- 93%

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

This came unsoliceted via Whats App:

 

[mwilliamanderson]

That's a steep discount!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

That's a steep discount!

It is still irrelevant. It is still trading off natural diamond rarity.
But it indicates where prices are going.
1ct D IF $1372 wholesale.
1ct J SI2 $315 wholesale.

 

[mwilliamanderson]

It is still irrelevant. It is still trading off natural diamond rarity.
But it indicates where prices are going.
1ct D IF $1372 wholesale.
1ct J SI2 $315 wholesale.

Do you think pricing will ever pull away from natural diamond pricing and rarity?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

A

Do you think pricing will ever pull away from natural diamond pricing and rarity?

Absolutely -MWA that is a no brainer.
Competition, supply and demand, new market, technology gets cheaper and better, patents expire etc.
Once the market is flooded, as it will become, LGD will do what synthetic sapphires and ruby did 100 years ago, and emeralds did 40 years ago. Not to mention cultured pearls once China learned how to grow them.

 

[Karl_K]

It is still irrelevant. It is still trading off natural diamond rarity.
But it indicates where prices are going.
1ct D IF $1372 wholesale.
1ct J SI2 $315 wholesale.

I have a couple thoughts/questions.
Is that actual pricing or just based on the -93 number in the spam?
What is the quality of the stones that are actually available at -93 back?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I have a couple thoughts/questions.
Is that actual pricing or just based on the -93 number in the spam?
What is the quality of the stones that are actually available at -93 back?

Requested the list.

 

[Karl_K]

Requested the list.

kewl. this will be interesting.

 

[DejaWiz]

Wow...93% back. I would go out on a limb and say that these are probably low quality examples...probably G or worse color grades grown with rapid start-stop CVD with PGT.

 

[Ibrakeforpossums]

Labgrown seems to be splitting into two different products, the very high-end such as Rhino and CBI and ADA Diamonds sell, and the diamonds from who knows where with prices in free-fall.
I have a request in to CBI for prices on two LB Asschers, 154 and 1.64. While CBI doesn't cut these, they have GCAL reports and Wink told me, "Very good cuts."

Does anyone remember the LB Asscher that diamondhoarder bought after careful scrutiny and it turned up disappointing? Now that girl has an eye. I'm thinking that anything from the middle to sort of high end vendors is a tricky place to shop.

One of the questions about LBs has been resale value. I think there will be two distinct answers to this.

 

[oncrutchesrightnow]

Any business called Excellent Corporation might be selling good quality malware.

 

[diamondhoarder]

I have a request in to CBI for prices on two LB Asschers, 154 and 1.64. While CBI doesn't cut these, they have GCAL reports and Wink told me, "Very good cuts."

Oooh exciting - I will be watching this with interest! Do you have a project in mind?

 

[Rockdiamond]

I really love Garry.....don't get the wrong idea, as a friend
HOWEVER- I think it's apparent how he sees the market. And it's not a positive outlook.
Of course- it's his right!! But I disagree.
85 Back
90 Back.
93 Back.

Following this trend, they'll be paying US to take the darn things soon!

The numbers we're discussing are simply NOT relevant to how people reading this generally buy diamonds.
I can find guys offering goods at 95 back.
They're ugly ass diamonds, but cheap.

I know that I reject probably 95% of all the diamonds presented to me- both LG and Earth Mined.
I don't see that changing.
It's remarkably rare that a stone "tickles my fancy" and is, at the same time, the cheapest on the market.
I don't see that changing.
It's really rare for us to ship a loose diamond- because we are known for our settings.....I am proud to say that our setting improves the diamonds we set into them- and I'll bet many other jewelers ( maybe even Garry) feel the same.
So, it's not simply the diamond we ( and many others) are selling.
I don't see that changing either......

Where will LG or EM diamond prices go? If you know the answer definitively, please adopt me.
Of course no one knows where prices will go- or specifically how it will affect a given segment.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I really love Garry.....don't get the wrong idea, as a friend
HOWEVER- I think it's apparent how he sees the market. And it's not a positive outlook.
Of course- it's his right!! But I disagree.
85 Back
90 Back.
93 Back.

Following this trend, they'll be paying US to take the darn things soon!

The numbers we're discussing are simply NOT relevant to how people reading this generally buy diamonds.
I can find guys offering goods at 95 back.
They're ugly ass diamonds, but cheap.

I know that I reject probably 95% of all the diamonds presented to me- both LG and Earth Mined.
I don't see that changing.
It's remarkably rare that a stone "tickles my fancy" and is, at the same time, the cheapest on the market.
I don't see that changing.
It's really rare for us to ship a loose diamond- because we are known for our settings.....I am proud to say that our setting improves the diamonds we set into them- and I'll bet many other jewelers ( maybe even Garry) feel the same.
So, it's not simply the diamond we ( and many others) are selling.
I don't see that changing either......

Where will LG or EM diamond prices go? If you know the answer definitively, please adopt me.
Of course no one knows where prices will go- or specifically how it will affect a given segment.

I had a look at a few videos and there appear to be some nice goods among the dross. I expect these people have picked up some bankrupt inventory as there are various video formats.
One of my team is keen to get a pair of 90 each earrings - so I sent her the list and we will see what she chooses. I will keep you all informed.
David I am neither naive of a bad diamond picker

 

[Rockdiamond]

David I am neither naive of a bad diamond picker

I have ZERO doubt in your diamond picking ability.
Naivete isn't something I'd pin on you either....but I think you are looking at LG through a different lens than Natural- and it's producing a distorted viewpoint in my opinion.
I agree with much of what you say....but not to the extent you predict.

 

[musicloveranthony]

I made a post the other day about how I'd noticed hundreds of LGD had seemingly disappeared from the aggregate sites overnight. Any relation?

 

[Ibrakeforpossums]

Oooh exciting - I will be watching this with interest! Do you have a project in mind?

No project at this point, my checkbook is in Rehab. But I did hear back from Melissa at WolfCBI and she said the Asscher 1.64 E VS2 is $5,3809. The 1.54 has sold. This is published with her permission ( I asked).

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I agree with much of what you say....but not to the extent you predict.

You mean my prediction of where the bottom will be and when it will be reached David?

 

[Rockdiamond]

I made a post the other day about how I'd noticed hundreds of LGD had seemingly disappeared from the aggregate sites overnight. Any relation?

I believe the changes on the aggregate sites have more to do with shifts in the location of the goods.
First, many were sent out to Las Vegas for the trade show.....a percentage of those were sold, so they won't be back on the aggregate lists.
But there's also forces at play larger than the business- COVID in INdia for example......creating shortages which may also deplete the aggregate inventories....

 

[Rockdiamond]

You mean my prediction of where the bottom will be and when it will be reached David?

We've had a lot of interesting discussions back and forth on this- I can't recall a specific prediction you've made.
I would generally categorize you as bearish, while I'm bullish on Lab Growns in the market...excluding the areas where you and I agree........that being large stones....would you concur with my categorization of our respective positions?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

We've had a lot of interesting discussions back and forth on this- I can't recall a specific prediction you've made.
I would generally categorize you as bearish, while I'm bullish on Lab Growns in the market...excluding the areas where you and I agree........that being large stones....would you concur with my categorization of our respective positions?

Make some predictions - I have before - and they will vary each time you ask me

 

[Karl_K]

I had a look at a few videos and there appear to be some nice goods among the dross. I expect these people have picked up some bankrupt inventory as there are various video formats.
One of my team is keen to get a pair of 90 each earrings - so I sent her the list and we will see what she chooses. I will keep you all informed.
David I am neither naive of a bad diamond picker

Are they all at -93% or do they vary?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Are they all at -93% or do they vary?

There is some loss leader and negotiations. I would not say they are an ethical bunch. but wait until I see if we are going to buy a sample order for my staffs earrings.

 

[sprinklesparkles]

Labgrown seems to be splitting into two different products, the very high-end such as Rhino and CBI and ADA Diamonds sell, and the diamonds from who knows where with prices in free-fall.
I have a request in to CBI for prices on two LB Asschers, 154 and 1.64. While CBI doesn't cut these, they have GCAL reports and Wink told me, "Very good cuts."

Does anyone remember the LB Asscher that diamondhoarder bought after careful scrutiny and it turned up disappointing? Now that girl has an eye. I'm thinking that anything from the middle to sort of high end vendors is a tricky place to shop.

One of the questions about LBs has been resale value. I think there will be two distinct answers to this.

Kind of like Whiteflash vs Kay’s.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Are they all at -93% or do they vary?

Yes Karl, they definitely vary....

They definitely vary...come on Garry...you're acting like rough costs nothing.
It's a lot less efficient cutting larger ( 2ct+) Marquise, for example, as compared to Emerald Cuts. There's more waste. Thats' gotta cost.

And that's totally outside the discussion of different labs grading being judged equally in terms of cost for a given grade.
Or differences in transparency
Or differences in Make
Nature and placement of imperfection.
All that stuff, it comes into play.
Just like "real" diamonds.
Because hey- they ARE real diamonds!

 

[Rockdiamond]

Make some predictions

I predict there's a 99% chance you and I will continue to debate this issue

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I predict there's a 99% chance you and I will continue to debate this issue

Draw your line in the sand David.
Put words on the line, don't be afraid, you will be proven wrong anyway

 

[Rockdiamond]

Draw your line in the sand David.
Put words on the line, don't be afraid, you will be proven wrong anyway

I feel like I have a responsibility to our clients and myself. To be unflinchingly honest. I do this by making sure we’re pricing the goods at fair market value, regardless of what they cost us. Don’t forget, natural diamonds have not followed a straight path upwards, in terms of prices.
From my perspective, predicting a drop in the prices of LGD’s is the same as predicting a rise - like those selling “investment” natural diamonds.
I don’t fault you one bit for making predictions.
For me- I’ll stick with Yogi Berra’s logic.
I’m excellent with predictions. Except for those that involve things that might happen in the future.

I will make this prediction- the-93% offer you got ain’t gonna change any prices on the major sites. ( we’ve been getting them for a while)

 

[holyrock]

It sounds like alot, but that's where the price per ctw LGs are right now. Picture is E-G VS ID GCAL cert , so not bad stones and above 1ctw. So far the prices are kinda stable, but there are labs that are willing to go even cheaper just to unload, and transfer the risk of price drop onto buyer.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

It sounds like alot, but that's where the price per ctw LGs are right now. Picture is E-G VS ID GCAL cert , so not bad stones and above 1ctw. So far the prices are kinda stable, but there are labs that are willing to go even cheaper just to unload, and transfer the risk of price drop onto buyer.

I do not understand?