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Does this stone appear milky?

gemini13

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Hi,

Does this stone appear milky to you guys. I got a nice price for this but it has strong fluorescence. D color SI1 clarity

 

Big Fat Facets

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hi!

it really needs to be determined in direct sunlight ...

are you able to provide a video clip, outside, in direct sunlight??
 

gemini13

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hi!

it really needs to be determined in direct sunlight ...

are you able to provide a video clip, outside, in direct sunlight??
She said due to insurance reason, she couldn’t take it outside of the office. She stated that the strong fluorescence doesn’t affect the performance of the stone in any way. She said it has great value because it has strong fluorescence and SI1 but it completely eye clean and clear.

i just don’t see lots of sparkles and see it’s just so white, not sure it is milky or just because it’s a D color. Here is another video close to the door.

 

Big Fat Facets

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surely, she's got security. can security accompany her outside to make a quick video clip for you??

how about a window in the office that allows sunlight to stream in??
 

gemini13

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surely, she's got security. can security accompany her outside to make a quick video clip for you??

how about a window in the office that allows sunlight to stream in??
I don’t think she can do a clip outside. I questioned her about the milky and she said no. The first video that I posted is the second video that she sent me and said that was near to the window so I can see the diamond for what it truly is.

What do you think about the stone in those video?
 

Big Fat Facets

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firstly, very important to know: what is her return policy??

secondly, unless it's in DIRECT sunlight, we won't be able to determine, visually, if the strong fluorescence has adverse affects, such as milkiness, haziness, oiliness...

thirdly, is this vendor in the united states or is it abroad?? where are you, generally, located??

to answer you question, with much reservation, the stone in both the videos appear okay. the lighting is an overhead office lighting, likely to be fluorescent
 

gemini13

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firstly, very important to know: what is her return policy??

secondly, unless it's in DIRECT sunlight, we won't be able to determine, visually, if the strong fluorescence has adverse affects, such as milkiness, haziness, oiliness...

thirdly, is this vendor in the united states or is it abroad?? where are you, generally, located??

to answer you question, with much reservation, the stone in both the videos appear okay. the lighting is an overhead office lighting, likely to be fluorescent

Thank you,

It’s from Lauren B located in NYC. It’s $13,700 includes the setting for 1.7 ct D color SI1 clarity. Their setting is usually expensive, like the pave setting in the picture costs around $2,500 to $2,900 depends on the metal, so the diamond itself is cheap compared to that price.
 

gemini13

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And I live in Arizona. The return policy is 30 days, but custom design cannot be returned. This ring is already set, it is not a custom one.
 

Big Fat Facets

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Thank you,

It’s from Lauren B located in NYC. It’s $13,700 includes the setting for 1.7 ct D color SI1 clarity. Their setting is usually expensive, like the pave setting in the picture costs around $2,500 to $2,900 depends on the metal, so the diamond itself is cheap compared to that price.
good to know.

i understand lauren b to be a reputable vendor. not particularly popular here on the forum but reputable, nontheless.

sounds like they have a solid return policy in place. which is very good

colorless diamonds with fluorescence is, typically, discounted, as long as it does not have adverse affects on the diamond. some avoid it all together while others do not mind the phenomenon. i understand blue fluorescence to occur in 30% of earth mined diamonds. it is a rarity, that's for sure.

since you are located in arizona, you can have the ring shipped to you. and you can view the diamond in DIRECT sunlight to see if it is affected by the strong fluorescence. if at that time, you need more opinions, you can make a video, post it here. we will all chime in, to help you.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

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So far I am not impressed by the advice.
Direct sunlight is of no value.
I have posted an article here several times - if you want Big Fat Facets go to my HD site and read the 2 blogs on this topic.
OP post the diamonds cert or the parts concerning the clarity. If you can get the vendor to take a photo of the shade of blue fluoro - a cheap UV light is better than the proper lab UV tester.
 

gemini13

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So far I am not impressed by the advice.
Direct sunlight is of no value.
I have posted an article here several times - if you want Big Fat Facets go to my HD site and read the 2 blogs on this topic.
OP post the diamonds cert or the parts concerning the clarity. If you can get the vendor to take a photo of the shade of blue fluoro - a cheap UV light is better than the proper lab UV tester.
Thank you sir for the comment. Attached is the GIA certificate of the stone. I have a question: not about this diamond but if the strong fluorescence affects the beauty of the stone (milky/hazy), does it show all the time or just under certain light? And if the vendor can provide a photo of this stone under the UV light, we can tell either it’s good or bad? What do you think about the stone from the those videos above? I personally think the stone isn’t sparkly. Is it true or not?
 

Karl_K

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I get where your coming from Garry but only sunlight has the full range of UV and it is something a consumer will be looking at their diamond in.
I agree it is not the best lighting but it exists and telling someone hey spend 10k on a diamond but never look at it in direct sunlight is kinda bad.
Preparing them to look at what the diamond is projecting light on for a light show is better.
I have seen a diamond that went bright blue in sunlight and shaded sunlight but not under most uv testers including the 380nm-390nm cheap ones and the one gia sells it did not.

Sunlight through a window has a lot of common wavelengths that diamonds are reactive to.
One answer is ask them to put it in writing that the whole thing is returnable for a full refund if it is milky/hazy.

The videos look good. no large dark zones.
 
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Garry H (Cut Nut)

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Thank you sir for the comment. Attached is the GIA certificate of the stone. I have a question: not about this diamond but if the strong fluorescence affects the beauty of the stone (milky/hazy), does it show all the time or just under certain light? And if the vendor can provide a photo of this stone under the UV light, we can tell either it’s good or bad? What do you think about the stone from the those videos above? I personally think the stone isn’t sparkly. Is it true or not?
I am not going to comment on videos that are not diagnostic - nor am I as a trade person going to comment on a vendors diamomd.
I prefer well chosen strong fluorescent diamonds.
I can tell if it is good or bad under very long way UV light.
There are no warning signs on the GIa cert concerning the milkyness possability
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

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I get where your coming from Garry but only sunlight has the full range of UV and it is something a consumer will be looking at their diamond in.
I agree it is not the best lighting but it exists and telling someone hey spend 10k on a diamond but never look at it in direct sunlight is kinda bad.
I have seen a diamond that went bright blue in sunlight and shaded sunlight but not under most uv testers including the 380nm-390nm cheap ones and the one gia sells it did not.
Shaded sunlight. Direct sunlight is way too confusing and cut quality has more impact than fluorescence.
"I have seen a diamond that went bright blue in sunlight and shaded sunlight but not under most uv testers including the 380nm-390nm cheap ones and the one gia sells it did not."
Eaxctly why I said to use a cheap one - they are better and more practical as they are frequencies that are also found indoors as they travel through windows - but I prefer really cheap ones that are more in the 410-390nm range
 

Karl_K

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Shaded sunlight. Direct sunlight is way too confusing and cut quality has more impact than fluorescence.
"I have seen a diamond that went bright blue in sunlight and shaded sunlight but not under most uv testers including the 380nm-390nm cheap ones and the one gia sells it did not."
Eaxctly why I said to use a cheap one - they are better and more practical as they are frequencies that are also found indoors as they travel through windows - but I prefer really cheap ones that are more in the 410-390nm range
slight disagree on sunlight because I enjoy it.
Agree with you on UV led lights the cheap ones are better.
 

gemini13

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I get where your coming from Garry but only sunlight has the full range of UV and it is something a consumer will be looking at their diamond in.
I agree it is not the best lighting but it exists and telling someone hey spend 10k on a diamond but never look at it in direct sunlight is kinda bad.
Preparing them to look at what the diamond is projecting light on for a light show is better.
I have seen a diamond that went bright blue in sunlight and shaded sunlight but not under most uv testers including the 380nm-390nm cheap ones and the one gia sells it did not.

Sunlight through a window has a lot of common wavelengths that diamonds are reactive to.
One answer is ask them to put it in writing that the whole thing is returnable for a full refund if it is milky/hazy.

The videos look good. no large dark zones.
Thank you for the comment! How can I know if it appear milky? Just in person and if isn’t bright? When I look at the video the diamond is just so white. Is it because it’s a D color? I mean I’ve seen some diamond through videos and very lively and sparkly, but this one I don’t see it.
 

123ducklings

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Jun 10, 2020
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Living in Arizona your ring will often be viewed in direct sunlight; I think it’s a good idea to make sure you like how it looks.

Regardless of fluorescence it sounds like you’re not wowed by the cut of this diamond.
 

Karl_K

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Thank you for the comment! How can I know if it appear milky? Just in person and if isn’t bright? When I look at the video the diamond is just so white. Is it because it’s a D color? I mean I’ve seen some diamond through videos and very lively and sparkly, but this one I don’t see it.
You would know it when you saw it.
The lighting determines if you see white light return or fire.
Many online videos have led light just to add fire.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

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The best Cut Diamonds Looks Dark in Sunlight
20181224_105443.jpg
If you look at a diamond in direct sunlight then the better and brighter the cut - the darker the diamond will appear.
I took these photos on a hot 30°C cloudless day in front of my Canterbury store.
The first photo shows 5 different cut styles with direct sunlight coming over my right shoulder. You will note the ideal-cut round on the right appears darkest (with a blue hue from the blue sky).



In the photo below I moved the stones into the shade of my body; note the round ideal-cut is now the brightest! The better the cut the darker a diamond will appear in sunlight.
20181224_105401.jpg
If you want to look at diamonds out-doors then shade direct sunlight.

Fluorescence in Sunlight and Daylight
Many people think the blue colour in sunlight is caused by natural diamond fluorescence (1/3rd of diamonds fluorescence blue in UV light). WRONG! The strongest fluorescent diamonds here are the lower left side cushion and the central marquise (see the next photo). Fluorescence improves the colour appearance of diamonds in daylight but does not cause milky or haziness. That is caused by some types of inclusions when combined with fluorescence.
20181224_105643.jpg

Why Is It So?

See the direct sunlight photo again below - the ideal-cut round diamond is showing blue from the sky and has only a few but very bright flashes. Even though the sun is big, it is a very small point light source. The other fancy shaped diamonds have more smaller less intense bright flashes. The flashes are different in real life; the round cut hurts your eyes.

20181224_105443.jpg
The proof of concept is the yellow diamond; it has a ‘crushed ice’ cut which appears to have many more smaller facets (even though it has 8 less) yet it is the brightest in direct light and the dullest in the shade. If this diamond had been cut into an ideal round cut it would be very pale and less attractive.
 

Big Fat Facets

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@Garry H (Cut Nut)

I standby my statement (opinion) to op @gemini13 regarding his inquiry and concern. it is solid and sound advice. it was not meant to "impress" you or anybody else. the advice, that did not impress you, was meant to help someone.

i understand you are a "professional" and your opinion, will likely, bear more "weight". It takes an individual, of some (professional) class, not to throw that weight around to diminish or invalidate someone trying to help another.

it's a real pity, you as a professional, feel compelled to "step on" someone else's opinion to convey your own opinion.

So far I am not impressed by the advice.
Direct sunlight is of no value.
I have posted an article here several times - if you want Big Fat Facets go to my HD site and read the 2 blogs on this topic.
OP post the diamonds cert or the parts concerning the clarity. If you can get the vendor to take a photo of the shade of blue fluoro - a cheap UV light is better than the proper lab UV tester.
I, unequivocally, disagree with your opinion of ... "direct sunlight is of no value"

i, dare say, lots of us view our diamonds in natural sunlight. Sunlight does indeed offer the full spectrum of uv light. the sunlight can be of a direct nature, or by an open window, or in shade - as long as it is sunlight.
 
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flyingpig

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I agree with @Big Fat Facets
To assess for milkiness or haziness, I would expose the diamond to direct sunlight and view the diamond face up and from the side against bright background.
 

oldminer

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When a stone has strong blue UV fluorescence, it is bound to stand out from others by virtue of a very interesting asking price unless it is "special" in some way such as a couple vendors who offer superbly cut ones to consumers. A diamond of identical quality and cut without the UV feature will have a broader base of potential customers to sell it to. The same thing applies if you ever want to sell the stone yourself. Regardless of the beauty, there is a long standing discount for lots of fluorescence. It may or may not be justified, but it exists. This may change over time as more facts are produced. It might not change.

Look at what it is worth from both buying and selling sides compared to a stone with no UV situation. Very few dealers find UV fluorescence 'interesting" or especially desirable. Yes, a couple do, but why not most or all of them? It is something to consider in the mix of all the things you are weighing before you make the deal.

You have to buy what you love. I love my strongly blue fluorescent diamond but the reality of selling it to a dealer at some future date was part of my understanding when I made the purchase. Not everyone understands you can't reverse the decision easily or without a lesson in a market that is light on demand.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

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I agree with @Big Fat Facets
To assess for milkiness or haziness, I would expose the diamond to direct sunlight and view the diamond face up and from the side against bright background.
I can not remember how many times people have posted on this forum that their diamond looks dark or blue in sunlight. It happens mostly with diamonds that are top cuts, as I explain in thae article above.
This negative feature frightens people.
It is not related to fluorescence at all.
By all means enjoy the cool effects of looking at your own fluorescent diamonds in direct sunlight.
But to assess milky hazy cloudiness in fluorescent diamonds please do it in shaded daylight, up very close to a halogen lamp or some other type of light that emits a fair amount of near visible violet light.

All I ask is you not scare or confuse people by the strange effects of a diamonds seem in any strong single very small point light source.
 

flyingpig

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I can not remember how many times people have posted on this forum that their diamond looks dark or blue in sunlight. It happens mostly with diamonds that are top cuts, as I explain in thae article above.
This negative feature frightens people.
It is not related to fluorescence at all.
By all means enjoy the cool effects of looking at your own fluorescent diamonds in direct sunlight.
But to assess milky hazy cloudiness in fluorescent diamonds please do it in shaded daylight, up very close to a halogen lamp or some other type of light that emits a fair amount of near visible violet light.

All I ask is you not scare or confuse people by the strange effects of a diamonds seem in any strong single very small point light source.
The article/thread you posted and strange/negative effects you mentioned apply to the ideal cut rounds. We are talking about OP's pear. Leaky elongated cuts and crushed ice cuts behave completely differently and do not show negative effects under direct sunlight like the ideal rounds do. In fact, those diamonds really shines and appear graceful under direct sunlight and your marquise in the photo proves this. Furthermore, I can make some assessment on cloudiness for that marquise in that photo. I do not see scattering of light inside the diamond and the diamond appears clear crystal-like. Therefore, it is not milky; am I wrong here?
People complain about their rounds going dark under direct sunlight. I have not read a single thread where a poster complains about strange appearance of his/her oval, pear,crushed ice or marquise under direct sunlight.

Cloudiness is cause by scattering of light. The more intense the light source is the more visible the scattering effect is. Sunlight is real, has UV and is intense. I disagree with your advise not to assess milkiness/cloudiness under direct sunlight. But I do agree you with working with a strong single point small light source is not easy.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

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True. It is difficult to work with. But it is there everyday. Can be useful. Gotta learn how to use it properly.
There is some blue in all the diamonds (except the yellow) in direct sunlight. I urge you not to advise people to look at diamonds in direct sunlight because on blue sky days the blue is the reflection of the sky.
It is misleading and confuses people FP.
 
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