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3 carat stone from WHITEFLASH

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JohnQuixote

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Date: 1/25/2007 7:43:33 PM
Author: Harriet




Date: 1/25/2007 10:32:06 AM
Author: Harriet
I'm in a hurry, so this will be a brief post:
1. The people at WF are great to work with.
2. I took the stone because it is hard to find something as well-cut in this size.
3. It faces up white, but the tint from the side bothers me. As such, I've asked WF to look for a similar stone in a higher colour.
4. I'm not entirely happy with my WF setting (the 6-prong Tiffany knife-edge). The basket is attached to the band in a slighly clumsy fashion and the prongs are not aligned with the facets.


Harriet,

Keeping the laser inscription visible was the first priority with your ring. Our setter balanced that with an offset orientation (see the photo of your ring, below). With regard to the arrows it would be possible to align 2 of them, but that might hide the inscription.

I must admit that I’m surprised to read these comments here for the first time. We sent the ring to you 20 days ago and never heard any issues until this thread. Our job is to be there for our customers and we have had email contact since then. I wish you had said something directly to us prior to this.


6PrOffsetExampleforPS.jpg
 

whatmeworry

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Date: 1/25/2007 11:13:59 PM
Author: Harriet
Look at the 12 o''clock and 6 o''clock prongs. In between, there''s a combination of facets that constitute a 45 degree tilted square. Well, my prongs don''t line up with the top and bottom corners.
Well to do that the prongs would have to be at 12 o clock, 1:30, 4:30, 6, 7:30, 10:30, and 12 and they wouldnt be equally spaced.
 

jayreneepea

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Date: 1/25/2007 11:26:07 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

Date: 1/25/2007 10:36:05 PM
Author: solange
I have the Whiteflash Tiffany setting and I am very happy with it.As to aligning the prongs with the facets, I wonder if this is possible since the six prongs have to be evenly spaced and they may not all fall in line with a facet. I am anxious to hear whether this can be done.



Solange - In a six-prong setting 2 prongs can be lined up when the customer requests it.

Typical setting priorities include durability factors, keeping inscriptions visible, placement of prongs to hide inclusions (if any), etc. If you ask a retail jeweler about ‘lining up the arrows’ you might get a strange look: Over time the photos on this forum showing diamonds with top optical symmetry (arrows) in settings - highly magnified - have caused interest in this as a detail of setting here.

Here’s a graphic for 4 and 6 prongs:The diamond may be lined up in a north-south orientation, it may be offset (see below) or it may not be so-aligned, depending on what judgment the setter makes.
Is it preferable to have the arrows lined up? In looking at the sample picture, I definitely prefer the diamond mounted in the "offset" position.
 

JohnQuixote

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Date: 1/26/2007 12:46:30 AM
Author: jayrenay9

Is it preferable to have the arrows lined up? In looking at the sample picture, I definitely prefer the diamond mounted in the ''offset'' position.

Hi Jay. There’s really no advantage either way.The majority of performance occurs under the table.The girdle area is not where primary light performance is taking place and a well set diamond with appropriately sized prongs performs well regardless of orientation. For that matter it''s an invisible detail in most situations; diamonds are dynamic, often in-motion and not usually seen at 40 power magnification or with such structured contrast (unless held still and observed in certain lighting).

Still, it may be a matter of aesthetics or even ‘mind clean’ to some, which we respect.If a certain orientation is important to you it will go into the notes for the setter when requested.
 

Ellen

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Date: 1/26/2007 12:57:59 AM
Author: JohnQuixote

Date: 1/26/2007 12:46:30 AM
Author: jayrenay9

Is it preferable to have the arrows lined up? In looking at the sample picture, I definitely prefer the diamond mounted in the ''offset'' position.


Hi Jay. There’s really no advantage either way.The majority of performance occurs under the table.The girdle area is not where primary light performance is taking place and a well set diamond with appropriately sized prongs performs well regardless of orientation. For that matter it''s an invisible detail in most situations; diamonds are dynamic, often in-motion and not usually seen at 40 power magnification or with such structured contrast (unless held still and observed in certain lighting).

Still, it may be a matter of aesthetics or even ‘mind clean’ to some, which we respect.If a certain orientation is important to you it will go into the notes for the setter when requested.
Agreed.

I can put the O in obssessive and even I don''t notice this detail.
9.gif
 

Harriet

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Date: 1/26/2007 12:39:01 AM
Author: JohnQuixote




Date: 1/25/2007 7:43:33 PM
Author: Harriet








Date: 1/25/2007 10:32:06 AM
Author: Harriet
I'm in a hurry, so this will be a brief post:
1. The people at WF are great to work with.
2. I took the stone because it is hard to find something as well-cut in this size.
3. It faces up white, but the tint from the side bothers me. As such, I've asked WF to look for a similar stone in a higher colour.
4. I'm not entirely happy with my WF setting (the 6-prong Tiffany knife-edge). The basket is attached to the band in a slighly clumsy fashion and the prongs are not aligned with the facets.






Harriet,

Keeping the laser inscription visible was the first priority with your ring. Our setter balanced that with an offset orientation (see the photo of your ring, below). With regard to the arrows it would be possible to align 2 of them, but that might hide the inscription.

I must admit that I’m surprised to read these comments here for the first time. We sent the ring to you 20 days ago and never heard any issues until this thread. Our job is to be there for our customers and we have had email contact since then. I wish you had said something directly to us prior to this.
John,

The setting issue has been bothering me since day 1. However, I've been trying to convince myself that I'm actually cross-eyed and that it's fine. I raised the setting issue here only because the OP wanted feedback on your settings. Otherwise, I would have contacted WF solely. In any case, I e-mailed Katie when I finally decided that I was sufficiently bothered. As I've said several times on this board, WF is great to work with.
 

kenny

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I think it is wonderful to have this public forum where we consumers can air our concerns.

I've bought from a few of the PS vendors.
After the sales a couple issues have come up that I have discussed here.
It is wonderful to not be alone when it comes to such an important and specialized purchase.

But understanding the power of this medium (to help or hurt vendors, fairly or unfairly) I have always extended the courtesy of discussing the issue privately with the vendor first, and mentioning that I'd like to get the PS community's valuable input.
To their credit they have always had no problem with me posting the issue and I'm sure they appreciate the heads up.

This public forum gives me a feeling of safety (and recourse if needed).
Without it I doubt I'd feel comfortable buying diamonds online.

Long Live Pricescope!
36.gif
 

aljdewey

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Date: 1/26/2007 12:14:58 AM
Author: Harriet

Would it be difficult to align my prongs? I assumed that that would be done. I wished someone had asked me first.
I don''t mean this in a mean way, but I think that''s a bit of an unreasonable expectation.

There are standard things a jeweler would typically ask, even if you failed to mention them. They are *normal* things that a jeweler could reasonably anticipate preferences for. Examples would be "did you want yellow or white metal, do you prefer 4 or 6 prong, what size is your ring, do you prefer credit or cash transaction, etc." These are questions that become the norm to ask within the industry.

Placement of the diamond relative to the prongs has never been among those normal questions. Until I came to PS, it never even occurred to me that someone could be that anal! (There''s nothing wrong with it, mind you....I''m more than anal about some things myself
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....things that I know most people wouldn''t think of, nevermind care about. In those situations, I realize that the onus is on me to specify if something is important to me that would be outside the norm.

It''s reasonable to forsee that a customer may want an inclusion placed under a prong, so that has become a standard question when such inclusions come into play. It''s not really reasonable to think someone cares about diamond-facet-to-prong placement.....it''s like expecting a waiter to ask if you would prefer breakfast at 10:30 pm in a crowded restaurant known for its prime rib.
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No jeweler would likely ask this question. The most common concern for the overwhelming majority of customers (providing no hiding inclusions concerns) is being able to read the inscription so know their diamond is theirs. Most customers who buy a graded stone do so because they want the assurance that the grading report provides, and the inscription is a top concern. Hence, that''s the normal placement unless you, the customer, specify otherwise.

Even among the most specific PSers who have a preference, there is no typical norm. Some folks want the arrows placed so they won''t fall under prongs. Some want them so they line up precisely north/south. Yet others want them to line up exactly east/west.

Since WF is so accommodating, though, I''m sure they can make the change to make you happy.
9.gif
 

Harriet

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Aljdewey,

No offence taken. I am a novice, and don''t know the industry norms. My stone, as John explained, was placed in a off-set orientation. Even then, it''s not precise. That said, WF will be remedying it, as I was confident they would.
 

3hearts

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I bought a 1.19 ''J'' ACA from WF and was completely happy. But Renee knew I wanted a larger stone and when a 2.5 K/VS1 ES became available, Renee called me and told me how white it faced up. I traded in my ''J'' without seeing the ''K'', and yes, I''m glad I did, because to me, its beautiful
face23.gif
.

I also sent a pic of the setting I wanted and WF replicated the setting, emailed me pics of the wax setting, I approved it, WF set the stone, sent the completed ring to their appraiser who comfirmed everything was correct and WF sent me the completed ring. Yes, I would do it again.

I also recently bought 2 additional .50''s stones from the ES inventory and had them set in martini settings for earrings. Love the earrings
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Harriet

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LienTN,

My FI saw what he said was a beautiful 3+ carat stone at H. Sena at Paragon a while ago. Have you ever been there? I''m curious what their quality''s like.
 

Phoenix

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Harriet,

I''d stay well away from Sena. Their quality of their pieces is ok, not bad, but definitely not the best. Their prices, however, are astronomical and their customer services are amongst the worst I''ve ever come across. They do not have a refund, exchange or upgrade policy. Hope your FI didn''t act on impulse...well, I am sure he didn''t.
 

Harriet

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LienTN,

I''ll be in S''pore in August and can show you my ACA then. I''m really curious about your opinion of the S''pore market - price, quality etc.
 

Phoenix

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Wow! Would love to meet up with you and see your beautiful ACA. Yay!!
36.gif
. Hope I am not travelling at that time (no plan at the moment though). I can take you to a few places so you can see the diamonds for yourself, inclg Sena and Aspial and a few other places. There is one place here called The Carat Club on Emerald Hill. The salespeople there are very friendly and keen to impress. They have some nice eye candy there and also have an upgrade policy. I saw a 3.64 E SI1 there recently which I was very tempted to buy (to replace my 3.02 carat FVS2 which I am returning - to a dealer in Hong Kong), but which turned out to have a chip. The resident gemologist there agreed with me that it was a chip (which used to be where the largest feather was), but the manager of the shop insisted it wasn''t. On the whole, I am not very impressed, but I looooveee looking at diamonds and frequently do so. Of course Tiffany''s and Cartier''s are here too and they''re absolutely gorgeous but their prices are the same as the rest of the world.

Let me know once your plans firm up. I''m looking forward to meeting you ...and your ACA!
1.gif
 

Harriet

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Date: 1/27/2007 9:00:59 PM
Author: lienTN
Wow! Would love to meet up with you and see your beautiful ACA. Yay!!
36.gif
. Hope I am not travelling at that time (no plan at the moment though). I can take you to a few places so you can see the diamonds for yourself, inclg Sena and Aspial and a few other places. There is one place here called The Carat Club on Emerald Hill. The salespeople there are very friendly and keen to impress. They have some nice eye candy there and also have an upgrade policy. I saw a 3.64 E SI1 there recently which I was very tempted to buy (to replace my 3.02 carat FVS2 which I am returning - to a dealer in Hong Kong), but which turned out to have a chip. The resident gemologist there agreed with me that it was a chip (which used to be where the largest feather was), but the manager of the shop insisted it wasn't. On the whole, I am not very impressed, but I looooveee looking at diamonds and frequently do so. Of course Tiffany's and Cartier's are here too and they're absolutely gorgeous but their prices are the same as the rest of the world.

Let me know once your plans firm up. I'm looking forward to meeting you ...and your ACA!
1.gif
Same here! Pity about your experiences with Sena. They are family acquaintances, so we get a discount. I have a few modest pieces that were gifts from my parents, and that I'll hold onto. My mother has a 1 carat from Sena that she offered to me to have set in a stud. But, I think I'll be better off with an ACA. I've asked WF to look for a higher colour for my e-ring (though I'm willing to go down to SI-1). Hopefully, I'll have that to show you. Btw, 2 more questions for you: 1. What size rings do you see around you? 2. How are the prices in Hong Kong?
 

Phoenix

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Ooopss, me and my big mouth! I should have asked you some questions first before I made any comments about Sena. They do, however, have some really huge stones which you could look at to satisfy your diamond thirst!
3.gif
. I've seen earrings in there as large as 5 carat EACH and I think E or F colour. They've also got loose stones up to 10-15 carats. Amazing!
6.gif


To answer your questions: many (not sure if I can say most) ladies here have "very small" (relative of course) diamonds, under 1 carat and poorly cut, very dull. Some of my friends have diamonds around 3-6 carats, some with relatively good colour and cut (can't tell about clarity as I've never been so bold as to ask to have a look at them close up), some not so good - colour and cut-wise. Some other ladies, particularly the "tai tai's" (a local term for very very rich women) wear beautiful huge sparkling eye-candies (to go with their Maserati's and convertible Merc's and their top designer outfits and handbags etc), which I'd bet have very high colour, clarity and good cut too, though I've never seen one close up to make a more accurate assessment (so you can deduce from that that I don't hang round in that circle
8.gif
). Prices in HK are a little better than in Singapore, though B&M shops are also a rip-off. You need to know where to look. I know of a few places with reasonable prices and quality, one that I bought my 3 carater from. Generally, though, all (inclluding the more reputable places) do not have an upgrade policy or even a return or exchange policy. I am lucky though, that the dealer whom I've bought from has agreed to take my stone back. I'd only buy from the 'net from now on, from the more reputable people who also have an upgrade policy (never know when DSS will set in. He he).
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 1/26/2007 12:57:59 AM
Author: JohnQuixote


Hi Jay. There’s really no advantage either way.The majority of performance occurs under the table.The girdle area is not where primary light performance is taking place and a well set diamond with appropriately sized prongs performs well regardless of orientation. For that matter it''s an invisible detail in most situations; diamonds are dynamic, often in-motion and not usually seen at 40 power magnification or with such structured contrast (unless held still and observed in certain lighting).

Still, it may be a matter of aesthetics or even ‘mind clean’ to some, which we respect.If a certain orientation is important to you it will go into the notes for the setter when requested.
I don''t think it''s just a mind clean issue john - I prefer offset for a couple reasons - one is in rounds you can see the arrows in completion.... but even in my stone which has no arrows I plan to have them offset because ONE of the beautiful things, especially in larger diamonds with larger facets, is seeing the kite facets reflect light - the shape of them is so much prettier than the upper girdle facets LOL I''d much rather cover them :D
 

Harriet

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Date: 1/28/2007 12:09:44 AM
Author: lienTN
Ooopss, me and my big mouth! I should have asked you some questions first before I made any comments about Sena. They do, however, have some really huge stones which you could look at to satisfy your diamond thirst!
3.gif
. I''ve seen earrings in there as large as 5 carat EACH and I think E or F colour. They''ve also got loose stones up to 10-15 carats. Amazing!
6.gif


To answer your questions: many (not sure if I can say most) ladies here have ''very small'' (relative of course) diamonds, under 1 carat and poorly cut, very dull. Some of my friends have diamonds around 3-6 carats, some with relatively good colour and cut (can''t tell about clarity as I''ve never been so bold as to ask to have a look at them close up), some not so good - colour and cut-wise. Some other ladies, particularly the ''tai tai''s'' (a local term for very very rich women) wear beautiful huge sparkling eye-candies (to go with their Maserati''s and convertible Merc''s and their top designer outfits and handbags etc), which I''d bet have very high colour, clarity and good cut too, though I''ve never seen one close up to make a more accurate assessment (so you can deduce from that that I don''t hang round in that circle
8.gif
). Prices in HK are a little better than in Singapore, though B&M shops are also a rip-off. You need to know where to look. I know of a few places with reasonable prices and quality, one that I bought my 3 carater from. Generally, though, all (inclluding the more reputable places) do not have an upgrade policy or even a return or exchange policy. I am lucky though, that the dealer whom I''ve bought from has agreed to take my stone back. I''d only buy from the ''net from now on, from the more reputable people who also have an upgrade policy (never know when DSS will set in. He he).
That''s ok. Mr. Sena is a family acquaintance, not a friend.
With all your diamonds (and your friends''), are you sure you are not a tai tai? :)
 

Phoenix

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Ha ha! I wish!
1.gif
 

Harriet

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I see you've asked WF for a G/H SI1. So have I! Given how small S'pore is, wouldn't it be funny if it turned out that we already know each other?
 

Phoenix

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yours would be larger than mine!

DSS occurred, i think, a few days after i collected my 3.02 F VS2.
6.gif
. But for the time being, i''m sticking to a stone just over 3 carat. Maybe in six months- one year''s time, I''d upgrade.

I wonder how long we''ll have to wait? Have you checked out ERD yet? How are their stones like compared to WF?
 

diamondseeker2006

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LienTN, my understanding is that WF is different from the other vendors in that they have their own stones cut. The other vendors buy stones for their inventories from suppliers that often sell to multiple vendors. So with WF, you wait until they get in what you want. They get new stones around every 6 weeks. With the other vendors, you''d ask them to check all their suppliers for the kind of stone you want. So with WF, you know that ACA''s are all of a consistent cut quality within the ideal cut category and are true hearts and arrows stones. Some vendors, like GOG, choose H&A stones for their inventory and give you the idealscopes, etc. to prove the optical symmetry and light performance. Some vendors mainly list stones from their suppliers which they really do not physically have on hand when you call and you have only the certificate for information on the stone. And WF and GOG, etc. can certainly access that kind of stone as well, but I prefer to shop their in-house selection because I know they have prescreened those diamonds and that they can look at them and compare them to others for me.
 

Harriet

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Date: 1/28/2007 10:02:38 PM
Author: lienTN
yours would be larger than mine!

DSS occurred, i think, a few days after i collected my 3.02 F VS2.
6.gif
. But for the time being, i''m sticking to a stone just over 3 carat. Maybe in six months- one year''s time, I''d upgrade.

I wonder how long we''ll have to wait? Have you checked out ERD yet? How are their stones like compared to WF?
Not if it continues to shrink!

If you have an 3.02 F VS2, why were you looking at the 3.12?

I suspect we''ll have to wait a while. WF''s 3 or more carats were in their inventory for months. That''s ok. I''ll wait because their cut is beautiful. Maybe by then I''ll be able to swing a 4. Ha!
 

Phoenix

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DS, thanks so much for that infor. I will wait for a beautiful ACA from WF. I think it''ll be worth it.

Harriet, my 3.02 F VS2, though of very good clarity (the appraisers thought they were VVS2), is on the lower end of F, more like a G and the cut is not ideal (total depth is 62.2). It is beautiful though and faces up white and very sparkling but am sure that an ACA will be even more beautiful. I was tempted to ask WF for an F stone but want to first try a G or a H, ie. something less expensive, at least for the time being. Anyway, their G or H should face up whiter than most other people''s.

Anyway, this dealer in HK does not have an upgrade policy and as DSS has already set in, I am afraid that this one is not going to my forever stone. He he.
3.gif


It''d be FANTASTIC if you upgrade to a 4 carater. That''s my dream stone
30.gif
.
 

Phoenix

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Harriet, are you from S''pore originally? If not, what''s your connection, may I ask?
 

Harriet

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Yup, Singapore girl born and bred.
 

Phoenix

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Now I understand your comment re "fellow countrywoman". I am so stupid!

Wow! What a small world! I am actually not Singaporean but a PR. Have been here for 7 years and this is home now, at least for the time being.
 

Harriet

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Where are you from originally (it''s ok if you don''t want to disclose it on a public forum)?
 

Phoenix

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No worries. I am Vietnamese by origin, grew up in the UK (London).
 

Harriet

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Ooh, St. Michael''s biscuits. Maybe we should move our discussion over to the Hangout forum before someone complains.
 
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