[tyty333]

Thank you so much! I’ll check these out. Last question on this one

0.70 Carat Oval Diamond E Color VS1 Clarity Very Good Cut | Ritani

0.7 Carat Oval Earth Diamond VG Cut E Color VS1 Clarity with diamond report number GIA #7521439141

www.ritani.com

Only one could find with girdle medium to slightly thick- all the rest were medium to thick or slightly thick to thick. What do you think of this one and does girdle matter? I have a couple that I’m getting photos of, this is one
Thank you very much again

Ditto @newtojewels...

@TLW
Very thin, or thin to thick (big variance) can be an issue. People also worry about it taking up extra weight, but if the LxW is good
for that carat size, not an issue. Fancy cuts are a little different than round brilliants, where you may be a little more picky about
the girdle (because there are always plenty of round brilliants out there). There are not plenty of nicely cut Ovals out there
(as we all have learned), so we give Ovals a little more grace in the girdle area.

Like I said on the other oval thread that's going on right now...

"So, let me say, you (me/anybody) can pick apart almost any oval (minus, super ideals) and you'll end up with nothing. You have
to decide what is tolerable to you. Hard, I know."

There were no pictures to that E/VS1 you just posted. It looks Sold too...did you buy it?

 

[TLW]

Ditto @newtojewels...

@TLW
Very thin, or thin to thick (big variance) can be an issue. People also worry about it taking up extra weight, but if the LxW is good
for that carat size, not an issue. Fancy cuts are a little different than round brilliants, where you may be a little more picky about
the girdle (because there are always plenty of round brilliants out there). There are not plenty of nicely cut Ovals out there
(as we all have learned), so we give Ovals a little more grace in the girdle area.

Like I said on the other oval thread that's going on right now...

"So, let me say, you (me/anybody) can pick apart almost any oval (minus, super ideals) and you'll end up with nothing. You have
to decide what is tolerable to you. Hard, I know."

There were no pictures to that E/VS1 you just posted. It looks Sold too...did you buy it?

I’ve gotten a couple so far, declined the first, will get second today to see. I think it’s important to see it first. Too much variance, and luckily, Ritani has been great with doing this

 

[tyty333]

I’ve gotten a couple so far, declined the first, will get second today to see. I think it’s important to see it first. Too much variance, and luckily, Ritani has been great with doing this

Excellent...let us know what you think and post pictures!

 

[TLW]

Excellent...let us know what you think and post pictures!

0.81 Carat Natural Diamond, Oval Cut, VVS2, E Color, GIA Certified

Rare Carat Ideal cut, 0.81 carat natural diamond, certified by GIA. E color and VVS2 clarity. Priced at $2563, 46% lower than our fair price estimate.

www.rarecarat.com

0.81 Carat Natural Diamond, Oval Cut, VVS2, D Color, GIA Certified

Rare Carat Ideal cut, 0.81 carat natural diamond, certified by GIA. D color and VVS2 clarity. Priced at $2704, 48% lower than our fair price estimate.

www.rarecarat.com

Rare caret has these less than ritani- have you used them before? What is your thoughts on these two I’ve narrowed it down to?

 

[tyty333]

I have never used Rarecarats, but I believe others on PS have. You can ask Ratini for a price match.

I prefer the second stone over the first because it has a slightly wider area of nice facets through the center.

However, as we have learned, evaluating these N/S videos with respect to the center area is difficult. I cant
really say much beyond saying I like the second one better than the first.

 

[freddyboston]

RC price dropped overnight.... Welcome to July
D has surface graining vs E with internal graining.. probably doesn't matter too much but on principal i'm not a fan when people are paying clarity premium $ for VVS.....

it's subtle but you can sometimes notice orange/brownish tones when the light hits the graining at certain angles... so can give a bit of an off note in icy white D/E stones
E on left / D on right....

 

[TLW]

RC price dropped overnight.... Welcome to July
D has surface graining vs E with internal graining.. probably doesn't matter too much but on principal i'm not a fan when people are paying clarity premium $ for VVS.....

it's subtle but you can sometimes notice orange/brownish tones when the light hits the graining at certain angles... so can give a bit of an off note in icy white D/E stones
E on left / D on right....

So you think both are not good? It is d worse because it’s surface not internal? Is d the top photo you’re showing? Thank you for helping

 

[freddyboston]

E's graining is the left zoom and more dramatic... D is less obvious photo on the right.
Graining of any kind can scatter the light a bit... not horribly but...
It's more a "peeve" of mine since they are paying VVS premium.... Theoretically one could buy a less expensive eye clean clearer non grainy Si diamond with a single feather or small black clarity grade setting inclusion and it could actually look/light perform better....

 

[TLW]

So you think both are not good? It is d worse because it’s surface not internal? Is d the top photo you’re showing? Thank you for helping

My goodness, apologies- I see now e is white flash you’re showing and d has a tone- so you prefer the e stone due to that. I had to look at your pics a few times. Thank you

 

[tyty333]

@trw You can read about graining here. Pay attention to Graining and Clarity Grades and the Conclusion

Understanding Diamond Graining: Insights & Impacts on Clarity

Graining is a common diamond characteristic that is sometimes noted on a laboratory report and may affect its clarity grade. Learn about types and impacts of diamond graining here.

www.whiteflash.com

The stones you are looking at are VVS2s.

 

[freddyboston]

My goodness, apologies- I see now e is white flash you’re showing and d has a tone- so you prefer the e stone due to that. I had to look at your pics a few times. Thank you

both pictures are snapshots from rotation clips from the 2 RC stones you linked to)

I would prefer the D if forced to choose... but both have the graining issue
Pull up both of their videos and watch the spin... E is worse.....
it could be the reason E is an E color vs a D
color is from the brown/orange vs traditional yellow

Again it's not a horrible thing but VVS are priced higher and your icy white diamond high clarity might not be a great as it could be....

Ideally you find a stone without graining....