Airline regrets kicking off an obese man AFTER learning he''s famous

[kenny]

Let's play, "Fun with Hypotheticals".

Say a departing full plane can't leave the gate because it is 500 pounds over the limit.

There are six passengers in question.
They have equal status because they all six bought their tickets at the same time, and boarded last, or whatever criteria you care to use.
They are deemed to be equal in status.

One of the six admits to weighing 600 pounds and the other clearly weigh less than five 100 each.

Should they ask the one large person to leave or the five small ones?

In this case we weigh (sorry for pun) the equality of each person against how many people must be angered.
If the airline decided to evict the heavy person, to opt to anger one instead of five, is this discrimination justified?

I'm not just stirring a pot, these are the real predicaments airlines are being put in.

 

[Tuckins1]

I just listened to an interview with him. He totally says that he is in fact "fat". He tried to buy two seats because he said he needs the space. The flight was totally booked and only had the one seat. He wasn''t necessarily pissed that he was asked to get off, but they wouldn''t admit that it was because of his physical size. They kept dancing around saying things like "There is an allotted amount of space for each passenger, and you take up more than your allotted space." I don''t think it''s ok to kick people off, but I have definitely seen people that couldn''t even fit in the seat belt! That IS as safety liability for the company, so I can understand things from their perspective... But there Kevin Smith isn''t THAT big!

 

[Karl_K]

Date: 2/15/2010 4:11:44 PM
Author: elrohwen


Oh, and by my cargo comment, I just meant that they can't dump 300lbs of US mail on to the tarmac, so they kick off a few people. That doesn't mean those people were fat, necessarily, just that they underestimated the cargo vs passenger weights.

That is what they would do.
But it does not come up.
The only time it would be a factor is if the plane had made an emergency landing on a short runway secondary airport due to a problem or weather and had to take off at restricted weight.
With today's planes and rules volume is the issue not weight even for cargo most of the time.
The will not fly lead or even large volumes of gold on airline flights.

 

[elrohwen]

Date: 2/15/2010 4:29:38 PM
Author: kenny
Let's play, 'Fun with Hypotheticals'.

Say a departing full plane can't leave the gate because it is 500 pounds over the limit.

There are six passengers in question.
They have equal status because they all six bought their tickets at the same time, or whatever criteria you care to use.

One of the six weighs 505 pounds and the other five weigh 100 each.

Should they ask the one large person to leave or the five small ones?

In this case we weigh (sorry for pun) the equality of each human against how many humans must be angered.
If the airline decided to evict the heavy person, to opt to anger one instead of five, is this discrimination justified?

In that case, you ask who would be willing to board the next flight for a voucher. If they need 500lbs, assume the average person is 150lbs, and just ask 4 people to come forward. This could be extended to anyone on the plane, not the last 6 people. I've been in this situation too where they let people decide to get off, though it's usually before the plane boards. I'm sure they could apply it in your hypothetical situation too.

 

[elrohwen]

Date: 2/15/2010 4:31:46 PM
Author: Karl_K

Date: 2/15/2010 4:11:44 PM
Author: elrohwen


Oh, and by my cargo comment, I just meant that they can't dump 300lbs of US mail on to the tarmac, so they kick off a few people. That doesn't mean those people were fat, necessarily, just that they underestimated the cargo vs passenger weights.

That is what they would do.
But it does not come up.
The only time it would be a factor is if the plane had made an emergency landing on a short runway secondary airport due to a problem or weather and had to take off at restricted weight.
With today's planes and rules volume is the issue not weight even for cargo most of the time.
The will not fly lead or even large volumes of gold on airline flights.

I've been on flights where they have asked people to leave because the plane was overweight.

eta: These weren't jet flights, they were prop planes. I'm not sure if that makes a difference.

 

[Karl_K]

Date: 2/15/2010 4:35:45 PM
Author: elrohwen


I've been on flights where they have asked people to leave because the plane was overweight.


eta: These weren't jet flights, they were prop planes. I'm not sure if that makes a difference.

that makes a huge difference, prop planes don't have the reserves for weight like jets

 

[elrohwen]

Date: 2/15/2010 4:51:24 PM
Author: Karl_K

Date: 2/15/2010 4:35:45 PM
Author: elrohwen


I''ve been on flights where they have asked people to leave because the plane was overweight.


eta: These weren''t jet flights, they were prop planes. I''m not sure if that makes a difference.

that makes a huge difference, prop planes don''t have the reserves for weight like jets

Smith''s flight may have been a prop - it was only Oakland to Burbank and probably a small flight.

Though if it''s true that the pilot told him he was too large for the seat, when he could put the arms down, then that''s not ok, in my opinion.

 

[IloveAsschers13]

Date: 2/15/2010 4:30:32 PM
Author: Tuckins1
I just listened to an interview with him. He totally says that he is in fact ''fat''. He tried to buy two seats because he said he needs the space. The flight was totally booked and only had the one seat. He wasn''t necessarily pissed that he was asked to get off, but they wouldn''t admit that it was because of his physical size. They kept dancing around saying things like ''There is an allotted amount of space for each passenger, and you take up more than your allotted space.'' I don''t think it''s ok to kick people off, but I have definitely seen people that couldn''t even fit in the seat belt! That IS as safety liability for the company, so I can understand things from their perspective... But there Kevin Smith isn''t THAT big!

But he is very overweight... I mean honestly, if you weren''t there and you haven''t met him in person, aren''t we all just listening to people''s opinions?? He said he could fit, but who knows??

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 2/15/2010 2:07:10 PM
Author: dragonfly411

Date: 2/15/2010 1:22:24 PM

Author: thing2of2

Date: 2/15/2010 1:19:05 PM

Author: dragonfly411

I don''t agree with kicking ANYONE off.... I do agree with the idea of offering a reduced rate for two seats if they are needed for comfort for a larger person. In some cases obesity cannot be helped, whether due to disease or genetics. My grandfather is obese...not by choice... and not by anything that is his own fault. He has been unable to remove the weight since having surgery through his abdominal wall. Does that mean he should be kicked off a plane?

If your grandfather is infringing on my seat and there aren''t any extra seats then yes, I do think he should be kicked off a plane.

Thing 2 - what if it were your grandfather... and he had a problem that he could not control.. that even doctor''s have said there isn''t much to be done without more surgeries... and you got on a plane and someone said ''you need to make that man leave, he''s infringing on my space''. Could you imagine the embarrassment? Would you as his granddaughter not be outraged? I''m sorry but your post is extremely harsh and rude. He has no control over the issue... he''s paying just like everyone else.... he paid for his seat... why should he be kicked off because he''s got a situation out of his control?

How is my post harsh or rude? I stated my opinion-just because it''s not the one you agree with doesn''t mean it''s rude.

If my hypothetical obese grandfather paid for ONE seat and he was taking up more than one seat, and there wasn''t an extra seat available for him to spill over into, why shouldn''t he be asked to leave? I''m sure it''s embarrassing for everyone involved, but why should another passenger have to be uncomfortable because the person next to them can''t fit into one seat?

And why do the circumstances of the obesity even matter? Would it somehow be different if your grandfather was obese because he ate an entire box of Twinkies every day? If you take up more than one seat, you should have to pay for more than one seat. Seems simple enough to me.

It would be great if airlines offered larger seats, but as it stands now, they don''t. Therefore, the only fair solution is for obese customers to buy two seats.

 

[iheartscience]

I''m surprised no one''s posted this yet. This picture is real and was apparently taken by an American Airlines flight attendant. According to the story, before they took off, the flight attendants gave him an entire row to himself so that he wouldn''t infringe on the passengers beside him or the aisle.

Obviously this man is more obese than most people (and just a big guy in general), but if there wasn''t an entire row available for him, I think he absolutely should have been asked to leave the flight. Here''s the link to the story in the NY Post: link

 

[Arkteia]

Date: 2/15/2010 2:02:49 PM
Author: princesss

Date: 2/15/2010 1:59:59 PM

Author: akmiss

I am not sure if seat have gotten smaller but the leg room sure has! I believe an extra row of seats was added making every row narrower. Flying coach is uncomfortable for just about everyone I know obese or not. Last month I was on a 3.5hr flight next to a woman doused in perfume... My four year old son was complaining the whole way about the smell and his headaches. Geez, she didn''t even acknowledge us.

Come on, would you really have acknowledged somebody in this situation? I''m sure she thought she was well within her rights to wear her perfume, and thought you and your kid were rude for saying something. (Not saying either party is right here, just that it''s no fun from either end!)


Flying is a necessary evil in my book. I don''t expect to be comfortable or happy, I just expect to get where I''m going safely.

I think akmiss had full right to ask to change seats. I know a woman who is allergic to some perfume and had a couple of full-blown asthmatic attacks and had to go to a hospital. She never goes to theaters because of this. We do not want someone to have asthmatic attacks on the plane, do we? I am trying not to wear perfume on the plane although I love them. Since this woman works with me, I try to wear perfumes she is not allergic to (she told me which ones are OK). It may be a serious problem for some people.

As to seats. I wonder if there should be at least several narrow seats for kids on each plane. That could give space for people who are obese. I perfectly well understand the air companies policy - many of them are bankrupt - but at the same time, peole who are overweight should not be discriminated against. There are at least 3-4 kids on each plane and maybe 1-2 really obese people, so "adjusting" the width may partially solve the problem.

 

[perry]

For more information - and for the debate going on on the "Airline" Forum (most of these people work for the airlines):

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/4712929/


Note that I also follow and post on Airliners.net; but under a different user name. I doubt that I posted on this thread.

Perry

 

[MonkeyPie]

Date: 2/15/2010 5:46:40 PM
Author: thing2of2
I''m surprised no one''s posted this yet. This picture is real and was apparently taken by an American Airlines flight attendant. According to the story, before they took off, the flight attendants gave him an entire row to himself so that he wouldn''t infringe on the passengers beside him or the aisle.

Obviously this man is more obese than most people (and just a big guy in general), but if there wasn''t an entire row available for him, I think he absolutely should have been asked to leave the flight. Here''s the link to the story in the NY Post: link

I thought this one got debunked as a photoshopped shot or something? Someone did actually post this before, in the last "too fat to fly" thread.

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 2/15/2010 8:22:10 PM
Author: MonkeyPie

Date: 2/15/2010 5:46:40 PM

Author: thing2of2

I''m surprised no one''s posted this yet. This picture is real and was apparently taken by an American Airlines flight attendant. According to the story, before they took off, the flight attendants gave him an entire row to himself so that he wouldn''t infringe on the passengers beside him or the aisle.

Obviously this man is more obese than most people (and just a big guy in general), but if there wasn''t an entire row available for him, I think he absolutely should have been asked to leave the flight. Here''s the link to the story in the NY Post: link

I thought this one got debunked as a photoshopped shot or something? Someone did actually post this before, in the last ''too fat to fly'' thread.

I just did a quick search and didn''t find anything in several articles from the major sites (Telegraph, HuffPo, NY Post) about the picture being fake. I know the Huffington Post always updates their stories so if it turned out to be fake I would imagine they would have updated the story to say that. Could be a fake, but even so, I think it illustrates the problem nicely.

I''ve had my seat encroached on by obese people SO many times. Somehow it always happens on the long flights, too. I''m on the thin side so I don''t take up the whole seat and a couple of the people were so large that I had no extra room on my seat and was forced to scrunch my shoulders together so my entire body wouldn''t be pressed against them. (There was nothing I could do about my hips and legs touching them.)

I personally would have LOVED it if they were moved or asked to leave. It would have been awkward, but why should I be forced to scrunch myself into a tiny portion of my seat for a 6 hour flight to save someone else from feeling awkward? I''m sure they would have been more comfortable with an extra seat next to them, too.

And they must know they''re obese and taking over someone else''s seat, so I''m not sure why they''d be surprised or outraged at being asked to move/leave the flight if it was full. I''m assuming the whole entitlement thing that Americans do so well takes over and they think they''re entitled to a seat even if that means someone else will be uncomfortable for the entire flight.

 

[packrat]

My first flight the older couple I sat next to smelled like spoiled milk. They were nice tho. The wife patted my knee and told me "It will be all right honey". They weren''t large tho. Nothing much to add here otherwise..just thought someone might feel sorry for me about the spoiled milk smell.

Anyone?

hehehehe just kidden

 

[luckystar112]

I think it''s dumb. I don''t think anyone has any "right" to anything other than getting to a destination safely. And I don''t think obese people are any more or less annoying than the screaming baby, heavily perfumed woman, kid with his headphone volume on blast, multiple bathroom trip guy, or the "get something out of the overhead every three seconds" guy. And yes, I''ve been squished by many a big person on planes. I guess I just don''t see why they are getting picked on.

 

[MonkeyPie]

I think they need to work on the seat issue, period. My brother is over 6 feet tall, and very broad shouldered. He isn't fat by any means, nowhere near, but he almost ALWAYS invades the seat of the person next to him because he is simply a big man. The difference is he tries to be polite, and he will lean away or only sit next to someone he knows that won't mind it. (If he sits next to me, his shoulders are above my head, so he prefers to sit by me if we can.)

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 2/15/2010 8:56:20 PM
Author: luckystar112
I think it''s dumb. I don''t think anyone has any ''right'' to anything other than getting to a destination safely. And I don''t think obese people are any more or less annoying than the screaming baby, heavily perfumed woman, kid with his headphone volume on blast, multiple bathroom trip guy, or the ''get something out of the overhead every three seconds'' guy. And yes, I''ve been squished by many a big person on planes. I guess I just don''t see why they are getting picked on.

All I think I have the "right" to is the entire seat I paid for. It''s not really about them being obese so much as it as about them encroaching on my physical comfort. Why is their "right" to buy 1 plane ticket more important than my "right" to use the entire seat I paid for? I have long legs but I don''t stretch them out into the person next to me''s leg area. If I have a bunch of snacks I don''t spread them out onto someone else''s tray table.

Babies are going to scream, people are going to listen to their headphones too loud, they''re going to stink (either BO or perfume), but at least those don''t cause me physical discomfort for several hours. I sat next to a man (in first class, actually!) who had terrible BO. Honestly, I preferred that to sitting next to people that encroached on my seat. Same goes for the woman 1 seat over who painted her nails with stinky nail polish for a half hour. Better than being scrunched up for 6 hours!

 

[whitby_2773]

ditto the no perfume thing - but can we extend that to bad breath??

i once took a flight from australia to england, stop over in thailand. i sat between two ENORMOUS tongan gentlemen who were travelling together. they smelt like they had been eating raw garlic all morning before boarding. i was 22 and not overweight. they talked across me the entire flight; the smell was DISGUSTING. i asked them if they''d like to sit next to each other to converse more comfortable. of course they declined because...you guessed it...they needed to be able to infringe on MY seat space to fit in their designated spots. they simply couldn''t have fitted next to each other.

and the bad news is....

most airlines are planning on inserting another row in their layout. i read the list of who this entails about 2 months ago and was appalled that it included American Airlines, who are already completely squished for room. i''m 5''5" and *i''m* short on leg room when i fly! i cant imagine being 6''+ and traveling economy!

does it occur to anyone that, not only is this a push to get as many bums on seats as possible, but also a concerted effort to leave people of certain sizes no option other than to fly business class?

i hate flying. i''m uncomfortable, i''m bored and i''m tense (ever since being caught in an electrical storm and being forced to land short of the runway.) AND i''m a platinum frequent flyer, meaning i fly all the time.

prescription drugs, man. it''s the only answer.

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 2/15/2010 9:04:35 PM
Author: thing2of2

Date: 2/15/2010 8:56:20 PM
Author: luckystar112
I think it''s dumb. I don''t think anyone has any ''right'' to anything other than getting to a destination safely. And I don''t think obese people are any more or less annoying than the screaming baby, heavily perfumed woman, kid with his headphone volume on blast, multiple bathroom trip guy, or the ''get something out of the overhead every three seconds'' guy. And yes, I''ve been squished by many a big person on planes. I guess I just don''t see why they are getting picked on.

All I think I have the ''right'' to is the entire seat I paid for. It''s not really about them being obese so much as it as about them encroaching on my physical comfort. Why is their ''right'' to buy 1 plane ticket more important than my ''right'' to use the entire seat I paid for? I have long legs but I don''t stretch them out into the person next to me''s leg area. If I have a bunch of snacks I don''t spread them out onto someone else''s tray table.

Babies are going to scream, people are going to listen to their headphones too loud, they''re going to stink (either BO or perfume), but at least those don''t cause me physical discomfort for several hours. I sat next to a man (in first class, actually!) who had terrible BO. Honestly, I preferred that to sitting next to people that encroached on my seat. Same goes for the woman 1 seat over who painted her nails with stinky nail polish for a half hour. Better than being scrunched up for 6 hours!

I was just sharing my opinion. You don''t like touching rolls, I don''t mind it.

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 2/15/2010 9:37:50 PM
Author: luckystar112

Date: 2/15/2010 9:04:35 PM

Author: thing2of2

Date: 2/15/2010 8:56:20 PM

Author: luckystar112

I think it''s dumb. I don''t think anyone has any ''right'' to anything other than getting to a destination safely. And I don''t think obese people are any more or less annoying than the screaming baby, heavily perfumed woman, kid with his headphone volume on blast, multiple bathroom trip guy, or the ''get something out of the overhead every three seconds'' guy. And yes, I''ve been squished by many a big person on planes. I guess I just don''t see why they are getting picked on.

All I think I have the ''right'' to is the entire seat I paid for. It''s not really about them being obese so much as it as about them encroaching on my physical comfort. Why is their ''right'' to buy 1 plane ticket more important than my ''right'' to use the entire seat I paid for? I have long legs but I don''t stretch them out into the person next to me''s leg area. If I have a bunch of snacks I don''t spread them out onto someone else''s tray table.

Babies are going to scream, people are going to listen to their headphones too loud, they''re going to stink (either BO or perfume), but at least those don''t cause me physical discomfort for several hours. I sat next to a man (in first class, actually!) who had terrible BO. Honestly, I preferred that to sitting next to people that encroached on my seat. Same goes for the woman 1 seat over who painted her nails with stinky nail polish for a half hour. Better than being scrunched up for 6 hours!

I was just sharing my opinion. You don''t like touching rolls, I don''t mind it.

HA! Roll-loving pervert.

 

[that_someone_special]

I find this whole story, and most of the comments in here, really sad..

And, I looooove Kevin Smith btw!

 

[yssie]

Date: 2/15/2010 2:42:06 PM
Author: onvacation

Date: 2/15/2010 2:07:10 PM
Author: dragonfly411

Date: 2/15/2010 1:22:24 PM

Author: thing2of2

Date: 2/15/2010 1:19:05 PM


Author: dragonfly411


I don't agree with kicking ANYONE off.... I do agree with the idea of offering a reduced rate for two seats if they are needed for comfort for a larger person. In some cases obesity cannot be helped, whether due to disease or genetics. My grandfather is obese...not by choice... and not by anything that is his own fault. He has been unable to remove the weight since having surgery through his abdominal wall. Does that mean he should be kicked off a plane?

If your grandfather is infringing on my seat and there aren't any extra seats then yes, I do think he should be kicked off a plane.

Thing 2 - what if it were your grandfather... and he had a problem that he could not control.. that even doctor's have said there isn't much to be done without more surgeries... and you got on a plane and someone said 'you need to make that man leave, he's infringing on my space'. Could you imagine the embarrassment? Would you as his granddaughter not be outraged? I'm sorry but your post is extremely harsh and rude. He has no control over the issue... he's paying just like everyone else.... he paid for his seat... why should he be kicked off because he's got a situation out of his control?

dragonfly, I see how Thing's post could be incisive, but I have to agree with her in general. For me it would depend on how large he is, and to a degree I feel bad for people next to me who are obviously uncomfortable in their seats. But Thing included that she was talking about the hypothetical situation of your grandfather being on the really large side to the point that he was spilling out of his seat into hers (excuse me for the not-so-delicate expression, I can't think of putting it any other way). Pregnant ladies can't help but be pregnant, and I'm sure people who were sick with H1N1 would not have voluntarily been infected. Even though they have no control over their circumstances, they are still denied passage. Your grandfather does not have to be kicked off if he could pay for a seat that fit his built. In any case, I'm sorry to hear about your grandfather's condition. It must be rather frustrating for him to not be able to do much about it.

From how I see it, airline policies should depend on a principle that the airline sticks to. Do you charge by some combo of weight & volume, or do you charge a flat fare for each passenger? In either case, I think there should be different sized seats at different price points. More options than the business class they have now. I don't know how much sense it made for the company financially, but United Airline gets major kudos from me for their Economy Plus section. I do know that they got much more business from me and my relatives because they showed they realize those few inches can really make a flight more comfortable. Sure, business and first classes are nice, but I really don't need all that much room. I'd rather pay less and get what I need.

ETA: I read the article, and while I think it's not right for them to throw people who are already seated off the plane without advance notice, SW's policy of refunding the second seat fare is actually quite reasonable.

I'll be un-pc and just say what I'm thinking.

How about they just put a sample seat where you go through security? Like the sample overhead-bin compartment - only you actually have to sit in it. If you fit, good. If you don't, pay up!

Having had the misfortune of being quite thoroughly sandwiched on an 8hr nonstop flight (I was the middle..

) I won't raise the armrests either, I don't want to cuddle with a stranger!

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 2/16/2010 7:47:48 AM
Author: swedish bean
I find this whole story, and most of the comments in here, really sad..

And, I looooove Kevin Smith btw!

What do you find sad?

 

[iheartscience]

Yssie-that would actually be a good way to prevent people being asked to leave in front of everyone. They''d still have to be asked to sit in the test seat but that''s probably a lot less embarrassing than being asked to leave once you''re on the plane.

 

[tlh]

Date: 2/16/2010 8:30:01 AM
Author: thing2of2
Yssie-that would actually be a good way to prevent people being asked to leave in front of everyone. They''d still have to be asked to sit in the test seat but that''s probably a lot less embarrassing than being asked to leave once you''re on the plane.

Actually that is a great idea! I think it could save a lot of embarrassment too... without having to look at people DL weights that may not have been updated for 30 years. I''m serious. My DL doesn''t expire until 40 years after I got it. 4-0 years.

 

[LamborghiniGirl]

I am torn on this. I have seen how hurtful it can be for an overweight person to be glared at, comments made at, or forced to leave the plane, and it is really awful! I think there needs to be a certain number of bigger seats available on a plane that cost more. Yes, it sucks to pay more, but if you weigh as much as two people, you should pay double...

On the other hand, when I pay $600 to fly 5 hours, I think I have a right to much more than getting to my destination safely. I have a right to physical comfort. This isn't like steerage... I have a right to a reading light, to air conditioning overhead, assistance when I need it, and the entire seat I am sitting in. I shouldn't feel squished or uncomfortable because someone else is ingoring the fact they take up more than one seat. I mean, even if both armrests go down, someone who is bulging onto my seat clearly can't fit it one seat. And that just isn't considerate to me.

There needs to be a solution to this so smaller people aren't squished and have to share their seat, as well as a solution where overweight people aren't insulted, embarassed, and treated improperly.

And like others said-- the airlines have enough issues as it is, they need to fix this one ASAP!

 

[dragonfly411]

Thing2 - I agree that those that "spill over" as you put it should have to buy two seats... again I've stated that. What's rude to me is that you are stating that if YOUR physical comfort is infringed upon then they should kick someone off. So... if your elbow on your elbow rest is bugging the crap out of me because I can't rest my arm... do I get to kick you off? What about the fact that they might be physically uncomfortable in that too small seat.... and maybe didn't have a choice but to buy one ticket (finanically... or because there weren't enough seats left and they have a deadline). Should you get kicked off so they can have two seats? My problem is that your opinion is very one sided. If I'm physically uncomfortable in a middle row seat, and some guy has the window seat, should he be kicked off so I won't throw up? What about if you decide to recline your chair... and take up all of my space... is it then grounds to ask you to be removed from the plane??


ETA - what if you were on a subway or train going long distance... and there were people who had to sit close to you because of capacity... would you then be sitting there asking them to remove people from the train? I'm asking this one as a general question, because I feel like it would be a similar scenario... most trains/trams don't really put a huge limit on proximity of people to one another.

 

[monarch64]

This is sort of off-topic, but the whole argument makes me think this:

Airplanes, like elevators, escalators, roller coasters, automobiles, etc. were designed with a certain size passenger or weight capacity in mind. Nobody gets upset or yells "discrimination" about the "You must be this tall" signs at amusement parks...the rule is in place for safety reasons.

Has anyone yet brought up that a passenger of immense size on an airplane not only infringes upon the space of others (if only paying for one seat), but what happens in the event of a plane crash/emergency landing? Hmm. Just a point to ponder.

 

[dragonfly411]

COMPLETELY OT

Monarch... that picture of your little girl is absolutely adorable.