Advice needed on cloudy diamond...

[MamaBee]

I don’t think they should go in there demanding anything...but on the other hand I do think if they are too soft then the jeweler will think they will just go away...I would go in and be pleasant..and be prepared to be a little firmer in your request for an exchange. A good jeweler will explain all the pros and cons when explaining to a young man or woman looking for guidance in buying a diamond for their soon to be fiancé. The jeweler recommended this stone and I feel he was just trying to make the sale without giving her fiancé guidance. It sounds like this is a very small store because they didn’t have any diamonds in the store...There must be something the jeweler can do at this point to help but he has to be motivated to do it. If he thinks they will just put their tails between their legs and leave..then he won’t be motivated to help. If the couple acts pleasant but they don’t look like they will leave easily he may try harder to help. They may have to pay a difference in prices or go down in size....and they should act thankful considering it’s late in the game. ..but I don’t think any vendor here would have sold that diamond to that man without explaining what he was purchasing.

 

[Rubymal]

I understand your frustration, but as @yssie said, the vendor doesn't owe you anything. There were not any fraudulent business practices here. They disclosed all of the information at the time of purchase to your fiancé by giving him the GIA certificate. I'm sure they also had a return period during which he could've returned the diamond (typically 30 days). Again, as @yssie and @TheGarnetGirl said, it's on the buyer to do their homework in these circumstances. If he had done a bit of research, he would've known that SI1-SI2 diamonds with twinning wisps or clouds as the grade-setting inclusion typically suffer from transparency problems. And if he had looked closely at the diamond after initially picking it up from the store and seen how much different it looked from the side stones, then he could've returned it for a different stone at that time.

I certainly think it's worthwhile to approach the jeweler and inquire about a possible exchange, and it sounds like they might be willing to work with you judging by the initial phone inquiry. But I would not go in there and "demand" anything as others in this thread have suggested. Approaching the jeweler as if he/she has wronged you (which he/she has not BTW) will likely not get you anywhere, as it will just tick off the jeweler. In such a case, they'll probably tell you to "read the fine print" on your receipt, remind you that they disclosed everything at the time of sale, and show you the door.

I never stated that the jeweler wronged anyone. I do agree that my fiance should have done his homework. He blindly trusted the jeweler's recommendation. I never saw the receipt so I did not read any fine print. My mistake is letting my fiance do the driving and not micro managing the process as I am extremely diligent about paying attention to the small details and keeping in mind return/exchange policies. I strongly encouraged my fiance to only inquire about stones he could see in person first. He did not do this. I don't blame the jeweler for this. Do I wish the jeweler mentioned that a stone with this clarity rating may have hazyness issues? Yes. Was he required to disclose that? No. I'm not the type to demand anything especially when the other party isn't at fault.

Had I been the one responsible for purchasing the stone, I would've done my homework. I would have posted on websites like this and inquired about feedback, critique, etc. I would've long ago discovered HCA ratings, learned about them and would have never ever considered purchasing a stone if I could not see it with my own eyes first.

But unfortunately, I was not the one proposing to myself. So, it's unfortunate. The only thing that I can hope for is for the jeweler to be understanding- and even if that doesn't happen, well there are more important things to be concerned about in the world. If anything, I just hope that others who are shopping for rocks out there will see my post and learn something from it without having to pay $$ for the lesson.

 

[Rubymal]

I don’t think they should go in there demanding anything...but on the other hand I do think if they are too soft then the jeweler will think they will just go away...I would go in and be pleasant..and be prepared to be a little firmer in your request for an exchange. A good jeweler will explain all the pros and cons when explaining to a young man or woman looking for guidance in buying a diamond for their soon to be fiancé. The jeweler recommended this stone and I feel he was just trying to make the sale without giving her fiancé guidance. It sounds like this is a very small store because they didn’t have any diamonds in the store...There must be something the jeweler can do at this point to help but he has to be motivated to do it. If he thinks they will just put their tails between their legs and leave..then he won’t be motivated to help. If the couple acts pleasant but they don’t look like they will leave easily he may try harder to help. They may have to pay a difference in prices or go down in size....and they should act thankful considering it’s late in the game. ..but I don’t think any vendor here would have sold that diamond to that man without explaining what he was purchasing.

Thanks, Mamabean. The only guidance the jeweler gave to my fiance was that "this is a very good stone for the price and the GIA report looks great." My fiance decided to "defer to the professional." Keeping in mind, we also purchased my setting through this jeweler which was not cheap (almost a $5k setting) and expressed that we would return when we were ready to begin looking at wedding bands.

 

[MamaBee]

Thanks, Mamabean. The only guidance the jeweler gave to my fiance was that "this is a very good stone for the price and the GIA report looks great." My fiance decided to "defer to the professional." Keeping in mind, we also purchased my setting through this jeweler which was not cheap (almost a $5k setting) and expressed that we would return when we were ready to begin looking at wedding bands.

In my mind he wasn’t telling the truth...The GIA report does not look great..I still think he took advantage of your fiancé because he didn’t have any other diamonds and there was only one diamond left from the two he ordered..He told your fiancé it was great..He misrepresented...to make the sale..Shame on him..I am praying he will do what he can..You’re right..There are worse things in the world but you should love your ring. I feel for you because I have children and this makes me mad..and I don’t get mad that easily..My son got great guidance when he went looking for my daughter-in-law’s ring. Your fiancé should have had that experience.

 

[ringo865]

And with a five thousand dollar setting, that stone should be the bomb!

 

[junebug17]

Is it bad that I'm clinging to the very slight hope that the diamond might be dirty? @Rubymal, I really hope the jeweler is willing to work with you on this! You seem like a very nice person and I want you to have a diamond you love.

 

[lovedogs]

And with a five thousand dollar setting, that stone should be the bomb!

Is it a designer setting (looks like verragio)? Because if not, it's also extremely overpriced. Seems like the jeweler was not a good vendor for a newbie who didn't do his research

 

[OcnGypZ]

Just one look at the GIA report tells you that it is not a good stone at any price. The jeweler knew exactly what he was doing. For shame.

 

[MamaBee]

Is it a designer setting (looks like verragio)? Because if not, it's also extremely overpriced. Seems like the jeweler was not a good vendor for a newbie who didn't do his research

It’s a very beautiful setting though..

 

[Rubymal]

Is it bad that I'm clinging to the very slight hope that the diamond might be dirty? @Rubymal, I really hope the jeweler is willing to work with you on this! You seem like a very nice person and I want you to have a diamond you love.

Thank you so much, Junebug. My first thought too was maybe it's just super dirty! Either way, they want to clean it first and I will of course be on board with that.

 

[Rubymal]

Is it a designer setting (looks like verragio)? Because if not, it's also extremely overpriced. Seems like the jeweler was not a good vendor for a newbie who didn't do his research

Hey, yes it is a verragio. I think the starting price was around $3.9k but we opted to go with platinum which drove the price up. We purchased through them because they were working with a Verragio rep and she brought this design which I hadn't seen online nor seen at other stores we visited. The hefty price tag is even after a discount from the event.

 

[lovedogs]

Hey, yes it is a verragio. I think the starting price was around $3.9k but we opted to go with platinum which drove the price up. We purchased through them because they were working with a Verragio rep and she brought this design which I hadn't seen online nor seen at other stores we visited. The hefty price tag is even after a discount from the event.

Gotcha. For PLAT and because it's a designer setting the price is more reasonable than I was thinking originally. It's certainly beautiful (hope my words didn't come off as disliking the setting!) I just wanted to make sure your FI wasn't horribly overcharged for the setting as well.

 

[doberman]

It's really strange that it has no fluorescence because its milkiness would suggest that it does. Have you tested it under UV light?

Your fiance should be polite yet firm, and indicate that he would gladly do more shopping there if was able to exchange the ring.

 

[MamaBee]

Please let us know what happens...Fingers and toes crossed!

 

[OcnGypZ]

It's really strange that it has no fluorescence because its milkiness would suggest that it does. Have you tested it under UV light?

Your fiance should be polite yet firm, and indicate that he would gladly do more shopping there if was able to exchange the ring.

The stone has clouds and graining which cause the milkiness. Add in all the rest of the plotted inclusions.....it's a mess.

 

[sledge]

This is a tough one. Agree you probably have limited options because of the gap in time between purchase and proposal.

What angers me is the jeweler is a professional in diamonds and knew damn well what he was selling you, so IMO he preyed on tour fiancee's ignorance. I use this term not as an insulting term but because he was simply uneducated and unaware of what to buy.



The above proportions is a warning sign. But really just being a decent human and advising the inclusions would likely cause a concern would have been the right thing to do.



I know the past is the past, but I so wish you had found this site BEFOFE the purchase. This is why I stay here, in hopes to help and educate those that dont know better so this doesn't happen. Unfortunately as the Sonic commercial goes, you don't know what you don't know.

While this jeweler may be off the hook according to his policies, I hope he has a good enough conscious to understand the disappointment he has caused and will step up to do the right thing.

If you are out of time I would make a strong case to his emotions in hopes you can sway him. If he agrees to do so that will likely be the least expensive and least painful way out of this mess.

I truly am very sorry.

 

[yssie]

This is a tough one. Agree you probably have limited options because of the gap in time between purchase and proposal.

What angers me is the jeweler is a professional in diamonds and knew damn well what he was selling you, so IMO he preyed on tour fiancee's ignorance. I use this term not as an insulting term but because he was simply uneducated and unaware of what to buy.



The above proportions is a warning sign. But really just being a decent human and advising the inclusions would likely cause a concern would have been the right thing to do.



I know the past is the past, but I so wish you had found this site BEFOFE the purchase. This is why I stay here, in hopes to help and educate those that dont know better so this doesn't happen. Unfortunately as the Sonic commercial goes, you don't know what you don't know.

While this jeweler may be off the hook according to his policies, I hope he has a good enough conscious to understand the disappointment he has caused and will step up to do the right thing.

If you are out of time I would make a strong case to his emotions in hopes you can sway him. If he agrees to do so that will likely be the least expensive and least painful way out of this mess.

I truly am very sorry.

I disagree wholeheartedly.

PS is a microcosm. It’s a microcosm of blind chart- and tool-happy fanaticism.

Doesn't score <2 on HCA? Garbage.
Doesn't fit EX/0 GIA and AGS proportions charts? Garbage.
Doesn't meet those wretched "cheat sheet" specs? Garbage.
Doesn't have big chunky symmetric facets? Garbage.

In reality, of course, much of this "garbage" is perfectly lovely. There is nothing above the proportions on this stone that should serve as a warning sign to anyone but followers of blind chart- and tool-happy fanaticism - by the numbers this could be a perfectly beautiful stone, and the inclusions could well have been nothing to write home about.

Diamonds are visual spectacles. They need to be bought using the eyes... and the eyes need to be trained a little to identify what they do and do not like. The report was never intended to be the primary medium of purchase - it was meant to supplement an in-person viewing. PS "blindness" is inevitable and understandable, as of course we don't have anything but photos and numbers to work with, but to suggest that our tools and charts and graphs and plots should take precedence over what the eyes appreciate is misleading at best, counterproductive at worst.

OP's FI failed to do his due diligence in this in-person viewing; I cannot find sympathy for anyone but OP in this situation. Hopefully her vendor will understand that what she is looking for is not what her FI was satisfied with originally.

It's really strange that it has no fluorescence because its milkiness would suggest that it does. Have you tested it under UV light?

Where on earth is this suggestion coming from? The GIA article that's created this long-lived furor over fluorescence and cloudiness takes pains not to create causal association between these two phenomena. Here is the article:
https://beyond4cs.com/wp-content/up...luorescence-on-the-Appearance-of-Diamonds.pdf

Blue fluorescence is created by complexes of three nitrogens (and one empty void) randomly substituting for four carbons in the diamond crystal lattice. The more the number of substitutions, the stronger the effects of fluorescence in that stone. Since the substitutions are random they'll be universally dispersed through the stone - not deliberately concentrated in any one part of the stone.

Visible fluoro itself is the result of long-wave UV rays exciting electrons, which then emit photons (visible blue wavelengths) as they de-excite back to ground state. The initial excitation requires long-wave UV - present in sunlight but not office light, for instance, so the effects of fluorescence will not be visible under office lights. The more the number of nitrogen complexes present, the more the number of these excitable electrons, the more the concentration of visible blue wavelengths in any given area of the stone as they return to the lower energy state - and since the nitrogen complexes are distributed throughout the stone the visible blue wavelengths are emitted uniformly from all parts of the stone.

None of this has anything to do with "milkiness", "haziness", "cloudiness", etc.

 

[Rubymal]

Hey all, im at the jeweler right now and the only option he is giving me are two EGL diamonds he has in the store. The difference i need to pay is either 5k or 1.8k (the 1.8 one has visible inclusions to the eye but better clarity than my original stone.)

 

[Rubymal]

He also will not share the EGL numbers with me. The 5k replacement stone is color D and the other is color G, but again they are both EGL this would be the amount we would pay after trading in the original 8k stone. They are 1.2 and 1.28 carat respectively.

 

[lovedogs]

He also will not share the EGL numbers with me. The 5k replacement stone is color D and the other is color G, but again they are both EGL this would be the amount we would pay after trading in the original 8k stone. They are 1.2 and 1.28 carat respectively.

I'm sorry, but I wouldn't give this clown any more money. This is shady, and EGL stones are almost never a good idea. I'm sorry

 

[lovedogs]

Hey all, im at the jeweler right now and the only option he is giving me are two EGL diamonds he has in the store. The difference i need to pay is either 5k or 1.8k (the 1.8 one has visible inclusions to the eye but better clarity than my original stone.)

9.8k for a 1.2 EGL stone is absurd. 13k is even more insane. This guy is ripping you guys off big-time.

 

[Rubymal]

Ugh, actually his manager apparebtly just told us that he cant even give us the 1.8k trade in because trade ins are only allowed if the stone is double the value of the last. So now hes saying my only option now is to pay the 5k +tax which brings me up to 6k for an EGL diamond that he cant even share the numbrr with me.

 

[lovedogs]

Ugh, actually his manager apparebtly just told us that he cant even give us the 1.8k trade in because trade ins are only allowed if the stone is double the value of the last. So now hes saying my only option now is to pay the 5k +tax which brings me up to 6k for an EGL diamond that he cant even share the numbrr with me.

No no no no. Just no. That's 6k on top of the 8 already spent. You are just throwing more money down the drain. Don't do it. Just walk away. You can upgrade your stone down the line with a reputable vendor. But don't give this store more money to sell you another crappy stone.

 

[anangel]

@lovedogs is right. Don’t throw good money after bad.
At the end of the day, the diamond is just a pretty little pebble to wear on your finger. It really stinks that you FH over paid, and it’s not a crystal clear diamond with amazing performance, but don’t let that spoil the joy of your engagement.
We live, we learn, we grow, and if we’re really lucky, we do it all with good company

 

[Rubymal]

Thank you for your kind words, all. I just walked away from the store. I was about to pay the 5/6k because the new stone looked so much more clear than mine. But then I thought to myself that I can get a perfectly good GIA stone online for 5/6k. I attached a photo of my stone against the absurdly expensive EGL ones (the one on the right would've actually costed an additional 11k for me to replace. That was way out of my budget so I passed on that).

We are on our way home now, but I've made the decision that I want to replace the stone and pay for it myself and let my fiance do whatever he wants with the milky one. I'll be scouring james Allen and white flash tonight for any prospective replacements.

 

[lovedogs]

The one on the right is heavily included, and the one in the middle is like L/M/N color (by the looks of it). SO HAPPY you didn't give him more money. You can find a much better stone for 5/6K, and we can help you!

 

[lovedogs]

PS. Can you remind me how big the original stone is (mm measurements)? And what your budget is? Is it the 5-6K you mentioned?

 

[Rubymal]

Thank you,love dogs! Just knowing I have good people here willing to help makes me feel so much better. I did leave the parking lot in tears while lecturing my fiance to always do his hw and research. But its all in the past now. He and I both have learned a lesson from this.

My little milky is 1.3c, but i think the jeweler mentioned that a 1.2 would fit as well. And yes, I can swing around 5/6k for a new one. My wedding cake might lose a tier though

 

[Rubymal]

Oh, I think someone posted the GIA measurements of my stone up above. I'll double check the report tonight too when I'm home.

 

[kmoro]

Ugh, actually his manager apparebtly just told us that he cant even give us the 1.8k trade in because trade ins are only allowed if the stone is double the value of the last. So now hes saying my only option now is to pay the 5k +tax which brings me up to 6k for an EGL diamond that he cant even share the numbrr with me.

Wow - this is so sad. So they are making you stick with their upgrade policy and then make you achieve the upgrade policy requirements by overpricing their crappy “upgrades.” And the jeweller is seriously telling you that you can’t see the certificate or even have it after the upgrade? Is he a member of BBB? A jewellers association? Because I would seriously complain.

The law is “buyer beware,” but if he refuses to disclose relevant information, he makes it impossible for you to be a diligent buyer. This means that legally he may not be required to do anything about the original purchase, but it’s not ok for him to prevent you from knowing what you are getting as an upgrade.

I hope that there is some organization to which you can complain and that it will result in a good outcome - as in a full refund of the diamond cost or a GIA/AGS graded diamond that you like. You may not have any legal recourse with the original purchase, but I think you have a right to complain about his lack of disclosure when it comes to the upgrade.

I’m really sorry that this has happened to you and your FI. I hope that this ends up being resolved in a happy way. In the meantime, I hope you still enjoy your ring - it is still beautiful and the center stone still sparkles, right? “Cloudy shmoudy” until you have a good opportunity to upgrade, I say, lol.

And most of all, congratulations on your engagement!!!!