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AGS 0 asschers?

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by kenny, Aug 11, 2006.

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  1. kenny
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by kenny » Aug 11, 2006
    I heard AGS is working on cut standards for asschers, square emerald cut diamonds.

    WHat do you guys know about this?

    I''m looking forward to this because frankly I have never considered selecting one.
    I love asschers but I''m the type that really appreciates (depends on) tools like HCA and tight cut standards from AGS.

    I want the best cut possible, but I hesitate to trust sales people and frankly I''m intimidated by all you have to learn when selecting diamonds.
    Bring on the cut standards and the tools for asschers!
     
    


    


  2. decodelighted
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by decodelighted » Aug 11, 2006
    I agree ... not only would it make things MUCH easier for those of us who already love asschers, but it would open up the beauties to those who need "mind perfectlly cut" stones.

    HOWEVER, I don't think AGS O Asschers are going to ever "perform" like AGS 0 Rounds or Princesses do. They're an entirely different, slippery, glimmery, liquid creature -- that no matter how "perfect" the angles, how concentric the facets, how deep the hall of mirrors -- you're talking FLASHES of light versus SPARKLES .. INWARD focused versus OUTWARD dazzle.
     
  3. JohnQuixote
    Ideal_Rock

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    by JohnQuixote » Aug 11, 2006
    Kenny,

    Here's some info for you. As they did with the 0 'Ideal' Princess, AGS released research & cutting guidelines for emerald / square emerald (nickname Asscher) to manufacturers prior to offering grading services.

    Here is a little bit of info from the time of that release: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/scenes-from-jck-2006.46041/page-2
     
  4. kenny
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by kenny » Aug 11, 2006
    Decodelighted, I understand the AGS 0 asschers won't look like the AGS 0 rounds or princesses.
    Each cut has its own look.
    But any cut can be badly cut or well cut.

    I just like the idea of a top lab setting standards so that a novice like me can use to be assured of some level of quality cut.
    I have followed many asscher threads and I just can't learn.
    I'm too dumb, or it's more complicated than I care to digest.

    I think asscher sales will increase greatly when the cut standards are released.
    I'm not the only insecure customer who needs the warm fuzzy feeling that tools and cut grades from top labs provide.

    I realize the experts don't need these cut grades and feel comfortable buying even EGL stones.
    That's fine if you care to spend the time learning a lot, and achieving that level of self confidence.

    Give me tools, like HCA, and AGS 0 grades.

    I hope AGS tackles emerald cuts next.
     
    


    


  5. JohnQuixote
    Ideal_Rock

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    by JohnQuixote » Aug 11, 2006
    True Deco - rounds in particular. You''ll be pleased to know AGS is allowing for a wider range of taste and possible ''looks'' within the Ideal grade for princess and emerald cuts for that very reason. We agree wholeheartedly, as we''ve spent considerable time producing and studying different visual ''looks'' possible for our forthcoming AGS 0 Ideal princess.
     
  6. strmrdr
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    by strmrdr » Aug 11, 2006
    To be honest I'm not expecting a flood of ags0 asschers any time soon.
    Paul is gearing up for them and the 2 or 3 cutting houses that cut well cut asschers now might run some thru AGS if they can get more money for them that way but I don't really expect many major players to pick them up soon.

    The will likely remain a niche market for several reasons.

    1: not everyone gets asschers so the market is small
    2: the rough can be cut into princess cuts and sold for more money in most cases, that limits rough supply.
    3: they arent easy to design
    4: they are hard to cut well
    5: its going to take a hefty premium to get big players moving on them but the limited demand is going to damper that long term.
     
  7. JohnQuixote
    Ideal_Rock

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    by JohnQuixote » Aug 14, 2006
    Here are some graphics and information put out in June by AGS.

    (© 2006 AGS, used with permission)

    AGS2006Emerald_1.jpg
     
  8. JohnQuixote
    Ideal_Rock

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    by JohnQuixote » Aug 14, 2006
    (© 2006 AGS, used with permission)

    Emerald Cut Geometry

    * In a bird’s-eye view, the crown steps or ‘‘tiers’’ are equal in width.
    * Corner ratio is defined as the height of the corner divided by the width.
    * The crown step facets or ‘‘tiers’’ start from the girdle edge with C1.

    AGS2006Emerald_2aZoom.jpg
     
  9. JohnQuixote
    Ideal_Rock

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    by JohnQuixote » Aug 14, 2006
    (© 2006 AGS, used with permission)

    * In a bird’s eye view, the pavilion steps or ‘‘tiiers’’ are equal in width.
    * The pavilion steps or ‘‘tiers’’ start from the girdle edge with P1.
    * Length-to-width ratio is calculated by dividing the length by the width.

    AGS2006Emerald_2bZoom.jpg
     
  10. JohnQuixote
    Ideal_Rock

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    by JohnQuixote » Aug 14, 2006
    (© 2006 AGS, used with permission)

    AGS2006Emerald_3.jpg
     
    


    


  11. JohnQuixote
    Ideal_Rock

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    by JohnQuixote » Aug 14, 2006
    (© 2006 AGS, used with permission)

    AGS2006Emerald_4.jpg
     
  12. JohnQuixote
    Ideal_Rock

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    by JohnQuixote » Aug 14, 2006
    (© 2006 AGS, used with permission)

    Pointing The Corners

    * As with all fancy shapes, cutters must compromise in some area of the stone. With the emerald cut that area is the corners.

    * Pointing the corners at each other improves the performance of the corners.

    * This also explains why larger table sizes benefit ‘long’ emeralds – the larger table size reduces the area of the ‘weak’ performing corners, thereby increasing overall performance.

    AGS2006Emerald_5Zoom.jpg
     
  13. JohnQuixote
    Ideal_Rock

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    by JohnQuixote » Aug 14, 2006
    (© 2006 AGS, used with permission)

    AGS2006Emerald_6b.jpg
     
  14. JohnQuixote
    Ideal_Rock

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    by JohnQuixote » Aug 14, 2006
    (© 2006 AGS, used with permission)

    AGS2006Emerald_7.jpg
     
  15. JohnQuixote
    Ideal_Rock

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    by JohnQuixote » Aug 14, 2006
    The following VLVF matrixes & triptych are something else. I know Wink posted preliminary info about them some time ago. Each panel in the next graphic is made up of thousands of ASET or fire map images (fire map on the left, ASET 30 deg obs in center, ASET 40 deg obs on right). Not only are they beautiful when seen in color at hi-res; they also reveal fundamental information for manufacturers about the 'sweet spots' of cutting and risk vs reward when trying new approaches.
     
    


    


  16. JohnQuixote
    Ideal_Rock

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    by JohnQuixote » Aug 14, 2006
    (© 2006 AGS, used with permission)

    Very Large, Very Fine Matrixes

    * This is a triptych ( three-panel ) image of a very large, very fine matrix for a Round Brilliant cut with a 56% table, 50% star length and 80% lower girdle height.

    * There are 62,500 proportion sets in each matrix.

    * We call these images “The DNA of Diamond Design”.

    AGS2006Emerald_10Zoom.jpg
     
  17. JohnQuixote
    Ideal_Rock

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    by JohnQuixote » Aug 14, 2006
    (© 2006 AGS, used with permission)

    Sense of Scale

    This image shows you just how much information is contained in a Very Large, Very Fine Matrix.

    AGS2006Emerald_11Zoom.jpg
     
  18. JohnQuixote
    Ideal_Rock

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    by JohnQuixote » Aug 14, 2006
    (© 2006 AGS, used with permission)

    AGS2006Emerald_12.jpg
     
  19. JohnQuixote
    Ideal_Rock

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    by JohnQuixote » Aug 14, 2006
    (© 2006 AGS, used with permission)

    We learned from our research on the round brilliant and the princess cuts that Mother Nature doesn’t make diamond perform in a rectangular shape of proportion sets. The same thing is occurring here. Not all of the proportion sets in the rectangular box shapes in the (below) images have high performance, only the areas inside the rectangle that are yellow in the FireMaps and red in the two ASET images.

    AGS2006Emerald_13Zoom.jpg
     
  20. JohnQuixote
    Ideal_Rock

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    by JohnQuixote » Aug 14, 2006
    (© 2006 AGS, used with permission)

    Scintillation

    Research continues on scintillation. The following images show ASET 30, ASET 40, FireMap and some recent work on scintillation. The image on your right is the same stone rotated 45 degrees. The top row in each image is a face-up view. The next row is tilted 10 degrees. The third row from the top is tilted 20 degrees. Lastly, the bottom row is tilted 30 degrees.

    AGS2006Emerald_14Zoom.jpg
     
  21. JohnQuixote
    Ideal_Rock

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    by JohnQuixote » Aug 14, 2006
    At first glance I though this looked like a painting, but it's an actual photo of a square emerald cut for AGS by an Indian manufacturer using parameters resulting from this research.

    (© 2006 AGS, used with permission)

    AGS2006Emerald_15.jpg
     
  22. strmrdr
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by strmrdr » Aug 14, 2006
    kewl stuff

    Thanks sir John.

    I''m looking forward to more info and examples as they become available.

    It is looking good so far if the diamonds live up to the talk its going to be good times for asscher fans.
     
  23. JohnQuixote
    Ideal_Rock

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    by JohnQuixote » Aug 14, 2006
    You're welcome Strm. Glad to post it.

    I know you're a fan of symmetry. What do you think of the 'Pointing The Corners' information above; traditional aesthetics versus the performance benefits AGS cites?
     
  24. strmrdr
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by strmrdr » Aug 14, 2006
    Its interesting and there are a lot of sides to it.
    This applies to ECs.
    What I look at is the length of the keel in relation to the length of the diamond.
    This tells you what the corner facets are doing.
    A too long culet adds weight as does fat pavilions combine the 2 and the performance sucks.
    A too long culet and proper angles is better but not ideal.
    Too short a culet destroys the EC look and costs weight.
    So the trick is to make it on the long side but not too long and the ideal length varies based on the width of the EC
    So my opinion is that pointing them at each other will look good one some and crud on others depends on the l/w ratio and table size.
    Like AGS stated above change one thing with an EC/SE and everything else changes also or it barks.

    my 2c :}
     
  25. strmrdr
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by strmrdr » Aug 14, 2006
    One this I do find surprising is this "In a bird’s eye view, the pavilion steps or ‘‘tiiers’’ are equal in width."
    That imho is a needless limitation from a performance stand point but from a cut grade design stand point I see why they did it.
    I think it will have the effect of limiting the rough they can be cut from but it will eliminate a whole lot of woofers and one of the most common weight cheats also.
    So its ok I guess,,,,

    The crown facets should be equal however.
     
  26. Wink
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

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    by Wink » Aug 14, 2006
    Why?
     
  27. strmrdr
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by strmrdr » Aug 14, 2006
    because they look better that way :}
     
  28. kenny
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by kenny » Aug 14, 2006
    Wow John

    I'm just soaking this all up like a sponge-kenny-square-pants.

    [​IMG]

    BTW I'll take that diamond we talked about last Friday.
    Contact you tomorrow.

    Mum's the word, till I secure it.
     
  29. belle
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by belle » Aug 14, 2006
    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????????[​IMG]

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    darn you!

    *belle...off wondering what vvs1 beauty kenny has his eye on now*

    [​IMG]
     
  30. kenny
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by kenny » Aug 14, 2006
    Belle, I can not telle,
    Till my master John,
    Assures me it is on,
    its merry merry way.

    Hint: It could only be mind-cleaner with a lobotomy.

    BUAHAHAHAHAHA! [​IMG][​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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