A 4th baby?

[glitterata]

Date: 5/26/2006 4:46:40 PM
Author: Milly

Date: 5/26/2006 3:28:06 PM

Author: glitterata

I just think about the billions of people on the planet. There are way, way, way too many people as it is, and the more we reproduce, the more we use resources and destroy ecosystems. We need to leave a little room for the plants and animals and microbes. They have just as much right to be here as we do.


My husband and I are doing our bit for the planet by not having kids.

WHOA! I think that is a little extreme.

Maybe. And I don't think nobody should have any children. But I think when a couple already has 3--which is more than the number that would replace the two of them--it's worth thinking about the effect of overpopulation. Just one consideration among many.

I have nothing personally against Carrie or her family. I'm sure they're lovely people, and I'm sure if she had a fourth child it will bring great joy. I have nothing against any particular people, in fact. I like people! I even like children! But in absolute terms, there really are way too many of us on the planet, using way too many resources.

Edited to add: I really admire people like Diamondseeker, who adopt children who are already born and need parents. I think that's a great solution.

 

[Mara]

Date: 5/26/2006 4:46:40 PM
Author: Milly

Date: 5/26/2006 3:28:06 PM
Author: glitterata
I just think about the billions of people on the planet. There are way, way, way too many people as it is, and the more we reproduce, the more we use resources and destroy ecosystems. We need to leave a little room for the plants and animals and microbes. They have just as much right to be here as we do.

My husband and I are doing our bit for the planet by not having kids.

WHOA! I think that is a little extreme.

While we may decide to have a child or two...I do think that the world is overpopulated to begin with. Knowing that won't make or break our decision, but it's a valid thought, even though it may not be popular, especially for those with children.

It's interesting though because in the 'old days' marriage was for procreation. So that the human race could live on. But now there are so many people...and marriage is no longer for procreation. I actually find viewpoints like glitter's quite interesting, because I think it's bred into humans to still be geared towards the whole procreation thing...and to not want to be a part of that is always considered odd.

 

[hlmr]

Date: 5/26/2006 4:56:13 PM
Author: Mara

Date: 5/26/2006 4:46:40 PM
Author: Milly

Date: 5/26/2006 3:28:06 PM
Author: glitterata
I just think about the billions of people on the planet. There are way, way, way too many people as it is, and the more we reproduce, the more we use resources and destroy ecosystems. We need to leave a little room for the plants and animals and microbes. They have just as much right to be here as we do.

My husband and I are doing our bit for the planet by not having kids.

WHOA! I think that is a little extreme.

While we may decide to have a child or two...I do think that the world is overpopulated to begin with. Knowing that won''t make or break our decision, but it''s a valid thought, even though it may not be popular, especially for those with children.

It''s interesting though because in the ''old days'' marriage was for procreation. So that the human race could live on. But now there are so many people...and marriage is no longer for procreation. I actually find viewpoints like glitter''s quite interesting, because I think it''s bred into humans to still be geared towards the whole procreation thing...and to not want to be a part of that is always considered odd.

Very interesting!! I am actually of the mind that this planet would be much better off without human beings at all as we are destroying it for the rest of the living species but I don''t expect that anyone else should believe what I believe.

When I talk about this my husband just goes

We are constantly evolving and when we deplete the planet of the natural resources we use at present, we will have already moved on to something else. Species adapt or they perish. Being at the top of the food chain means we have a lot of responsibility. Unfortunately we are not very responsible.

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I am another victim of secondary infertility (there seem to be quite a few of us on this board). I never would have chosen to only have one child but I am so very lucky that I even had him. I do think life would be better for him with sibling(s). Less material things but more people to love. I wish I could have had at least one more. I always said I would have four as I came from a family of three and I like even numbers much better. Many years of ferility drugs, surgical procedures, and miscarriages have left me in awe of woman who can get pregnant and have children with relative ease.

I think each couple must choose what is right for them and you must both be on board with the decision. How you feel about having a fourth child today may be quite different in a year from now.
Good luck with your decision.

 

[galeteia]

Date: 5/26/2006 5:24:04 PM
Author: hlmr

I am another victim of secondary infertility (there seem to be quite a few of us on this board). I never would have chosen to only have one child but I am so very lucky that I even had him. I do think life would be better for him with sibling(s). Less material things but more people to love. I wish I could have had at least one more. I always said I would have four as I came from a family of three and I like even numbers much better. Many years of ferility drugs, surgical procedures, and miscarriages have left me in awe of woman who can get pregnant and have children with relative ease.

It always amazes me how often it seems that couples who desperately DO want children have difficulty conceiving, but couples who DON'T want them get pregnant at the drop of a hat, contraception and all!

I really wonder about that. I personally don't know anyone who is happily unexpectedly pregnant, and I know a few who are devastated by the struggle to get pregnant.

I am sizing up the polluted enviroments we live in with increasing suspicion. Infertility seems to be running rampant.

And lastly, I agree that we are facing overpopulation. With the all the invances in modern medicine, you know longer have to have 10 births just to have 1 grown child. I respect Glitterata's decision not to have children. Having children isn't for everyone.

 

[Mara]

So true Galat...I often wonder about the same thing (those who desperately want children often have trouble and those who don''t or aren''t sure have no troubles) but I guess that everything is for a reason? Or that''s what is easiest to believe anyway.

One of my fears is that if we do decide to have kids then what if we find out we can''t? I try not to think about it!

 

[FireGoddess]

Date: 5/26/2006 6:08:50 PM
Author: Galateia
It always amazes me how often it seems that couples who desperately DO want children have difficulty conceiving, but couples who DON''T want them get pregnant at the drop of a hat, contraception and all!

I have experienced this with friends several times....couples that desperately want a child and would be great parents having the hardest time conceiving....and a couple in particular that really shouldn''t be having kids (they seem to have their own problems independent of adding any kids to the mix)....had one by accident and conceived a SECOND by accident a few months later.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 5/26/2006 3:28:06 PM
Author: glitterata
I just think about the billions of people on the planet. There are way, way, way too many people as it is, and the more we reproduce, the more we use resources and destroy ecosystems. We need to leave a little room for the plants and animals and microbes. They have just as much right to be here as we do.

My husband and I are doing our bit for the planet by not having kids.

i think you need to have a talk with those peoples in China,Africa,Mexico and India.

 

[tawn]

Date: 5/26/2006 6:08:50 PM
Author: Galateia

It always amazes me how often it seems that couples who desperately DO want children have difficulty conceiving, but couples who DON''T want them get pregnant at the drop of a hat, contraception and all!

There is a sick joke among infertile women, about how our odds of conception would be so much better if only we were crackwhores or unwed teenagers! Sad...but sometimes it seems true!

Someone mentioned that if you already been lucky enough to have children, that you shouldn''t miss that ones you "couldn''t" have...but you do! Heartbreaking so...as many of us here seem to have discovered!

 

[cutes814]

I don''t think not wanting children is odd at all. That is a very personal choice. I respect glitter''s decision for not wanting to have children. It was the comment about us humans using resources and destroying ecosystems because we are reproducing that seemed kinda

. We all do our part in using up the planet''s resources, but her post made me feel like we are indecent for having children. Having children or NOT having children is a very natural thing. It''s okay either way for whatever reasons the couple decides.

If we really want to save the planet, we should be doing it in other ways than tell people not to have children. I don''t think I should have to feel bad because I want to reproduce, but from glitter''s initial post, that''s what I felt, so I just stated it was a little extreme. No hard feelings.

 

[glitterata]

Milly, I''m sure if I met your children, I would be very glad you''d had them! I just think that when someone already has several and is weighing the decision to have more, overpopulation is something to think about. I''m sorry it sounded harsh the way I put it.

Also, I''m glad not everybody in the world made the same decision my husband and I made. I do think there are currently too many people here--but that doesn''t mean I want there to be none.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I would just also like to mention that there are thousands and thousands of babies lying in orphanages in second and third world countries who soooo need the love of a mother and father. I have been blessed to have both birth and adopted children. It just breaks my heart that there are babies just waiting...some of whom won''t live and many others will never know the love of a mother.

 

[monarch64]

Date: 5/26/2006 6:25:14 PM
Author: Mara
So true Galat...I often wonder about the same thing (those who desperately want children often have trouble and those who don''t or aren''t sure have no troubles) but I guess that everything is for a reason? Or that''s what is easiest to believe anyway.

One of my fears is that if we do decide to have kids then what if we find out we can''t? I try not to think about it!

Wow, Mara, that is one of my biggest fears. So many of our friends have had great success in conceiving and bearing children, and we are one of the only married couples left it seems who''ve not even started trying for a child. Even though we are on the fence from time to time about when to start a family, I get so worried that we won''t even be able to when the time is right for us. The thought gets put on hold due to other circumstances in life, but every few months we kind of re-negotiate what our plan is...and I find myself worrying once again that we are getting too old...I read the statistics and am not comforted at all. That''s why it seems so sad to me that so many people end up with unwanted pregnancies and children.

 

[DonaBella]

I just wanted to mention that I did not go into marriage planning to have a large family. Both DH and I came from families with four kids. We agreed to have 4 kids ourselves and despite birth control pills and other methods proven to work for others, I had additional surprise pregnancies. I appreciate the views of others stated here, whether it was not for them to choose to be parents at all or to adopt or to adopt and give birth to a child or two.

Parenthood should not be something one does without realizing the level of commitment one makes. Of course anything worth having--like helping to raise another soul into adulthood as stable as possible--takes alot of commitment, work, and there is no room for selfishness. I love my sleep, but rarely do I get to sleep in cuz even now, someone needs me. Do I regret being a mom overall? No way!

As already stated here, be mindful that whether you have one child or a houseful, someone will ALWAYS have an opinion about what you have chosen to do...so listen nicely like I have learned to do over the years and let it go in one ear and out the other!

Believe me...being the mom of 9 kids, I get scrutinized all the time, quizzed, criticized and chastized for having alot of kids. I respect others views, but I nor anyone else needs to stand still and take it. I am always graceful about it and allow what others will say to roll off my back.

In today''s world, any family with more than 3 kids is considered worthy of a doubletake. You can only imagine how people look at me with my brood when the entire gang goes out to dinner! Had I not had so many kids naturally, I would have adopted and had planned on it all along. My DH''s mom was a foster mom for years and told me of what a special experience that was so it pumped me up for adoption. Since we ended up with such a large brood, its not in the cards now, but heck, I encourage my kids to think adoption as they approach dating and marriageable ages.

 

[cutes814]

Date: 5/27/2006 12:22:05 AM
Author: diamondseeker2006
I would just also like to mention that there are thousands and thousands of babies lying in orphanages in second and third world countries who soooo need the love of a mother and father. I have been blessed to have both birth and adopted children. It just breaks my heart that there are babies just waiting...some of whom won''t live and many others will never know the love of a mother.

Diamondseeker, I agree. That is so very sad. I belong to a charity in which I pay monthly to provide for a child in Kenya. It breaks my heart to see so many children being brought into the world that way.

Glitter, your last post made me understand your point much more clearly. Thanks for clarifying that up. It''s interesting to see people''s thoughts here.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 5/27/2006 5:30:35 PM
Author: Milly

Date: 5/27/2006 12:22:05 AM
Author: diamondseeker2006
I would just also like to mention that there are thousands and thousands of babies lying in orphanages in second and third world countries who soooo need the love of a mother and father. I have been blessed to have both birth and adopted children. It just breaks my heart that there are babies just waiting...some of whom won''t live and many others will never know the love of a mother.

Diamondseeker, I agree. That is so very sad. I belong to a charity in which I pay monthly to provide for a child in Kenya. It breaks my heart to see so many children being brought into the world that way.

Glitter, your last post made me understand your point much more clearly. Thanks for clarifying that up. It''s interesting to see people''s thoughts here.

Milly, that is certainly a valid and important way to help! If anyone else is interested, the oldest international adoption agency, Holt International, is one that has a sopnsorship program. We adopted through a different agency, but we sponsor through them because they are totally trustworthy and work for children''s best interest.

 

[moremoremore]

I just kind of see having a lot of kids, in some situations, as taking away (of course not love) material things you could give to your one or two children...Not that that is all that's important...but it is nice to be "comfortable"... I just wouldn't want to have more than two for that reason...I would want my kid to have the best of everything I could afford...not spoiling them...but in terms of education, my time and attention, etc...and not have to struggle. In my neighborhood, which has a lot of diff cultures and ethnicities, I see these poor people having all these kids and part of me thinks it's irresponsible and selfish...NOT that that is you....But I look at it as, what I could give to 4 or five kids, I will give to two...Again, that includes time and energy and attention...and of course material things...Anyhoo...I told hubby that if I have one, the other is being adopted from Poland.

 

[upgrading mama]

There is just something so amazing and bonding about having a child with your spouse. This is truly something made of the two of you, there is nothing on earth like it, and life is never the same.

Just to play a little bit of devil''s advocate here.....for those of us who are not too interested in kids and in helping the environment and population, etc...couldn''t the money that is spent on luxuries, ie....diamond sparklies...be spent to on something to help???

I know that is a loadad question and I am not trying to start WW 3, but I just had to put it out there.

 

[Allisonfaye]

I got married late in life at 39. I had never been pregnant before and wondered if I could even get pregnant. DH and I had a daughter and I kind of always thought that she would be our only one. So when she was around 10 months after we moved into our new house, we started talking about having another. I honestly didn''t think he would want one more. I was a little afraid to mention it for fear he would say no. I honestly wasn''t sure that I wanted to do it again so soon. But being 40, I figured we either had to try right away because it could take a while to get pregnant or just not have any more. I was also very worried about a health problem of another child.

The thing that shoved me over the edge was the night that I asked my husband if he wanted another and he said ''do you''? It was like both of us would have if the other wanted to and we wouldn''t if the other didn''t. I couldn''t have done it if he wasn''t on board 100%.

We rolled the dice and had another wonderful daughter and I couldn''t imagine life without her. I don''t think you are crazy for wanting another. Babies are wonderful and they totally suck you in. But I understand your husband''s point of view too. They are a ton of work.

I am not sure how old you are, but is it possible that you can revisit the issue a bit later and maybe your husband will change his mind?

 

[hlmr]

Allisonfaye - you are truly blessed.

 

[Allisonfaye]

Date: 5/27/2006 10:38:50 PM
Author: hlmr
Allisonfaye - you are truly blessed.

Thanks. I know this and say a little prayer of thanks every day.

 

[diamondfan]

I think, again, it is such a personal journey. I have the utmost respect for couples who know and decide they simply do not want to have kids. I think one can have a great life without having them. I did want them and I had them. If you want them and can do it, great. If you do not, great, but people can be very weird about someone flatly stating their lack of deisre for kids. I get it, and do not get offended, but sometimes people think it odd and lacking somehow. The problem to me, and what makes me sad is the people who want them and cannot have them for some reason. To each his own, and while overpopulation and depletion of resources is worrisome to me (and I try to do my part) I still wanted kids. I do wish kids in bad circumstances could be adopted, but knowing some people who have tried, it is not as easy as one would think. Good luck in your decision, I just think either way it will work out the way it is intended to ...

 

[lizz]

My husband is from a family of four kids, and my MIL told me that she doesn't know how they ever thought that they could raise that many kids, that they didn't know what the heck they were doing. She said she used to lock them all in a room together and just have them work things out when things got too chaotic. And she's the most easygoing, patient person I know. There are 9 years between the oldest and the youngest.

It's up to you, but I'm like Mara. I am not sure I even want to have one!

 

[Gypsy]

Yeah. Okay. I'm with Milly.

We don't want kids, personally. Not planning to have any.

But this isn't the thread for airing out political views. Just inappropriate IMO.

ETA: okay... read the explaination of Glitterata's (sorry if I mispelled that) views. I understand where the comment came from. But still feel it was inappropriate.

 

[february2003bride]

Mara: Do we really need a fourth? No, we were actually happy with just two but in January 2005 when DS#1 was 14 months old, I wasn''t feeling well, a couple of days late, took a test and hello DS#2! We became a family of five in September 2005. Having a family is both an emotional, physical and financial burden but it''s an amazing joy and wonderful life changing experience as well. Funny thing is, I never thought I would have a large family. I''m just not ready to close that door yet. I''m not saying I have to have another baby, like, our family wouldn''t be complete with out one more. But I want to keep the option open!


Allycat: I had DD before I met DH, so we became the "instant" family when he and I got married. We knew we wanted 1 more and started trying right away after we got married. 9 months later, DS#1 was born! We felt out family was done until I had found out I was preggo again when DS#1 was 14 months old. The best laid plans aren''t always set in stone and I now can''t imagine life with out my 3 kiddos!

Tacori: His objections are pretty strong. While he adores our 3 kids, he wants to move beyond the baby phase. He wants to know 100% that he can provide a comfortable life for the children we have and feels that a 4th could stretch that. He would never resent a baby, he wasn''t loving the idea of baby #3 but life hands you a new deck of cards and you deal ''em and he adores DS#2 as much as our other two children. He''s a wonderful dad

It is sweet he wants to spend more time with me. I feel the same way! I definitely don''t want to be one of the couples that drops their last kid off at college and looks at each other and says "hello stranger!" but I know us and I know our marriage and I just don''t see that happening...

Diamondfan: That''s so funny you use the word "delicious" tp describe yoru kids- that''s how I describe them too! There are days where I think that I could just eat those chubby chunky cheeks! My children are nearly drowned in kisses. I know someday that it''ll stop so I try to get the kisses and hugs in as much as I can!

Scintillating: You pretty much hit the nail on the head with how we feel, especially DH. He wants to be able to give our children the time, attention, patience, financial stability, and college education that we feel they deserve. And he worries a fouth would just make that string stretch to far and break. I understand but then I say, I''m at home with the kids and I know how much I can handle. I''m not saying right now have a baby but in 1-2 or even 3 years time, it''ll be different. DS#1 will be in preschool, DS#2 will be walking and talking. DD will almost be done with elementary school. I would not want to have another baby and that make life worse for our children.

Pearcrazy: That''s how DH feels; enough with diapers, the high chair, middle of the night feedings (even though all our kids have been breastfed so it''s ME who''s getting up

), monthly pediatrician visits, etc. He loves that DD is 9 and can get ready on her own, is in school, buckles herself into her booster seat, etc. We would have to be 100% agreement on another baby.

Deanna: thank you so much for sharing your story! How blessed you are to have such a large family! DH has a lot of patience (not as much as me but he still has a lot), love and is hands on dad. He''s also extremely committed to his work and I know he feels guilty that with traveling, and his work schedule that he''d love to have more time with the kids and me. But I still can''t shake that "I''m not done" feeling... I turn 29 this week so we DO have some time on our side should we wait 2 or 3 years.

 

[february2003bride]

Part Gypsy: I had to go to Babies R Us today and that is such a bad bad place for me to go because 1)I spend way to much money there and 2) Everyone woman there is preggo! I know the baby urges start up when I see a waddling woman and think "Aw, I miss that!", lol. That is definitely something to think about; if something happened to DH, could I handle raising 4 kids by myself?

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 5/29/2006 10:35:49 PM
Author: february2003bride
Part Gypsy: I had to go to Babies R Us today and that is such a bad bad place for me to go because 1)I spend way to much money there and 2) Everyone woman there is preggo! I know the baby urges start up when I see a waddling woman and think ''Aw, I miss that!'', lol. That is definitely something to think about; if something happened to DH, could I handle raising 4 kids by myself?

This is a really big piece of the equation, and you''re in the (smart) minority to even think about it. It happens, and it''s harder than you can imagine.

My friend died last year at 45 from cancer; he left behind a 36 y.o. wife with 3 kids.....5 years, 3 years, and 5 mos. She has to handle this *alone*. The word "hard" doesn''t even begin to scratch the surface of how these past 10 months have been.

Like you, she is a stay at home mom, and she''s trying to be able to maintain that long enough so the kids don''t feel they are losing something else. I don''t know how she does it, but she does. But down the line, there will be hard choices to make about when to go back to work, etc.

 

[sanfranciscoellen]

Hiya febbride!

Boy do I hear you on this. We have three (7, 4 and newly 1) and were done with two. Gave everything away, etc. I knew he only wanted two, and respected the strength of his feelings enough to not even consider whether or not I wanted a third. But then the dope had the gall to say, "Sometimes I can imgine a third" when our youngest was two. And hearing that got my hopes up, made me think about it, made me want one. But, of course, he freaked out when he saw me getting excited and it took a full year for us to get together on this decision. And the only reason we did, to tell you the truth, is that his dear boss (who has three) told him two things 1) it''s worth the work and we''d have more if we could have and 2) to give in because when a mom has her sights set on a baby no one will stop her.

I don''t believe that, but for me, I think it was true. I was set. And he was "less set", so he was the one who had to give. Now he does that same silly thing of, "How could I not have wanted this?"

I could imagine wanting another. Even he has agreed that in a different life, not in a small flat in a city, we''d have more. But we always say that on GOOD days, and you know what I mean

We are done.

BUT as much as I agree with just about everyone''s different valid points, I do have to say something. I lived in India several times, and now I live in the very wealthy city of San Francisco. And some of the saddest kids I have ever met are the ones with everything...two parents, two kids, huge house, vacations, just the right schools....but daddy is gone 5 nights a week doing mergers and acquisitions for his investment bank. Mommy is harried from running a house with two nannies, a maid, the gardener, or working, or volunteering, or at worst lunching and being emotionally unavailable because of an unhappy marriage. These kids have everything they could ever want, except for a family that is AVAILABLE. Their parents love them, are trying to do right by their kids, I don''t doubt it. But don''t assume that providing kids with these "benefits" really helps them.....sometimes is does the opposite.

Some of the happiest people, best marriages, closest siblings, most laughter I have ever witnessed was with some of these people that many would look down on as "poor ignorant people with TOO MANY KIDS." Well, unintentional large families in developing countries can be a big problem. But so can unhappy priviledged kids that plunder far more of the earth''s resources in their lifetime than many families put together in India.

Just playing devil''s advocate

 

[asscherisme]

Wallermama, Wow, you are SO right. I live in a wealthy suburb as well and it sickens me to see how much waste and money is spent on children. All 4 of my kids have less toys combined than many of the only children friends or friends who have only one sibling has. It amazed me how much STUFF people buy their kids. I will admit we have a very large house . Perhaps even considered a "McMansion". However, with the large house I have to say my kids are NOT spoiled in the least. And I teach the value of money and about not waste etc from a very young age. I am a stay at home mom of my 4 kids. We could easily afford to buy our kids lots and lots of toys but I think that does a disservice to the kids. I think that spoiling them and buying them everything they "THINK" they want does them a huge disservice in live.

And some of the unhappiest women I know are the ones who drive Lexus or BMW SUVs, have the 3 or 4 carat diamond rings, a different $500 plus handbag each time you see them, $200 hair cuts, designer clothes etc. But you can just sense they are not happy. Oh and the live in nannys even though they are stay at home mom. That is a big trend where I live. The stay at home moms have live in nannys so they can spend their days going for hair appointments, meeting with their personal trainer, go shopping, and have kid free lunches with their friends.

OK, I got off topic there.

I have thought about what if something happens to my husband could I handle it. I have thought of that a lot. I have no real family other than my husband and kids. Lost my parents a while ago.

We do have a lot of term life insurance on my husband because it is very important to both of us if he should die I can still be home with the kids. The kids would need me more than even and if they lost their dad we would not want to add to the trauma that we would lose our house and they would be in daycare or with a babysitter. So we have enought life insurance so I could keep our house with the mortgage payed off, stay home with the kids still, and have enough to send them all 4 of them to college plus put some into retirment for myself so I am never aburdon on our kids because I would have lost out on income while the kids are little. I hope he does not die for a long long time but I think when you have children you need to think of those things.

Would it be difficult, YES. Would I be devastated, YES. But could I do it and be strong for my kids, YES, I would have no choice but to do it.

 

[KristyDarling]

This is such a personal decision, but I can see how it might help to hear about other people''s situations and experiences.

So I''ll just share what we''ve been through. My son will be 3 in a few weeks and my daughter is 16 months old. They are our treasures and we had to work very hard for them (fertility issues). There was a point when we thought we''d NEVER have kids, and were psychologically preparing ourselves for a childless life. But things worked out and now we can''t believe how lucky we are to have not one, but two! We''ve been grappling with the idea of trying for a 3rd, but time, energy, and cost are what''s keeping us from taking the plunge. Unlike some moms, I really, really, REALLY loathed the newborn days. Both kids were colicky and I was going on 2 hours/sleep per day for the first 4 months with both kids....I was downright miserable and beyond exhausted. I just don''t want to go through newborn hell again. So, we feel like we''ve "earned" our right to sleep through the night, FINALLY, and to have another newborn now would be like going back to square one! And we really miss our pre-children luxuries such as getting regular exercise, going out to dinner, taking nice vacations, etc. Our kids are wonderful but, man, so was our freedom!

Plus, having a third baby would push back our retirement by that many years. A slightly selfish thought, perhaps, but one to consider regardless.

And Alj -- you''re so right. Not enough people think about the unthinkable "what if" scenarios -- death, disease, divorce. I probably could raise 2 kids on my own -- but with great difficulty. With 3 kids, I''d be a serious wreck. I''m sure I''d find a way, but it would be back-breakingly, heart-breakingly hard.

So bottom line, for us, DH and I are happy with our 2 kids and we''re looking forward to a more "sane" lifestyle now that they''re both older and a little less maintenance. (compared to the newborn days anyway) In the not too far-off future, we''ll be able to do active, fun things like travel together and have nice dinners out as a family. Having a third would put all of that on hold for us, and I guess we''re just not willing to wait anymore! Unless an "accident" happens (very unlikely in our case), we''re stopping at 2 and counting ourselves blessed to have these miracles in our lives.

 

[sanfranciscoellen]

Asscherisme, I think you are coming from the same place (philosophically) as me. I in no way meant to equate money with bad parenting...or poor families with happy perfection. My husband and I are also very well off when compared with the rest of the country/world. Just not so much in SF, where being very well off makes you decidedly middle class!

I just meant to say that giving your kids the best in life is what every parent wants in whatever country they live in no matter what their living conditions, and it is my belief that "giving your kids the best" in no way corresponds to money and what money can do for you/them.

I do believe from my own life experience, that coming from wealth is more of a challenge for kids to overcome as they grow into adulthood than a path to happiness. My wealthier friends growing up were plagued with a subtle subconscious distrust of all people, realtionships, friendships...."Do they like me for who I am, or what I have?" I worry about my own kids growing up with skewed world views because of this crazy wealthy lovely city we live in.