Find your diamond
Find your jewelry
shape
carat
color
clarity

Akoya opinions? I think I need a reality check...

jeweln

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 21, 2011
Messages
587
Great !
I am obsessed with pics of soap bubble Akoyas. Don't own any ,but wonder if they really exist ! I did check my local Mayors jewelry store for Mikimoto pearl studs , they had A ,AA, AAA . I did not notice anything special except the pink color . of course the luster was good but did not look to my eye out of this world . I had also bought & returned 2 strands from PP , one was 7 mm Hanadama , the other was baroque Akoyas . Maybe my expectations of mirror luster & rainbow orient are unrealistic . I keep searching in Ebay & Etsy too .
 

AV_

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 5, 2018
Messages
3,841
ctd. I've run through my pictures & now there is a very bright pearl on top of some polished gold sheet on my desk, grinning at my macro lens that cannot see right; something gotta give!
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
20,685
ctd. I've run through my pictures & now there is a very bright pearl on top of some polished gold sheet on my desk, grinning at my macro lens that cannot see right; something gotta give!
Keep battling it @AV_, we'll be your cheerleading squad :bigsmile:

I want to see these photos. There, see, my agenda ::)
 

katbran

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 4, 2011
Messages
735
We all want to see the photos ! :D I didn't realise that so many lived close to home here in Australia! Hope you are all well and staying safe.
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
20,685
@jeweln Well. That sure sounds familiar.

I'm really, really looking forward to seeing this newest. I want to open the box and gasp. I've been chatting a bit with Andrew Moline - the man behind amoline - the past couple weeks, and he seems to be... Both very capable of perfectionist nitpicking and very willing to turn down everything that doesn't meet his every demand: "Close enough" is insufficient. It's a promising combination :cool2:

@katbran Where in Australia are you? I was in Brisbane and Canberra for a few years ::) I'm in the US now. Haven't been back to Australia or NZ in so many years now :(sad
 

Daisys and Diamonds

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
4,337
@jeweln Well. That sure sounds familiar.

I'm really, really looking forward to seeing this newest. I want to open the box and gasp. I've been chatting a bit with Andrew Moline - the man behind amoline - the past couple weeks, and he seems to be... Both very capable of perfectionist nitpicking and very willing to turn down everything that doesn't meet his every demand: "Close enough" is insufficient. It's a promising combination :cool2:

@katbran Where in Australia are you? I was in Brisbane and Canberra for a few years ::) I'm in the US now. Haven't been back to Australia or NZ in so many years now :(sad
Normally i am so envious of people who live in the states

I look forward to that feeling comming back

please take care yssie
and everyone else too
 

AV_

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 5, 2018
Messages
3,841
I want to see these photos.
To start with some that happen to already be left in my Google Drive since taking them (not yeasterday) - www The stuff clearly needs explaining: this is a ~one mm pinctada radiata shot from about 130X to 230KX with an electron microscope (magnification factor in the footnote of each picture). It was easier to use these smallest pearls (stable using a simple holder) and they seemed to be as complicated as anything, with every type of internal structure known from CT scans done for origin ID... I wanted to replicate parts of the last study of natural pearls (1912), then, slightly more usefully, see this close what happens in some types of natural pearls that were discussed for ID reasons a couple of years ago (found equivalent structure in natural pearls like this, shell & shell repairs; this is one such example - the point of interest was the change of structure between the rounded core & the layer over it that cracked away, one of quite a few types of discontinuities).

Most of my pearl pictures are more or less like these. Many shots taken in visible light were meant to inventory samples, & just a few for fun.

TBC
 
Last edited:

arkieb1

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 11, 2012
Messages
9,576
I like Akoya pearls especially the blues, the whites are pretty but if you want that true rainbow soap bubble effect - pinks, blues and the rainbow you see in a bubble you can't beat good old Aussie Paspaley & Kailis pearls. IMHO maybe what you seek are some white South Seas with that rare rainbow sheen.

Mine are gloriously off round, lots of fish bites and blemishes but you cannot beat the lustre and rainbow sheen of colour - these are my small South Seas photos taken in three different lighting situations;
IMG_0681.PNG IMG_0683.PNG IMG_0682.PNG
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
20,685
I like Akoya pearls especially the blues, the whites are pretty but if you want that true rainbow soap bubble effect - pinks, blues and the rainbow you see in a bubble you can't beat good old Aussie Paspaley & Kailis pearls. IMHO maybe what you seek are some white South Seas with that rare rainbow sheen.

Mine are gloriously off round, lots of fish bites and blemishes but you cannot beat the lustre and rainbow sheen of colour - these are my small South Seas photos taken in three different lighting situations;
IMG_0681.PNG IMG_0683.PNG IMG_0682.PNG
I am actually on the hunt for some white South Seas! I want larger studs. I’m curious about this rainbow sheen - most of the WSSs I’ve seen are unapologetically stark white... Your description and photos are luscious! How “small” are these pearls? They look quite large (but I know SSs don’t get below 8mm-ish so small is relative!)
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
20,685
To start with some that happen to already be left in my Google Drive since taking them (not yeasterday) - www The stuff clearly needs explaining: this is a ~one mm pinctada radiata shot from about 130X to 230KX with an electron microscope (magnification factor in the footnote of each picture). It was easier to use these smallest pearls (stable using a simple holder) and they seemed to be as complicated as anything, with every type of internal structure known from CT scans done for origin ID... I wanted to replicate parts of the last study of natural pearls (1912), then, slightly more usefully, see this close what happens in some types of natural pearls that were discussed for ID reasons a couple of years ago (found equivalent structure in natural pearls like this, shell & shell repairs; this is one such example - the point of interest was the change of structure between the rounded core & the layer over it that cracked away, one of quite a few types of discontinuities).

Most of my pearl pictures are more or less like these. Many shots taken in visible light were meant to inventory samples, & just a few for fun.

TBC
Oh hello. Google drive with photos.
I need my computer and a few hours.
I’ll be back!
 
  • Like
Reactions: AV_

katbran

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 4, 2011
Messages
735
Arkie - Beautiful pearls, I certainly will choose lustre over perfection anytime. Whats a few fish bites among pearl lovers !? And I totally agree with your opinion on WSS .

Gemmy WSS with true depth are very difficult to find. Most of the large producers in Australia keep them for their own designs. It's the sort of thing you would probably have to find at retail in Paspaley. The last time I was in their office buying for clients there were none to be had other than the ones they had in the showroom. That said, true Australian pearls from the Paspaley farms have no treatment, they just wash them off. ( so they told me ) They also have contracts with very high end Jewelers and Stores such as Tiffany for certain shapes and everything good that they don't keep to use in their designs goes to these people exclusively.

So, lovely WSS that have a high lustre and are very clean are most likely the best that you will find. That said, the Pink/Whites are always a possibility - just the super soap bubble are very rare.

Keep in mind that many of the WSS producers from other countries process their pearls by polishing heavily.

Also , most people who sell "Australian WSS " are selling Indonesian SS but know that by tacking Australian on the pearls gives them a certain 'cache' . Also watch for people who sell 'Paspaley' pearls as Paspaley is a trade name and can only be used by Paspaley on the pearls that they sell. (obviously not talking about pre loved items with certificates)
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
20,685
To start with some that happen to already be left in my Google Drive since taking them (not yeasterday) - www The stuff clearly needs explaining: this is a ~one mm pinctada radiata shot from about 130X to 230KX with an electron microscope (magnification factor in the footnote of each picture). It was easier to use these smallest pearls (stable using a simple holder) and they seemed to be as complicated as anything, with every type of internal structure known from CT scans done for origin ID... I wanted to replicate parts of the last study of natural pearls (1912), then, slightly more usefully, see this close what happens in some types of natural pearls that were discussed for ID reasons a couple of years ago (found equivalent structure in natural pearls like this, shell & shell repairs; this is one such example - the point of interest was the change of structure between the rounded core & the layer over it that cracked away, one of quite a few types of discontinuities).

Most of my pearl pictures are more or less like these. Many shots taken in visible light were meant to inventory samples, & just a few for fun.

TBC
Pinctada radiata - "eastern Mediterranean, Red Sea, Persian Gulf and the Indian Ocean"
From this site - http://www.australiansouthseapearls.com/glossary

I've not seen this 1912 study. I'll see if it's freely viewable, but I suspect even if I find it it'll be over my head. I am, however, fascinated by this observation: one of quite a few types of discontinuities. There is a thread in the MMD forum here on PS - and I've had some offline conversations with some of the participants as well - explicating characteristic structural phenomena that CVD diamonds exhibit that differentiate them from naturally-formed material (or HPHT material). "It's all diamond", yes, if we micro down to ionic and covalent bonding, but in environmental, methodological, and chronological practice - there are differences. No matter how much one might desire to obfuscate that fact. My understanding from your statement is that the same is true of nucleated and natural pearls - there are characteristic disparities that one might look very, very closely for.

I remember when natural FW pearls didn't cost a fortune. Shoulda woulda coulda. Thank you for sharing these photos and explanation! What are some of the other discontinuities?
 
  • Like
Reactions: AV_

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
20,685
@arkieb1 @katbran @AnyoneElse... my Google journey for photos of this white South Sea rainbow irridescence was unsuccessful. Don't suppose you've got pictures that show this really clearly/exaggeratedly?
 

arkieb1

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 11, 2012
Messages
9,576
@arkieb1 @katbran @AnyoneElse... my Google journey for photos of this white South Sea rainbow irridescence was unsuccessful. Don't suppose you've got pictures that show this really clearly/exaggeratedly?
The strand I own came from a shop in Western Australia a number of years ago now, that also had pink Argyles that were tender diamonds only. What I take from that because as with these pearls getting some of the best Argyles is also really difficult, is that they had a premium or high end range of products in that shop....

I'm not sure how they ended up with a strand of imperfect rainbow sheen Paspaley pearls in their shop for sale but I've only seen them for sale in places like Paspaley and Kailis Pearls since, so @katbran is totally correct when she says they are difficult but not completely impossible to find, but they command an absolute premium price wise these days...

I've seen strands this colour with much larger pearls than mine in the tens of thousands in Paspaley and some in the hundreds of thousands, but the smaller ones and imperfect ones from the same farm must exist. They also sell single pearl pendants, earrings and so on and a small number of them have the same effect. I will have to dig out the box because I'm not sure of the exact size (from memory it has it written on a card/documents inside the box) but I know mine are some of the smallest Aussie South Seas size wise that there is.

This is a link to Paspaley in a few of their product videos and photos there are a small amount of strands and pearls where you can see the rainbow effect, there is one video showing clasps for sale, look at or scroll through until you see the strand that has the blackened gold diamond clasp and the yellow gold and diamond clasp in the same strand, I'm pretty sure that's a professional photo of what @katbran and I am describing, we can see the rainbow sheen in that particular strand, and it is similar to my pearls.


The pearl in these earrings against the white background on the right hand side (not any of the ones on the person) when you scroll through;


Look for the pearls that clearly have a blue and when you look closely also at the same time a pink sheen to them that is what I consider to be what you are describing as the "soap bubble" effect in pearls or pinks and blues and a rainbow sheen as you move them around.
 
Last edited:

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
20,685
1586991824039.png

@arkieb1 Ohhhh. Thank you! I think I see. This, yes?

And now that I know what I'm looking for I can see it in your photo as well! I thought the adjacent pink and blue were reflections of something environmental.

How visible is this effect IRL? Is it something you see in favourable lighting environments (cloudy days, etc.) or is it really only visible in the lightbox?

Rarity. I am once again wistful of buyers two decades ago. I think we're all doomed to that particular strain of rue :bigsmile:
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
20,685
1586992287091.png

From your other suggestion - I see the difference here. I'm confident I wouldn't have thought anything of it had you not pointed it out, though, I'd have just assumed "reflection".

Well. Now I want to see some of these pearls IRL. Of course.
 

arkieb1

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 11, 2012
Messages
9,576
No it's not a reflection - the photos I have posted above of my pearls were taken inside my house during the day NOT in a light box without any lights on, the IKEA cat pillow photo was inside next to a window in the afternoon the other two photos against pure black was inside not near a window with no lights on but still with decent afternoon light streaming into where I was taking those photos.

In really really low lighting inside my house when its going on dark, you don't see it as much but the rest of the time that blue sheen and as you move pink sheen is apparent. Perhaps @katbran would like to add more comments.

The dark black/grey silhouette in the pearls in every photo, that's my reflection you can see the blue/pink sheen however in every photo independent of that, and the three pics above were taken in three different areas inside my house where the lighting was different in each area.
 
Last edited:

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
20,685
No it's not a reflection - the photos I have posted above of my pearls were taken inside my house during the day NOT in a light box without any lights on, the IKEA cat pillow photo was inside next to a window in the afternoon the other two photos against pure black was inside not near a window with no lights on but still with decent afternoon light streaming into where I was taking those photos.

In really really low lighting inside my house when its going on dark, you don't see it as much but the rest of the time that blue sheen and as you move pink sheen is apparent. Perhaps @katbran would like to add more comments.

The dark black/grey silhouette in the pearls in every photo, that's my reflection you can see the blue/pink sheen however in every photo independent of that, and the three pics above were taken in three different areas inside my house where the lighting was different in each area.
I would love to see this effect IRL one day. It sounds... Sultry.
I don't have any WSSs. Yet.

A question: What about the oyster/shell/bead/(?) causes some pearls to have this multicoloured sheen? It's not something they can control, I'm assuming, or it wouldn't be so rare. I can't find anything on Google - I'm obviously searching the wrong terms.

Second question: Australian SSs don't go through maeshori, etc., polishing? Or is that brand-specific (ex. Paspaley's inventory doesn't)?

@arkieb1 @katbran @molinePDG
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: AV_

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
20,685
@arkieb1 Great, thank you again. I’ll be back after reading :))
 

arkieb1

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 11, 2012
Messages
9,576
I went back through my old photos, here are photos same camera same areas in my house of a white cultivated unstrung strand of pearls I bought decades ago from Halong Bay in Vietnam;


IMG_0765.PNG IMG_0766.PNG

You can see if we compare pearls it's not a trick of the camera or of the lighting even at their worst the Aussie South Seas by comparison have a silver iridescent effect or the full rainbow of blues and pinks by comparison and the pearls from Halong Bay aren't hideous pearls by any means, they just aren't in the same league as the Aussie South Seas;

IMG_0763.PNG IMG_0760.PNG

I also want to add I guess compared to Akoya and other types of pearls these are not really small pearls. By small I mean I'm used to walking into jewellers in Australia with really really big South Seas these are a normal to small size compared to those....
 
Last edited:

katbran

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 4, 2011
Messages
735
98B4A557-5A2E-44E0-94FA-75978EC0697A.jpeg Well this isn't a great shot but it was a beautiful pearl with a depth that reminded me of the chatoyancy of Melo Melo . Each layer must have been just perfect.
This is from Paspaley's Sydney show room. You could see the faint colours ... but this is through a showroom glass case and as it was at the back it was hard to get a good shot. I was taking so many photos of everything lol
 

arkieb1

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 11, 2012
Messages
9,576
I have never managed to capture the rainbow effect in the drop South Sea I own, it comes with a cool story as well. A number of years ago a fit youngish lady/girl wanted to backpack around Australia and have an adventure. She ended up working at a Pearl farm in Broome. She liked the water and the hot climate, she was good at her job and hard working, they ended up liking her so much they offered her a full time job there. She stayed a couple of years and was trained to harvest pearls.

After a couple of years she decided it was time to move on, but when she left there at the end of harvesting season, one of the head guys offered her the pick of the harvest of drop pearls as a departing gift, they liked her, and appreciated her that much. She told me she had no idea which pearl to pick, so she asked one of the guys, one of the top pearl guys that she worked for to pick her out "a nice pearl" so he selected one of the best pearls of the harvest to his eyes (that is what he told her) and then she paid him to string it on a leather cord for her as was fashionable (Kailis sold this exact same pendant around the early 2000s) in their shops at the time.

When I met her she had travelled overseas, a few years had passed since her pearl adventure, she was living in Sydney, she was strapped for cash, loved this pearl and it's meaning, but had bills to pay and saw no other option but to sell it, she wanted it to go to someone that would appreciate it, she asked me a lot of questions but finally, she sold it to me. She had worked for the people that owned Kailis Pearls.

It too has a silvery blue iridescent effect and flashes blues and pinks, it's more muted and subtle than the strand I have and I've never been able to capture it accurately in a photo but I think technically it would be a rainbow South Sea as well. Below are photos taken outside and the only photos I took of it back on the same Iphone. It is a much much nicer pearl in person than any photos I have taken of it. I will have to dig it out and see if I can take new ones with my new Iphone, but in the meantime;

IMG_0767.PNG IMG_0768.PNG
 
Last edited:

AV_

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 5, 2018
Messages
3,841
Pinctada radiata - "eastern Mediterranean, Red Sea, Persian Gulf and the Indian Ocean"
From this site - http://www.australiansouthseapearls.com/glossary
Mine are all Bahraini.

I've not seen this 1912 study. I'll see if it's freely viewable, but I suspect even if I find it it'll be over my head.
It could be tedious - www . I've read & taken apart this thing, because a couple of claims caught my eye as right avant la lettre, the author was did field biology on pearl banks as a British public servant all his life, he had done his PhD at the time genetics was starting to not be philosophy, while his lab was discovering the chromosome & henceforth took the right side of history for granted; he is a terrifyingly good microscopist (so, I had to read.) I have not kept bookmarks for the text, but there is a stack of quotes somewhere [nts. - to dig up & link] tracking a colourful debate between the two pearl heads of the day - HLJameson & his nemesis competing for HM grants of appointment... they were slightly more polite than running for office is.


I am, however, fascinated by this observation: one of quite a few types of discontinuities. There is a thread in the MMD forum here on PS - and I've had some offline conversations with some of the participants as well - explicating characteristic structural phenomena that CVD diamonds exhibit that differentiate them from naturally-formed material (or HPHT material). "It's all diamond", yes, if we micro down to ionic and covalent bonding, but in environmental, methodological, and chronological practice - there are differences. No matter how much one might desire to obfuscate that fact.
I sort of remember that the fndamental identifyier of MMD are indeed types of crystal lattice defects, but I have not looked into this. I expect that in any crystal, such details are a signature of its growth conditions - quite some art in which a few fields of science are sunk.


My understanding from your statement is that the same is true of nucleated and natural pearls - there are characteristic disparities that one might look very, very closely for.
The labs who issue natural pearl reports are already good at telling tales of such things - at least in private; their publications seemed conservative [I have not kept up with the last twenty months or so], not least because the interesting features - are not inferred from crystal growth [it does play in], but from the ways & means of biology accomodating it; I had to keep both in mind.


I remember when natural FW pearls didn't cost a fortune. Shoulda woulda coulda.
I never knew much about them & keep wondering how/where/when since freshwater bivalve seem that much better at making pearls.

The most serious interest in our small group were pearls with flame patterns - not only conch, but white ones too, with particularly spectacular flame.


What are some of the other discontinuities?
Maybe this could be a book; will dig more shots.


TBC
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
20,685
Teaser update!!

I got my third akoya strand today...

And I got my "wow" today too...

Photos and thoughts tomorrow!!

:halo: :bigsmile:
 

collier

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
180
Congrats! We're looking forward to seeing them, in many many pictures!
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
20,685
New thread! Stuff on Ten-nyo is difficult to find - hopefully the other thread title makes it easier to search for.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AV_
Be a part of the community It's free, join today!
    Glorious Green Diamond Ring
    Glorious Green Diamond Ring
    Phenomenal 3.01ct Cushion Brilliant Cut Engagement Ring
    Phenomenal 3.01ct Cushion Brilliant Cut Engagement Ring
    Love Conquers All- Quarantined and Engaged
    Love Conquers All- Quarantined and Engaged

Need Something Special?

Get a quote from multiple trusted and vetted jewelers.

Holloway Cut Advisor



Diamond Eye Candy

Click to view full-size image.
Top