AGS 0 asschers?

[belle]

he''s got a rotten brain! it''s rotten i tell ya, rotten!

 

[flopkins]

Date: 8/14/2006 9:59:22 PM
Author: kenny
Wow John


I''m just soaking this all up like a sponge-kenny-square-pants.

Can I second that?!!!

The last ppt image, the one you said you thought was the painting.... I am SWOONING!!!!

 

[flopkins]

Also, John - I have not seen the VLVF matrices before - can you explain more?

What exactly are we looking at? You said they were composites, I believe of ASET images at specific angles, but how is there so much info encoded on each matrix? Is each triptych showing a composite of thousands of ASETs from various stones cut w/in certain parameters? Or showing a composite of thousands of ASET images for one stone w/a certain set of parameters?

 

[Mara]

i can't wait to see more about the AGS0 asschers....i think if the top cut grade turns out to be sound, it will make it easier on people who come to PS seeking asschers and typically now have to rely on non-expert opinions to find that primo asscher in the rough. it'd be great if consumers could also feel more confident as well in their own potential skills to choose a great asscher!

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 8/15/2006 12:37:54 AM
Author: flopkins
Also, John - I have not seen the VLVF matrices before - can you explain more?

Sure Flopkins.

The VLVF matrices are like mosaics - each is created of thousands of tiny, smaller images. I’m a little embarrassed to use this as my intelligent example,

but have you ever seen those large collectible mosaic posters? A friend of mine has one from Star Wars: When you go to his house and view it from across the room it’s Yoda's head, but when you get right up close you see each ‘pixel’ creating the large picture is actually a tiny picture itself.

The VLVF matrices AGS designed are the same thing. Each is made up of thousands of tiny images (either FireMap, ASET30 or ASET40). They are not random. These images are organized in the same way our normal cut charts, or the HCA are, by ascending table size, crown and pavilion angle.

I started to prepare a simple graphic but warmed to the subject... So now I've prepared several, if you'll bear with me.

 

[JohnQuixote]

For instance, here is a micro example such a matrix. It is a compilation of ASET30 images for 6mm round brilliant diamonds with 55% tables. Pavilion angle ascends from 39.8-43.0 bottom to top while crown angle ascends from 29.0-35.6 left to right.

This is lo-res, of course.

(© 2005 AGS, used with permission)

 

[JohnQuixote]

The matrix is now extended to include CA all the way up to 38.4

The zoomed ASET image shows where Tolkowsky's angles fall on this chart (40.75/34.50).

(© 2005 AGS, used with permission)

 

[JohnQuixote]

Here is a round brilliant triptych. The 3 panels are all VLVF matrices for round brilliants, 56% table, PA 10-60 and CA 10-60.

Each VLVF is composed of 62,500 smaller images (for comparison purposes, the graphic in the post above is composed of 768 images). The one on the left is composed of 62,500 FireMaps. Center is composed of 62,500 ASET30s and right is composed of 62,500 ASET40s.

ASET30 = ASET with 30 degrees of obstruction
ASET40 = ASET with 40 degrees of obstruction (like if your mom has big hair)

(© 2006 AGS, used with permission)

 

[JohnQuixote]

Here is a zoom of the ASET30 matrix, above. I've included arrows to indicate Tolkowsky's angles. You can see Marcel is in a predictable sweet spot of desirable red (which indicates optimum light return in these ASET images).

You can see how Garry’s HCA box agrees with this ‘sweet spot’ of AGS research, as does GIA’s EX grade.

 

[JohnQuixote]

These are not hi-res, but they give an idea of the appeal of these VLVF matrices.

RB FireMap.

(© 2006 AGS, used with permission)

 

[JohnQuixote]

RB ASET30

(© 2006 AGS, used with permission)

 

[JohnQuixote]

RB ASET40.

(© 2006 AGS, used with permission)

 

[JohnQuixote]

You can see why AGSL is calling these matrices the DNA of diamond design. You can also imagine how beautiful these diagrams are in larger sizes and hi-res.

 

[RockDoc]

Hi John

Burning past the midnite oil there aren''t ya?

Geez 2: 46 am there.

(tonight Im no better, as its an hour later here )

Rockdoc

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 8/15/2006 3:52:28 AM
Author: RockDoc
Hi John

Burning past the midnite oil there aren''t ya?

Geez 2: 46 am there.

(tonight Im no better, as its an hour later here)

Rockdoc

Good evening Dr. Rock... We''ve heard the chimes alright.

I started to answer Flopkins'' question and once I got rolling there was just no stopping. Most of the time my homework is numbers and angles. These charts are so groovy.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Square Emerald Triptych. VLVF matrices for square emeralds, 60% table, 18% corner ratio, PA1 20-70 and C1 20-70. FireMap, ASET30 and ASET40.

 

[JohnQuixote]

SE FireMap

(© 2006 AGS, used with permission)

 

[JohnQuixote]

SE ASET30

(© 2006 AGS, used with permission)

 

[JohnQuixote]

SE ASET40

(© 2006 AGS, used with permission)

 

[JohnQuixote]

And… The Princess Triptych.

VLVF matrices for square emeralds, 60% table, P2 10-60 and C1 10-60. FireMap, ASET30 and ASET40.

It’s compelling to see the dynamic differences between the shapes and their respective charts.

 

[JohnQuixote]

PR FireMap

(© 2006 AGS, used with permission)

 

[JohnQuixote]

PR ASET30

(© 2006 AGS, used with permission)

 

[JohnQuixote]

PR ASET40

(© 2006 AGS, used with permission)

 

[JohnQuixote]

Of course, there are different triptychs for every different table size, number of chevrons, different configurations, etc. It’s all very engaging and it''s a way the lab is ‘giving back’ to the manufacturers.

The information has been extremely helpful to our research and development, and the cutters who embrace these studies give critical feedback – and are helping the lab understand how the practical shakes hands with the theoretical.

 

[JohnQuixote]

I see some responses I overlooked on P1. Please forgive - I require an urgent meeting with my pillow before I reply.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 8/14/2006 7:07:14 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 8/14/2006 6:11:10 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

You''re welcome Strm. Glad to post it.

I know you''re a fan of symmetry. What do you think of the ''Pointing The Corners'' information above; traditional aesthetics versus the performance benefits AGS cites?

Its interesting and there are a lot of sides to it.
This applies to ECs.
What I look at is the length of the keel in relation to the length of the diamond.
This tells you what the corner facets are doing.
A too long culet adds weight as does fat pavilions combine the 2 and the performance sucks.
A too long culet and proper angles is better but not ideal.
Too short a culet destroys the EC look and costs weight.
So the trick is to make it on the long side but not too long and the ideal length varies based on the width of the EC
So my opinion is that pointing them at each other will look good one some and crud on others depends on the l/w ratio and table size.
Like AGS stated above change one thing with an EC/SE and everything else changes also or it barks.

my 2c :}

It would be instructional to create VLVF matrices for pointed/non-pointed @ different configs and see where predicted fire and ASET sweet spots are relative to your musings above. It wouldn''t be necessary to make macro charts - just some spanning practical ranges.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 8/14/2006 9:58:21 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 8/14/2006 9:01:45 PM
Author: Wink

Date: 8/14/2006 7:16:10 PM
Author: strmrdr

The crown facets should be equal however.

Why?

because they look better that way :}

Wouldn't it be nice if this could actually be a legitimate answer for things around here?

Newbie: OMG! How do I determine my HBA +/- .5 stepdrep and pantrygirls worry?
Answerer: make them earrings
Newbie: Why?
Answerer: because they look better that way
Everyone else (in unison): We agree

On-topic - Here's the Wink link I was looking for. Lots of discussion.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/some-interesting-things-from-ags-class.40823/

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 8/14/2006 10:33:43 PM
Author: kenny

Belle, I can not telle,
Till my master John,
Assures me it is on,
its merry merry way.

Hint: It could only be mind-cleaner with a lobotomy.

BUAHAHAHAHAHA!

LOL. I'll read that as 'mister John,' since I'm pretty sure you are your own Master, good sir Ken.

I hope you don't mind if I adopt that 'mind-cleaner' quip. I'm mining witticisms for the upcoming GIA symposium. While the lounge conversation won't be algonquinian it's not bottom feeding either.

As for the new acquisition: In casual circles it can be your AGS 0000. Cheers.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 8/15/2006 5:35:53 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

Date: 8/14/2006 9:58:21 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 8/14/2006 9:01:45 PM
Author: Wink

Date: 8/14/2006 7:16:10 PM
Author: strmrdr

The crown facets should be equal however.

Why?

because they look better that way :}

Wouldn''t it be nice if this could actually be a legitimate answer for things around here?

Newbie: OMG! How do I determine my HBA +/- .5 stepdrep and pantrygirls worry?
Answerer: make them earrings
Newbie: Why?
Answerer: because they look better that way
Everyone else (in unison): We agree

On-topic - Here''s the Wink link I was looking for. Lots of discussion.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/some-interesting-things-from-ags-class.40823/

I doubt that I shall ever see, a poem as lovely as a tree...

Oops. I get confused.

I doubt that I shall ever see, a dozen pricescopers singing I agree...

Would that life was this simple.

On the other hand, it helps when we can give them solid scientific facts to chew on instead of just opinions.

Nice thread John, and thanks for referencing my earlier thread on the matter. Nice to see how the level of understanding has risen in the past few months, at the consumer as well as at the vendor level.

Wink

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 8/15/2006 5:35:53 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

Date: 8/14/2006 9:58:21 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 8/14/2006 9:01:45 PM
Author: Wink

Date: 8/14/2006 7:16:10 PM
Author: strmrdr

The crown facets should be equal however.

Why?

because they look better that way :}

Wouldn''t it be nice if this could actually be a legitimate answer for things around here?

Newbie: OMG! How do I determine my HBA +/- .5 stepdrep and pantrygirls worry?
Answerer: make them earrings
Newbie: Why?
Answerer: because they look better that way
Everyone else (in unison): We agree

On-topic - Here''s the Wink link I was looking for. Lots of discussion.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/some-interesting-things-from-ags-class.40823/

LOL
Im sure I could come up with some legit mumbo jumbo that 2-3 people might understand to defend it but the simple explanation is that it looks better in lighting where you can see the crown facets clearly.
It also helps form 2 of the major asscher patterns - corners and crown arrow patern.
These look better with even crown steps.
I suspect that it will also have a negative effect on fire and scint if they are too far off.
But I think I will stick with they look better :}