Airline regrets kicking off an obese man AFTER learning he''s famous

[Lauren8211]

Date: 2/15/2010 2:35:41 PM
Author: dragonfly411
Elledizzy - a very good point, though I''m not sure how that would solve things. But I would think that over a certain weight range, you end up taking measurements into consideration as well. My broad shouldered tall boyfriend is 230lbs.... but is not considered obese... I do think he''d be crammed in a regular airline seat though. He doesn''t fly so we''ve never faced the issue... but

Well I''m 5''10" and I''m crammed and uncomfortable because I have no leg room. However, I don''t infringe on anyone elses room (except DH''s if he''ll let me)

If you sit in the seat, that''s all that matters. Not fitting is both a comfort issue for others, and a safety issue.

Weight isnt the issue. Its size.

 

[Lauren8211]

Date: 2/15/2010 2:36:03 PM
Author: princesss

Date: 2/15/2010 2:32:56 PM
Author: elledizzy5

Date: 2/15/2010 2:31:29 PM
Author: dragonfly411

Date: 2/15/2010 2:27:23 PM
Author: princesss

Date: 2/15/2010 2:23:31 PM

Author: dragonfly411

Date: 2/15/2010 2:20:27 PM

Author: Clairitek

Personally, when I am sitting next to someone who infringes on my seat (either overweight or someone with very broad shoulders) I find it unpleasant. I enjoy my personal space, whatever small amount I would get on a plane. If someone requires more space than a standard seat, they should purchase two seats. While it stinks to kick someone off of a plane due to their size, I can understand where Southwest is coming from. The fact that SWA is willing to refund the extra seat if the flight doesn''t oversell is pretty great, IMO.

I agree with this 100%, and also really do promote the idea of a reduced rate for buying two seats (perhaps 10% off... or similar). I also think that there should be a weight check for EVERYONE ... everyone should have to answer. That being said, I think it''s horrible for them to remove people from planes.

Okay, but what else are they supposed to do? If the plane is full, and somebody is taking up more room than they paid for and making at least one, and possibly two other passengers uncomfortable, what should they do?

They install the above regulations and they won''t have the problem. In the end that person paid for their seat... they shouldn''t be removed because the plane/airline isn''t taking people''s varying weights or sizes into consideration. That''s their responsibility IMO and they SHOULD have regulations set down that outlines weight requirements, requires people to state their weight, and gives a fixed fee for the required seat room.

I see your point, but what does weight really tell you?

Its the dimensions of the person that matters.

Just imagine, Elle - when making a reservation, you also enter your measurements, BMI, weight, and perfume preferences. Based on that there''s a computer program that maps out who should sit where. I mean, sure, you may not sit next to your hubs, and your infant may be placed back near the bathroom while you''re in row 8, but who cares? Leave the kid with the rest of the crying babies (better to consolodate, donchaknow) and enjoy your flight.

Having to enter my weight on ANYTHING would be enough to keep me off the plane.

 

[Lynnie]

Date: 2/15/2010 2:35:48 PM
Author: MonkeyPie

Date: 2/15/2010 2:32:06 PM
Author: Lynnie
I think we could get rich by creating an airline that caters to plus sized folks? Who wants to finance it?

No offense to anyone, just trying to lighten the mood in here

I have $10, when do we get started?

ASAP... now we just need a few hundred thousand more people with $10, and it''s a go!!

 

[Irishgrrrl]

Date: 2/15/2010 2:37:31 PM
Author: elledizzy5

Date: 2/15/2010 2:35:41 PM
Author: dragonfly411
Elledizzy - a very good point, though I''m not sure how that would solve things. But I would think that over a certain weight range, you end up taking measurements into consideration as well. My broad shouldered tall boyfriend is 230lbs.... but is not considered obese... I do think he''d be crammed in a regular airline seat though. He doesn''t fly so we''ve never faced the issue... but

Well I''m 5''10'' and I''m crammed and uncomfortable because I have no leg room. However, I don''t infringe on anyone elses room (except DH''s if he''ll let me)

If you sit in the seat, that''s all that matters. Not fitting is both a comfort issue for others, and a safety issue.

Weight isnt the issue. Its size.

Agreed. Different people carry their weight differently. I *look* like I weigh less than I actually do (thank God!) and I can comfortably fit into an airline seat with no "overlap" into the seats next to me. So if I were weighed at check-in and charged extra, I would be somewhat irate since my size is not infringing on anyone else''s space.

 

[princesss]

Date: 2/15/2010 2:36:56 PM
Author: dragonfly411
ahhh I see that now, Apologies on my end, read it wrong

No worries. I agree that people shouldn''t wear perfume while traveling, and I make an effort to make sure my clothes are clean and free of pet hair (some people have killer cat allergies, and I''ve got two!). But elle got my point exactly right - while both are distracting and can have consequences for other passengers, only smoking is illegal.

 

[Irishgrrrl]

Date: 2/15/2010 2:38:38 PM
Author: elledizzy5

Date: 2/15/2010 2:36:03 PM
Author: princesss

Just imagine, Elle - when making a reservation, you also enter your measurements, BMI, weight, and perfume preferences. Based on that there''s a computer program that maps out who should sit where. I mean, sure, you may not sit next to your hubs, and your infant may be placed back near the bathroom while you''re in row 8, but who cares? Leave the kid with the rest of the crying babies (better to consolodate, donchaknow) and enjoy your flight.

Having to enter my weight on ANYTHING would be enough to keep me off the plane.

Aaaaaa-MEN!!!

 

[onvacation]

Date: 2/15/2010 2:07:10 PM
Author: dragonfly411

Date: 2/15/2010 1:22:24 PM

Author: thing2of2

Date: 2/15/2010 1:19:05 PM


Author: dragonfly411


I don''t agree with kicking ANYONE off.... I do agree with the idea of offering a reduced rate for two seats if they are needed for comfort for a larger person. In some cases obesity cannot be helped, whether due to disease or genetics. My grandfather is obese...not by choice... and not by anything that is his own fault. He has been unable to remove the weight since having surgery through his abdominal wall. Does that mean he should be kicked off a plane?

If your grandfather is infringing on my seat and there aren''t any extra seats then yes, I do think he should be kicked off a plane.

Thing 2 - what if it were your grandfather... and he had a problem that he could not control.. that even doctor''s have said there isn''t much to be done without more surgeries... and you got on a plane and someone said ''you need to make that man leave, he''s infringing on my space''. Could you imagine the embarrassment? Would you as his granddaughter not be outraged? I''m sorry but your post is extremely harsh and rude. He has no control over the issue... he''s paying just like everyone else.... he paid for his seat... why should he be kicked off because he''s got a situation out of his control?

dragonfly, I see how Thing''s post could be incisive, but I have to agree with her in general. For me it would depend on how large he is, and to a degree I feel bad for people next to me who are obviously uncomfortable in their seats. But Thing included that she was talking about the hypothetical situation of your grandfather being on the really large side to the point that he was spilling out of his seat into hers (excuse me for the not-so-delicate expression, I can''t think of putting it any other way). Pregnant ladies can''t help but be pregnant, and I''m sure people who were sick with H1N1 would not have voluntarily been infected. Even though they have no control over their circumstances, they are still denied passage. Your grandfather does not have to be kicked off if he could pay for a seat that fit his built. In any case, I''m sorry to hear about your grandfather''s condition. It must be rather frustrating for him to not be able to do much about it.

From how I see it, airline policies should depend on a principle that the airline sticks to. Do you charge by some combo of weight & volume, or do you charge a flat fare for each passenger? In either case, I think there should be different sized seats at different price points. More options than the business class they have now. I don''t know how much sense it made for the company financially, but United Airline gets major kudos from me for their Economy Plus section. I do know that they got much more business from me and my relatives because they showed they realize those few inches can really make a flight more comfortable. Sure, business and first classes are nice, but I really don''t need all that much room. I''d rather pay less and get what I need.

ETA: I read the article, and while I think it''s not right for them to throw people who are already seated off the plane without advance notice, SW''s policy of refunding the second seat fare is actually quite reasonable.

 

[Irishgrrrl]

Oh, and on the issue of odor, be it perfume, cigarette smoke or whatever: I was once seated on a flight next to a large man (and yes, he was overlapping a bit into my seat), who absolutely REEKED of BO and alcohol.

If the airlines ever decide to regulate scent as well as size, then I think perfume is the LEAST of the problem!

 

[kenny]

I have flown first class only once.
The seat was so large and flat and the leather was so slippery, that I slid around like in one of those old American cars with the flat bench seats.
I was actually less comfortable than in coach.

I prefer a seat with armrests that touch me and keep me in place.

 

[Lauren8211]

Date: 2/15/2010 2:45:30 PM
Author: Irishgrrrl
Oh, and on the issue of odor, be it perfume, cigarette smoke or whatever: I was once seated on a flight next to a large man (and yes, he was overlapping a bit into my seat), who absolutely REEKED of BO and alcohol.

If the airlines ever decide to regulate scent as well as size, then I think perfume is the LEAST of the problem!

I would have vomited. No joke.

Smelling alcohol on people makes me physically ill.

 

[Irishgrrrl]

Date: 2/15/2010 2:48:04 PM
Author: elledizzy5

Date: 2/15/2010 2:45:30 PM
Author: Irishgrrrl
Oh, and on the issue of odor, be it perfume, cigarette smoke or whatever: I was once seated on a flight next to a large man (and yes, he was overlapping a bit into my seat), who absolutely REEKED of BO and alcohol.

If the airlines ever decide to regulate scent as well as size, then I think perfume is the LEAST of the problem!

I would have vomited. No joke.

Smelling alcohol on people makes me physically ill.

Ohhh, Elle, you don''t know how close I came!!! Fortunately, it was a relatively short flight!

 

[Lauren8211]

Date: 2/15/2010 2:50:14 PM
Author: Irishgrrrl

Date: 2/15/2010 2:48:04 PM
Author: elledizzy5

Date: 2/15/2010 2:45:30 PM
Author: Irishgrrrl
Oh, and on the issue of odor, be it perfume, cigarette smoke or whatever: I was once seated on a flight next to a large man (and yes, he was overlapping a bit into my seat), who absolutely REEKED of BO and alcohol.

If the airlines ever decide to regulate scent as well as size, then I think perfume is the LEAST of the problem!

I would have vomited. No joke.

Smelling alcohol on people makes me physically ill.

Ohhh, Elle, you don''t know how close I came!!! Fortunately, it was a relatively short flight!

On a side note -its nice to see you around!

I felt like you were MIA for a while there!

 

[dragonfly411]

Date: 2/15/2010 2:48:04 PM
Author: elledizzy5

Date: 2/15/2010 2:45:30 PM

Author: Irishgrrrl

Oh, and on the issue of odor, be it perfume, cigarette smoke or whatever: I was once seated on a flight next to a large man (and yes, he was overlapping a bit into my seat), who absolutely REEKED of BO and alcohol.

If the airlines ever decide to regulate scent as well as size, then I think perfume is the LEAST of the problem!

I would have vomited. No joke.


Smelling alcohol on people makes me physically ill.

Agreed

 

[Irishgrrrl]

Date: 2/15/2010 2:51:33 PM
Author: elledizzy5

Date: 2/15/2010 2:50:14 PM
Author: Irishgrrrl

Date: 2/15/2010 2:48:04 PM
Author: elledizzy5

Date: 2/15/2010 2:45:30 PM
Author: Irishgrrrl
Oh, and on the issue of odor, be it perfume, cigarette smoke or whatever: I was once seated on a flight next to a large man (and yes, he was overlapping a bit into my seat), who absolutely REEKED of BO and alcohol.

If the airlines ever decide to regulate scent as well as size, then I think perfume is the LEAST of the problem!

I would have vomited. No joke.

Smelling alcohol on people makes me physically ill.

Ohhh, Elle, you don''t know how close I came!!! Fortunately, it was a relatively short flight!

On a side note -its nice to see you around!

I felt like you were MIA for a while there!

LOL! Nice to see you, too! I was kinda MIA for a while . . . just busy! I''m glad to be back though. I missed y''all!

Oh, and I''ve been meaning to tell you, your current avatar and the one you had before that are ADORABLE! You guys are so cute!

 

[y2kitty]

Overweight person infringing on my space I can usually deal with. But don't you dare take my overhead space!

The real story is Kevin Smith actually meets SW criteria to fly. They just kicked him off arbitrarily. He originally had 2 tickets on a 7:30 flight. He always flies business select and boards first. He got to the airport and saw there was an earlier flight. He flew standby on the earlier flight. After everyone had checked in and boarded he was told that he could take the last seat on the earlier flight. The only open seat was first row, middle seat. After he sat down the flight crew told him the captain wanted him off the flight. The people he was seated between said he was fine and he was able to lower the armrest with no problem. They still kicked him off.

 

[Irishgrrrl]

Date: 2/15/2010 3:21:25 PM
Author: y2kitty
Overweight person infringing on my space I can usually deal with. But don''t you dare take my overhead space!

The real story is Kevin Smith actually meets SW criteria to fly. They just kicked him off arbitrarily. He originally had 2 tickets on a 7:30 flight. He always flies business select and boards first. He got to the airport and saw there was an earlier flight. He flew standby on the earlier flight. After everyone had checked in and boarded he was told that he could take the last seat on the earlier flight. The only open seat was first row, middle seat. After he sat down the flight crew told him the captain wanted him off the flight. The people he was seated between said he was fine and he was able to lower the armrest with no problem. They still kicked him off.

See, now that''s just ridiculous. If the people next to him weren''t bothered, then what''s the problem?!?! And Kevin Smith is definitely overweight, but he''s not THAT big! SW needs to get over themselves.

 

[dragonfly411]

Date: 2/15/2010 3:31:23 PM
Author: Irishgrrrl

Date: 2/15/2010 3:21:25 PM

Author: y2kitty

Overweight person infringing on my space I can usually deal with. But don''t you dare take my overhead space!


The real story is Kevin Smith actually meets SW criteria to fly. They just kicked him off arbitrarily. He originally had 2 tickets on a 7:30 flight. He always flies business select and boards first. He got to the airport and saw there was an earlier flight. He flew standby on the earlier flight. After everyone had checked in and boarded he was told that he could take the last seat on the earlier flight. The only open seat was first row, middle seat. After he sat down the flight crew told him the captain wanted him off the flight. The people he was seated between said he was fine and he was able to lower the armrest with no problem. They still kicked him off.

See, now that''s just ridiculous. If the people next to him weren''t bothered, then what''s the problem?!?! And Kevin Smith is definitely overweight, but he''s not THAT big! SW needs to get over themselves.

agreed

 

[sunnyd]

Date: 2/15/2010 3:21:25 PM
Author: y2kitty
Overweight person infringing on my space I can usually deal with. But don''t you dare take my overhead space!

The real story is Kevin Smith actually meets SW criteria to fly. They just kicked him off arbitrarily. He originally had 2 tickets on a 7:30 flight. He always flies business select and boards first. He got to the airport and saw there was an earlier flight. He flew standby on the earlier flight. After everyone had checked in and boarded he was told that he could take the last seat on the earlier flight. The only open seat was first row, middle seat. After he sat down the flight crew told him the captain wanted him off the flight. The people he was seated between said he was fine and he was able to lower the armrest with no problem. They still kicked him off.

Were they really fine with it or trying not to be rude to the guy, who may have been sitting right next to them...

 

[kenny]

If the captain wanted him off the full flight perhaps it was a safety thing and not about the adjacent passengers.

I believe the captain has some responsibility for taking into consideration the weight vs. fuel balance that is needed for that flight particular flight with its unique altitude, wind and weather conditions.

Perhaps there was an unusually large number of obese passengers or heavy cargo already.

On one hand it would seem like the weight of just one heavy person couldn't possibly matter, but then again maybe they were close to some safety margin.

 

[onvacation]

Date: 2/15/2010 3:21:25 PM
Author: y2kitty
Overweight person infringing on my space I can usually deal with. But don''t you dare take my overhead space!


The real story is Kevin Smith actually meets SW criteria to fly. They just kicked him off arbitrarily. He originally had 2 tickets on a 7:30 flight. He always flies business select and boards first. He got to the airport and saw there was an earlier flight. He flew standby on the earlier flight. After everyone had checked in and boarded he was told that he could take the last seat on the earlier flight. The only open seat was first row, middle seat. After he sat down the flight crew told him the captain wanted him off the flight. The people he was seated between said he was fine and he was able to lower the armrest with no problem. They still kicked him off.

I don''t think I would have been able to speak up that I''m uncomfortable, even if I were. If the guy you might have to sit next to for the next few hours was duking it out with the staff, would you loudly say that you''re not okay with him sitting next to you into his face? I imagine the people next to him were probably shuffling in their seats to save the man some dignity, and the flight attendant or pilot noticed that and made the call.

The fact that he originally had two tickets tells me that this guy KNOWS he''s big.

 

[elrohwen]

Date: 2/15/2010 3:21:25 PM
Author: y2kitty
Overweight person infringing on my space I can usually deal with. But don't you dare take my overhead space!

The real story is Kevin Smith actually meets SW criteria to fly. They just kicked him off arbitrarily. He originally had 2 tickets on a 7:30 flight. He always flies business select and boards first. He got to the airport and saw there was an earlier flight. He flew standby on the earlier flight. After everyone had checked in and boarded he was told that he could take the last seat on the earlier flight. The only open seat was first row, middle seat. After he sat down the flight crew told him the captain wanted him off the flight. The people he was seated between said he was fine and he was able to lower the armrest with no problem. They still kicked him off.

I'm glad someone posted the full story. I read this too and was pretty appalled. Think how embarrassing it would be to be fully seated (armrests down) and be asked to leave the flight. Especially if you were famous and already knew everyone was looking at you - now they're looking at you for being a famous director and for being fat. I think SW handled this horribly.

eta: In the case of a flight being too full/too heavy, the usual practice is to ask the people who got the latest tickets to get off. In his case, since he was standby, it could've been that they asked him to get off simply because they were overweight and he was the last one confirmed for the flight. If this is the case, it had nothing to do with his personal weight. However, if they picked him out because he was heavier than others on the plane, I don't think that's ok. I have been on flights where people were asked to leave because the plane was overweight, but these people were normal sized and were just unlucky enough to be the last confirmed passengers.

 

[y2kitty]

He says he buys two tickets because he doesn''t like talking to people on flights.

 

[y2kitty]

Date: 2/15/2010 3:43:04 PM
Author: onvacation

Date: 2/15/2010 3:21:25 PM

Author: y2kitty

Overweight person infringing on my space I can usually deal with. But don''t you dare take my overhead space!



The real story is Kevin Smith actually meets SW criteria to fly. They just kicked him off arbitrarily. He originally had 2 tickets on a 7:30 flight. He always flies business select and boards first. He got to the airport and saw there was an earlier flight. He flew standby on the earlier flight. After everyone had checked in and boarded he was told that he could take the last seat on the earlier flight. The only open seat was first row, middle seat. After he sat down the flight crew told him the captain wanted him off the flight. The people he was seated between said he was fine and he was able to lower the armrest with no problem. They still kicked him off.

I don''t think I would have been able to speak up that I''m uncomfortable, even if I were. If the guy you might have to sit next to for the next few hours was duking it out with the staff, would you loudly say that you''re not okay with him sitting next to you into his face? I imagine the people next to him were probably shuffling in their seats to save the man some dignity, and the flight attendant or pilot noticed that and made the call.


The fact that he originally had two tickets tells me that this guy KNOWS he''s big.

Could be. Or they could have been uncomfortable but knew who he was and maybe wanted an autograph or something. I used to live near him and have seen him many times and he was never that big, though he could have gained weight. But I think what kenny says could be correct - a lot of luggage or other obese people might have influenced the captain to want him off the plane for safety reasons.

 

[onvacation]

Date: 2/15/2010 3:42:56 PM
Author: kenny
If the captain wanted him off the full flight perhaps it was a safety thing and not about the adjacent passengers.


I believe the captain has some responsibility for taking into consideration the weight vs. fuel balance that is needed for that flight with those wind and weather conditions.


Perhaps there was an unusually large number of obese passengers or heavy cargo already.


On one hand it would seem like the weight of just one heavy person couldn''t possibly matter, but then again maybe they were close to some safety margin.

I read in some of the related articles that there were people who were heavier than him already seated in the back of the plane before him. This could have been a contributing factor to the incident.

 

[onvacation]

Date: 2/15/2010 3:46:40 PM
Author: y2kitty
He says he buys two tickets because he doesn't like talking to people on flights.

Heehee, if that were really the case I'd buy three.... unless he likes seatbelt hooks up his ***!


ETA: elrohwen, he was the last person (standby for an earlier flight than his original) on a full flight with only one seat left. Looks to me like SW just had an unlucky break.

 

[kenny]

If this is the case then that SW captain really did make the right call.
Imagine if they took him and crashed because all the worst case factors worked against the flgith. . . . .

Still, since people ARE getting heavier with no end in sight the airlines must compensate.
Remove some seats.
Allow less cargo.
This is just too humiliating to do to a passenger, famous or not.

 

[elrohwen]

Date: 2/15/2010 3:54:25 PM
Author: kenny
If this is the case then that SW captain really did make the right call.
Imagine if they took him and crashed because all the worst case factors worked against the flgith. . . . .

Still, since people ARE getting heavier with no end in sight the airlines must compensate.
Remove some seats.
Allow less cargo.
This is just too humiliating to do to a passenger, famous or not.

What if they only asked him to get off because he was the last passenger confirmed on the flight and the plane was overweight? I have to wonder if they actually said "You need to leave because you weigh too much" or if the plane in general was just one person over its weight limit. I've absolutely been on planes where they've asked one or more people to get off and take the next flight because the whole thing was overweight.

And generally the plane is overweight because of other cargo (mail, etc) not because people are too fat. But they're committed to the cargo they've got, so sometimes they have to bump a person who may have got on through standby.

 

[kenny]

Date: 2/15/2010 3:56:56 PM
Author: elrohwen
And generally the plane is overweight because of other cargo (mail, etc) not because people are too fat.

An overweight plane is an overweight plane.
No item/person is any more at fault than another.

Now, you could argue that the last person to board has less of a right to stay there than the others.

I think they should make this call before the rejected passenger boards the flight.
It's not to hard to to tell the employee at the gate (via phone) to allow one more person to board only if they appear to be less than X pounds.

 

[elrohwen]

Date: 2/15/2010 4:01:53 PM
Author: kenny

Date: 2/15/2010 3:56:56 PM
Author: elrohwen
And generally the plane is overweight because of other cargo (mail, etc) not because people are too fat.

An overweight plane is an overweight plane.
No item/person is any more at fault than another.

Now, you could argue that the last person to board has less of a right to stay there than the others.

I think they should make this call before the rejected passenger boards the flight.
It's not to hard to to tell the employee at the gate (via phone) to allow one more person to board only if they appear to be less than X pounds.

I don't have any problem with them asking the last confirmed passenger(s) to leave. I would have a problem with them picking out the fattest person at random. I think if you were on standby, or bought your ticket last minute, then yes, you have less right to be on that flight and you can catch the next one. That very overweight person may have purchased their ticket 6 months ago - they shouldn't be the first person off. They can make the plane weight by kicking off the last passengers.

I agree that they should limit this before the last people get on. However, the last person to board isn't the same as the last person to get their ticket, or the last person confirmed. I don't think there's really any option but to let everybody on and then see if you make weight or not.

I'd really like to know more specifics of Kevin Smith's situation, because it would be a shame if he made a big deal out of this if they just kicked him off for being the last passenger. I'd like to know what they said when they kicked him off.

Oh, and by my cargo comment, I just meant that they can't dump 300lbs of US mail on to the tarmac, so they kick off a few people. That doesn't mean those people were fat, necessarily, just that they underestimated the cargo vs passenger weights.

 

[Karl_K]

Date: 2/15/2010 4:01:53 PM
Author: kenny

Date: 2/15/2010 3:56:56 PM

Author: elrohwen

And generally the plane is overweight because of other cargo (mail, etc) not because people are too fat.

An overweight plane is an overweight plane.

No item/person is any more at fault than another.


Now, you could argue that the last person to board has less of a right to stay there than the others.


I think they should make this call before the rejected passenger boards the flight.

It's not to hard to to tell the employee at the gate (via phone) to allow one more person to board only if they appear to be less than X pounds.

No large jet will be tipped over the weight limit by passengers.
Even if they are all sumo wrestlers and you packed them in with a plunger.
The mass to volume ratio of humans makes it impossible.
They try and limit baggage so they can sell the space for cargo which pays a lot more.
If a plane is overweight one of the cargo containers is removed not that it ever happens.
The captain was just being an id 10 t error.