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- Apr 3, 2004
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that is one topic the President wanted to avoid...Abril|1350591475|3288076 said:3rd debate is about foreign policy, eh.
that is one topic the President wanted to avoid...Abril|1350591475|3288076 said:3rd debate is about foreign policy, eh.
best Q of the debate was when the african american gentleman asked him "why do you deserve 4 more yrs"?Abril|1350591360|3288075 said:Best line of 2nd debate
"Please proceed, Governor"
you know it is not good news when the PS Obama cheerleaders are so quiet this year compared to 2008...Mayk|1350500551|3287194 said:Mayk|1350500332|3287192 said:Dancing Fire|1350493224|3287120 said:it does not look good for the incumbent when the challenger is running neck to neck with only three weeks left.
I'm with you DF.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/157817/election-2012-likely-voters-trial-heat-obama-romney.aspx... There is a shift...
Annette, my belief that we are a nation in decline stems from my understanding of how capitalism (which is a financial system) works. It is a boom and bust system (business cycles) that in its later stages, so the theory goes, encourages money and goods to aggregate in the hands of a few. We live in a democracy (political system) that operates under a capitalistic financial system. Greece is a democracy, but it is part of the European Union, which is an organization of 27 independent countries that work to foster common political, economic, and social goals. Many economists believe that a great deal of Greece's issues (and Italy and Ireland and Spain) stem from the decision to operate under a common currency -- the Euro -- which tended to benefit rich countries like Germany over poorer countries like Greece. Greece's economy is less powerful than Germany's economy, and there is a huge and complicated debate about how those differences in economic power should be handled under the rules of the EC. The forced austerity measures have caused a great deal of pain to the less powerful countries. Whether or not that pain was fair or necessary is a matter of some debate.smitcompton|1350742103|3289067 said:Hi,
I have my absentee ballet in front of me, unopened. I believe i should be able to take a few things I believe in from one party and a few things from the other party. That to me is moderation--not be stuck with one party.
Normally, i am a social liberal, and a financial conservative, but i have been stopped in my tracks by the 47% of Americans who do not pay federal income tax. This fact has disturbed me above all others. I want to know how this is possible. We aren't becoming Greece, we are already there. Yes, of course I believe the top 1-10% should pay their share of taxes, as they have benefited the most from the society. But we, as Lula and Ksinger have suggested are a country in decline. We are excusing several portions of the population from contributing.as they ought to, to the well being of the country. Yes, the seniors, disabled should get a tax exemption, but I doubt that even comes to 20%. That figure is a symbol of excess give aways in the society that people have become addicted to.
Looking forward, not backward, finances will make or break this country. The financial cliff is just revoking tax relief. Let them go over the cliff. We gain more taxes without any problem.
I will have to continue to think a little more, but that 47% shouldn't be.
Thanks,
Annette
smitcompton|1350742103|3289067 said:Hi,
I have my absentee ballet in front of me, unopened. I believe i should be able to take a few things I believe in from one party and a few things from the other party. That to me is moderation--not be stuck with one party.
Normally, i am a social liberal, and a financial conservative, but i have been stopped in my tracks by the 47% of Americans who do not pay federal income tax. This fact has disturbed me above all others. I want to know how this is possible. We aren't becoming Greece, we are already there. Yes, of course I believe the top 1-10% should pay their share of taxes, as they have benefited the most from the society. But we, as Lula and Ksinger have suggested are a country in decline. We are excusing several portions of the population from contributing.as they ought to, to the well being of the country. Yes, the seniors, disabled should get a tax exemption, but I doubt that even comes to 20%. That figure is a symbol of excess give aways in the society that people have become addicted to.
Looking forward, not backward, finances will make or break this country. The financial cliff is just revoking tax relief. Let them go over the cliff. We gain more taxes without any problem.
I will have to continue to think a little more, but that 47% shouldn't be.
Thanks,
Annette
Zoe|1350599638|3288171 said:Not that this means much, but Tom Brokaw was on MSNBC on Tuesday and said that the best question he's ever heard in a town hall style debate came from my mom. I thought that was pretty cool.
why work when you have entitlement money coming in every month?. we should support our elderly citizens whom are too old to work,but why should taxpayers support the able to work but don't wanna work crowd?.. [/quote]Dancing Fire|1350761983|3289204 said:[quote="ksinger|
The outrage at the 47% is full of the image that just.won't.DIE of the non-working black welfare queen with 6 kids and a Cadillac. It's why Romney could say that "these people will never be convinced to take responsibility for their lives". The assumption is that A) ALL the 47% are not working, B) the reasons they aren't working are because they're lazy and unmotivated, C)they are the SAME people - as in their status never changes - once a 47%-er, always a 47%-er, and D) that the reasons they're poor are always their own fault. The reality is so different and so much more complex. I'm also bemused why the elderly always get a pass. Is there some magic that happens at 65 that says you DESERVE (as long as we're discussion who deserves what) a pass on income tax? Is it then just assumed that you always paid income tax before and now you're entitled to not pay it? I bet there are a few people who make it to elderly who never worked, but no one ever questions that. Not that I personally think that way mind you. I''m just tossing stuff out.
Haven|1350762909|3289213 said:Zoe|1350599638|3288171 said:Not that this means much, but Tom Brokaw was on MSNBC on Tuesday and said that the best question he's ever heard in a town hall style debate came from my mom. I thought that was pretty cool.
ksinger|1350764471|3289225 said:The only answer I can give you DF is you really MUST give up your deeply cherished stereotypes about people on public assistance. They are flat out WRONG. Stereotypes always are. You simply INSIST that everyone who isn't working CAN but doesn't want to be because they're lazy. WHY do you assume that? It's WRONG. Being lazy is ONE way people can react, not the ONLY way. You're obviously projecting onto others what YOU would do in a similar situation - I have to assume this because you show a consistent lack of the ability to consider that there could be any OTHER way to react to receiving any public assistance other than to turn into a slug. But it still doesn't necessarily mean those people will actually react like you would.
Dancing Fire|1350767954|3289258 said:[quote="ksinger|
The only answer I can give you DF is you really MUST give up your deeply cherished stereotypes about people on public assistance. They are flat out WRONG. Stereotypes always are. You simply INSIST that everyone who isn't working CAN but doesn't want to be because they're lazy. WHY do you assume that? It's WRONG. Being lazy is ONE way people can react, not the ONLY way. You're obviously projecting onto others what YOU would do in a similar situation - I have to assume this because you show a consistent lack of the ability to consider that there could be any OTHER way to react to receiving any public assistance other than to turn into a slug. But it still doesn't necessarily mean those people will actually react like you would.
Karen
back in the early 70's our family can easily qualify for public assistance but instead of going on public assistance my older brother (17 yrs old) got a job washing dishes and my momm went to work in a tomato field to support the family,plus we can't speak any english,so IMO if we can survive through those tough times anybody can.society have changed a lot the in the past 40 yrs.
yup, like i asked this guy "why don't you go and find a job?" he said...why should i?? ..i get more from public assistance than working for Mickey Ds... ... maybe b/c he has two kids?..Laila619|1350772358|3289299 said:ksinger|1350764471|3289225 said:The only answer I can give you DF is you really MUST give up your deeply cherished stereotypes about people on public assistance. They are flat out WRONG. Stereotypes always are. You simply INSIST that everyone who isn't working CAN but doesn't want to be because they're lazy. WHY do you assume that? It's WRONG. Being lazy is ONE way people can react, not the ONLY way. You're obviously projecting onto others what YOU would do in a similar situation - I have to assume this because you show a consistent lack of the ability to consider that there could be any OTHER way to react to receiving any public assistance other than to turn into a slug. But it still doesn't necessarily mean those people will actually react like you would.
I don't mean to speak for DF, but I am betting he doesn't think ALL people public assistance are simply lazy people who don't want to work. However, the reality is that there ARE people on public aid who milk the system and just don't want to work. And those are the ones who give the others a bad rap unfortunately.
Dancing Fire|1350773786|3289313 said:yup, like i asked this guy "why don't you go and find a job?" he said...why should i?? ..i get more from public assistance than working for Mickey Ds... ... maybe b/c he has two kids?..Laila619|1350772358|3289299 said:ksinger|1350764471|3289225 said:The only answer I can give you DF is you really MUST give up your deeply cherished stereotypes about people on public assistance. They are flat out WRONG. Stereotypes always are. You simply INSIST that everyone who isn't working CAN but doesn't want to be because they're lazy. WHY do you assume that? It's WRONG. Being lazy is ONE way people can react, not the ONLY way. You're obviously projecting onto others what YOU would do in a similar situation - I have to assume this because you show a consistent lack of the ability to consider that there could be any OTHER way to react to receiving any public assistance other than to turn into a slug. But it still doesn't necessarily mean those people will actually react like you would.
I don't mean to speak for DF, but I am betting he doesn't think ALL people public assistance are simply lazy people who don't want to work. However, the reality is that there ARE people on public aid who milk the system and just don't want to work. And those are the ones who give the others a bad rap unfortunately.
ksinger|1350764471|3289225 said:why work when you have entitlement money coming in every month?. we should support our elderly citizens whom are too old to work,but why should taxpayers support the able to work but don't wanna work crowd?..Dancing Fire|1350761983|3289204 said:[quote="ksinger|
The outrage at the 47% is full of the image that just.won't.DIE of the non-working black welfare queen with 6 kids and a Cadillac. It's why Romney could say that "these people will never be convinced to take responsibility for their lives". The assumption is that A) ALL the 47% are not working, B) the reasons they aren't working are because they're lazy and unmotivated, C)they are the SAME people - as in their status never changes - once a 47%-er, always a 47%-er, and D) that the reasons they're poor are always their own fault. The reality is so different and so much more complex. I'm also bemused why the elderly always get a pass. Is there some magic that happens at 65 that says you DESERVE (as long as we're discussion who deserves what) a pass on income tax? Is it then just assumed that you always paid income tax before and now you're entitled to not pay it? I bet there are a few people who make it to elderly who never worked, but no one ever questions that. Not that I personally think that way mind you. I''m just tossing stuff out.
It's also important to note that income tax is just one of several federal taxes.
The payroll tax, which funds Medicare and Social Security, is another big source of revenue for the government. And most households that don't pay income tax do pay payroll tax.
Among those households paying neither income tax nor payroll tax, almost all are either elderly or earning less than $20,000 a year. Here's a graphic from the Tax Policy Center that breaks this down.
Lula|1350773876|3289316 said:Dancing Fire|1350773786|3289313 said:yup, like i asked this guy "why don't you go and find a job?" he said...why should i?? ..i get more from public assistance than working for Mickey Ds... ... maybe b/c he has two kids?..Laila619|1350772358|3289299 said:ksinger|1350764471|3289225 said:The only answer I can give you DF is you really MUST give up your deeply cherished stereotypes about people on public assistance. They are flat out WRONG. Stereotypes always are. You simply INSIST that everyone who isn't working CAN but doesn't want to be because they're lazy. WHY do you assume that? It's WRONG. Being lazy is ONE way people can react, not the ONLY way. You're obviously projecting onto others what YOU would do in a similar situation - I have to assume this because you show a consistent lack of the ability to consider that there could be any OTHER way to react to receiving any public assistance other than to turn into a slug. But it still doesn't necessarily mean those people will actually react like you would.
I don't mean to speak for DF, but I am betting he doesn't think ALL people public assistance are simply lazy people who don't want to work. However, the reality is that there ARE people on public aid who milk the system and just don't want to work. And those are the ones who give the others a bad rap unfortunately.
Maybe it's time to relax the child labor laws in this country.
Haven|1350762909|3289213 said:Zoe|1350599638|3288171 said:Not that this means much, but Tom Brokaw was on MSNBC on Tuesday and said that the best question he's ever heard in a town hall style debate came from my mom. I thought that was pretty cool.
beebrisk|1350788054|3289414 said:Stereotypes exist because they are based in truth.
Annette, I think you might be defining "paid taxes" differently. People on unemployment of course pay taxes, but the question is, what do they get back in their return? And that is what is at issue. Everyone in the study filed a tax return, so they all paid taxes in some form (presumably, since if you don't have any income at all you don't have to file). That might satisfy your "psychological component"? It may well turn out that some of the times you think you paid your taxes, actually you didn't by the Romney definition.smitcompton|1350831881|3289627 said:Hi,
Lula---- Greece's problems do not stem from the Euro. It is called Sovereign debt, because most of the Gov'ts of the countries in Europe took a Socialist path for many of the same liberal policies that some of you are stating. They retire at 50 , with signicant Gov't pensions, and are bankrupt.(not primarily because of the pensions) It appears, as well that budgets in a good portion of Europe must be cut to avoid simialr bankrupcy posibilities. Germany has always been a producer, and it is her money that these other countries wish to borrow. Greece will have to leave the Euro, not because of the Euro, but because they overspent and didn't collect tax revenue.
That is just an aside comment.
Ksinger I went to your link and it told me that a family of 4, using the tax credit, and earning 46.000 pays no taxes. That is the more than the median(or average) of most Americans. People with municpal bonds pay no tax on the bonds interest. Only seniors with low income don't pay taxes. I pay taxes on my social security and I paid taxes when I collected unemployment benefits some yrs ago. There is a psychological component of particpating in the tax system. You don't look like a taker, and you don't feel like a taker.
You threw out the untouchable seniors question, but immediately someone comes in with the poor starving kids question. Not to worry, the schools provide breakfast and lunch for them--parents don't have to worry. You have ask yourself the question of why so maqny people who have some success in life always mention what difficulties they went through. A real sense of accomplishment comes from overcoming. I've been poor, I've been upwardly mobile, and certainly the Gov't has played its role in that for me and my family, but we always payed our taxes. and when things got rough we kept going. My brother worked since he was 13, I worked since I was 16. Well. I'm still not happy about the 47 % but I'm delaying voting.
Beebrisk-- Johnsons war on poverty had to be scaled back in the beginning. So many people qualified. But, you don't see that kind of poverty any more. There really has been an improvement in life for most everyone, including the homeless. I think Johnson did good, but others may have carried it too far.
Thanks,
Annette
Zoe|1350829206|3289598 said:Maria, the question was "What don't you know and how will you learn it?" My mom said that after Tom Brokaw read my mom's question, neither the President (candidate at the time) nor Senator McCain really answered it to her satisfaction. I think she thought both answers (particularly Obama's) were fluff...not really answered very thoughtfully. She was disappointed. She did become somewhat of a local celebrity for the question though, and my family got a kick out of it.
AGBF|1350833295|3289641 said:beebrisk|1350788054|3289414 said:Stereotypes exist because they are based in truth.
Would you care to back up that statement with proof? I do not want to get all discussion of political topics banned from Pricescope, so I will try not to be inflammatory in my response to you. It does not take a lot of historical research to show that minority groups such as Jews as African-American have been sterotyped by the larger society in the past century, however. I do not believe that the stereotypes used to characterize these racial/ethnic groups were based in truth. I believe that they were based in prejudice and jealousy.
If you have any actual evidence that stereotypes are always based in fact, by all means bring it on!
Deb/AGBF
smitcompton|1350831881|3289627 said:Hi,
Lula---- Greece's problems do not stem from the Euro. It is called Sovereign debt, because most of the Gov'ts of the countries in Europe took a Socialist path for many of the same liberal policies that some of you are stating. They retire at 50 , with signicant Gov't pensions, and are bankrupt.(not primarily because of the pensions) It appears, as well that budgets in a good portion of Europe must be cut to avoid simialr bankrupcy posibilities. Germany has always been a producer, and it is her money that these other countries wish to borrow. Greece will have to leave the Euro, not because of the Euro, but because they overspent and didn't collect tax revenue.
That is just an aside comment.
Ksinger I went to your link and it told me that a family of 4, using the tax credit, and earning 46.000 pays no taxes. That is the more than the median(or average) of most Americans. People with municpal bonds pay no tax on the bonds interest. Only seniors with low income don't pay taxes. I pay taxes on my social security and I paid taxes when I collected unemployment benefits some yrs ago. There is a psychological component of particpating in the tax system. You don't look like a taker, and you don't feel like a taker.
You threw out the untouchable seniors question, but immediately someone comes in with the poor starving kids question. Not to worry, the schools provide breakfast and lunch for them--parents don't have to worry. You have ask yourself the question of why so maqny people who have some success in life always mention what difficulties they went through. A real sense of accomplishment comes from overcoming. I've been poor, I've been upwardly mobile, and certainly the Gov't has played its role in that for me and my family, but we always payed our taxes. and when things got rough we kept going. My brother worked since he was 13, I worked since I was 16. Well. I'm still not happy about the 47 % but I'm delaying voting.
Beebrisk-- Johnsons war on poverty had to be scaled back in the beginning. So many people qualified. But, you don't see that kind of poverty any more. There really has been an improvement in life for most everyone, including the homeless. I think Johnson did good, but others may have carried it too far.
Thanks,
Annette
beebrisk|1350840862|3289686 said:AGBF|1350833295|3289641 said:beebrisk|1350788054|3289414 said:Goodmalood
Stereotypes exist because they are based in truth.
Would you care to back up that statement with proof? I do not want to get all discussion of political topics banned from Pricescope, so I will try not to be inflammatory in my response to you. It does not take a lot of historical research to show that minority groups such as Jews as African-American have been sterotyped by the larger society in the past century, however. I do not believe that the stereotypes used to characterize these racial/ethnic groups were based in truth. I believe that they were based in prejudice and jealousy.
If you have any actual evidence that stereotypes are always based in fact, by all means bring it on!
I think the more interesting question would be: Can you provide evidence that they're not? Can you site factual information that there isn't a single kernel of truth to stereotypes and/or generalizations?I'm not suggesting that we resort to using them, I'm simply stating that there is *some* basis of truth to them. If not, no one would ever use a stereotype or generalization to bolster their case. You can see plenty of evidence of that right here on these pages when one is trying to make a point about a dissenting opinion; as in, "American's are terminally stupid".