Advice on this pair of diamonds 4+ ctw

[Pagalkutti]

Hello folks. ...long time lurker first time poster.
Considering these 2 stones for a diamond stud earring .

Gia 1289764969 and 2297191896

One is 2.01 and the other is 2.02

D color, vvs1 everything excellent, no fluorescence.

Price is around 104k for the pair.

What do you folks think about

1. The quality of these stones? Should I go for IF vs Vvs1 at this price range? Or does it really not matter from a long term price retention standpoint

2. Are they fairly priced at 104k? They seem to have a standard blue nile level retail markup.

Thank you in advance

 

[MissGotRocks]

I assume your desire for such high color/clarity stems from a cultural standpoint? However, I would still not pay for D/VVS1 for earrings. I also would be purchasing from a super ideal vendor like Whiteflash, Brian Gavin or High Performance Diamonds to insure the best cut possible.

This stone is very white, very eyeclean and would be hard to differentiate between a D/VVS1. See the large price difference? This would be my recommendation if you really need or want high color/clarity. I would be contacting the previously mentioned vendors for a matching pair.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4006547.htm?source=pricescope

 

[Snowdrop13]

Both of these are cut too deep, I’d pass given your budget. Do you need such a high colour? And many would argue that for earrings you really don’t require such high clarity. Down to VS2 will likely be eye clean and most people won’t get close enough to your earrings to see inclusions anyway!

Here is a gorgeous pair of superideal cuts, they will be amazingly sparkly and note the much lower price!

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-di...etails.aspx?Diamond1=4018647&Diamond2=3999627

And this pair of G VS2s should still be plenty white and eye clean,

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-di...etails.aspx?Diamond1=4016765&Diamond2=4018650 ($55k)

 

[Pagalkutti]

Hello would like to understand what "cut too deep" means. These are rated Excellent cut by Gia. ... Are there nuances within the excellent cut as well that one should be aware of?

I'm regards to Missgotrocks question... Many factors at play here....not really a cultural reason. A combination of diversifying the portfolio, alternative investment, value retention plus wifey would appreciate a nice pair of diamonds is what is making me go for the higher specs

I need to put 100k into diamonds ..... This is what I came up with which satisfies the investment objectives and makes wife happy. Hope that makes sense...

 

[MissGotRocks]

Hello would like to understand what "cut too deep" means. These are rated Excellent cut by Gia. ... Are there nuances within the excellent cut as well that one should be aware of?

I'm regards to Missgotrocks question... Many factors at play here....not really a cultural reason. A combination of diversifying the portfolio, alternative investment, value retention plus wifey would appreciate a nice pair of diamonds is what is making me go for the higher specs

I need to put 100k into diamonds ..... This is what I came up with which satisfies the investment objectives and makes wife happy. Hope that makes sense...

Cut too deep means that weight is hidden in the depth. That gives you a smaller face up stone. These are the parameters that we recommend:

Table 54-58
Depth no more than 62.1
Crown angle 34-35
Pavilion 40.6 - 40.9

Diamonds are NOT a great investment tool. The diamond market goes up and down like everything else. I would not consider diamonds a place to diversify the portfolio as you will never be guaranteed a return. Reselling them at some point in the future will just about guarantee a loss on your initial investment unless you are trading them in with a well known vendor. They are luxury items that might retain more value than another commodity but I would spend that money on diamonds only if that is something that she wants and plans to wear and enjoy for the rest of her life, you can spare the money, and your other investments are solid. Talk to a financial planner before making this large of a purchase on diamonds. You can spend much less and make her just as happy.

That said, if you want to gift your wife with beautiful earrings, you can certainly go much lower in color/clarity and get a beautiful, sparkly pair of earrings - just like the ones posted above. You might consider adding a diamond tennis bracelet to the mix with the savings on the earrings!!

 

[flyingpig]

Here is a diamond with 41.6 pavilion angle. (deep stone)
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5436580
Here is a diamond with 40.6 pavilion angle
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vvs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5592106
You can decide which one looks more pleasing.

Missgotrocks provided you with the ideal ranges.
Table 54-58
Depth no more than 62.1
Crown angle 34-35
Pavilion 40.6 - 40.9

Finding a well cut 2.0x D VVS+ with numbers above is near possible. I would allow table upto 60, depth upto 62.5, crown angle 32.5~36.0 (as long as coupled with complementary pavilion angle), pavilion 40.5-41.2 (as long as coupled with complementary crown angle)

A pavilion angle of 41.4~41.8 is just outright unacceptable for me. You can see the effect.
The cutter kept the pavilion angle at 41.6~41.8 for your stones to achieve 2.0x carat weight.
If well cut, these stones would be 1.9x.
So basically, you are paying extra 10000~15000 for 0.0x carat for each stone that actually makes the diamonds look uglier.
2.0c D VVS 50k GIA Ex. That's what most gullible shoppers care, despite the fact that craftmanship and cut quality is terrible. Easy money for the cutter

 

[Pagalkutti]

Wow....this has been highly educational for me.
So on top of triple X Gia.,with D color, vvs1 and above.. . One needs to pay attention to these specs around table, depth, crown and Pavillion angles.

I always wondered looking at blue nile etc... Why the same same spec diamonds(D, 2 CT, vvs1, Triple. X) still have variations in price ...... I obviously was not paying attention to these specs.

I really appreciate the responses folks!

Here is a diamond with 41.6 pavilion angle. (deep stone)
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5436580
Here is a diamond with 40.6 pavilion angle
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vvs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5592106
You can decide which one looks more pleasing.

Missgotrocks provided you with the ideal ranges.
Table 54-58
Depth no more than 62.1
Crown angle 34-35
Pavilion 40.6 - 40.9

Finding a well cut 2.0x D VVS+ with numbers above is near possible. I would allow table upto 60, depth upto 62.5, crown angle 32.5~36.0 (as long as coupled with complementary pavilion angle), pavilion 40.5-41.2 (as long as coupled with complementary crown angle)

A pavilion angle of 41.4~41.8 is just outright unacceptable for me. You can see the effect.
The cutter kept the pavilion angle at 41.6~41.8 for your stones to achieve 2.0x carat weight.
If well cut, these stones would be 1.9x.
So basically, you are paying extra 10000~15000 for 0.0x carat for each stone that actually makes the diamonds look uglier.
2.0c D VVS 50k GIA Ex. That's what most gullible shoppers care, despite the fact that craftmanship and cut quality is terrible. Easy money for the cutter

 

[KKJohnson]

I second contacting Whiteflash to get an amazing pair of matched diamonds

4ct well under that 104k

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-di...etails.aspx?Diamond1=4016765&Diamond2=4018650

5.1 ct still under budget

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-di...etails.aspx?Diamond1=3986370&Diamond2=4018662

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Truly, as others have said, if you want high quality diamonds, please look at the superideal cuts at Whiteflash. I am another who chose to get my diamond studs from them because cut quality is THE most important factor in a diamond's beauty. Because they have tight parameters in cutting their stones, it is easy to find a good matched pair in their ACA line.

As far as the D VVS+ goes, diamonds in the G-H VS range are far more easy to sell, if needed, than a D VVS+. I can tell you now that we see people here buy diamonds every day, and rarely is anyone looking for D VVS, and you'd likely lose a lot of money trying to sell one.

But if you just favor colorless stones with high clarity, I'd go with E-F VS1 as those will virtually look the same as D VVS to the eye and be more reasonably priced.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/compare.aspx?idnos=3999627,4006547

I haven't looked at all the pairs posted, but my WF ACA earrings are H VS2 and look nice and bright and white on my ears.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

If size is a factor for her, these F VS1's are a little larger. That's still considered very high in color and clarity.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/compare.aspx?idnos=3885297,4022262

 

[Pagalkutti]

Hi..size is not a huge factor. These will most likely end up being heirloom pieces passed on to the next gen etc so the idea is to make sure to buy something of high quality that would still be considered high quality 50 years from now. 4 ctw seems to be a good enough size for earrings ..don't need them to be bigger than that given budget etc.
I understand the concept of max bang for the buck and getting the same pleasure from slightly lower grades etc but I have a dual purpose here. Maybe investment is the wrong word but I want the quality to be at the top tier and unquestionable 50 years from now.
I also do not want to do it by going over the top and paying crazy markups ....for example by chasing Flawless only ....perfectly fine with IF or VVS1 for example.

I hope that makes sense and hopefully I am conveying my thought process accurately......

If size is a factor for her, these F VS1's are a little larger. That's still considered very high in color and clarity.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/compare.aspx?idnos=3885297,4022262

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I understand what you are saying, but cut quality is the most important factor in a diamond's beauty. I definitely think 50 years from now, a superideal cut E VS1 is going to be more desirable to knowledgable people than a generic D VVS that's just excellent cut. If you offered me the pair you posted versus the pair I posted, I wouldn't even have to think twice!

 

[Pagalkutti]

Oh totally! And based on what I learned today ...I am not going in for the pair I posted!

Plan going forward is to still look for D/VVS1 but within the specs of the cut posted by Flyingpig and MissGotRocks above........

[

I understand what you are saying, but cut quality is the most important factor in a diamond's beauty. I definitely think 50 years from now, a superideal cut E VS1 is going to be more desirable to knowledgable people than a generic D VVS that's just excellent cut. If you offered me the pair you posted versus the pair I posted, I wouldn't even have to think twice!

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/compare.aspx?idnos=3999627,4006547

I haven't looked at all the pairs posted, but my WF ACA earrings are H VS2 and look nice and bright and white on my ears.[/QUOTE]

 

[crbl999]

Hi..size is not a huge factor. These will most likely end up being heirloom pieces passed on to the next gen etc so the idea is to make sure to buy something of high quality that would still be considered high quality 50 years from now. 4 ctw seems to be a good enough size for earrings ..don't need them to be bigger than that given budget etc.
I understand the concept of max bang for the buck and getting the same pleasure from slightly lower grades etc but I have a dual purpose here. Maybe investment is the wrong word but I want the quality to be at the top tier and unquestionable 50 years from now.
I also do not want to do it by going over the top and paying crazy markups ....for example by chasing Flawless only ....perfectly fine with IF or VVS1 for example.

I hope that makes sense and hopefully I am conveying my thought process accurately......

You will find top quality stones with ACA, HPD, and BGD. I would suggest you take a look at Crafted by Infinity/High Performance Diamonds. They are the only super ideal vendor that cuts stones in house. This makes them quite unique and I believe it certainly would add to the heirloom/sentimental quality you're looking for.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

With a generous budget and fastidious parameters, consider custom cut?

cheers--Sharon

 

[diamondseeker2006]

You will find top quality stones with ACA, HPD, and BGD. I would suggest you take a look at Crafted by Infinity/High Performance Diamonds. They are the only super ideal vendor that cuts stones in house. This makes them quite unique and I believe it certainly would add to the heirloom/sentimental quality you're looking for.

In house? All superideal cuts (posted on PS) are cut at diamond cutting facilities outside the US. It is true that Crafted by Infinity markets their superideal cut diamonds through HPD online and some jewelry stores in the US. I don't see that that has any bearing whatsoever in deciding which diamond to buy, because superideal cut diamonds will always be rare and top of the line regardless of the brand. In any event, he isn't interested in superideal cuts anyway.

@Pagalkutti Okay, you can get well cut GIA stones using those numbers, but they just won't be top cut quality. But since you value color and clarity the most, that's probably the best way to find D VVS. I would encourage you to please post any that you are interested in here before you purchase and we will certainly try to help you find the best possible pair!

 

[Pagalkutti]

A quick glance at ACA, Hpd and bgd are not showing any diamonds which are 2 - 2.1 ct, D and VVS. So finding 2 is even going to be harder!

 

[MissGotRocks]

Call the vendors and talk to them about what you want. They are able to access diamonds and can help you select a pair of beautifully cut earrings. GIA excellent cut range is broad so you don't want to try to buy blind. The super ideals are almost always graded by AGS. A D, IF clarity stone can look like a large white disc if not well cut. It would be wonderful if you could make appointments with some of the vendors to actually see some really well cut stones. The price may be in the paper but the beauty is truly what the eye beholds. You are looking to spend a lot of money and I would love to see you walk away with something spectacular!!

 

[AV_]

...quality that would still be considered high quality 50 years from now. 4 ctw seems to be a good enough ...

Larger diamonds are simply rare and memorable. 2cts is enough for wear, but it makes no sense to keep this limit for the purpose you mention. You may wish to keep in mind that all grades are somewhat arbitrary, and categories very narrow - so that it is difficult to tell any grade for its neighbours... & further. You will hear of historical pairs of diamonds E-If / D-SI ... but hardly D & I - the colors would not be quite finely matched for large stones & rarefied standards.

I am not sure at what point a pair of diamonds is great. Perhaps 5tcw - which is close enough to what you already have in mind. (why 5tcw? - because 5 is a significant number for a single stone... )

Just a thought...

D-E / VS2 & better, cut perfectly and cut as a pair (so that proportions match) would meet my highest expectations & common sense too ... It is a special pleasure to see diamonds matched to the point that they are indistinguishable ,) Certainly not run of the mill yet - perhaps never.

2c

 

[EvaEvans]

A quick glance at ACA, Hpd and bgd are not showing any diamonds which are 2 - 2.1 ct, D and VVS. So finding 2 is even going to be harder!

Stuck to the diamond crystal quality, not the super ideal cut.
However, E, VS1 is also amazing quality!
I like this suggested pair:
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/compare.aspx?idnos=3999627,4006547

 

[Phoenix]

If size is not a huge consideration, and with such a generous budget, how about Harry Winston or Cartier? Those would still be internationally recognised 50-100 years from now. In fact, I've seen their pieces going in Christies and Sothebys auctions at way above what was paid years ago.

 

[yssie]

Ditto @Phoenix - branded pieces will, in general, hold their value much better than generic diamonds of comparable colour/clarity (irrespective of cut quality). I second the suggestion to at least examine this possibility since this does seem to be a priority for you

 

[Pagalkutti]

Hello Folks...with my new found education...I have started looking for stones that meet the specs laid out earlier in the thread.

Can you pls render your opinion on GIA 7291770913 and 6305384776

They are not exactly matched in terms of size for earrings but wanted to get an opinion on the cut angles etc.

 

[ringo865]

A quick glance at ACA, Hpd and bgd are not showing any diamonds which are 2 - 2.1 ct, D and VVS. So finding 2 is even going to be harder!

Because, as you have been advised, there is not a large market for these.