AGS-graded WF ACA - color grading

[Dmndsr4evr11]

I’m getting very nervous reading these comments about AGS. I just ordered an expensive F color ACA for my upgrade. I will be heartbroken if I see a tint in my F. I would even pay to have it additionally certified by GIA to make sure it really is an F. There’s too many stories of this happening to ignore.
@vvvvv I can definitely see the tint in your AGS F compared to your GIA graded F.
I just edited this to say I contacted Becca at WF to ask her to send the diamond I selected to GIA..and that I would pay for it..I’ll see what she has to say. I’m pretty nervous about this now..

Hope all works out for you @MamaBee. It is hard when they are graded by human graders so subjectivity cannot be avoided even with special lighting and strict guidelines. I wish they can be graded objectively by precise technology.

 

[MamaBee]

Ok They agreed to send it to GIA. It will cost me $797...but it will be worth it. Stay tuned.

 

[Dmndsr4evr11]

Ok They agreed to send it to GIA. It will cost me $797...but it will be worth it. Stay tuned.

Wow! That’s not a cheap added cost but if it gives you an peace of mind especially with the cost of your stone, it will be worth it. Good luck @MamaBee. Keep us updated.

 

[MamaBee]

Wow! That’s not a cheap added cost but if it gives you an peace of mind especially with the cost of your stone, it will be worth it. Good luck @MamaBee. Keep us updated.

No..I think it’s more the insurance to get
there and back. I think the cert is probably only a few hundred dollars. It will be worth it to me. I would always worry and wonder if it’s really a G. What’s not great it if it comes back as a G I can change the diamond....but I would be back at the beginning..I would also lose the money for the cert. It would get pretty expensive to do that for every diamond I was considering.

 

[MamaBee]

Hope all works out for you @MamaBee. It is hard when they are graded by human graders so subjectivity cannot be avoided even with special lighting and strict guidelines. I wish they can be graded objectively by precise technology.

I agree..From what I read we would always have to have human graders because the technology isn’t there yet.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

I agree..From what I read we would always have to have human graders because the technology isn’t there yet.

It is possible that one day color grading may be done entirely by instrument. Even today GIA is grading a specific subset of their diamonds completely by machine. (Smaller goods, no fluoro, and other criteria.)

However, even if we do see the day it is all done by machine, because grades are small ranges on a continuum you would still have an inherent 1+/- variance due to instrumentation deviation/calibration.

Since we stock both GIA and AGS diamonds, we have quite a bit of experience with both labs.

 

[Dmndsr4evr11]

No..I think it’s more the insurance to get
there and back. I think the cert is probably only a few hundred dollars. It will be worth it to me. I would always worry and wonder if it’s really a G. What’s not great it if it comes back as a G I can change the diamond....but I would be back at the beginning..I would also lose the money for the cert. It would get pretty expensive to do that for every diamond I was considering.

Very true, @MamaBee. Hope everything work out.

 

[MamaBee]

Very true, @MamaBee. Hope everything work out.

Thanks @Dmndsr4evr11!

 

[Dmndsr4evr11]

It is possible that one day color grading may be done entirely by instrument. Even today GIA is grading a specific subset of their diamonds completely by machine. (Smaller goods, no fluoro, and other criteria.)

However, even if we do see the day it is all done by machine, because grades are small ranges on a continuum you would still have an inherent 1+/- variance due to instrumentation deviation/calibration.

Since we stock both GIA and AGS diamonds, we have quite a bit of experience with both labs.

I’m sure there will always be a margin of error with instruments but I think the margin of error would be smaller compared to human measurements. I hope everything works out with @MamaBee’s stone.

 

[MamaBee]

I’m sure there will always be a margin of error with instruments but I think the margin of error would be smaller compared to human measurements. I hope everything works out with @MamaBee’s stone.

@Dmndsr4evr11 The problem I have is that I’m paying a premium for an F. If it’s really a G that’s a big difference in price for a large diamond. If it was a G..and I paid for a G then it would be okay...I’m hoping it’s an F..

 

[vvvvv]

@vvvvv ,
We are sorry to hear of your disappointment. You certainly have the option to return or exchange the stone with us.

Regarding color grading, because color grades are very small ranges on a continuum and because color calls are ultimately made by human graders at the labs, there is an inherent range of potential variance between the labs of one color grade plus or minus. However, there are many safeguards in place at AGSL to insure the most consistent and accurate grading possible, including the use of GIA master color sets. In the vast majority of cases the two labs agree, but one grade variances do occur between and even within labs because of the nature of color grading.

That said, we want you to be completely happy with your selection, and your Whiteflash diamond consultant will be happy to assist you in any way you would like.

There is more info on color grading at AGSL in this article:

https://www.whiteflash.com/diamond-education/ags-color-grading

Thanks a lot for your sharing, I understand that there's always boundary between grades and my diamond seems to be at the low end of F. The article is very helpful too!

As for now, I think I will just mount the diamond in rose gold to clear my mind and upgrade the colour in future coz that will be too much back and forth effort for me to ship it safely back, and spend a lot of time to search for another stone for exchange...

 

[Dancing Fire]

I would always worry and wonder if it’s really a G. What’s not great it if it comes back as a G I can change the diamond....

What if it comes back as an E?...then you'll pay WF an additional 15K.

 

[nala]

What if it comes back as an E?...then you'll pay WF an additional 15K.

Funny how that works! IMO colors should be grades as plus or minus and priced accordingly!

 

[MamaBee]

What if it comes back as an E?...then you'll pay WF an additional 15K.

Nope! Hahaha

 

[MamaBee]

Funny how that works! IMO colors should be grades as plus or minus and priced accordingly!

I agree! They should have +/-

 

[Dancing Fire]

I agree! They should have +/-

They do that with certified coins. If it is a higher end coin for its grade then the grading service will put a + on its grade.

 

[MamaBee]

They do that with certified coins. If it is a higher end coin for its grade then the grading service will put a + on its grade.

They should definitely do that! They could even price it accordingly ..
I realized I used the same words as @nala haha

 

[Dancing Fire]

They should definitely do that! They could even price it accordingly ..

Here's an example ...both are graded MS64, one with a + and one w/o.



Same type of coin but w/o a +

 

[nala]

Here's an example ...both are graded MS64, one with a + and one w/o.



Same type of coin but w/o a +

What the cost difference?

 

[Dancing Fire]

What the cost difference?

For these two coins probably like $200 difference, but for other coins it could be a lot more. If GIA/AGS added a + to the color grade then who knows. Should GIA/AGS also add a + for its clarity grade? say for example a VS2 +?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

@Dmndsr4evr11 The problem I have is that I’m paying a premium for an F. If it’s really a G that’s a big difference in price for a large diamond. If it was a G..and I paid for a G then it would be okay...I’m hoping it’s an F..

I think that's a good idea if you are really concerned about it. Most of the time I have bought diamond pairs from WF (I upgraded 3-4 times!), I had them lay out several potential stones on the white background so I could see the color differences. I can honestly tell you that I never had a concern because I always chose stones that were in the mid to high range when compared to others, so I never felt the need to get GIA's opinion. As I said here or on another thread, I think it's the borderline color stones that can go either way, and that's true even within the same lab with different graders. I hope your diamond gets the same grade at both! But even if not, I'd personally still look at it.

 

[MamaBee]

For these two coins probably like $200 difference, but for other coins it could be a lot more. If GIA/AGS added a + to the color grade then who knows. Should GIA/AGS also add a + for its clarity grade? say for example a VS2 +?

@Dancing Fire I like it! It would relieve a lot of worry about what we purchase!

 

[MamaBee]

I think that's a good idea if you are really concerned about it. Most of the time I have bought diamond pairs from WF (I upgraded 3-4 times!), I had them lay out several potential stones on the white background so I could see the color differences. I can honestly tell you that I never had a concern because I always chose stones that were in the mid to high range when compared to others, so I never felt the need to get GIA's opinion. As I said here or on another thread, I think it's the borderline color stones that can go either way, and that's true even within the same lab with different graders. I hope your diamond gets the same grade at both! But even if not, I'd personally still look at it.

@diamondseeker2006 Can I post the photos they gave me? I had them do that. I asked them to put a G in the lineup...I passed on the F VS2 because of the clarity.

 

[Dmndsr4evr11]

What if it comes back as an E?...then you'll pay WF an additional 15K.

 

[Dmndsr4evr11]

What if it comes back as an E?...then you'll pay WF an additional 15K.

@MamaBee would be ecstatic!

 

[MamaBee]

@MamaBee would be ecstatic!

Haha..Not happening though! I won’t be greedy....Give me an F...

 

[vvvvv]

Thanks a lot for your sharing, I understand that there's always boundary between grades and my diamond seems to be at the low end of F. The article is very helpful too!

As for now, I think I will just mount the diamond in rose gold to clear my mind and upgrade the colour in future coz that will be too much back and forth effort for me to ship it safely back, and spend a lot of time to search for another stone for exchange...

Finally received the mounted jewellery piece, it is stunning! Definitely hide the yellow tint in rose gold!