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Are these good diamonds?

starbrite

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
122
As a continuation of my other thread, I’m trying to finalize getting my 5 stone anniversary ring that was meant for our June milestone anniversary. After months of stress, a custom design has finally been finished and agreed upon.

Now, we’re down to selecting the diamonds.

I really wanted Super Ideal cut VVS1 diamonds D quality, but have agreed (with the jeweler) to “settle” for Super Ideal cut VS1 F color. The problem is that she can only obtain GIA diamonds. GIA doesn't do "Super Ideal" cut. Fine if the cut still comes close to being what I really want.

The jeweler has given me the option of the below 6 stones to select from for my 5 stone ring. However, from what I’ve read, the crown angle & pavilion angle on these stones don’t quite seem compatible with a “super ideal-like” cut. I haven’t seen the diamonds and the jeweler isn’t providing any photos. She just gave me the #’s to the GIA reports. So I only have those numbers to go by.

I’m a rooky to selecting diamonds. I desperately need help to tell if what she’s offering are good stones or if I should ask for different choices. This is a once in a lifetime ring for a once in a lifetime milestone anniversary: neither of which will be repeated. So I want to get everything right. Our anniversary was almost 5 months ago & I’ve been working with this jeweler since April to just get the custom design right. Now that that the ring design finally seems to be what I want, I really don’t want to settle on the diamonds for my setting. I want diamonds I’ll really like. Cut is important to me.

Pricewise, this jeweler is asking about the same for VS1 F GIA diamonds as White Flash seems to be getting for their VVS1 D ACA diamonds of the same size. However, the jeweler (who designed the setting) insists on sourcing the diamonds. So if I want this setting (which took months to create), I must stay with her.

I know that GIA is rather loose on “Cut” and “Excellent Cut” can range from a mish mash design to pretty hearts and stars. All of the below stones are GIA “Excellent” graded with no Florescence. Other details can be seen with each attachment.

In your opinion, should I accept these stones (or any of them) or do I need to tell the jeweler to more limit her search for diamonds. If the later, what should I be asking for?

Help!!! Please. Stone #1.jpg Stone #1.jpg Stone #2.jpg Stone #3.jpg Stone #4.jpg Stone #5.jpg Stone #6.jpg
 

maryjane04

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 21, 2013
Messages
519
I only got to plug in the HCAs of the first 3:
Stone 1: 4.6
Stone 2: 4.9
Stone 3: 2.2 - probably the best of the three.

There isn't much to choose from when you are given 6 to choose 5 from.
 

starbrite

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
122
Should I ask for more stones to select from? What specifics should I be looking for?

Looking at stone #3, the crown angle and pavilion angles don't seem to go together to fit into "super ideal" stats, do they?

As I said, I don't have a lot of experience with this and am just learning.

At this point, I'd be willing to select one stone at a time if they're the kind of diamonds I'm hoping to see in this ring. The jeweler's main concern was that the table size on all the stones being similar. That's probably why she only came up with 6 choices from her newest shipment from Israel.
 

maryjane04

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 21, 2013
Messages
519
This thread might be helpful:

Although other more experienced PS'ers can chime in.
 

starbrite

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
122
This thread might be helpful:

Although other more experienced PS'ers can chime in.
I've overwhelmed.

Buying diamonds without ever seeing them or even a photo seems daunting.
 

maryjane04

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 21, 2013
Messages
519
I guess that's why buying from a super ideal vendor takes the stress out of individually hand picking diamonds.
 

AllAboardTheBlingTrain

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 22, 2020
Messages
828
I’m not really a super ideal expert, but in any case, I doubt that she can source “super ideals” for you since those refer to conditions of perfect optical symmetry etc. However she could be able to get you diamonds that are within those narrow ranges of proportions etc. So you can perhaps provide her those and begin.

if she isn’t able to get you stones you want and you reject her stones a few times, I’m not sure if this will work, but you could try and find out from your jeweler what it would take for her to set your stones instead of having her source them. She might want to charge you an additional setting fee or something, but it might be worth finding out. And then you can order yourself 5 ACAs and have her set them which would be the best of both worlds.

Failing that - and I’m sure this is something you really wouldn’t want to do, but would you be willing to walk away from her and to a different craftsperson who will be willing to work with outside stones? I know you’ve spent a lot of time on the design but if you pay for the CADs you wouldn’t be doing wrong by your current jeweler, and you should now have a really good idea of exactly what you want + base CADs to get what you want from another artisan. And then you’ll be able to do this once in a lifetime ring right. I can understand that you really don’t want to go through the designing again but I would urge you to consider it... it’ll be a much less painful process once you have the base CADs and a clearer idea of what you want.

edit: this is just my perspective and it might sound a little annoyed on your behalf but it really irritates me when jewelers refuse to set outside stones. If she isn’t able to source what you want then she should let you do it. This ring should fill you with joy and excitement, not nervousness and anxiety.
 

starbrite

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
122
I’m not really a super ideal expert, but in any case, I doubt that she can source “super ideals” for you since those refer to conditions of perfect optical symmetry etc. However she could be able to get you diamonds that are within those narrow ranges of proportions etc. So you can perhaps provide her those and begin.

if she isn’t able to get you stones you want and you reject her stones a few times, I’m not sure if this will work, but you could try and find out from your jeweler what it would take for her to set your stones instead of having her source them. She might want to charge you an additional setting fee or something, but it might be worth finding out. And then you can order yourself 5 ACAs and have her set them which would be the best of both worlds.

Failing that - and I’m sure this is something you really wouldn’t want to do, but would you be willing to walk away from her and to a different craftsperson who will be willing to work with outside stones? I know you’ve spent a lot of time on the design but if you pay for the CADs you wouldn’t be doing wrong by your current jeweler, and you should now have a really good idea of exactly what you want + base CADs to get what you want from another artisan. And then you’ll be able to do this once in a lifetime ring right. I can understand that you really don’t want to go through the designing again but I would urge you to consider it... it’ll be a much less painful process once you have the base CADs and a clearer idea of what you want.

edit: this is just my perspective and it might sound a little annoyed on your behalf but it really irritates me when jewelers refuse to set outside stones. If she isn’t able to source what you want then she should let you do it. This ring should fill you with joy and excitement, not nervousness and anxiety.
You have said pretty much what I've been thinking.

I need something concrete now to tell her why I'm not thrilled with the stones she has offered this time around. I don't see these stones as the GIA equivalent of Super Ideal cut. But I'm not an expert and have a lot to learn myself.

I have to call the local jeweler, but I want to be more informed about the diamonds in order to have a fruitful conversation. Since these 6 diamonds are the first batch she's gotten from Israel since we started talking diamond specifics, I'm hesitant to move on until she's proven she really can't provide what I want.

Hopefully, other PriceScopers will help me understand these diamonds better.
 

starbrite

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
122
Did the stats on all 6 stones come through? On my computer only stone #2 shows, The others are blacked out with an x.
 

AllAboardTheBlingTrain

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 22, 2020
Messages
828
You have said pretty much what I've been thinking.

I need something concrete now to tell her why I'm not thrilled with the stones she has offered this time around. I don't see these stones as the GIA equivalent of Super Ideal cut. But I'm not an expert and have a lot to learn myself.

I have to call the local jeweler, but I want to be more informed about the diamonds in order to have a fruitful conversation. Since these 6 diamonds are the first batch she's gotten from Israel since we started talking diamond specifics, I'm hesitant to move on until she's proven she really can't provide what I want.

Hopefully, other PriceScopers will help me understand these diamonds better.
Again making it super clear that im not an expert but... firstly, the first couple of them are a bit deep (depth is a touch high) for my taste (I like to stick to 62 as an upper limit because I like to max spread), plus you want the crown and pavillion angles to work with each other, so if the crown angle is a bit low (towards 33.5-34) then the pavillion should be a bit on the higher side (40.8-41). To be safe you should aim for the 34-35 crown angle and 40.8 pavillion. It’s better to mess around a bit with the crown as opposed to the pavillion (tiny changes in the latter have a huge impact on the appearance of a diamond). Smaller tables lend themselves to more fire, so 55-58 should be a safe range for table.

I think you need to figure out if you want a “super ideal” diamond or a “well cut” diamond - those are not necessarily the same thing (super ideals are all well cut but not vice versa).
 

LIGemzGal

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 19, 2020
Messages
189
I’m not really a super ideal expert, but in any case, I doubt that she can source “super ideals” for you since those refer to conditions of perfect optical symmetry etc. However she could be able to get you diamonds that are within those narrow ranges of proportions etc. So you can perhaps provide her those and begin.

if she isn’t able to get you stones you want and you reject her stones a few times, I’m not sure if this will work, but you could try and find out from your jeweler what it would take for her to set your stones instead of having her source them. She might want to charge you an additional setting fee or something, but it might be worth finding out. And then you can order yourself 5 ACAs and have her set them which would be the best of both worlds.

Failing that - and I’m sure this is something you really wouldn’t want to do, but would you be willing to walk away from her and to a different craftsperson who will be willing to work with outside stones? I know you’ve spent a lot of time on the design but if you pay for the CADs you wouldn’t be doing wrong by your current jeweler, and you should now have a really good idea of exactly what you want + base CADs to get what you want from another artisan. And then you’ll be able to do this once in a lifetime ring right. I can understand that you really don’t want to go through the designing again but I would urge you to consider it... it’ll be a much less painful process once you have the base CADs and a clearer idea of what you want.

edit: this is just my perspective and it might sound a little annoyed on your behalf but it really irritates me when jewelers refuse to set outside stones. If she isn’t able to source what you want then she should let you do it. This ring should fill you with joy and excitement, not nervousness and anxiety.
I agree with above. I'm also not a super ideal expert by any means but those are my preferred type of stones when I purchase diamonds. I'm still researching and learning myself. Although the stones are perfect to garner a GIA XXX, those ranges may not necessarily be super ideal. And GIA does not grade for super ideal, as we all know. It's hard to say those stones are on the super ideal spectrum if your looking for absolute validation that they are. I've read there is a range for that spectrum but I tend to associate super ideals with H & A. Do super ideal stones have to be a H&A to be considered super deal? People have differing opinions on this. I've been thinking about this a lot lately. Nevertheless, as for my preferences, I now tend to base my stones on the ranges necessary to achieve an H&A. From what I understand, the following are important factors: table size, crown angle, pavillion, angle, star facets and lower girdle half length. For kicks, I did compare your stones to the H&A ranges and here's where they fall:

Table size in optimal range for stones 1 to 6
Crown and pavilion angles out of range for stones 1 to 5 and in optimal range for stone 6
Star facets in optimal range for stones 1 to 5 and in range for stone 6
Lower Girdle Half in range for stones 1 to 6

But also keep in mind that if one of those five factors do not fall within range, i.e. like if the crown or pavilion angles are not in range, that can perhaps be compensated for by a lower or higher lower girdle half or table size, etc. So one would think that a slight deficiency in one aspect can be made up in another, but I'm not any type of expert to know how that compensation should be applied.

It'd be nice if you could see how the stones perform. I wouldn't recommend purchasing them sight unseen, despite them having GiA XXX. If she gets them and you don't like them you both will not be happy.
 

headlight

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 2, 2003
Messages
2,587
How large are these stones? The carat weight does not line up with the measurements.
 

MissGotRocks

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
12,722
The diamonds will be the most important part of the ring. Find the diamonds that you love from a vendor that you can collaborate with on a setting. Not a fan of the diamonds that were chosen for you. They need to match closely in diameter and have measurements more like the following:

Table 55-57
Depth no more than 62.2
Crown 34-35
Pavilion 40.6 - 40.9

I have a five stone 2.0 carat ring - each diamond being .40. All I can see from the top of my hand is the diamonds. The setting comes into play from the side view but again, I would choose this ring for the diamond cut quality - not the setting.
 

starbrite

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
122
The diamonds will be the most important part of the ring. Find the diamonds that you love from a vendor that you can collaborate with on a setting. Not a fan of the diamonds that were chosen for you. They need to match closely in diameter and have measurements more like the following:

Table 55-57
Depth no more than 62.2
Crown 34-35
Pavilion 40.6 - 40.9

I have a five stone 2.0 carat ring - each diamond being .40. All I can see from the top of my hand is the diamonds. The setting comes into play from the side view but again, I would choose this ring for the diamond cut quality - not the setting.
Since everyone (who answered) have agreed with my own initial opinion, I'm going to tell the jeweler that these are not the stones for me. Only Stone #6 seemed to come close on paper & I wasn't absolutely thrilled with it. Its stats doesn't totally line up.

I see now that I made a big mistake with this ring by not sourcing the diamonds before getting in too deep in having a custom setting designed by someone who may not be able to get the kind of diamonds I really want. She also seems to be unwilling to work with stones from another vendor.

This is the first time I've had a custom ring designed where I didn't already have at least the main stone first.

I had already given this jeweler the above dimensions. The 6 diamond reports that I posted here are as close as she can come at this time. Her company touts themselves as only selling the top 5% of diamonds in each grade, but that obviously doesn't mean super ideal cut.

As for diamond sizing, do all 5 of the stones need to be exactly the same diameter to look good??? I noted that the stones offered ranged from 0.4 to 0.42. Can you see enough difference between a 0.4 round diamond and a 0.42 diamond to make things look unbalanced? I know that color difference probably can be spotted, but can very slight 0.02 size variation?
 

maryjane04

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 21, 2013
Messages
519
As for diamond sizing, do all 5 of the stones need to be exactly the same diameter to look good??? I noted that the stones offered ranged from 0.4 to 0.42. Can you see enough difference between a 0.4 round diamond and a 0.42 diamond to make things look unbalanced? I know that color difference probably can be spotted, but can very slight 0.02 size variation?
As your setting is a bezel setting I think you could get away with the slight size difference. But that might mean more metal around the diamond. I don't know if that is a preference or not?

I am currently getting a 7 stone made and they were all over the shop in terms of diameters. And my jeweller told me that we couldn't do shared prongs because the sizes were off. But we found another setting that fits.
 

starbrite

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
122
As your setting is a bezel setting I think you could get away with the slight size difference. But that might mean more metal around the diamond. I don't know if that is a preference or not?

I am currently getting a 7 stone made and they were all over the shop in terms of diameters. And my jeweller told me that we couldn't do shared prongs because the sizes were off. But we found another setting that fits.
I thought I'd found diamonds I like, but the sizes aren't uniform. Like the ones the local jeweler has offered, they range between 0.40 and 0.42 in size which means a variance of .1 & .2 in diameter. Since my local jeweler hasn't been helpful on this front, I really wonder how noticeable the size variation would be. Very noticeable would bother me. But I don't know at what point something goes from just different to noticeably different. Finding 5 stones of exactly the same size and color and similar clarity is quite difficult.

How different are the sizes of your stones for a 7 stone ring? Did you chose your stones or did your jeweler?

What about table size? Should that also match? Finding a single stone one loves is difficult, but the job of finding 5 or more perfectly matched stones seems almost impossible.
 

maryjane04

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 21, 2013
Messages
519
Finding 5 stones of exactly the same size and color and similar clarity is quite difficult.

How different are the sizes of your stones for a 7 stone ring? Did you chose your stones or did your jeweler?

What about table size? Should that also match? Finding a single stone one loves is difficult, but the job of finding 5 or more perfectly matched stones seems almost impossible.
I actually didn't find the stones. My family did. There was a jeweller closing down in their city probably similar to your local one. And they picked what was left in stock - although they have eagle eyes. Here they are: so asian jewellers don't sell diamonds based on their carat weight. They sell it via diameter or mm. So the biggest one is 4.3, then 2 x 4.2, 2 x 4.1 and 2 x 3.9mm. I had them sent down to my local jeweller who is making the setting for me. I think they had to recheck the measurements for the CAD (attached is the sketch which is not the CAD lol). I had my local jeweller weigh them out and it was around 1.93ctw.

121529125_384161156074530_5727630189306469605_n.jpg

121645006_435877714048061_1475903221619682567_n (1).jpg
 

starbrite

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
122
I actually didn't find the stones. My family did. There was a jeweller closing down in their city probably similar to your local one. And they picked what was left in stock - although they have eagle eyes. Here they are: so asian jewellers don't sell diamonds based on their carat weight. They sell it via diameter or mm. So the biggest one is 4.3, then 2 x 4.2, 2 x 4.1 and 2 x 3.9mm. I had them sent down to my local jeweller who is making the setting for me. I think they had to recheck the measurements for the CAD (attached is the sketch which is not the CAD lol). I had my local jeweller weigh them out and it was around 1.93ctw.

121529125_384161156074530_5727630189306469605_n.jpg

121645006_435877714048061_1475903221619682567_n (1).jpg
This is going to be a beautiful ring. With the design, the slight size variation in stones won't take away from its beauty. Due to their sizes and your having two, two, two, and one, they will look matched. These stones are a wonderful find by your family. I look forward to seeing your finished ring. I'm excited for you!
 

maryjane04

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 21, 2013
Messages
519
This is going to be a beautiful ring. With the design, the slight size variation in stones won't take away from its beauty. Due to their sizes and your having two, two, two, and one, they will look matched. These stones are a wonderful find by your family. I look forward to seeing your finished ring. I'm excited for you!
Thank you! I was so glad that I didn't have to pick out the stones myself but to be honest I am more of an old cut girl at heart anyway. I wouldn't have picked these MRB if I had a choice hahaha. I have no idea about cut, size, colour, clarity on any of these, so I have asked my jeweller to do a valuation for me when they set it. I think it was a bargain the price that they paid for the diamonds so I am not that fussed lol it was just under $2400 AUD for the diamonds and the setting was $2500 AUD.

Initially wanted a simple shared prong setting but my jeweller said to me that because the diamonds are varying sizes we couldn't do the shared prongs. Which was fine, so each diamond will have 4 prongs each. Initially it was going to be my upgrade wedding ring, but I think this will overpower my upgrade e-ring, so it will be a RHR instead.

It was a really simple process with my jeweller so I hope that yours could be as well. I am sorry that it has been such a stressful experience for you. And the fact that your jeweller is not very responsive in following up with you. Might be time to think about whether or not you want to proceed with this jeweller.
 

starbrite

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
122
I think your ring is going to be lovely.

Indeed, selecting stones for a multi stone ring can be difficult because of all the variables that need to line up. It looks like you got a nice selection of stones that will make a very pretty ring: even if they aren't old cut.

My engagement ring is an older cut, family heirloom & I wanted Super Ideals for this anniversary ring. Since I haven't heard a peep from the local jeweler in over 3 weeks, I've been looking in other directions for selecting my own stones. I've been told that the two most important features in matching is diamond diameter and table sizes. So your family getting stones for you according to mm dimensions - rather than by caret weight alone - was wise. You can see how they'll really line up in a ring.

The longer my anniversary ring takes, the more I'm learning about diamonds. So I guess that's the positive in this looooooog process on the road to a custom designed anniversary ring that probably should have taken a month or two; not 9 months to a year...

At this point, I'm pretty sure I won't be getting my diamonds from the local jeweler. She can't provide what I really want.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
22,683
Buy/get your CADS and walk away. Are you in the US?

Buy Super Ideals and have DK make your setting.
 

starbrite

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
122
Buy/get your CADS and walk away. Are you in the US?

Buy Super Ideals and have DK make your setting.
Yes, I am in the US and yes, I have decided to totally walk away from the local jewelers' selections of diamonds.

Per new thread, I now have 4 Super Ideal cut diamonds on 24 hour hold. Hopefully someone will give me some feedback on the stones I have picked out. Matching multi diamonds isn't as easy as I had thought it would be.

But at least now, I'm looking at the cut quality that I want and not just what the local jeweler has on hand. The price of both White Flash (VVS1 & VVS2/ D & E) diamonds is slightly lower than the local jeweler's for her non Super Ideal Cut (VS1 F) stones.

If anyone who reads this thread can hop over to the new thread https://www.pricescope.com/communit...-until-5-pm-tomorrow-friday-to-decide.261702/
to give me their opinions, I would greatly appreciate it. I only have until 5 PM tomorrow to purchase the White Flash diamonds or let them go.
 

caf

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
1,218
Ask WF to photograph and video them all together. Ask them to describe pluses and minuses of each. you’re looking at super ideals - they are the best of the best.
 

starbrite

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
122
Ask WF to photograph and video them all together. Ask them to describe pluses and minuses of each. you’re looking at super ideals - they are the best of the best.
Will Whiteflash do that?

Although their Website works kind of funky for me (on & off), I have seen videos of each stone at the Website. All look pretty good to me, but these videos haven't been with the stones all together in one clip to see how they'd line up in a 5 stone ring.
 

maryjane04

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 21, 2013
Messages
519
But at least now, I'm looking at the cut quality that I want and not just what the local jeweler has on hand. The price of both White Flash (VVS1 & VVS2/ D & E) diamonds is slightly lower than the local jeweler's for her non Super Ideal Cut (VS1 F) stones.
Wow, you were totally being ripped off from that jeweller then. Definitely go the super ideal from WF, its a no brainer.

Will Whiteflash do that?

Although their Website works kind of funky for me (on & off), I have seen videos of each stone at the Website. All look pretty good to me, but these videos haven't been with the stones all together in one clip to see how they'd line up in a 5 stone ring.
Yes WF have stellar customer service and will provide additional photos and videos to make your selection a breeze! Good luck.
 

caf

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
1,218
Will Whiteflash do that?

Although their Website works kind of funky for me (on & off), I have seen videos of each stone at the Website. All look pretty good to me, but these videos haven't been with the stones all together in one clip to see how they'd line up in a 5 stone ring.
Wink did it for me with CBIs at High Performance Diamonds. It helped so much to see them. I think WF does too!
 
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