Best options for dealing with crooked vendor?

[stags14]

I have an old engagement ring that I want to trade-in or sell. The B&M that I bought this diamond from is giving me the run around. This store has a trade-in policy in place that allows me to trade in my stone as long as the new stone I am purchasing is double the value.

I found a beautiful stone at this B&M that I wanted to purchase. When I said "OK - that''s the stone I want", the store owner said he would not allow me to trade-in my diamond towards the purchase of his nicer stones. He said that he preders a clean deal on his nicer stones. I said his policy (which is in writing) does not mention a thing about any restrictions. He said he didn''t care - that this is his store and he will sell me what he wants to sell me. This guy was actually so bold about this that he put this in an email to me. I have files a complaint with the New York State Attorney General''s office. They were aghast at what he said to me in the email and they said they simply do not allow people to do business like this in New Yok State. They accepted my compaint and that process has started.

The problem is that I have no idea how long the process will take, nor do I know what the outcome will be. I want to propse in the next few weeks, but there is no way this will be done by then... Here are my options as I see them:

1) The AG''s office makes the store sell me the diamond I want (or something similar). Problem with this is I no longer want to give this guy my business.

2) The AG''s office tells the store to take back my diamond and write me a check for the full value. Problem here is that if this happens, I guess it is possible they may not award me the full value of the stone.

3) I trade the stone in at one of the other places I am shopping at. Who knows what I will get though if I do this. Plus if I do that now, and in 2 months the AG''s office tells the guy to take back the stone and write me a check for the full value, I am out a bunch of cash.

Any advice???

 

[Ellen]

stags, so sorry to hear this, but it doesn''t surprise me at all.

As far as the AG getting involved, not sure if all states work the same, but I''m in IL. I recently filed a complaint on my mothers behalf about a purchase a store won''t take back. I got a letter a couple weeks ago saying, they really can''t do any more than send the store a letter (which they did) saying my mother has filed a complaint. If the store wants to try and make good they can, but no one can make them.

So, like I said, NY may or may not be different. If I were you, at this point, I would cut my losses and go somewhere else. As you said, you don''t really want to do business with them now anyway, and I would feel the same.

Good luck.

 

[strmrdr]

Id wait and see what the AG''s office has to say.
NY is a little different than IL when it comes to jewelry with tougher laws and the AG loves getting press even local press.
If they think the can get press mention out of it they might just do something.

 

[Regular Guy]

Stags,

Very sorry for your circumstance. Four ideas:

a) Consider contacting vendors recommended here that might provide moderated help. For example, you can see here that James Allen will consider taking diamonds in trade not bought there. Reading again...I see this is your option 3.

b) talk with your contact at the AG office about your time constraints...though, it''s hard to imagine, as you say, anything can be done in the next few weeks. See what they recommend. They must be sensitive to the fact that they are dealing with a real world situation.

c) You should work out a sort order of your options. Sounds like with your option (1), even then, you have the idea you''d even now prefer not to give this guy the business. But...to get what you want and minimize your cost, you would at least do this. So, what you do will involve inevitable trade offs, as you know.

d) Sequence your actions, based on your order of preference. Don''t lose the forest for the trees...you want to propose. Consider as one among your set of options:

1) Pay for attorney, letter, and letter head with offer of whatever you like...to include a) trade of diamond for preferred one, b) full refund, and to do so within 3 days of receipt of letter, sent certified. Name consequences that are realistic, to include named bad publicity (mention Pricescope and the naming of the vendor), prosecution in either small claims court, or more, and whatever else you can think of.

2) After you hear back from the vendor (or don''t), you either need to go for a trade in somewhere, or start fresh, and let the AG, courts, or both, do what they will do. See meanwhile what a trade in will get you.

Just some ideas.

Best wishes,

 

[starryeyed]

Stags14, this is terrible - what an ordeal! You may want to file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau also. It might help to get them involved.

So this doesn''t solve your problem though. Perhaps the thing to do is to try consigning the ring and buy something now that will be upgradable, say, from WhiteFlash. Once you sell the first ring, you can upgrade. In the meantime, you can propose. I don''t think you want to link your engagement to this ordeal, emotionally or time-wise.

There are a few online dealers that I have seen, but I haven''t done business with them:

Bullock
EstateDiamondJewelry.com
Pearlmans

Hope this helps.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

My guess is that you won''t be getting a "good deal" even if you trade in the old ring with this vendor. You probably could do better selling the ring and buying a new one from one of the vendors here. Or like someone said, if it is a certified stone, James Allen might take it off your hands. But I wouldn''t give the other jeweler my business at this point, and I''d make sure the BBB has a letter about this incident.

 

[Eva17]

Maybe if you get one of the local news channels involved, like "shame on you", you can get your story out there and resolved....


That is very frustrating. Shame on that jeweler.

 

[RockDoc]

Dear Stags


I think the first step is to make an appointment with a very credentialed and experienced gemologist appraiser to determine if the stone you already bought was misrepesented. In this type of situation I have found that more often than not, that the original sale was misrepresented.

If so, you potentially have a chance to get a complete refund. My experience in dealing with such merchants is that they are pretty difficult to get them to cooperate with you, and in order to resolve this, you may have to proceed in a much more legal fashioh which would possibly include filing a lawsuit, arbitration or mediation.

The "spend double" to upgrade is sort of a "red light" anyhow. Two of the sellers here have much more liberal upgrade, buy back or resale policies. Check out GOG and Whiteflash''s policies for that.

Another option is to write a complaint to www.ripoffreport.com. Sometimes doing that gets some action and response that is positive from a seller.

I do think you''re decision not to do business again with the original seller is a prudent one.

I am not sure though that anything much can be accomplished in the short time before xmas, short of buying another stone, and laying out all the money, and take the time to sell the one you have, either by searching out your own retail customer, or consigning it. I don''t think another seller is going to take the current stone without you taking a bit of a loss on it.

Rockdoc

 

[avlis]

wow, who is this shop?

If it were me, the last thing I would want to do is give this guy MORE of my money. Even if you force the sale of this stone to you with full value of your trade in, odds are the guy will try to give you a bad upgrade stone. Obviously after-the sale service will be zero.

Maye try to sell your current stone via other means, and use that money elsewhere. in the meantime, spend an hour or two informing other consumers who this guy is and what your experience is, on diamond/jewelry site, BBB, consumer advocate sites and the like.

also, some local TV stations like to take on problems like this. you may want to check into something like that. I would imagine a bunch of bad press may make this guy think about giving you a refund.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 12/9/2006 11:08:04 AM
Author: RockDoc
Dear Stags


I think the first step is to make an appointment with a very credentialed and experienced gemologist appraiser to determine if the stone you already bought was misrepesented. In this type of situation I have found that more often than not, that the original sale was misrepresented.

If so, you potentially have a chance to get a complete refund. My experience in dealing with such merchants is that they are pretty difficult to get them to cooperate with you, and in order to resolve this, you may have to proceed in a much more legal fashioh which would possibly include filing a lawsuit, arbitration or mediation.

The ''spend double'' to upgrade is sort of a ''red light'' anyhow. Two of the sellers here have much more liberal upgrade, buy back or resale policies. Check out GOG and Whiteflash''s policies for that.

Another option is to write a complaint to www.ripoffreport.com. Sometimes doing that gets some action and response that is positive from a seller.

I do think you''re decision not to do business again with the original seller is a prudent one.

I am not sure though that anything much can be accomplished in the short time before xmas, short of buying another stone, and laying out all the money, and take the time to sell the one you have, either by searching out your own retail customer, or consigning it. I don''t think another seller is going to take the current stone without you taking a bit of a loss on it.

Rockdoc

I love this advice!! It seems very likely that a man such as this would not want to be cheated back the way he cheated you in the first place..... now hes'' going to have to give you credit for what you thought you got and going to get back what you really got LOL In a way it''s really funny - I hope you get it appraised!

 

[Ellen]

Date: 12/9/2006 12:53:02 PM
Author: Cehrabehra
I love this advice!! It seems very likely that a man such as this would not want to be cheated back the way he cheated you in the first place..... now hes'' going to have to give you credit for what you thought you got and going to get back what you really got LOL In a way it''s really funny - I hope you get it appraised!

It would be good.

After thinking about it, in the off chance it is what it''s supposed to be, it would be almost as good if the AG really could get this guy to make good on the offer he''s now refusing, and then the OP could just say, Nah, changed my mind.

 

[stags14]

I have a good friend that is a senior partner at one of the biggest law-firms in town. He advised me to shy away from making this thing "public" via newspaper or television station. While it is nearly 100% certain that I would never lose a slander/libel case, that does not prevent this guy from filing one and me having to defend it. That is not something I that I really want to waste my time with quite honestly. Let the attorney general's office do it's thing is his advice. Depending on what happens with the AG's office, he then offered to step in and formalize a letter to the store and it's attorney demanding a full refund. For your reading pleasure, below is the store owners email resonse to me when I inquired as to why I was not being allowed to follow the trade-in policy.

In all honesty, purchasing from an online retailer is something I need to get a bit more comfortable with.... What happens if there is a maintenance issue? What do I do about taking it somewhere for maintenance/cleaning? After they ship me the ring and it is already mounted, can (and should) I take it to an appraiser to make sure I got what I paid for?


Store Owner's email response:

You are being allowed to follow the trade in policy. The trade in policy states that you can upgrade your diamond toward a new diamond of double the value. That's all it says, there are no specifics as to which diamonds you can upgrade to, nor is it written that you can take any diamond from my inventory without approval from the management. Christy couldn't force you to buy the diamond she was showing you last night before you had decided to compare the diamond to other online diamonds and my customers can't force me to sell them whatever they choose either. After reviewing the transaction with Christy I decided that this was not a good transaction for the store at all.

It has to be beneficial for both parties involved.

This diamond is an in-demand stone right now and I won't be able to replace it before the holidays. The price is $1400 lower than similar diamonds on Bluenile, which everyone claims, is the lowest price available for diamonds.
This diamond will sell very fast and I prefer a clean deal so I can sell it outright. The trade in policy we have is not a money making process for us, generally we lose money until we sell the trade in diamond. We only offer this
as a service to our previous customers; sometimes we have to make stipulations in order prevent us from being too hurt on transactions.

We'll honor the trade in policy however it will have to be on diamonds that best work for this transaction. Certain hard to replace diamonds won't work for us with your trade in. Diamonds are very rare and hard to replace and I have to cautious because I could lose opportunities to make a living when I haphazardly sell diamonds without examining profit margins. Consumers examine how they spend their money and I must examine how I sell my diamonds.

If you choose to take of advantage of the trade in policy I'll set-aside diamonds that best fit in the trade in program for you. This way you know where you stand upfront.

 

[stags14]

Regular Guy,

Thanks for the link to JamesAllen''s trade-in policy. The problem is that the stone that I purchased is EGL certified. It does not appear to fit into a category of stone that they would accept.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Just an answer to your question about buying online. Buy the STONE online, and then have it set wherever you are comfortable. That's what we did. Although, I would have had it set by my vendor if I had found a setting there. Most any jeweler can do maintenance and repair.

And, Blue Nile is NOT the least expensive source of diamonds. In my searches over the last several months for a ring and earring stones, I found lower prices for ideal cut stones at Good Old Gold and a few other PS vendors. Plus, there is much more customer service from one of the vendors like GOG who actually has a real jewelry store as well.

(ETA: His email resonse is a crock if I EVER heard one! Don't buy anything from this guy! Just try to sell the current ring on your own.)

 

[Eva17]

What garbage!!

Who would shop anywhere that you knew your trade up value was going to be,
ONLY on a stone the retailer deems reasonable for a fair trade up. What Bull.....

This guy deserves to be outed!

 

[Ellen]

Date: 12/9/2006 2:10:16 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
Just an answer to your question about buying online. Buy the STONE online, and then have it set wherever you are comfortable. That''s what we did. Although, I would have had it set by my vendor if I had found a setting there. Most any jeweler can do maintenance and repair.

And, Blue Nile is NOT the least expensive source of diamonds. In my searches over the last several months for a ring and earring stones, I found lower prices for ideal cut stones at Good Old Gold and a few other PS vendors. Plus, there is much more customer service from one of the vendors like GOG who actually has a real jewelry store as well.

(ETA: His email resonse is a crock if I EVER heard one! Don''t buy anything from this guy! Just try to sell the current ring on your own.)

Ditto.

And his response is a CROCK indeed. The trade in policy is not a money maker...PUHLEASE.

 

[stags14]

Starryeyed,

I also plan on filing a complaint with the BBB after I have recieved feedback from the AG''s office. Part of me really wants to publicly "out" this guy and part of me says it is not worth risking the possible headaches that may ensue.

I have a great contact that works at the Buffalo News and I spoke with him. He told the columnist that rights the "newspower" issues about the situation and she is very anxious to write this article. I also have a friend that is related to one of the news station''s consumer fraud reporters. Both are options that are available for me to pursue. Both television and newspaper think this would make a great story at Holiday time. (I have coached youth travel hockey for 16 years - and have been very fortunate to develop some great friendships/contacts with a great number of parents that are employed in a wide variety of professions. Every now and again it is nice to be able to call in a favor or two.)

 

[stags14]

RockDoc,

I live in the Buffalo, NY area. Any advice on where I can find a top-notch appraiser?

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 12/9/2006 2:03:53 PM
Author: stags14
In all honesty, purchasing from an online retailer is something I need to get a bit more comfortable with.... What happens if there is a maintenance issue? What do I do about taking it somewhere for maintenance/cleaning? After they ship me the ring and it is already mounted, can (and should) I take it to an appraiser to make sure I got what I paid for?

I wouldn''t want to go public either, but I''d definitely go the appraisal/refund route. I wouldn''t want to do business with him anymore either.

as for buying online and maintenance - GOG is on long island I believe and he is a wonderful and fun man... if you bought from him (I''m assuming you live in the city?) it would be close enough to visit for this... IMO he''s the best of all worlds... you can go into a jewelry store, talk to a man who really knows his stuff, pick a stone and get internet pricing! And yes, I''d get it appraised afterwards... but first I''d get the one you have appraised!

 

[Cehrabehra]

this part really cracked me up:
We'll honor the trade in policy however it will have to be on diamonds that best work for this transaction. Certain hard to replace diamonds won't work for us with your trade in. Diamonds are very rare and hard to replace and I have to cautious because I could lose opportunities to make a living when I haphazardly sell diamonds without examining profit margins. Consumers examine how they spend their money and I must examine how I sell my diamonds.
made me think - well WHY didn't you think of this when you bought the original diamond you dumb***!!

ETA: "you" being the jeweler not the OP!! lol

 

[stags14]

Date: 12/9/2006 3:35:21 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 12/9/2006 2:03:53 PM
Author: stags14
In all honesty, purchasing from an online retailer is something I need to get a bit more comfortable with.... What happens if there is a maintenance issue? What do I do about taking it somewhere for maintenance/cleaning? After they ship me the ring and it is already mounted, can (and should) I take it to an appraiser to make sure I got what I paid for?

I wouldn''t want to go public either, but I''d definitely go the appraisal/refund route. I wouldn''t want to do business with him anymore either.

as for buying online and maintenance - GOG is on long island I believe and he is a wonderful and fun man... if you bought from him (I''m assuming you live in the city?) it would be close enough to visit for this... IMO he''s the best of all worlds... you can go into a jewelry store, talk to a man who really knows his stuff, pick a stone and get internet pricing! And yes, I''d get it appraised afterwards... but first I''d get the one you have appraised!

Cehrabehra,

I live in the Buffalo, NY area - a 6-8 hour drive from Long Island. I wish I were closer!

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 12/9/2006 3:38:14 PM
Author: stags14

Cehrabehra,

I live in the Buffalo, NY area - a 6-8 hour drive from Long Island. I wish I were closer!

I''m sorry - then what I''d do is what DS suggested - have it set/mounted locally! Best of luck!!

 

[stags14]

Date: 12/9/2006 3:42:13 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

I''m sorry - then what I''d do is what DS suggested - have it set/mounted locally! Best of luck!!

You would advise against buying the stone and setting from an online vendor? It seems that if I went that route, it would be much easier to get the stone in time for Christmas. If I were to buy the stone and have it mounted from a vendor such as Whiteflash, would I then be able to have a mounted stone appraised?

 

[starryeyed]

What''s odd to me Stags14 is that, as the owner states the policy, there are no exceptions. Then all of a sudden there are exceptions if the deal doesn''t suit him. I can appreciate that he needs to make money, but then he should state up-front that the the policy is subject to owner''s discretion. If you knew the details in advance, you might have made a different decision about the inital purchase.

I am not a lawyer, but this sounds like false advertising, misrepresentation and unfair business practice.

I know you probably won''t want to do business with this guy, but before you contacted the AG''s office, did you by any chance, take him up on his offer to show you diamonds that "fit" with the trade-up policy? I would be interested to see what the difference is. I wonder what he would say if the diamond didn''t sell by Christmas.

 

[:)]

Stags14, I am so sorry you are having to deal with this, especially if you are right on the verge of proposing - how incredibly stressful. Would you mind posting the specs on the diamond you have? (shape, color, carat weight, depth, table, crown height and pavillion height - these should all be on your EGL report - I am also assuming it is not EGL USA?). He is basically saying he didn''t sell you what he feels is the highest quality stone and this is why he won''t take it back (or just that it is not as high a quality as the one you want). I am wondering if this is truly the case, or if possibly there would be some benefit to getting it regraded by another lab (Hence raising resell value or helping with the trade in problem).


NY appraisers..
https://www.pricescope.com/appraisers_NY.aspx

 

[Regular Guy]

Stags,

There are advantages & disadvantages to having a local jeweler set a diamond bought from afar. Basically, the disadvantages concern who is responsible for any damage that could, however unlikely, occur to the diamond while set. You can get JM coverage for the process, but it's somewhat tedious, and sounds like you don't' have the time. Alternately, people do move all the time, and need ring maintenance, and on that basis, it's reasonable to seek it from a vendor you've never gone to before for those services. Make a new friend after the fact. WF and others, including GOG...doing the whole thing may be the way to go.

But, maybe after you take one more shot, giving your guy three days warning to make good, with your friends letter. Despite your store's e-mail to you not being in your interest, it says in plain language what he feels his interests are, and I don't know you'll win anything from him. But threatening him could work. I'd stick wiith my original advice, absenting JA as an option. Pursing your vendor for selling you something it was not is a new wrinkle I'm not sure I'd bother pursuing. I'd keep it simple.

 

[stags14]

Date: 12/9/2006 3:57:07 PM
Author: starryeyed
What''s odd to me Stags14 is that, as the owner states the policy, there are no exceptions. Then all of a sudden there are exceptions if the deal doesn''t suit him. I can appreciate that he needs to make money, but then he should state up-front that the the policy is subject to owner''s discretion. If you knew the details in advance, you might have made a different decision about the inital purchase.

I am not a lawyer, but this sounds like false advertising, misrepresentation and unfair business practice.

I know you probably won''t want to do business with this guy, but before you contacted the AG''s office, did you by any chance, take him up on his offer to show you diamonds that ''fit'' with the trade-up policy? I would be interested to see what the difference is. I wonder what he would say if the diamond didn''t sell by Christmas.

The stones he wanted to try and sell me were much much lower in quality. Terrible stones that I simply would not buy. I went to him 3 times to try and be reasonable and get him to change his mind about the trade-in. He wanted nothing of the sort and this is how it ended with him:

Email I sent to him after my final visit to his store:

I just came from your store. I spoke with your wife - she indicated she was the manager of the store. I
wanted to try one more time to purchase the diamond I am interested in (the dimond was still there and
your wife brought it out). I told your wife I wanted to trade-in my old stone and apply its value($3150)
towards the purchase of the new one (as per your policy). Your wife again informed me that I was not
being allowed to trade-in my stone for that particular stone. She confirmed this by making a phone call to
you while I waited.

I was hoping that you would change your mind and honor your policy as it is written. Because you have
decided not to do this, my next course of action is to lodge formal complaints with the New York State
Attorney General''s Office along with the Better Business Bureau. I have also contacted a local Television
News station''s consumer help-line.

In no way did I want to go down this road. I simply want to trade-in my old diamond and apply its value
towards the purchase of the diamond that I picked out (1.21, SI1, G, $6499, Hearts & Arrows). I
still want that diamond very much so and I am hoping that you will change your mind and honor your
trade-in policy as it is written.

This is his response to me:
Stags14,
Marisa told me about your threats while in our store and I prefer that you don''t contact me directly anymore and I would like you not to come in our store. You should have your attorney contact our attorney at the following number and hopefully they''ll come to a resolution together...
Regards,
Store Owner

This is my response back to him:
Store Owner,

In no way did I threaten your store, you, your wife, or your employees. I did tell her I would be lodging
formal complaints with the New York State Attorney General''s office, The Better Business Bureau, and the
a local television news stations consumer help-line.
I will no longer contact you directly.

 

[stags14]

Date: 12/9/2006 4:08:21 PM
Author:
Stags14, I am so sorry you are having to deal with this, especially if you are right on the verge of proposing - how incredibly stressful. Would you mind posting the specs on the diamond you have? (shape, color, carat weight, depth, table, crown height and pavillion height - these should all be on your EGL report - I am also assuming it is not EGL USA?).

EGL# 2327517128 (July 30, 2003)
0.85 Cts
6.07-6.02 x 3.80mm
Depth: 62.9%
Table: 57%
Crown Height 15%
Pavillion Depth: 44%
Girdle: Med Fac
Polish: Very Good
Symm: Very Good
Culet: None
Clar: SI1
Grain: Nil
Color: I
Flour: Moderate Blue

I have had a few other local retailers look at it and they said it appears to be a relatively decent stone. They are just not willing to give me anything close to what I would have gotten on trade-in ($3150 trade-in value).

 

[kcoursolle]

Arg, this man at the B&M is a really something... I''m so sorry you are going through this. I don''t have any better advice to give that what you''ve received here, but I just wanted to say that I''ll be crossing my fingers that things work out for you. You might want to talk to Bill Pearlman about consigning your diamond...I''m not sure I would personally ever want to work with your local guy ever again. Yes, you will loose money on your purchase, but purchasing a diamond online is cheaper and you will save money there to make up for it. Most of us here who have worked with ps trusted vendors such as goodoldgold, whiteflash, jamesallen, pearlmans, etc. have had wonderful experiences.

 

[:)]

Looks like it was graded by EGL Israel. It gets a 4.6 on the Holloway Cut Advisor (under tools button). I am not sure if getting it regraded will help. Jeez, I hope you get this guy. He shouldn''t have sold something he wasn''t willing to take back in the first place (given that he has a trade in policy). And if he wasn''t willing to take all trade ins, then he should have given that to you in writing prior to the point of sale.

I think the appraisal is probably the best thing. EGL Israel has a reputation for being ''soft'' with grading (meaning overstating clarities and colors) - I am thinking the appraisal likely will show it is a lower clarity or color or both and you may be able to get a refund based on having sold a stone that wasn''t ''as advertised''. I am not sure of the legalities/arguments he can make ("well I have a report from a lab that says it is this''), but using a qualified master appraiser will probably be your best tool to fighting this.
Others will come along and give their thoughts too - hopefully we will be able to help you out.