Asscher experts - selection advice

[Wyer]

Just calling out to all the Asscher experts on here (Karl, Kenny, Gypsy, all the other users - as I don't know all the frequent users).

To set the scene:
- Can only purchase this on-line as I'm located in Australia;
- Will be looking to purchase from a reputable PS approved on-line store (e.g. GOG, JA, etc), but BrilliantEarth is also useful due to free shipping/returns to AU;
- Requirements, around 1.2-1.5 carats, G or above, VS2 or above - no set budget, but looking at around 12k USD for the diamond.

I would be very grateful if you could help me out in choosing an Asscher, I'm not asking you to do all the legwork for me. However, what would be very helpful is:

1. Examples (images) of what an ideal Asscher would look like (e.g. I can look at JA superzooms all I like, but a baseline would be useful)
2. Is it possible to determine if the Asscher is a good cut just by the JA videos, as they don't have ASETs like on GOG.
3. What are good reference dimensions for table and depth? It seems quite mixed, as number of sites recommend below 70% for depth, but a lot of GOG custom cuts will be above this.

Basically, if someone could provide me with reference points to what would be an ideal asscher that would be great - I've also read through the P3 facets guide (but not sure how this will help with practical selection) and went through the thread of AGS ideal asscher guidelines.

 

[Gypsy]

If you want a reference point, there are dozens of threads on asschers that will provide you ample reference points.

I suggest you do some independent research on here. We have a search function. You can look up "asscher" and any of our names "Karl" or "Storm" or "Gypsy".

And then go from there.

JA doesn't have ASETs posted but they can get them for you on many of their stones.

Depending on your comfort you may want to work with a vendor that can source a stone for you.

 

[Gypsy]

I like these two on JA. Put on hold (no cost no obligation) and ask for an ASET of them.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.51-carat-e-color-vs2-clarity-sku-719299
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.58-carat-e-color-vs2-clarity-sku-36783

As for how I picked them. I am very familiar with the JA photo set up. So I can usually guess at ASET performance. That's not something easy to teach someone else. And faceting. The faceting on then is very nice.

These two have potential as well:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.51-carat-d-color-vs1-clarity-sku-921811
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.59-carat-g-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-184584

Hopefully one will work out for you. I will also look at other vendors and see if anything catches my eye.

 

[Gypsy]

One of the things that you will want to research is P3 angles.

 

[Wyer]

Hopefully one will work out for you. I will also look at other vendors and see if anything catches my eye.

Thank you, exactly what I was hoping to get to help guide me a little.

I've also read through a lot of the threads on here, but the recommended dimensions for depth seem to vary a fair bit, but will do another search.

I actually had these three shortlisted, only one of which are in your links, but I wasn't sure as to whether my in-experienced eye was on the money or not:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.59-carat-g-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-184584
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.52-carat-f-color-vs1-clarity-sku-159671
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.29-carat-f-color-si1-clarity-sku-184957

Also, worth noting I'm happy to go below my budget and I'd rather have a smaller diamond with a better cut than a larger 1.5.

 

[Gypsy]

Hopefully one will work out for you. I will also look at other vendors and see if anything catches my eye.

Thank you, exactly what I was hoping to get to help guide me a little.

I've also read through a lot of the threads on here, but the recommended dimensions for depth seem to vary a fair bit, but will do another search.

Don't do a search for depth, etc. That's why you are frustrated. You are looking for the wrong thing. Asking the wrong questions.

Numbers largely do not matter with asschers. Period. You can't buy them from the numbers. And a stone with perfect stats can be a dog and a stone with wonktastic numbers can be gorgeous.

All you need to know, in terms of stats, is the following:

1. Even girdle that is not very thin.
2. Depth less than 70 preferred for spread. Not for performance. So there should be a discount if over 70.
3. PREFERRED table smaller than depth. BUT THIS IS NOT AN ABSOLUTE. There have been some gorgeous stones found and bought without this.
4. Excellent or VG symmetry and polish preferred.
5. PREFERRED crown over 10% (but this number doesn't show up on lab reports so a vendor would have to scan for it) but like #3 not absolute. In the JA videos, trained eyes can eyeball the crown height to know if it's going to be high enough or not.

Notice none of these are absolutes except the no 'very thin' girdle and even that can be waived if the girdle is only very thin in one spot and your setting can protect it. The rest are just preferences. All of them can be waived for the right stone.

Other than that, the rest is understanding ASETs, P3 angles, and faceting.

 

[Wyer]

Don't do a search for depth, etc. That's why you are frustrated. You are looking for the wrong thing. Asking the wrong questions.

Thanks Gypsy, the more reading I do the more perplexed I seem to get when it should be the other way around.

I'll get there eventually, thanks for the feedback.

 

[Wyer]

I was really keen on this one Gypsy that you found - http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.51-carat-d-color-vs1-clarity-sku-921811..

Unfortunately, JA can't provide an ASET of it

 

[Gypsy]

Hopefully one will work out for you. I will also look at other vendors and see if anything catches my eye.

Thank you, exactly what I was hoping to get to help guide me a little.

I've also read through a lot of the threads on here, but the recommended dimensions for depth seem to vary a fair bit, but will do another search.

I actually had these three shortlisted, only one of which are in your links, but I wasn't sure as to whether my in-experienced eye was on the money or not:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.59-carat-g-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-184584
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.52-carat-f-color-vs1-clarity-sku-159671
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.29-carat-f-color-si1-clarity-sku-184957

Also, worth noting I'm happy to go below my budget and I'd rather have a smaller diamond with a better cut than a larger 1.5.

Focus on the stones they can get you an ASET for. The D is nice, but so are the others.

Feedback on choices 2 and 3 above.

Keep your eye on spread. Asschers are nothing like rounds. With rounds a one carat will face up at around 6.3-6.5. With asschers there is a lot of variation. You can easily get a 1.4 carat stone that is smaller (dimensions) than a 1.2 carat stone. Both of these have spread problems, but most especially the SI1. My 1.09 asscher faces up the same as that one. There's no point in spending money on a 1.3 carat stone when it looks like a one carat. So, that one is just a poor value. And it is not going to be eyeclean. Those inclusions will light up on a step cut. The VS stone also has spread issues. I would not want a 1.5 carat that faces up smaller than about 7.3 square. It also has a few facets that I think will not ASET well.

Asschers face up tiny as it is. Try to maximize performance (the brighter the stone the larger it will look) and spread.

 

[Wyer]

Thank you so much for all the advice.

I actually asked for an ASET of 3 of them, the one I couldn't get and the first two you recommended (which they are obtaining ASETs for).

I did try and factor in spread, but obviously in a very naive way using depth % as the proxy - as I don't have the knowledge of what mm size would equate to a good spread for the carat size. I also tried to plug them into diamdb, but it would always come back as too deep.

I'll keep searching, as there isn't a rush on the stone, just trying to find the right one.

Thank you again, your insight has been invaluable in helping refine how I search through these diamonds.

 

[Wyer]

Focus on the stones they can get you an ASET for. The D is nice, but so are the others.

You'll have to excuse my ignorance, but would you rate this one behind your first two choices? When I look at the pictures, I would have thought the facets on this one looked the best, it just seems the most captivating?

 

[Karl_K]

I cant say much because of my Octavia is in this category and im trade.
Pay attention to mm measurements over depth measurements.
An Asscher with 72%+ depth can have better spread than one with a 65% depth and have higher light return.

 

[Wyer]

I cant say much because of my Octavia might be in the running.
Pay attention to mm measurements over depth measurements.
An Asscher with 72%+ depth can have better spread than one with a 65% depth.

It is definitely in the running, probably one of the top contenders. However, just trying to think through all of the options and build a stronger understanding.

Thanks for the comment!

 

[Karl_K]

I cant say much because of my Octavia might be in the running.
Pay attention to mm measurements over depth measurements.
An Asscher with 72%+ depth can have better spread than one with a 65% depth.

It is definitely in the running, probably one of the top contenders. However, just trying to think through all of the options and build a stronger understanding.

Thanks for the comment!

kewl
buying a diamond is a big decision and I am all for doing a lot of homework on it.
I love to see people learn and explore, that is how I started out.
I had better bow out of this thread before I say something to get in trouble. lol

Best of luck in your search!!!

 

[Wyer]

I had better bow out of this thread before I say something to get in trouble. lol

Best of luck in your search!!!

Are you allowed to comment via another medium? I'm fully aware of the Octavia and your involvement and I would gladly welcome your input along with Gypsy's given how knowledgeable you both (all) are.

I'm just trying to get through the steep learning curve, understanding the 4c's was easy, but going through the gamut of information to try and isolate a good Asscher cut is a different ball game.

I'm open to all opinions, as I'm not just considering the Octavia, I'm actively considering other custom cuts (including RAC) and the more generic options.

However, completely appreciate your constraints on posting here, just thought I would ask.

 

[Gypsy]

If you are considering a custom cut Jonathan at GOG might be a good vendor for you to reach out to. Not his staff either, actually Jon himself.

In the past I've had more energy than I do right now, and I did put together a bit of an asscher tutorial. I am afraid most of the links are broken now though. And I just don't have the energy to update them. Maybe that will change.

Here it is though: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/1st-time-buyer-looking-at-asscher.174506/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/1st-time-buyer-looking-at-asscher.174506/[/URL] Maybe some of the links work still.

 

[Wyer]

If you are considering a custom cut Jonathan at GOG might be a good vendor for you to reach out to. Not his staff either, actually Jon himself.

In the past I've had more energy than I do right now, and I did put together a bit of an asscher tutorial. I am afraid most of the links are broken now though. And I just don't have the energy to update them. Maybe that will change.

Here it is though: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/1st-time-buyer-looking-at-asscher.174506/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/1st-time-buyer-looking-at-asscher.174506/[/URL] Maybe some of the links work still.

Jon is amazing, it's highly likely that I'll end up purchasing from him - which actually means I can save a lot of effort and rely on his skill. However, it's a big big purchase and me being me, I want to up skill myself in this anyway.

Completely understand re:energy, your advice has already been exceedingly helpful. I tried to open all the links (2 work), it's a shame there aren't images available as that tutorial would have been perfect.

I also had to cancel the JA ASETs as I wasn't aware that there was a 3 image limit - as I do have plenty of time up my sleeve, I don't want to churn through them (as personally, I'm only drawn to the one that I can't get an ASET of!) without being able to request the images in the future.

If it's not too much to ask - maybe after a week I can come back with say a couple of Asschers from JA with my thoughts and you can tell me how I missed the important details!

 

[Gypsy]

Ok. For now study the ones I did pick and ask me about them if you like.

Are you positive the recipient WANTS an asscher?

 

[Wyer]

Ok. For now study the ones I did pick and ask me about them if you like.

Are you positive the recipient WANTS an asscher?

Specifically an Assher no, but she did like it when it was discretely shown to her. She definitely doesn't want a round and like something square.

I did briefly consider a princess or a cushions as well.

 

[Gypsy]

Hopefully one will work out for you. I will also look at other vendors and see if anything catches my eye.

Thank you, exactly what I was hoping to get to help guide me a little.

I've also read through a lot of the threads on here, but the recommended dimensions for depth seem to vary a fair bit, but will do another search.

I actually had these three shortlisted, only one of which are in your links, but I wasn't sure as to whether my in-experienced eye was on the money or not:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.59-carat-g-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-184584
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.52-carat-f-color-vs1-clarity-sku-159671
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.29-carat-f-color-si1-clarity-sku-184957

Also, worth noting I'm happy to go below my budget and I'd rather have a smaller diamond with a better cut than a larger 1.5.

Focus on the stones they can get you an ASET for. The D is nice, but so are the others.

Feedback on choices 2 and 3 above.

Keep your eye on spread. Asschers are nothing like rounds. With rounds a one carat will face up at around 6.3-6.5. With asschers there is a lot of variation. You can easily get a 1.4 carat stone that is smaller (dimensions) than a 1.2 carat stone. Both of these have spread problems, but most especially the SI1. My 1.09 asscher faces up the same as that one. There's no point in spending money on a 1.3 carat stone when it looks like a one carat. So, that one is just a poor value. And it is not going to be eyeclean. Those inclusions will light up on a step cut. The VS stone also has spread issues. I would not want a 1.5 carat that faces up smaller than about 7.3 square. It also has a few facets that I think will not ASET well.

Asschers face up tiny as it is. Try to maximize performance (the brighter the stone the larger it will look) and spread.

Error above. 1.5 carat will not face 7.3. I meant 6.3. Sorry for confusion.

Cushions are really nice too. Does she have a Pinterest board?

 

[Wyer]

Error above. 1.5 carat will not face 7.3. I meant 6.3. Sorry for confusion.

Cushions are really nice too. Does she have a Pinterest board?

No pinterest board, but I got a friend to show her a picture and got her feedback. She likes the Asscher, but then she hasn't seen a cushion to compare it against that I know of - she doesn't seem particularly interested in a Princess either, as she finds it fairly common like the RB.

Trying to comment on the links you provided, but you'll probably have to grill me about how far off I am...

 

[Wyer]

I like these two on JA. Put on hold (no cost no obligation) and ask for an ASET of them.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.51-carat-e-color-vs2-clarity-sku-719299
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.58-carat-e-color-vs2-clarity-sku-36783

As for how I picked them. I am very familiar with the JA photo set up. So I can usually guess at ASET performance. That's not something easy to teach someone else. And faceting. The faceting on then is very nice.

These two have potential as well:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.51-carat-d-color-vs1-clarity-sku-921811
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.59-carat-g-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-184584

Hopefully one will work out for you. I will also look at other vendors and see if anything catches my eye.

1. The reason I don't really like this one is because of the dark outline along the outside facet of the table. I've read that this doesn't necessarily result in poor light performance, but it doesn't look quite right to me?

2. I'm okay with this one, I don't really know what the flaw would be. I suppose why I'm not as drawn by it is because the 'hall of mirrors' effect doesn't seem as pronounced. The windmill (which I know is what is sought after) is also rather thick, which would seem to obstruct how nice it would look through the table.

3. I really really like this one, besides not being able to get an ASET. While I would have been initially concerned about the dark areas in the facets, it seems like this actually just accentuates the look and contrast of the diamond. I suppose if I use the superzoom feature, the concern might be light leakage in the bottom facets (doesn't look like it's the p3 facet, but above it).

4. Not really sure what is wrong with this one either, maybe the corners aren't as pronounced/octagonal (it still is). The table is obviously bigger, but not sure that is a bad thing? The facets aren't all the same size are a bit uneven, but this applies to 3 as well?

I'm probably completely off the mark, but that's what I thought...

 

[Gypsy]

Ok. Personally, as an asscher owner. I'd rather have a cushion.

There are threads on here polling asscher owners on thier choice.

They are an interesting read.

How do you plan to set it?

 

[Gypsy]

I like these two on JA. Put on hold (no cost no obligation) and ask for an ASET of them.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.51-carat-e-color-vs2-clarity-sku-719299
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.58-carat-e-color-vs2-clarity-sku-36783

As for how I picked them. I am very familiar with the JA photo set up. So I can usually guess at ASET performance. That's not something easy to teach someone else. And faceting. The faceting on then is very nice.

These two have potential as well:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.51-carat-d-color-vs1-clarity-sku-921811
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.59-carat-g-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-184584

Hopefully one will work out for you. I will also look at other vendors and see if anything catches my eye.

1. The reason I don't really like this one is because of the dark outline along the outside facet of the table. I've read that this doesn't necessarily result in poor light performance, but it doesn't look quite right to me?

2. I'm okay with this one, I don't really know what the flaw would be. I suppose why I'm not as drawn by it is because the 'hall of mirrors' effect doesn't seem as pronounced. The windmill (which I know is what is sought after) is also rather thick, which would seem to obstruct how nice it would look through the table.

3. I really really like this one, besides not being able to get an ASET. While I would have been initially concerned about the dark areas in the facets, it seems like this actually just accentuates the look and contrast of the diamond. I suppose if I use the superzoom feature, the concern might be light leakage in the bottom facets (doesn't look like it's the p3 facet, but above it).

4. Not really sure what is wrong with this one either, maybe the corners aren't as pronounced/octagonal (it still is). The table is obviously bigger, but not sure that is a bad thing? The facets aren't all the same size are a bit uneven, but this applies to 3 as well?

I'm probably completely off the mark, but that's what I thought...

Ok. Will comment tomorrow. Good night!

 

[ADN]

To set the scene:
- Can only purchase this on-line as I'm located in Australia;
- Will be looking to purchase from a reputable PS approved on-line store (e.g. GOG, JA, etc), but BrilliantEarth is also useful due to free shipping/returns to AU;
- Requirements, around 1.2-1.5 carats, G or above, VS2 or above - no set budget, but looking at around 12k USD for the diamond.

I would be very grateful if you could help me out in choosing an Asscher, I'm not asking you to do all the legwork for me. However, what would be very helpful is:

Hey mate – - I'm not sure why you feel you have to buy overseas? With a bit of searching I’m sure you could find what you’re looking for locally…
But anyway, if that’s the path you follow, just make sure that you factor any additional costs into your purchase – you don’t want any surprise phone calls from customs .
Most shipping costs are built into the price by the vendor (you might just want to check the insurance policy), however, a few other fees aren't included.
FedEx will send you a bill of goods and require payment before they’ll release the goods. You’re looking at 10% GST (of the declared value + shipping/insurance + duty if applicable) + around $50-$150 for ACS electronic entry fees (depending on over/under 10k) + around $40 for FedEx tax advancement fees (whatever the hell that is ).
Not sure if you’re looking to have the stone set in the US, but if you do, you’ll need to add on 5% duty for jewellery (finished jewellery attracts 5% duty) as well as the 10% GST. Loose (unset) stones don’t attract the 5% because of the free trade agreement with the US – just make sure that there is proper documentation / certificates of origin / etc.
I’ve heard (but can’t confirm) that if the shipment invoice comes without a freight and insurance value, an amount of such extent will be decided by customs and added to the shipment value in AUD to arrive at a GST value. 
Exchange rate – the AUD has made a bit of a gain this week (just closed at a bit over 0.77), but we’re still not that flash to the USD - - if you have a USD account, great…if not, check with your bank what rate you can get on the day. Also ask about their ‘international transfer fees’. If paying by credit card, make sure to check out their rate and fees as well.
Hope this helps

 

[diamond5678]

Ok. Personally, as an asscher owner. I'd rather have a cushion.

There are threads on here polling asscher owners on thier choice.

They are an interesting read.

How do you plan to set it?

Hi Gypsy,

I am also looking around at asschers and want to be sure it's the right decision. Do you happen to have a link to past polls of asscher owners on their choice? I did a search and couldn't find one specific to that, moreso polls on specific stones or settings for asschers. Thanks!!

 

[Wyer]

Ok. Personally, as an asscher owner. I'd rather have a cushion.

There are threads on here polling asscher owners on thier choice.

They are an interesting read.

How do you plan to set it?

Thanks I'll go search for them.

I was originally going to leave the setting to her but I've come across the Danhov Swirl and she has been shown it and loves it (only knitpicking comment was that the square swirl around the diamond isn't perfectly symmetrical).

 

[Wyer]

Hey mate – - I'm not sure why you feel you have to buy overseas? With a bit of searching I’m sure you could find what you’re looking for locally…
But anyway, if that’s the path you follow, just make sure that you factor any additional costs into your purchase – you don’t want any surprise phone calls from customs .

The tax and duty implications aren't a concern, it might not necessarily be shipped to Australia, depending on work or travel arrangements.

As for the AUD/USD, the pair is actually at a reasonable level - to say it's not that flash is comparing it to our strong run in recent years. There doesn't appear to be immediate pressure causing a bearish outlook but different analysts have varying views, but the comodity price pick up has meant we have been comfortably sitting around 76c. As far as payment is concerned I'll sort that out with the final vendor, but there are plenty of options - the two most probably ones being an international credit card or an international money transfer account - again not really a concern, just lose out on the wire transfer discount (but that discount shouldn't be attractive for any international buyers, you lose out on spread and pay bank fees).

Buying locally makes limited sense to me, the range is limited here and I don't think pricing is favourable - also the current preference is probably towards a custom cut.

Sorry replying on my phone if anything doesn't make sense.

 

[Gypsy]

Here's one of the asscher threads I was referencing: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/honest-thoughts-by-asscher-owners.44962/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/honest-thoughts-by-asscher-owners.44962/[/URL]

Wallermama did eventually have her rings replaced for some reason (theft?? some sort of loss, and I don't recall) and she didn't pick an asscher again.

I doubt I would pick one again either if I lost or had my rings stolen. Being a general diamond lover I would probably just go with the nicest overall ring I could get for my budget that looked good on my hand (squares and rectangles look best on my hands).

 

[Gypsy]

1. The reason I don't really like this one is because of the dark outline along the outside facet of the table. I've read that this doesn't necessarily result in poor light performance, but it doesn't look quite right to me?

2. I'm okay with this one, I don't really know what the flaw would be. I suppose why I'm not as drawn by it is because the 'hall of mirrors' effect doesn't seem as pronounced. The windmill (which I know is what is sought after) is also rather thick, which would seem to obstruct how nice it would look through the table.

3. I really really like this one, besides not being able to get an ASET. While I would have been initially concerned about the dark areas in the facets, it seems like this actually just accentuates the look and contrast of the diamond. I suppose if I use the superzoom feature, the concern might be light leakage in the bottom facets (doesn't look like it's the p3 facet, but above it).

4. Not really sure what is wrong with this one either, maybe the corners aren't as pronounced/octagonal (it still is). The table is obviously bigger, but not sure that is a bad thing? The facets aren't all the same size are a bit uneven, but this applies to 3 as well?

I'm probably completely off the mark, but that's what I thought...

Argh. I wrote out a post that got deleted.

1. Yes, I agree that the stone's most obvious flaw is that one narrow facet. That said, you are talking about something that is the size of a pencil eraser and that's a very small facet, it does turn on and off in the video, so it isn't dead, and as long as the rest of the facets light up right it would be a stunning stone and in person you wouldn't be bothered by that facet.

2. This one doesn't have the strong contrast zones that you like in the D. It doesn't look as crisp in the video. That's why it's not drawing you. Now that could be because it's not going to have a lot of red. It could ASET out all green as a result. But the angle the stone is sitting on the video could be the reason for that. The windmills are really nice on this one, actually and it has that lovely octagonal outline that is so prized. Again the spread is nice and so is the crown (despite the large table).

3. Yes, the areas you are talking about are contrast zones. They act as patterning on the stone and this stone looks really crisp. My main concern with this one is that the crown is a little low and that may make the stone a little glassy. And the windmills aren't flashing as much as I'd like to see (and I do see in the above two).

4. This one has similar issues from #2 and #3. It doesn't look as crisp like #2. But that could be the angle the stone is sitting on as well. The windmills aren't lighting up as bright as I'd like, similar to #3. And the crown is a little low as well. It could be a lovely stone despite all that too.