August Vintage Rounds & OEC owners--Kozibe & other question

[catia]

Hi, I am wanting AVR owners to chime in here, I want to know if the AVR's with a culet have the Kozibe effect???

I LOVE OEC's--I know the traditional "old cut" original OEC's often have this feature & I LOVE seeing the kozibe effect--
I also know the AVR's are cut for light performance & do not know if this will allow for Kozibe effect.

I've read so many posts here over the past months & have done hundreds of searches--I see clearly that AVC's often DO have Kozibe--but what about AVR's?

I want to see some better--or more real life views of the AVR's set. I've watched so many video's it's ridiculous.

I love the tall crown & kozibe--can this happen in an AVR with a culet???

Did GOG remove the tall crown?

Thanks!!!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Re: August Vintage Rounds & OEC owners--Kozibe & other quest

I think AVRs should show the effect. How big a stone are we talking about? I can't see it with my naked eyes in my under 1ct OECs.

 

[bright ice]

Re: August Vintage Rounds & OEC owners--Kozibe & other quest

Most don't have a culets and I think you get the effects only by having one.

 

[InnaR]

Re: August Vintage Rounds & OEC owners--Kozibe & other quest

I owned an AVR and i did not see the effect. I think that the reason is the absence of culet. I did see the effect in the AVC, but it was different from the kozibe i saw in the old stones. OMCs and OECs have open culets that are round and by reflecting in the facets they often create a quilt pattern. The AVCs have open culets in the shape of the long narrow rectangular and the kozibe effect in those looks very different.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8917/


You need to see one to decide if you like it or not.

 

[ericad]

Re: August Vintage Rounds & OEC owners--Kozibe & other quest

Kozibe effect is the culet reflecting around in the stone (looks like little circles of confetti reflecting around the crown of the diamond - in the first image below, see the bright yellow reflection as an example of what to look for).

It's most apparent in OMCs, but OECs exhibit this quality as well when the culet is large enough. Stones with small culets won't show this effect as dramatically, if at all. It's all relative to the size of the culet and the cut of the stone (some stones have large culets but the way they're cut doesn't result in Kozibe.)

Here are some examples of OMC's exhibiting Kozibe, for anyone new to the subject (these are previously sold items.)

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: August Vintage Rounds & OEC owners--Kozibe & other quest

If you buy an AVR, you can have the culet facet cut. I asked this in the past. You'd probably have to pay for a new lab report if you ever wanted to sell, though. I would probably have it cut if I bought one large enough for a ring stone.

 

[catia]

Re: August Vintage Rounds & OEC owners--Kozibe & other quest

Anyone here who has an AVR with a culet who can comment?

You most certainly can buy an AVR w/ a culet, some have 'em & some do not-just look at the pics on gog site, I'd not even be considering an AVR if it didn't have a culet.

***though the thought of having the option to get a culet cut into the stone if it doesn't have one is mighty cool.

I'm wanting to see *specifically* AVR's--WITH culets already set & in real world lighting, lol not the glam shots with special lighting--

I've seen plenty of AVC's & know you get the kozibe, you can even see it in the ASET & diamxray etc lol.

I gotta know about the AVR's & kozibe.

 

[wintotty]

Re: August Vintage Rounds & OEC owners--Kozibe & other quest

If you buy an AVR, you can have the culet facet cut. I asked this in the past. You'd probably have to pay for a new lab report if you ever wanted to sell, though. I would probably have it cut if I bought one large enough for a ring stone.

Why would you have the culet facet cut? I have no knowledge on the antique-style diamonds, and I'm hoping to get my hands on the AVR (4carat range), I want to know why some people prefer to have the large culet.....so I won't miss out on them

 

[rubybeth]

Re: August Vintage Rounds & OEC owners--Kozibe & other quest

If you buy an AVR, you can have the culet facet cut. I asked this in the past. You'd probably have to pay for a new lab report if you ever wanted to sell, though. I would probably have it cut if I bought one large enough for a ring stone.

Why would you have the culet facet cut? I have no knowledge on the antique-style diamonds, and I'm hoping to get my hands on the AVR (4carat range), I want to know why some people prefer to have the large culet.....so I won't miss out on them

You'd have it cut to have the kozibe effect, which is the reflection of the cutlet as in the photos in erica's post above. The AVRs that don't have a large cutlet won't have the kozible effect, and that is what some people love about the genuine old cuts. If you love the AVRs as is, then no problem!

 

[bunnycat]

Re: August Vintage Rounds & OEC owners--Kozibe & other quest

I've seen some of the AVR's with culet and some without. The one we considered for my e-ring didn't have a culet, or it was miniscule.

Erica pointed out that the presence of a culet doesn't guarantee kozibe (or that's the way I read it), but they are awfully cool, I admit!

I can't remember when I read about them if it occurs in slightly steeper cuts and what kind of angles are best for them. I've seen stones where there seems to be too much of a good thing, but also stones where it's way cool.

 

[ariel144]

Re: August Vintage Rounds & OEC owners--Kozibe & other quest

Here is an amazing OEC on GOG with the Kozibe effect. It is an antique diamond with premium optics and the bonus is a video to go with it. Notice the depth of the stone 68% with that small table. Too bad it is so "warm" U/V. 5carats though. "One of the best antique cuts" he's ever seen.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8140/

http://vimeo.com/22750793

 

[Gypsy]

Re: August Vintage Rounds & OEC owners--Kozibe & other quest

http://www.engagementringsdirect.com/0.93-carat-g-vvs2-a-cut-beyond-cushion-cut-diamond-gid-15231.html Check this beauty out. Kobize, beautiful culet and NO maltese cross under the table! I'm in love.

And then there is this one, which I think would be the perfect cushion for me: http://www.engagementringsdirect.com/this-cut-beyond-cushion-brilliant-has-been-sold.-gid-67559.html Kobize, culet and that fabulous petal pattern under the table.


I had to share!

 

[Enerchi]

Re: August Vintage Rounds & OEC owners--Kozibe & other quest

http://www.engagementringsdirect.com/0.93-carat-g-vvs2-a-cut-beyond-cushion-cut-diamond-gid-15231.html Check this beauty out. Kobize, beautiful culet and NO maltese cross under the table! I'm in love.

And then there is this one, which I think would be the perfect cushion for me: http://www.engagementringsdirect.com/this-cut-beyond-cushion-brilliant-has-been-sold.-gid-67559.html Kobize, culet and that fabulous petal pattern under the table.


I had to share!

yummy!!! Gypsy you are a temptress! Those are gorgeous stones...

 

[catia]

Re: August Vintage Rounds & OEC owners--Kozibe & other quest

Holy cow those links are to some GEORGEOUS rocks.

Ariel--I would SOOOO LOVE that GOG 5ct one, but wayyy out of my price range--but thank you so much for posting it, that is seriously a DREAM rock if I ever saw one!

So in reality, which brings me down quite a few carats, I'm looking for about a 1ct with Kozibe, somewhere around the spread range of 6.25-6.5mm.
Somewhere around $4500, which makes GOG an impossibility unless I get a seriously included stone, (there was a H that was in price range, but so included, just no way for me to be OK with it, despite light performance).
I wish they had sales cuz there are a couple I'd love but 1k out of my budget even with WT discount & I've heard GOG doesn't discount or change their prices from what is listed.

I've been looking & reading for several months now, even viewed some james allen stones (cushion brilliants with culet but unfortuneately no kozibe), but they just weren't "it", cushions seem so difficult also in antique cut (absolutelt do not want crushed ice modern cut)-

I also went in person to a few places & don't want that experience again, because it's worse than dealing with used car salesmen LOL.
No "maul" stores for me thank you!

-I've viwed so many OEC's online & then saw GOG's OEC's--did not even know they had them til last month--knew about the august vintage cusions--buit those OEC's blew me away--that's why I am wondering about the kozibe in their stones--

I want eye clean. Lower color doesn't bother me, I like the old lace feel--but inclusions bring me down.

I am cool with lower colors, J-N maybe even P & really want a GIA or AGS cert to go with my rock.

Also, to be honest, I do not feel secure about the other certs, like EGL when spending this type of $$, since their grading is looser & it bums me out, most of the OEC's seem to have them, which is making my search harder.
Also haven't seen many ASETs on OEC's.
Personally, I don't want the hassel of having to send a stone to gia myself to find it's not what I intended to purchase.
The time frames for returns from most vendors wouldn't give me enough time to send to GIA & it's just an added hassel I don't want when trying to purchase this important.

Anyone understand why most of these are egl as opposed to ags or gia?

Aside from trying to get it graded looser than what it is from gia? I've read and been told directly for example that if an egl has a grade something like J-VS1 to expect it in reality to be a GIA l-m si1 at best. When I compare EGL prices to the lower certs-like in the example above---
I see that it doesn't in reality cost more for a gia certed stone, when you take into consideration the grades will be 2 lower, or more--I see now that the EGLs stones actually cost more than a GIA of *comparable*grade.
I'd be ok with a gia grade of M-si1 (if it were eyeclean in the middle)-I just want to know what I am getting for real

-so why don't they just send them to gia or ags? the cost isn't prohibitive--is it really just a matter of looser grading and people not understanding the looser grading--
I understand some don't care what type of cert it has as long as they like the way it looks to their eye--and I 'get' that, but for me, i'm not comfortable stepping outside of AGS or GIA, so am trying to understand. I've read many many posts on this site where people bought egl, or even non certed off ebay (i am not willing to do that) & sent it to GIA themselves, some have had good experience & many have not. Just trying to learn here.

This will be the only diamond I ever purchase, it's for an E-ring. I'm just exhausted from the search at this point, it's not fun anymore, & I don't want to have to do this again, there's too much to have to learn & think about, & I am so thankful I found this site, because it is a wealth of info for the cut types I am looking for. I thank all of you so much for posting what you do!!!

I could also do a cushion that looks like the one posted above by gypsy--that's beautiful--I tried to look on that site before & could not find pics of stones--are there more like that???

 

[Rhea]

Re: August Vintage Rounds & OEC owners--Kozibe & other quest

Anyone understand why most of these are egl as opposed to ags or gia?
-so why don't they just send them to gia or ags? the cost isn't prohibitive--is it really just a matter of looser grading and people not understanding the looser grading--

This will be the only diamond I ever purchase, it's for an E-ring.

I could also do a cushion that looks like the one posted above by gypsy--that's beautiful--I tried to look on that site before & could not find pics of stones--are there more like that???

GIA isn't kind to old cuts. I recently had one appraised and it came back with no mention of it being an older cut, which I wanted for insurance purposes, and with a "fair" grading. If I understand insurance correctly, this now means that if the stone were lost or damaged and my insurance company did like for like that I could end up with a low colour, Modern Round Brilliant, with poor cut and symmetry. No thank you. I'd rather have an appraisal that specifically mentions it's an older cut and then judges it for what it is compared to starting off with the assumption that are rounds are the same and should be graded equally.

My partner thought it'd be the only diamond he ever purchased. He was right. But it's not the only diamond that was funded from our accounts. I bought my own wedding band and earrings I imagine there will be more in your future!

ERD antique style cushion search here: http://www.engagementringsdirect.com/a-cut-beyond-antique-cushion-diamonds/

 

[Rhea]

Re: August Vintage Rounds & OEC owners--Kozibe & other quest

Engagement rings direct doesn't seem to have any of their cushion cuts in your price range. The lowest priced one was about $6,300 for a 0.93 carat with a 5.95 mm spread.

Stunning and in your price range at $3,885. EGL report pending though. Maybe ask the vendor if they can get a GIA report. http://jewelsbyericagrace.smugmug.com/Jewelry/Loose-Diamonds/101-Old-European-Cut-Diamond/21631859_Jj2Vxr#!i=1725166804&k=6mwFF6W

Another at the correct mm size, colour, and a bit over budget at $5,040. EGL report though. http://jewelsbyericagrace.smugmug.com/Jewelry/Loose-Diamonds/106ct-Old-European-Cut-Diamond/20294765_hSX9Fx#!i=1604765343&k=hkBJKrN

Another with EGL report, but fits your price, size and colour requirements: http://jewelsbyericagrace.smugmug.com/Jewelry/Loose-Diamonds/107-Loose-Old-European-Cut/18272664_7WZj5p#!i=1405891895&k=M5RN6n6

Your budget and wants do seem to be a bit at odds with each other. GOG and ERD don't have any of the newly cut antique style stones you like in your size and budget, but they do GIA and AGS. Antique vendors have the budget, size, and look you're going for, but they use EGL.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: August Vintage Rounds & OEC owners--Kozibe & other quest

I could also do a cushion that looks like the one posted above by gypsy--that's beautiful--I tried to look on that site before & could not find pics of stones--are there more like that???

Call Mark (don't email) and tell him what you want. His ACB are MUCH more reasonable in price than AVCs. I think since you are willing to give on color he will likely be able to find you something lovely. Best,

 

[ericad]

Re: August Vintage Rounds & OEC owners--Kozibe & other quest

Holy cow those links are to some GEORGEOUS rocks.

Ariel--I would SOOOO LOVE that GOG 5ct one, but wayyy out of my price range--but thank you so much for posting it, that is seriously a DREAM rock if I ever saw one!

So in reality, which brings me down quite a few carats, I'm looking for about a 1ct with Kozibe, somewhere around the spread range of 6.25-6.5mm.
Somewhere around $4500, which makes GOG an impossibility unless I get a seriously included stone, (there was a H that was in price range, but so included, just no way for me to be OK with it, despite light performance).
I wish they had sales cuz there are a couple I'd love but 1k out of my budget even with WT discount & I've heard GOG doesn't discount or change their prices from what is listed.

I've been looking & reading for several months now, even viewed some james allen stones (cushion brilliants with culet but unfortuneately no kozibe), but they just weren't "it", cushions seem so difficult also in antique cut (absolutelt do not want crushed ice modern cut)-

I also went in person to a few places & don't want that experience again, because it's worse than dealing with used car salesmen LOL.
No "maul" stores for me thank you!

-I've viwed so many OEC's online & then saw GOG's OEC's--did not even know they had them til last month--knew about the august vintage cusions--buit those OEC's blew me away--that's why I am wondering about the kozibe in their stones--

I want eye clean. Lower color doesn't bother me, I like the old lace feel--but inclusions bring me down.

I am cool with lower colors, J-N maybe even P & really want a GIA or AGS cert to go with my rock.

Also, to be honest, I do not feel secure about the other certs, like EGL when spending this type of $$, since their grading is looser & it bums me out, most of the OEC's seem to have them, which is making my search harder.
Also haven't seen many ASETs on OEC's.
Personally, I don't want the hassel of having to send a stone to gia myself to find it's not what I intended to purchase.
The time frames for returns from most vendors wouldn't give me enough time to send to GIA & it's just an added hassel I don't want when trying to purchase this important.

Anyone understand why most of these are egl as opposed to ags or gia?

Aside from trying to get it graded looser than what it is from gia? I've read and been told directly for example that if an egl has a grade something like J-VS1 to expect it in reality to be a GIA l-m si1 at best. When I compare EGL prices to the lower certs-like in the example above---
I see that it doesn't in reality cost more for a gia certed stone, when you take into consideration the grades will be 2 lower, or more--I see now that the EGLs stones actually cost more than a GIA of *comparable*grade.
I'd be ok with a gia grade of M-si1 (if it were eyeclean in the middle)-I just want to know what I am getting for real

-so why don't they just send them to gia or ags? the cost isn't prohibitive--is it really just a matter of looser grading and people not understanding the looser grading--
I understand some don't care what type of cert it has as long as they like the way it looks to their eye--and I 'get' that, but for me, i'm not comfortable stepping outside of AGS or GIA, so am trying to understand. I've read many many posts on this site where people bought egl, or even non certed off ebay (i am not willing to do that) & sent it to GIA themselves, some have had good experience & many have not. Just trying to learn here.

This will be the only diamond I ever purchase, it's for an E-ring. I'm just exhausted from the search at this point, it's not fun anymore, & I don't want to have to do this again, there's too much to have to learn & think about, & I am so thankful I found this site, because it is a wealth of info for the cut types I am looking for. I thank all of you so much for posting what you do!!!

I could also do a cushion that looks like the one posted above by gypsy--that's beautiful--I tried to look on that site before & could not find pics of stones--are there more like that???

I can't speak for other dealers, but we use EGL because it's the standard for antique stones. GIA is better, but EGL is what's used in the old cut world, so we use EGL. This is so that our clients can compare our stones to our competitors' on an apples to apples basis (trying to compare GIA stones to EGL stones is very confusing and frustrating). That being said, we'd be happy to send a stone to GIA, making it a dual-certed stone. We're actually moving towards dual-certing our stones for maximum information for our customers, but it will take time for this to be carried out.

We've found that EGL USA is typically 2 grades looser in color, for GIA-equivalent J/K or lower colors, narrowing to 1 grade difference as you go up the scale, but this is a VERY broad guideline. They are looser on fluorescence and comparable to slightly looser on clarity. Again, this is just from our experience with dual-certed stones, and is by no means a hard and fast rule. It will vary. But most EGL vendors should have no issue sending a stone to GIA if it's your preference, just understand that it won't come back with the same grade as EGL - it will be lower. So if you're looking for a GIA J-N range, for example, you should target EGL stones that are H-L range.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Re: August Vintage Rounds & OEC owners--Kozibe & other quest

Anyone understand why most of these are egl as opposed to ags or gia?
-so why don't they just send them to gia or ags? the cost isn't prohibitive--is it really just a matter of looser grading and people not understanding the looser grading--

This will be the only diamond I ever purchase, it's for an E-ring.

I could also do a cushion that looks like the one posted above by gypsy--that's beautiful--I tried to look on that site before & could not find pics of stones--are there more like that???

GIA isn't kind to old cuts. I recently had one appraised and it came back with no mention of it being an older cut, which I wanted for insurance purposes, and with a "fair" grading. If I understand insurance correctly, this now means that if the stone were lost or damaged and my insurance company did like for like that I could end up with a low colour, Modern Round Brilliant, with poor cut and symmetry. No thank you. I'd rather have an appraisal that specifically mentions it's an older cut and then judges it for what it is compared to starting off with the assumption that are rounds are the same and should be graded equally.

One of my OECs also has a GIA report grading it as Fair cut and a modern Round brilliant I plan to have the stone graded by EGL for fun but also because EGL will label it correctly as an OEC, allowing me to insure it in a meaningful way. If I did not have access to EGL so easily, I would have gotten a good appraisal clearly stating that the diamond is an OEC and explaining how GIA often mislabels old cuts that are not "by the books".

Actually, Jon at GOG told me he sent his AVRs to GIA originally and some were labelled Round Brilliants with Fair cut too! So he sent them to AGS instead.

Anyways, for this reason and maybe others, EGL is actually the industry standard with old cuts.

 

[catia]

Re: August Vintage Rounds & OEC owners--Kozibe & other quest

That's interesting about EGL & older cuts--& GIA--any articles written about this?


Also-what's the general difference w/ AGS & OEC's & older cuts? How do they factor in-since they will cert as an OEC?

The insurance company stuff makes a lot of sense.

There's just so much to process!

 

[ariel144]

Re: August Vintage Rounds & OEC owners--Kozibe & other quest

That's interesting about EGL & older cuts--& GIA--any articles written about this?


Also-what's the general difference w/ AGS & OEC's & older cuts? How do they factor in-since they will cert as an OEC?

The insurance company stuff makes a lot of sense.

There's just so much to process!

Catia,
Here are some listed on usacerted...the first one is a GIA, but my fav. is the EGLUSA J VS1...at worst it could be a L+ VS2 and faces up pretty large 6.89x6.73. So if size matters this one may be the best. It also has med. fl. which will make the color whiter in some lighting. Might be great if the lower colors are good for you. But the GIA stone is cheaper and may be perfect for your budget and goal. A J VS2 would be lovely with the G/G Pol/Sym. You could call in both stones and look at both.

The insurance aspect of the certs is something that I never thought about....interesting.

Good luck with your search...yes, it can be frustrating, but very rewarding if you wait for just the right stone. GOG has a rectangular antique OMC 1 carat. Take a look at the thread on here. The girl chose the square one, but I think the price range for both were somewhere in the $3k range. It is an I color and you can watch the GOG video, but I think that OEC GIA J VS2 would be speaking to me
over this antique OMC on GOG.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gog-and-choice-between-two-omcs.173483/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gog-and-choice-between-two-omcs.173483/[/URL]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-9gG6l5VK0

http://www.usacerteddiamonds.com/usagia/polygon_live_feed.html
Old European, 0.94ct, J, VS2, GIA

This Old European, J color and VS2 clarity diamond comes accompanied by a diamond grading report from the GIA laboratory.
Total Price 3032.82 USD
Shape Old European
Carat Weight 0.94 ct
Lab >> GIA Certificate
Cut Grade --
Depth % 66.6 %
Table % 44 %
Symmetry Good
Polish Good
Girdle Thickness --
Culet Size --
Fluorescence None
Dimensions 6.06x6.28x4.11 mm
L/W Ratio 0.96
Stock Number N034351

Shape Old European
Carat Weight 1.07 ct
Lab / Cert ID EGLUSA / 902010505d
Check for Online Certificate


Color: E - Colorless

E


These are rare diamonds that contain only minute traces of color as detected by a gemologist.

Clarity: SI2 - Slightly included

SI2

Inclusions are easily visible under 10x magnification and may be visible with the unaided eye.

Cut Grade --
Depth % 61.8 %
Table % 55 %
Symmetry Good
Polish Very Good
Girdle Thickness Thin to Slightly Thick
Culet Size Medium
Fluorescence Medium
Dimensions 6.48x6.53x4.02 mm
L/W Ratio 0.99
Stock Number V1047

This is a Old European, J color and VS1 clarity diamond.

Total Price 4429.80 USD
Shape Old European
Carat Weight 1.2 ct
Lab EGLLA


Color: J - Near Colorless

J


Color slightly detectable. An excellent value.

Clarity: VS1 - Very slightly included

VS1

Inclusions are not typically visible to the unaided eye. VS1 diamonds contain minor inclusions that range from difficult to somewhat easy to see under 10x magnification.

Cut Grade --
Depth % 62 %
Table % 53 %
Symmetry Good
Polish Good
Girdle Thickness Very Thin to Thin
Culet Size Medium
Fluorescence Medium
Dimensions 6.89x6.73x4.22 mm
L/W Ratio 1.02
Stock Number 1987

 

[ariel144]

Re: August Vintage Rounds & OEC owners--Kozibe & other quest

That's interesting about EGL & older cuts--& GIA--any articles written about this?


Also-what's the general difference w/ AGS & OEC's & older cuts? How do they factor in-since they will cert as an OEC?

The insurance company stuff makes a lot of sense.

There's just so much to process!

According to Erica Grace :
"We've found that EGL USA is typically 2 grades looser in color, for GIA-equivalent J/K or lower colors, narrowing to 1 grade difference as you go up the scale, but this is a VERY broad guideline. They are looser on fluorescence and comparable to slightly looser on clarity. Again, this is just from our experience with dual-certed stones, and is by no means a hard and fast rule. It will vary. But most EGL vendors should have no issue sending a stone to GIA if it's your preference, just understand that it won't come back with the same grade as EGL - it will be lower. So if you're looking for a GIA J-N range, for example, you should target EGL stones that are H-L range."

This seems pretty accurate based on what I have seen as well. An EGLUSA J color, most probably will face up fairly white or it would have gotten a higher color even from EGLUSA. I've seen some strict L colors look surprisingly white to my eye.

AGS grades are very strict...great lab and they are faster than GIA. So for regrading AGS would be my personal choice.

Oh, here is a M GIA OEC rather shallow but might be OK, someone thought it was good enough to send to GIA,
how about that spread?

This is a Old European, M color and VS2 clarity diamond.
Total Price 4434.08 USD
Shape Old European
Carat Weight 1.4 ct
Lab / Cert ID GIA / 6147472382
Check for Online Certificate

>> View Diamond Compare Page
View Sample
Arrow
Arrow
Arrow
Other Diamond Shape
Color: M - Yellowish tint

K - M



This color does not show with smaller diamonds when they are mounted, but diamonds of half carat or more will show noticeable color to the untrained eye.
Clarity: VS2 - Very slightly included

VS2


Inclusions are not typically visible to the unaided eye. VS2 diamonds contain minor inclusions that range from difficult to somewhat easy to see under 10x magnification.
Cut Grade --
Depth % 57.3 %
Table % 44 %
Symmetry Fair
Polish Good
Girdle Thickness Very Thin to Slightly Thick
Culet Size Large
Fluorescence None
Dimensions 7.34x7.42x4.23 mm
L/W Ratio 0.99
Stock Number 1949

 

[fridays_child]

Re: August Vintage Rounds & OEC owners--Kozibe & other quest

If you can get past being set on GIA grading, then your best bet will be to try Old World Diamonds and Jewels by Erica Grace to buy your stone. One of the stones I saw through jbeg actually had TWO reports on it, both GIA and EGL and the color rating on the GIA was oddly enough - rated higher, not lower. GIA was O/P and EGL was Q/R. (I did not see the certs in person, but was told the stats). The stone was QUITE warm. Go figure!

I ended up buying a stone from Old World Diamonds that had an EGL USA certification of K. I loved the stone when it arrived and knew for sure I was keeping it, but took it to a local appraiser anyway, just to be an informed consumer. I really didn't feel like I needed to do this, but since the stone would never be loose again for appraising, I went for it. The appraiser rated it one color lower than the EGL cert, an L. He also did a Sarin analysis (stats from this in the HCA calculator come out to 1.5) and took an ASET image and thought the stone was a great performer. The stone has been at the jeweler for a couple of weeks now and Leon and Rachel like the stone, Leon was even interested in a swap. That's saying something.

So, in limiting yourself to the standards that modern cut stone buyers use, you might be missing out on a beautiful antique stone- one that can hold it's own against modern cut stones upon viewing, even though it might not have the best stats on paper. A stone made even more beautiful by the fact that it was cut long before today's modern technological resources were available to the stone cutter artisan.

Call both OWD and jbeg. They are both professional and friendly, they'll get you any additional images/video, and they both have return policies so you can get your stone in hand and stare at it and make your final decision. They're both reputable, so you don't need to worry they're misrepresenting their products. If your budget was higher, I'd suggest considering GOG too, but as you see they carry a hefty premium.They're a good option if you want antique-style, and not actual antique, though. If you want to see/read more about my recent stone-buying experience, I've posted more thoughts on that in different threads.

Good luck finding your stone!

 

[ariel144]

Re: August Vintage Rounds & OEC owners--Kozibe & other quest

If you can get past being set on GIA grading, then your best bet will be to try Old World Diamonds and Jewels by Erica Grace to buy your stone. One of the stones I saw through jbeg actually had TWO reports on it, both GIA and EGL and the color rating on the GIA was oddly enough - rated higher, not lower. GIA was O/P and EGL was Q/R. (I did not see the certs in person, but was told the stats). The stone was QUITE warm. Go figure!

I ended up buying a stone from Old World Diamonds that had an EGL USA certification of K. I loved the stone when it arrived and knew for sure I was keeping it, but took it to a local appraiser anyway, just to be an informed consumer. I really didn't feel like I needed to do this, but since the stone would never be loose again for appraising, I went for it. The appraiser rated it one color lower than the EGL cert, an L. He also did a Sarin analysis (stats from this in the HCA calculator come out to 1.5) and took an ASET image and thought the stone was a great performer. The stone has been at the jeweler for a couple of weeks now and Leon and Rachel like the stone, Leon was even interested in a swap. That's saying something.

So, in limiting yourself to the standards that modern cut stone buyers use, you might be missing out on a beautiful antique stone- one that can hold it's own against modern cut stones upon viewing, even though it might not have the best stats on paper. A stone made even more beautiful by the fact that it was cut long before today's modern technological resources were available to the stone cutter artisan.

Call both OWD and jbeg. They are both professional and friendly, they'll get you any additional images/video, and they both have return policies so you can get your stone in hand and stare at it and make your final decision. They're both reputable, so you don't need to worry they're misrepresenting their products. If your budget was higher, I'd suggest considering GOG too, but as you see they carry a hefty premium.They're a good option if you want antique-style, and not actual antique, though. If you want to see/read more about my recent stone-buying experience, I've posted more thoughts on that in different threads.

Good luck finding your stone!

"If you can get past being set on GIA grading, then your best bet will be to try Old World Diamonds and Jewels by Erica Grace to buy your stone. One of the stones I saw through jbeg actually had TWO reports on it, both GIA and EGL and the color rating on the GIA was oddly enough - rated higher, not lower. GIA was O/P and EGL was Q/R. (I did not see the certs in person, but was told the stats). The stone was QUITE warm. Go figure!"

LOL, I saw that too and was like ...what???? ROFL

 

[fridays_child]

Re: August Vintage Rounds & OEC owners--Kozibe & other quest

Holy cow those links are to some GEORGEOUS rocks.

Ariel--I would SOOOO LOVE that GOG 5ct one, but wayyy out of my price range--but thank you so much for posting it, that is seriously a DREAM rock if I ever saw one!

So in reality, which brings me down quite a few carats, I'm looking for about a 1ct with Kozibe, somewhere around the spread range of 6.25-6.5mm.
Somewhere around $4500, which makes GOG an impossibility unless I get a seriously included stone, (there was a H that was in price range, but so included, just no way for me to be OK with it, despite light performance).
I wish they had sales cuz there are a couple I'd love but 1k out of my budget even with WT discount & I've heard GOG doesn't discount or change their prices from what is listed.

I've been looking & reading for several months now, even viewed some james allen stones (cushion brilliants with culet but unfortuneately no kozibe), but they just weren't "it", cushions seem so difficult also in antique cut (absolutelt do not want crushed ice modern cut)-

I also went in person to a few places & don't want that experience again, because it's worse than dealing with used car salesmen LOL.
No "maul" stores for me thank you!

-I've viwed so many OEC's online & then saw GOG's OEC's--did not even know they had them til last month--knew about the august vintage cusions--buit those OEC's blew me away--that's why I am wondering about the kozibe in their stones--

I want eye clean. Lower color doesn't bother me, I like the old lace feel--but inclusions bring me down.

I am cool with lower colors, J-N maybe even P & really want a GIA or AGS cert to go with my rock.

Also, to be honest, I do not feel secure about the other certs, like EGL when spending this type of $$, since their grading is looser & it bums me out, most of the OEC's seem to have them, which is making my search harder.
Also haven't seen many ASETs on OEC's.
Personally, I don't want the hassel of having to send a stone to gia myself to find it's not what I intended to purchase.
The time frames for returns from most vendors wouldn't give me enough time to send to GIA & it's just an added hassel I don't want when trying to purchase this important.

Anyone understand why most of these are egl as opposed to ags or gia?

Aside from trying to get it graded looser than what it is from gia? I've read and been told directly for example that if an egl has a grade something like J-VS1 to expect it in reality to be a GIA l-m si1 at best. When I compare EGL prices to the lower certs-like in the example above---
I see that it doesn't in reality cost more for a gia certed stone, when you take into consideration the grades will be 2 lower, or more--I see now that the EGLs stones actually cost more than a GIA of *comparable*grade.
I'd be ok with a gia grade of M-si1 (if it were eyeclean in the middle)-I just want to know what I am getting for real

-so why don't they just send them to gia or ags? the cost isn't prohibitive--is it really just a matter of looser grading and people not understanding the looser grading--
I understand some don't care what type of cert it has as long as they like the way it looks to their eye--and I 'get' that, but for me, i'm not comfortable stepping outside of AGS or GIA, so am trying to understand. I've read many many posts on this site where people bought egl, or even non certed off ebay (i am not willing to do that) & sent it to GIA themselves, some have had good experience & many have not. Just trying to learn here.

This will be the only diamond I ever purchase, it's for an E-ring. I'm just exhausted from the search at this point, it's not fun anymore, & I don't want to have to do this again, there's too much to have to learn & think about, & I am so thankful I found this site, because it is a wealth of info for the cut types I am looking for. I thank all of you so much for posting what you do!!!

I could also do a cushion that looks like the one posted above by gypsy--that's beautiful--I tried to look on that site before & could not find pics of stones--are there more like that???

Okay, I just reread your post, I understand what you mean and I'm sorry it's not fun anymore and I understand that too! I seriously encourage you to let go of the GIA thing, that'll lessen your stress! I too had gotten confused and tired of watching videos and trying to analyze pictures of OECs. I thought I was not going to find the stone I wanted, so I was thrilled when it only took me a few email exchanges with Adam at OWD to close the deal. (Well, actually we didn't "close" it because I was leaving the next day for vacation. He kindly put the stone on hold for me without asking for a deposit or anything until I got back from my trip). Once I was able to get past the fact that - OWD doesn't have images of most of their stones online, and most of their certs are EGL (they do have some GIA stones, you can ask), I emailed him, then he posted videos of stones on youtube for me, and the rest was easy. Adam assured me that the stone was beautiful, and I (a naturally skeptical person) believed him for some reason He told me to loupe the stone and send it back to him if I didn't like it, of course. And now, both the appraiser and Leon have confirmed it's a keeper and Leon has seen loads of gorgeous stones, more than any of us PS consumers ever will. Back to Adam, he has a lot of inventory, so I strongly suggest contacting him with your budget limit and let him know what you want in your stone. Sorry, I don't mean to be pushy about it, but I was at the same point you are at, and it worked out well in the end for me to get a non-GIA, non-AGS certed stone, so I thought I'd share my experience. If you want to see the ASET of my stone and the other stats, it's here: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/just-another-oec.172744/page-2']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/just-another-oec.172744/page-2[/URL]

 

[fridays_child]

Re: August Vintage Rounds & OEC owners--Kozibe & other quest

"If you can get past being set on GIA grading, then your best bet will be to try Old World Diamonds and Jewels by Erica Grace to buy your stone. One of the stones I saw through jbeg actually had TWO reports on it, both GIA and EGL and the color rating on the GIA was oddly enough - rated higher, not lower. GIA was O/P and EGL was Q/R. (I did not see the certs in person, but was told the stats). The stone was QUITE warm. Go figure!"

LOL, I saw that too and was like ...what???? ROFL

The dimensions of the stone were really different on the two reports as well

You have eagle eyes ariel, if I ever need help looking at stones, I'll ask you

 

[ariel144]

Re: August Vintage Rounds & OEC owners--Kozibe & other quest

Here is an interesting chart showing "acceptable" cut measurements for OEC's I guess that 57.3% depth in that GIA 1.4c M is just fine.

Technical guidelines for OEC vs. EC vs. transitional?
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/technical-guidelines-for-oec-vs-ec-vs-transitional.166236/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/technical-guidelines-for-oec-vs-ec-vs-transitional.166236/[/URL]

interesting.

 

[catia]

Re: August Vintage Rounds & OEC owners--Kozibe & other quest

ariel, I went to the link you posted for usacerted diamonds-& it worked & allowed me to do a search & I picked out a bunch to compare, then all of a sudden it won't let me compare or do a search--is that a legitimate site? it keeps asking me to login & doing weird stuff.

Has anyone here done business with them?

I've been searching endlessly & this is a site that appears to have reasonable prices in my budget.

 

[ariel144]

Re: August Vintage Rounds & OEC owners--Kozibe & other quest

ariel, I went to the link you posted for usacerted diamonds-& it worked & allowed me to do a search & I picked out a bunch to compare, then all of a sudden it won't let me compare or do a search--is that a legitimate site? it keeps asking me to login & doing weird stuff.

Has anyone here done business with them?

I've been searching endlessly & this is a site that appears to have reasonable prices in my budget.

I have not purchased from them but I've seen them mentioned on pricescope before. The diamonds are searched from polygon and any jeweler can be a member and call in those stones for you. Even someone locally, but usacerted has some of the best prices, but I'm sure if you went through someone else they would match those prices for the same stone. I have done biz with www.buydiamonddirect.com (Ronni) and his prices are even a tad lower. But I don't think his searches are from Polygon and you can't pull up the cert report, he has to get it for you which is a pain.

usacerted states that they will send several stones to your local appraiser for you to go and view in person. They seem very reputable to me.

I don't know why you are having trouble. You could clear your cache and start over for your search.

 

[catia]

Re: August Vintage Rounds & OEC owners--Kozibe & other quest

Ariel
LOL got the site working while you were posting-it's moody & a little tough to figure out where to click what.

I'd love to hear from someone who has used them though.

I did read that they'll send multiple diamonds to a jeweler, then i clicked on something else & their details disappeared ugh.

So far, when I was viewing cushions:
I have viewed 2 stones from DOW (diamondsonweb) & had 0 issues w/return & Layla was AWESOME & I had my $$ back within a week. Their customer service was great & pretty layed back. Their site doesn't show pics & when wanting a cushion, well, it leaves a lot to the imagination-so makes it rough. They WILL pricematch & did for me on both stones.

Then, after much reading I viewed 2 stones from James Allen, because I could see pics 1st & had a general idea what I was getting.
1 was a 1.2 J VS1 cushion Brilliant that was OK except for a big black hole dead spot if tilted that drove me nuts.
The other was one of the most beautiful modified cushion brilliants I've ever seen was a J 1.11 VS1, the cut was unique, but it just wasn't for me, but was hard to give up.
I will however say that JA cust serv is not very knowledgible, they're not consistant or organized, you don't get much in the way of confirmation or proper emails for your orders & no one seems to know what's going on.
************* & they will take the FULL 3 weeks to get your $$$ back**********
I still don't have my $$$$ back been 2.5 weeks, I'm getting scared with that type of cash floating.
So anyone ordering to do a look/see, know if you do a retun, they will take the FULL 3 Weeks of holding your $$ for no reason other than to hold it--I received my return confirmation within 24 hours--so when they say up to 3 weeks--it will be 3 full weeks of holding.

Sorry for the rant, but everything $$ wise is tied up---moreso than what was budgeted, since I wanted to view 2 stones...& it's killin me.

So, if this usacert is willing to ship multiple stones before I pay--so that I can decide--that's great--I want to check it out--if it's legit.