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All seems good but crown angle ?

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by Smm123, Nov 22, 2015.

  1. Smm123
    Rough_Rock

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    by Smm123 » Nov 22, 2015
    Hi guys,

    I purchased a diamond that ha a table of 60% and depth of 59.9%. Pavilion angle of 41.4 and crown angle of 32.5. Clarity is vs1 color H and ex cut polish symmetry graded by Gia. Most sites I have read state crown angles should be more around 34%. 32 being low is making me worry of a bad looking diamond as I have never seen it. Is this going to take a lot away from the diamond and because of this will it still have the hearts and arrows ?
     
    


    


  2. Smm123
    Rough_Rock

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    by Smm123 » Nov 22, 2015
    It is a .91ct btw.
     
  3. flyingpig
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by flyingpig » Nov 22, 2015
    The range of of cut quality and light performance is too broad. I am afraid the stone may not be a good performer.
    https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca
    Punch in all numbers, and see what you get for HCA score.

    You want a number below 2.0. But your stone is 3.7. In addition, the stone does not qualify for AGS ideal either. The stone is clearly situated outside the white outline.
     
  4. Smm123
    Rough_Rock

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    by Smm123 » Nov 22, 2015
    I had a diamond that did perform better on the hca. 33.5 crown angle and 41pavillipn angle and same depth and table. Measurements were 6.22-6.26 x3.76. And she old me a .9 has to be 6.3 and I'm focusing to much on the cut and color and not enough on long term value. Does that make sense or did I get ripped off
     
    


    


  5. MissGotRocks
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by MissGotRocks » Nov 22, 2015
    Are you able to return the stone or to be able to cancel the transaction and get a refund?

    Focusing on the cut should be your first priority. I am assuming she thinks that you should be thinking about purchase price over and above anything else. I strongly disagree with this statement - if she were selling you a well cut stone at a competitive price she would not even need to say this.

    The stone doesn't score well on the HCA because of the low crown angle AND the high pavilion angle. If you are able to cancel the transaction, I would seriously consider doing so. We would be happy to help you find a stone if we know your budget, size, color and clarity parameters. There are better ways to buy a diamond!
     
  6. gm89uk
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by gm89uk » Nov 22, 2015
    ^That above stone has a depth % of a very reasonable 60.3%. Based on numbers your first diamond should have been the better performer. What did you think seeing as you have (assuming) seen both stones?
     
  7. gr8leo87
    Shiny_Rock

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    by gr8leo87 » Nov 22, 2015
    6.3mm is the classic diameter of 60/60 90 points stone just like 6.5mm is the classic diameter of a 60/60 1ct. stone. This was one of the way to judge the cut of stone before HCAs and what nots. However the ideal cuts and the cuts preferred on this forum are a bit deepish (according to classic definition) with small table (according to industry standards) that results in better overall light performance. I prefer ideal cuts too. You sacrifice around 3-5% spread to achieve more brightness and dispersion (given the angles are right). You'll see HCA dinging stones on spread score on anything above 60% in depth.
     
  8. flyingpig
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by flyingpig » Nov 23, 2015
    It is rather hard to find a GIA triple x with 32.5 crown angle.

    1. http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.02-carat-i-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-618355
    2. http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.12-carat-h-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-352018
    3. http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.91-carat-g-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-768573

    Would you buy stone 1 or 2 or 3, assuming they have the same color grade/carat and are priced accordingly?? Stone 1 and 2's proportions somewhat resemble the stone you picked. I was not able to find 32.5-41.4 combo.

    Here is a thread of 60/60 stone with 32.5 crown angle.
    https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/judge-this-ideal-scope.200810/

    It can be good, I guess....
     
  9. decisively_unsure
    Shiny_Rock

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    by decisively_unsure » Nov 23, 2015
    Unfortunately this is yet another thread with some bad advice...

    HCA isn't the be all and end all, and the specs of the diamond look fine. The shallower crown angle offsets the steeper pavillion angle, and this stone is clearly cut as a 60/60. It might not has as much fire as an 'ideal' cut, but it'll be BRIGHT BRIGHT BRIGHT. Some people will prefer this style stone to a 'super ideal hearts and arrows'.
     
  10. Wink
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

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    by Wink » Nov 23, 2015
    Decisively_unsure is right that the HCA is not the end all and be all. It is a rejection tool, letting you know where you might wish to spend your time looking further.

    I disagree though that this thread has given the OP bad advice on the whole. That stone will pale upon comparison with a well cut diamond, seen side by side and in a variety of lighting conditions. While there will be some who prefer this to a top cut ideal, my personal experience is that they are VERY few compared to those who love the proliferation of colored light amongst the bigger flashes of both white and colored light that precise cutting produces. In my opinion, the worst advice the OP has received is that he should not concentrate so much on the cut.

    As for long term value, that advice also reeks. Over the next ten to twenty years, as the public starts to realize that cut is important and that the current GIA cut grade system is too wide, there will be a tightening of both the AGS and GIA cut grading systems. During that time, both of the stones mentioned above will surely drop from the GIA Excellent cut grading category and the value will commensurately drop. The cutting revolution is far from over, as is the recognition of top quality cutting by the top tier laboratories. The cutters will resist further change, just as they did the initial introduction of cutting grades, but when the public is educated enough to demand it, it will happen. While the diamonds offered to our OP may be pretty, they are far from fantastic and looking at numbers will never be enough for our OP to know with HIS EYES what they prefer. That will take some shopping around in Bricks and Mortar stores that will show him the diamond in various lights to see what HIS EYES like. My bet is it will NOT be diamonds with pavilion angles of 41.4 paired with crown angles of 32.5.

    Just my thoughts on a still dark Monday morning as I ready myself for the last three days before thanksgiving. I hope you all have a wonderful week!

    Wink

    P.S. The OP asks also about H&A. This we can not answer from the numbers, but must use reflector images to know. We can surmise and guess, but we can not know.
     
    


    


  11. Smm123
    Rough_Rock

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    by Smm123 » Nov 24, 2015



    I would not. As this stone has been purchased. and the price was a lot less then the James Allen stones. Thank you though. Greatly appreciate your help :)
     
  12. Smm123
    Rough_Rock

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    by Smm123 » Nov 24, 2015

    Thank you. Through my research I have learned 60:60 stones are brighter but less fire and I like that. Although I searched the crown angles I found one site which I don't remember which one that had a list of symmetry's that worked for 60:60. 32.5 and 41.5 was one of them. How ever reading a lot of other sites focusing on h&a I started to worry. Thank you for your positive feed back. I am now really looking forward to see this ring once it is shipped :)
     
  13. Smm123
    Rough_Rock

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    by Smm123 » Nov 24, 2015
    Thanks for your input. I suppose when I get the ring I will have to judge for myself. I'm hoping for the best as I don't need the hassle. But if I shall have to return it i will be looking for some great advice for a new stone.
     
  14. Smm123
    Rough_Rock

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    by Smm123 » Nov 25, 2015



    Wellllll. You were right. This stone is VERY bright and beautiful. Exactly what I wanted!!!
     
  15. JDDN
    Ideal_Rock

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    by JDDN » Nov 25, 2015

    Excellent, you got exactly what you wanted!! That's the ultimate goal. :)) Enjoy your diamond!
     
    


    


  16. MissGotRocks
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by MissGotRocks » Nov 25, 2015
    Please post pictures for us!
     
  17. Smm123
    Rough_Rock

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    by Smm123 » Nov 26, 2015
    Well. I must say. Buying your first diamond is quite nerve racking. Especially via the Internet. You don't have any sort of connection with the person on the other end. Although when ever I asked a question it was answered almost immediately and honestly (clearly), I was still a bit concerned about the crown angle being shallow due to all the sites stating it has to be this or this or it will be ugly. ( HCR tool was not accurate in this case). I had read all of this after purchasing the diamond and began to worry a bit and had found this site. It has came to my understanding great knowledge comes with experience. Experience from working with and visually seeing multiple styles and cuts of diamonds and not just what is "suppose" to be the best and knowing other stones can be very very beautiful as well ( much like the owner of this post above ). I do appreciate all the feed back from this site and is very useful to have.( thank you very much ). Although a few answers near the top of this thread got me real worried I still had some confidence as you cannot find a bad review from MDC diamonds. Some answers opened up my eyes as to why he had said what he said. Moishy from MDC diamonds sure knows what he is talking about and gave his honest and knowledgeable advice. I had ideas on some of the diamonds that I had thought were what I wanted. After I explained exactly what I was looking for he recommended I did not purchase any of them. Instead had came up with an option for one that was also CHEAPER and of better quality and is 100% exactly what I wanted. Trust is not an easy thing to just give out especially when it comes to money, however Moishy has gained my trust and I will be buying my wedding ring and future jewellery from him at MDC diamonds. I had giving Moishy a day that I would like to pick up this ring and it was there with a tracking number so simple and so easy. Hands down some of the best service I have received in a long time. THANK YOU.



    This picture does not do justice of how bright it really is and clearly not professional but you can get an idea.

    _35380.jpg
     
  18. MissGotRocks
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by MissGotRocks » Nov 26, 2015
    I am happy that you have found a stone that you love. Congratulations and best wishes for many years of happiness!

    I must say, though, that your comment regarding the HCA being wrong is incorrect. If we input the numbers from your stone into the HCA, it scores a 3.4 - worth buying if the price is right. It did not say that you would have an ugly diamond. However, it scores well above a 2 and for most of us that would be a red flag. The HCA is a rejection tool - not a selection tool - so it simply means that someone looking for a very well cut stone would probably pass on that one and keep looking. This is a diamond education forum so when you posed the question about the shallow crown angle, the answers were pretty much on par with what we know to be true. Without the benefit of seeing a stone, we must start somewhere with parameters to help us weed out stones. I also do not believe the HCA is overrated - it is simply a tool to be used and its guidance has been proven time and time again.

    I am not at all familiar with the vendor that you have used but I am very glad that he was able to gain your trust. I presume that you got a stone that you love within your price point. The journey to purchase a stone may not be the same for all but as long as you love what you have, that's all that matters!
     
  19. flyingpig
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by flyingpig » Nov 27, 2015
    I am glad that you got a diamond you wanted. I am curious about 60/60 as well, and may consider a stone with such proportions in the future, if price is right. I think that is the key.
     
  20. Smm123
    Rough_Rock

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    by Smm123 » Nov 27, 2015

    A valid point. Thank you. I guess where I got confused is its just okay if it's not in the 2 or below rang. Or its just okay but still good if it's not hearts and arrows range. It's what seems to get perceived of these web sites. But if you look at it the way you described instead it would be a useful tool. :).
     
  21. Smm123
    Rough_Rock

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    by Smm123 » Nov 27, 2015

    Well I must say if the price is right it should be the key to anything you buy :) lol. But yes. Look into it. Gorgeous combination with plstinium Really makes it a bright clean looking ring. I think I would like more fire and scintillation on a yellow gold ring though. But that's my thoughts. Thank you for all your help.
     

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