Are they any disadvantages to Super Ideal Cut Diamonds?

[starbrite]

The title of this thread more or less is my question.

I'm looking to go that route.

I know there are a lot of positives with a Super Ideal cut, but are there any negatives?

 

[winnietucker]

I was able to see one in person and compare it to my own diamond (a GIA triple ex that does admittedly score under 2 on the HCA).

I didn’t see enough of a difference to justify the premium super ideals command. I’m considering a super ideal myself and for me the value would lay in the upgrade policy. If I was one of those people who wouldn’t want to upgrade, I wouldn’t consider a super ideal.

 

[starbrite]

I was able to see one in person and compare it to my own diamond (a GIA triple ex that does admittedly score under 2 on the HCA).

I didn’t see enough of a difference to justify the premium super ideals command. I’m considering a super ideal myself and for me the value would lay in the upgrade policy. If I was one of those people who wouldn’t want to upgrade, I wouldn’t consider a super ideal.

I don't plan to upgrade in the future.

Do you see any other noticeable difference in the super ideals beyond price?

 

[LIGemzGal]

The most obvious disadvantage is the premium you're going to pay to have a "super ideal" cut diamond.Those two words will command a premium whether they're applied to "super ideal cut denim jeans" or "super ideal cut chicken cutlets". But regarding diamonds, some folks feel like they can see the difference, some people say they can't see any difference at all when comparing a "super ideal" stone to a GIA XXX stone. Some just don't care and still for others it's the mental satisfaction of feeling they have what they deem to be the best of the best; or just knowing that they have something that not a lot of people have or even know about. There are so many personal factors that people have that make them OK with paying a premium for something.

 

[mommylawyer]

Personally, I don't like that they go dark in sunlight. It's always sunny where I live. If I lived in Seattle, I would probably feel differently. I also prefer white flashes (brilliance) to colorful flashes (fire). Super Ideal cuts have more fire (colorful flashes) than EX and VG diamonds. When I was younger (before I found PS), I equated colorful flashes with CZ, which is why I prefer brilliance over fire. But this is completely personal.

 

[OoohShiny]

I don't plan to upgrade in the future.

Do you see any other noticeable difference in the super ideals beyond price?

I think that unless one can view them side-by-side to a GIA XXX with similar proportions, one can never be entirely sure whether the differences are visible to oneself!

I went SuperIdeal for my good lady's stone - I don't regret it, it performs amazingly well (even when filthy) and it was 'peace of mind' and a reduction of 'what if...' thoughts that the extra cost bought!

 

[starbrite]

The most obvious disadvantage is the premium you're going to pay to have a "super ideal" cut diamond.Those two words will command a premium whether they're applied to "super ideal cut denim jeans" or "super ideal cut chicken cutlets". But regarding diamonds, some folks feel like they can see the difference, some people say they can't see any difference at all when comparing a "super ideal" stone to a GIA XXX stone. Some just don't care and still for others it's the mental satisfaction of feeling they have what they deem to be the best of the best; or just knowing that they have something that not a lot of people have or even know about. There are so many personal factors that people have that make them OK with paying a premium for something.

In my situation, I'm looking at equally priced stones: different vendors. One XXX GIA; one Super Ideal.

In this case, the GIA diamonds cost as much as alternative Super Ideals... The GIA diamonds may cost more since the color and clarity being offered are lower than alternative Super Ideals.

I own GIA XXX diamonds, but I've never seen in person an Ideal Cut diamond.

My main concern is brilliance and sparkle. However, I'm color sensitive; so color is high on my concerns. Either GIA XXX or Super Ideal 000 can cover that concern. But I've read that Super Ideal cuts have more sparkle.

Buying a diamond sight unseen (because of the pandemic) is IMO very difficult.

I couldn't care less about "name brand" or not. However, I do care about high end quality that you can see.

 

[123ducklings]

Stones that score best on HCA go dark in direct sun.

 

[starbrite]

Personally, I don't like that they go dark in sunlight. It's always sunny where I live. If I lived in Seattle, I would probably feel differently. I also prefer white flashes (brilliance) to colorful flashes (fire). Super Ideal cuts have more fire (colorful flashes) than EX and VG diamonds. When I was younger (before I found PS), I equated colorful flashes with CZ, which is why I prefer brilliance over fire. But this is completely personal.

When you say "go dark in sunlight", what exactly does that mean? None of my GIA diamonds do that.

 

[winnietucker]

I don't plan to upgrade in the future.

Do you see any other noticeable difference in the super ideals beyond price?

I did not but take this with a grain of salt because I also can’t see differences in color until stones are right up next to one another. Nor do I readily notice inclusions like some people can. My vision clearly just isn’t that sharp.

The super ideal I saw was a H or I, IIRC. The sales associate brought out a GIA XXX E colored diamond and side by side (mine, the super ideal, and the E), they all looked more or less the same to me (aside from color of course). The diamonds were all approximately the same size as well.

I would suggest seeing one in person. HPD has their stones with some other jewelers.

I will say that customer service with the super ideal vendors I’ve spoken with seems to be top notch. I contacted White Flash recently and the person I spoke to remembered my grandma was having health issues and asked how she was doing. I think I had previously contacted them about a year prior - so I was super impressed and touched that they remembered. I’ve also spoken to someone at HPD and found them to be similarly very attentive. I haven’t purchased with either yet - but definitely plan to in the future. But again, for me it’s the upgrade policy that really makes it worth it. If they were to ever get rid of it, I’d probably go B2C (who I’ve also had a pleasant experience with).

 

[starbrite]

Stones that score best on HCA go dark in direct sun.

Does that literally mean they "go dark"???

 

[LLJsmom]

Does that literally mean they "go dark"???

I don't think that is true for every super ideal. I do not find that true for the ones I've seen. And also, "go dark" can mean different things to different people. I think further detail would be helpful.

When I've seen super ideals on a bright sunny day, which implies blue skies, I see blue reflected. I expect that. To me, that is not "dark". It's not white because the diamond isn't reflecting a white or overcast sky.

@starbrite have you seen any and what are your thoughts and concerns?

 

[123ducklings]

Does that literally mean they "go dark"???

There have been a lot of threads about this and Garry has written about it extensively. Here’s a summary; you can find lots more info by searching the forum.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/does-this-stone-appear-milky.259882/#post-4821509

Note that the thread I linked discusses other issues, but the specific comment I linked is relevant.

 

[mommylawyer]

When you say "go dark in sunlight", what exactly does that mean? None of my GIA diamonds do that.

Here's a thread with pictures:

Do all well cut diamonds must appear dark?

Hi, I just upgraded my engagement ring from 1.05 H vs1 to 1.75 I vs2 at T&Co. They both are 3ex cut and it’s 1.4 and 1.3 on HCA and both are very sparkly but somehow the I color diamond look really dark to me, first I thought it’s because it’s an I then I read people here say the well cut...

www.pricescope.com

 

[Nina-W]

Does that literally mean they "go dark"???

I don’t remember mine going “dark”. I often hold mine in the sunlight to see the sparkles. I do notice that they tend to appear very white without dark spots even in low light setting compared to my other diamonds though.

 

[LIGemzGal]

In my situation, I'm looking at equally priced stones: different vendors. One XXX GIA; one Super Ideal.

In this case, the GIA diamonds cost as much as alternative Super Ideals... The GIA diamonds may cost more since the color and clarity being offered are lower than alternative Super Ideals.

I own GIA XXX diamonds, but I've never seen in person an Ideal Cut diamond.

My main concern is brilliance and sparkle. However, I'm color sensitive; so color is high on my concerns. Either GIA XXX or Super Ideal 000 can cover that concern. But I've read that Super Ideal cuts have more sparkle.

Buying a diamond sight unseen (because of the pandemic) is IMO very difficult.

I couldn't care less about "name brand" or not. However, I do care about high end quality that you can see.

What is an "alternative super ideal" that you reference--perhaps I'm misunderstanding? I'd definitely recommend that you try to go view some ideal cut diamonds in person, if you can. You need to visually see if you notice any difference with your own eyes, especially since you already have a XXX. But color also plays a factor too. And you mentioned you're color sensitive. A J/K ideal cut might look as bright as a G/H GIA XXX because of the flashes/sparkle factor. Color might not even be an issue at that point, especially if you're loving the flashes that you see with the ideal cut. I'm still struggling to understand what the industry considers to be a "super ideal" vs "ideal" diamond. What factors separate those two terms, if any? I think at some miniscule level, the terms themselves are about marketing. But I digress. Bottom line for me is that I prefer very well cut and very white diamonds. I'm in that camp of people that prefers all the sparkle, fire, brilliance, scintillation---the whole freaking shabang in whatever way it shows up. I don't care about what lighting conditions you need to be in to best see it, since the reality is I will never be under perfect lighting conditions all the time. All that matters to me is that when I do see those fireworks, they mesmerize me each and every time,

 

[LLJsmom]

There have been a lot of threads about this and Garry has written about it extensively. Here’s a summary; you can find lots more info by searching the forum.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/does-this-stone-appear-milky.259882/#post-4821509

Note that the thread I linked discusses other issues, but the specific comment I linked is relevant.

This is good for @starbrite to see. I've seen some degree of the blue. I can contribute more pics at some point. I don't think of that as "going dark".



Here is an AGS 000 in direct sunlight. 3 carat H color, FYI. IRL I thought of this as reflecting blue. When people say "going dark", I think gray/black/dead.

 

[Kya]

Does that literally mean they "go dark"???

So actually my e ring goes dark!
I love it otherwise and it feels petty but it does bother me when it goes dark. I had no idea that this was characteristic of a xxx stone that scores low on HCA. So its not just my stone...

Here is what I mean sometimes looks like first pic but then will randomly look like the second - (lol I am noticing my hand looks different in different lighting too I guess everything looks different in different lighting. However it bothers me when my diamond looks murky)

 

[starbrite]

What is an "alternative super ideal" that you reference--perhaps I'm misunderstanding? I'd definitely recommend that you try to go view some ideal cut diamonds in person, if you can. You need to visually see if you notice any difference with your own eyes, especially since you already have a XXX. But color also plays a factor too. And you mentioned you're color sensitive. A J/K ideal cut might look as bright as a G/H GIA XXX because of the flashes/sparkle factor. Color might not even be an issue at that point, especially if you're loving the flashes that you see with the ideal cut. I'm still struggling to understand what the industry considers to be a "super ideal" vs "ideal" diamond. What factors separate those two terms, if any? I think at some miniscule level, the terms themselves are about marketing. But I digress. Bottom line for me is that I prefer very well cut and very white diamonds. I'm in that camp of people that prefers all the sparkle, fire, brilliance, scintillation---the whole freaking shabang in whatever way it shows up. I don't care about what lighting conditions you need to be in to best see it, since the reality is I will never be under perfect lighting conditions all the time. All that matters to me is that when I do see those fireworks, they mesmerize me each and every time,

"Alternative" Super Ideal means an alternative choice of Super Ideal vs XXX GIA.

Due to the pandemic being totally out of control where we live, I can't check out diamonds in person. So I'm rather flying blind in selecting diamonds at this point in time.

Being an artist who deals with color in my line of work, I really am extremely color sensitive. Like you, I also want it all: sparkle, fire, brilliance, scintillation. I have absolutely no plans to upgrade or change after this purchase. So I want to get things right. Whatever I select now, I will be living with for the rest of my life.

The idea of a diamond going "dark" in sunshine has now caused me to temporarily put the breaks on selecting a Super Ideal cut until I understand more.

At this rate, I may never get a new ring.

 

[starbrite]

This is good for @starbrite to see. I've seen some degree of the blue. I can contribute more pics at some point. I don't think of that as "going dark".



Here is an AGS 000 in direct sunlight. 3 carat H color, FYI. IRL I thought of this as reflecting blue. When people say "going dark", I think gray/black/dead.

I really would be interested in seeing more photographs. This really is darker than what I was expecting.

I've had this happen with some of the single cut melee diamonds in my wedding ring, but never in a larger stone.

 

[AprilBaby]

Super ideal doesn’t always cost more. I see ACA on WF that cost less than the cr*p at Jared. Same size .

 

[LLJsmom]

So actually my e ring goes dark!
I love it otherwise and it feels petty but it does bother me when it goes dark. I had no idea that this was characteristic of a xxx stone that scores low on HCA. So its not just my stone...

Here is what I mean sometimes looks like first pic but then will randomly look like the second - (lol I am noticing my hand looks different in different lighting too I guess everything looks different in different lighting. However it bothers me when my diamond looks murky)

Could it be reflecting your dark clothing or the dark car interior?

 

[Kya]

Super ideal doesn’t always cost more. I see ACA on WF that cost less than the cr*p at Jared. Same size .

Totally. Because certain Brick and Mortar chains and mall stores have that markup. And also they tend to also have the less diamond educated customers showing up. I remember seeing a 1 carat SI2 I color stone for 9000 at Kays ...

Super ideal will cost more than say, a diamond from blue nile or James allen that is not from their signature cut line.

 

[Kya]

Could it be reflecting your dark clothing or the dark car interior?

I have been through the processes of trying to figure it out. I went
Back and forth wondering that but ultimately didn’t think so because it happens out of my car too. Randomly in my husband’s office lol but maybe not too random because it is very sunny in there?
And my car interior is not that dark and my sweater in that photo was actually lavender.
Idk! I guess I am not really the expert. But it kind of disappoints me that at some points it goes dark at the center and sort of murky around the edges. I didn't have it with my old diamond that was very sparkly but not ideal cut at all.

 

[Elise_k]

One negative for me is the price as well! I own a GIA XXX that is in the ideal range (excellent ASET & hearts and arrows and all that), James Allen studs and a BG signature round.

I’d say the difference in performance between my non-branded (but carefully selected) stone vs. BG signature is approx 5-10% at the most in certain lighting conditions (if I were hard pressed to provide a number) when compared side by side. I felt that the BG stone had slightly more fire. I don’t think a regular (by this, I mean a non-PSer ) person would notice a difference on a casual glance. Probably even if they’re side by side.

Now, between my JA studs and the BG stone, there is about 20-30% difference IMO. It’s significant enough that even my sister (who has minimal interest and knowledge in diamonds) could tell the difference. My JA studs are in no way “duds” as they are very sparkly and bright. They’re certainly way above average in cut, but the BG stone just had that extra fire and scintillation. The cut also helps with the appearance of body colour as you notice the colour less. I could still tell it’s an I when it’s not side by side with other stones (I’m colour sensitive and the lowest colour I own is G), but I felt like I cared less/paid less attention because it was so full of fire.

I think it comes down to what you’re prioritize the most in purchasing the diamonds. Do you want the best bang for your buck? do you care to have that potential extra 5%-10% fire (again, this is arbitrary and from my own experience)? Do you want ease and assurance with shopping since the branded cuts are very consistent in their cut and you won’t need to do as much of your own research? If you don’t enjoy learning about the nitty gritty of cuts of diamonds etc, then the premium will likely worth it to save yourself a headache and lots of time. Do you want/need extra handholding in customer service? Will you be upgrading in the future?

just my two cents.

 

[headlight]

I think the only negative is the price haha. Seriously, though, I don't see the downside of the highest quality. Is it worth it? Wow, there are so many factors that play into that. I can tell you that my 3X in E color is more appealing to my eye than my super ideal that is larger and H color. I do have another super ideal that is larger than my 3X that is a G with Med Blue Fl and I would say it rivals the color of my E due to the precision of the cut + the med blue fl. That stone is mesmerizing. I also have super ideal studs that are in the 90-pointer range that are E color and even in that size (as opposed to stones 2 ct and over) they are knock-outs even from across the room. I guess my point is - and this is obviously priority for me because of what catches my eye - is that color can rate higher for me if debating between non-super ideal but high color over larger super ideal of lower color. Each stone also has other characteristics that can play into it. I love a small table and higher crown. So that profile may be more favorable for me in a particular stone over a larger table + lower crown. I also have that situation amongst my pieces. So I guess super ideal might not always be the preferred choice for someone. Of course, should go without saying that if I had my druthers I would select super ideal with colorless.

 

[LLJsmom]

This is an interesting discussion. I have struggled with it for a while as well. In the end, I too decided for an MRB, I wanted the high color and the super ideal cut. For MRBs I am super color sensitive, and I prefer an icy white color. I also owned an F GIA 3X with PS proportions, and I didn't like the leakage.

Here are some pics of a 3 carat H AGS 000 (not super ideal) compared to a 2 carat super ideal, D in various lighting environments, various room colors, and amount of daylight. I won't specify the vendor for now. These pics were to compare color and light leakage, and edge to edge brightness. I have videos that compare fire, that I am not going to post. I will say that with regard to fire, I think the AGS 000 is comparable to the super ideal. From my experience this AGS 000 is one of the fieriest stones I have ever seen. I love it. I compared it with two other super ideals, an E and a F, and in my opinion it was as fiery as them both. Another PSer has seen this stone in person and agrees with me. But, that is just the opinion of 2 people.

My concern was not only having maximum fire, but I wanted high color and minimal light leakage as well. Thus I went with a super ideal, and had to go down in size.

With regard to color and light leakage, I noticed two scenarios. In some more optimal lighting environments, the color difference was not as noticeable. In dimmer lighting environments, rooms with yellow or warmer walls, warmer lighting, the super ideal was brighter, and I saw much less leakage.

 

[Vegasvick]

I myself have been/started looking at the 1.5 - 1.75 ct range for my ring and do notice these "super ideal cuts" command quite a large premium and was curious myself if they really did command the premium. I guess my only thought was since i'm going to be purchasing the diamond online its almost a safety blanket for someone like me who is uneducated. Pretty much i figure super ideal, vvs1, DEF color, excellent everything, low to none fluoresce. puts the noob buyer like me in the safety zone.

 

[xxxxxx]

This is an interesting discussion. I have struggled with it for a while as well. In the end, I too decided for an MRB, I wanted the high color and the super ideal cut. For MRBs I am super color sensitive, and I prefer an icy white color. I also owned an F GIA 3X with PS proportions, and I didn't like the leakage.

Here are some pics of a 3 carat H AGS 000 (not super ideal) compared to a 2 carat super ideal, D in various lighting environments, various room colors, and amount of daylight. I won't specify the vendor for now. These pics were to compare color and light leakage, and edge to edge brightness. I have videos that compare fire, that I am not going to post. I will say that with regard to fire, I think the AGS 000 is comparable to the super ideal. From my experience this AGS 000 is one of the fieriest stones I have ever seen. I love it. I compared it with two other super ideals, an E and a F, and in my opinion it was as fiery as them both. Another PSer has seen this stone in person and agrees with me. But, that is just the opinion of 2 people.

My concern was not only having maximum fire, but I wanted high color and minimal light leakage as well. Thus I went with a super ideal, and had to go down in size.

With regard to color and light leakage, I noticed two scenarios. In some more optimal lighting environments, the color difference was not as noticeable. In dimmer lighting environments, rooms with yellow or warmer walls, warmer lighting, the super ideal was brighter, and I saw much less leakage.

Beautiful and helpful pictures and diamonds! I’m looking forward to a thread on your new diamond (if you decide to make one).

 

[LLJsmom]

I myself have been/started looking at the 1.5 - 1.75 ct range for my ring and do notice these "super ideal cuts" command quite a large premium and was curious myself if they really did command the premium. I guess my only thought was since i'm going to be purchasing the diamond online its almost a safety blanket for someone like me who is uneducated. Pretty much i figure super ideal, vvs1, DEF color, excellent everything, low to none fluoresce. puts the noob buyer like me in the safety zone.

Welcome. Since you are a new buyer, you may want to remove the trade designation in your profile.