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3.11 ct cusion modified brilliant, vs2, I color - price!!

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CornishRex

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Dear Forum,
As you know i was considering a yellow sapphire but wanted to double check my options on a diamond. I found a great dealer in NY who has shown me some beautiful stones. They seem very close to Blue Nile prices - think I could get something less expensive?

It is a GIA certified 3.11 ct cushion modified brilliant, I Color, VS 2 clarity, Good polish, good symmetry, no flouresecence for $26.4k. The stone is gorgeous, looking throught the loup i could not even see the imperfections noted on the GIA report.

The dealer explained it was less $$ because of the I color and that it was a shallow stone - so it looks even bigger than a normal 3.11 stone because it is not as deep. Its brilliance is still remarkable even given the shallowness and I had trouble finding any fault with the shallowness. table is 68%, measurements are 9.03 x 8.97 x 4.87 mm, Girdle is thin - extremely thick (faceted).

What do the esteemed experts think of the stone for the price?
 

Rockdiamond

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The price seems fine- of course you''ll need to add sales tax to that if you intend to pick up the diamond in person, or if you live in New York State- which is a nice chunk of change (almost $2200)

As I often say, it''s really not possible to evaluate a cushion based on measurements, or a GIA report.
You''ve actually seen the stone, so in that area, you''re the expert. If you liked it, it sounds fine.
 

Lorelei

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Date: 3/10/2009 3:52:08 PM
Author:CornishRex
Dear Forum,
As you know i was considering a yellow sapphire but wanted to double check my options on a diamond. I found a great dealer in NY who has shown me some beautiful stones. They seem very close to Blue Nile prices - think I could get something less expensive?

It is a GIA certified 3.11 ct cushion modified brilliant, I Color, VS 2 clarity, Good polish, good symmetry, no flouresecence for $26.4k. The stone is gorgeous, looking throught the loup i could not even see the imperfections noted on the GIA report.

The dealer explained it was less $$ because of the I color and that it was a shallow stone - so it looks even bigger than a normal 3.11 stone because it is not as deep. Its brilliance is still remarkable even given the shallowness and I had trouble finding any fault with the shallowness. table is 68%, measurements are 9.03 x 8.97 x 4.87 mm, Girdle is thin - extremely thick (faceted).

What do the esteemed experts think of the stone for the price?
Hi CR,

What is the actual depth of the diamond? If you liked it when you saw it then it is worth consideration, hard for us to tell much without the depth and photos of the cushion, or even just by numbers though as David says. What I would suggest is to see if you can check it out in plain daylight to see how the diamond behaves then, store lights can be deceptive.
 

CornishRex

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Thanks!

It has a 68% tbale and a 54.3% depth. FYI I just looked it up on the prisecope price comparison and I think i found my exact stone for $23k!!!!
 

Rockdiamond

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I agree with Lorelei- make sure to look at it under different lighting sources to make sure of your first impression.
I''ve seen lovely cushions with that kind of depth, so it''s entirely possible it''s a winner!

In terms of finding the stone online, you''re going to have to play this carefully.
It could be a win win for you -but not necessarily for the guy who''s already shown you the stone.
It is possible he could "spoil" the sale by not releasing the stone so that the online seller can''t get their hands on it.......
 

CornishRex

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David,
Thanks for your help. You hit the nail on the head. I called WhiteFlash (who has the diamond) and they said the dealer would have to release the stone. What is the better tactic?
A. Show him the price i found online for the same stone and get him to come down?
b. Tell him i am going with another diamond from another ealer and have him release the stone - the risk is that he sells it to someone else in the meantime

Thanks,
 

Rockdiamond

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That''s a really good question.
We only advertise diamonds which are in our possession so I have no experience with how to handle this......
Hopefully others who have experience in this particualr area will chime in.
I''d say not to do anything without thinking it through.....
 

Ellen

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Date: 3/10/2009 4:54:16 PM
Author: CornishRex
Thanks!

It has a 68% tbale and a 54.3% depth. FYI I just looked it up on the prisecope price comparison and I think i found my exact stone for $23k!!!!
Hi cornish,

I''ll be honest, if these numbers are correct, I''d keep looking. This is a tremendous amount of money you''re spending, and I would love to see you get your money''s worth. I''m doubtful in this instance.

While fancies have no set numbers to follow, the "general" rule is for the table to be smaller than the depth, or close to. But there is such a huge discrepancy here, that I fear the diamond''s optics are going to suffer. At some point, the give and take in a fancy crosses over to just not well cut.

It may indeed face up larger than it should, but at the expence of optics. It could look watery, have dead areas when tilted, and lack fire almost assuredly. I''ve also read fancies can have a fisheye affect with this type of table/depth situation.

I am not wanting to rain on your parade at all, but since you asked, and since you have a killer budget, I thought I''d throw my 2 cents in. If you haven''t yet, I''d search the site for cushion threads, there are some very good ones. Some great videos as well. You could get a killer cushion, though not this size. You pay for cut, so you''d undoubtedly have to go down.

HTH!
 

Rockdiamond

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It''s really not possible to figure out how a cushion is going to look based on the numbers- and this is a perfect example. I believe that CornishRex chose the diamond based on physical examination.

If she has not looked at any other cushions, it''s great advice to look different styles of cushion to make an informed choice- I''m also sure the threads Ellen suggested are another great resource. I think it''s important to add that not everyone likes the same type of cushion.

To me, it sounds like CornishRex found a diamond she loves.
 

Ellen

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David, she looked at stones (possibly, it sounds like, for the first time), under jewelers lights. They ALL look good under jewelers lighting. And I will politely disagree with you with judging from numbers. I would bet money the other professionals here (some of whom cut diamonds too), that sell them, would say the same thing I did. As I said, at some point, the give and take with numbers falls into "not well cut". Such a thing does exist yanno. No really, it does.


And she may well love it under those lights, but what about when she leaves? I stand by my post.
 

Rockdiamond

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In my experience, the numbers of the stoneCornish looked at do not fall into the category you''re speaking of Ellen.
Cushions with depths in the low ''50''s can be gorgeous to some people.
Plus, there''s a very good chance such a stone will also have a huge spread. Just because a diamond "performs" poorly on ASETS and other light reflection devices does not necessarily mean that there won''t be people who will choose that stone- after comparing it to one that does score well on ASET.
Cushions in particular tend to appeal to buyers that like glitter, as opposed to sparkle.

Hopefully Cornish has had some experience looking at a few different cushions.
If not, we all agree, that''s a smart thing to do before one buys.

IMO if someone who''s seen different stones has seen a diamond, and loves that diamond, that speaks volumes.
 

Ellen

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Date: 3/10/2009 8:04:15 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
In my experience, the numbers of the stoneCornish looked at do not fall into the category you''re speaking of Ellen.
Cushions with depths in the low ''50''s can be gorgeous to some people.
Plus, there''s a very good chance such a stone will also have a huge spread. Just because a diamond ''performs'' poorly on ASETS and other light reflection devices does not necessarily mean that there won''t be people who will choose that stone- after comparing it to one that does score well on ASET.
Cushions in particular tend to appeal to buyers that like glitter, as opposed to sparkle.

Hopefully Cornish has had some experience looking at a few different cushions.
If not, we all agree, that''s a smart thing to do before one buys.

IMO if someone who''s seen different stones has seen a diamond, and loves that diamond, that speaks volumes.
I would agree there could be nice cushions with low depths, but not with a table this size. Seriously, I know of no vendor, and there are 2 known for selling outstanding cushions, that would sell such a stone. Why? Because it''s not well cut. A cushion tends to behave somewhat like a round, in that a smaller than depth table lends itself more to fire/scintillation. See, it''s not just a "marketing" gimmick, much as you''d like to think. There really is something to smaller tables combined with appropriate depth, etc. Those make prettier diamonds.

With all due respect, I really hope in the future that you will post your initial thoughts and leave it at that. I do not want to have to keep jacking up peoples threads.


And to Cornish, I sincerely apologize.
 

Dancing Fire

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Date: 3/10/2009 8:04:15 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
In my experience, the numbers of the stoneCornish looked at do not fall into the category you''re speaking of Ellen.
Cushions with depths in the low ''50''s can be gorgeous to some people.
Plus, there''s a very good chance such a stone will also have a huge spread. Just because a diamond ''performs'' poorly on ASETS and other light reflection devices does not necessarily mean that there won''t be people who will choose that stone- after comparing it to one that does score well on ASET.
Cushions in particular tend to appeal to buyers that like glitter, as opposed to sparkle.

Hopefully Cornish has had some experience looking at a few different cushions.
If not, we all agree, that''s a smart thing to do before one buys.

IMO if someone who''s seen different stones has seen a diamond, and loves that diamond, that speaks volumes.
Dave
the problem is that most consumers don''t look at enough stones to make a good judgement. heck, a crappy stone may look like a "super stone" to most of thee first time buyers. so, your "buy it if you like it" advise don''t really work.
 

Ellen

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Date: 3/10/2009 8:24:24 PM
Author: Dancing Fire
Dave
the problem is that most consumers don''t look at enough stones to make a good judgement. heck, a crappy stone may look like a ''super stone'' to most of thee first time buyers. so, your ''buy it if you like it'' advise don''t really work.
Exactly. Thank you.
 

Kaleigh

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Date: 3/10/2009 8:17:19 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 3/10/2009 8:04:15 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
In my experience, the numbers of the stoneCornish looked at do not fall into the category you''re speaking of Ellen.
Cushions with depths in the low ''50''s can be gorgeous to some people.
Plus, there''s a very good chance such a stone will also have a huge spread. Just because a diamond ''performs'' poorly on ASETS and other light reflection devices does not necessarily mean that there won''t be people who will choose that stone- after comparing it to one that does score well on ASET.
Cushions in particular tend to appeal to buyers that like glitter, as opposed to sparkle.

Hopefully Cornish has had some experience looking at a few different cushions.
If not, we all agree, that''s a smart thing to do before one buys.

IMO if someone who''s seen different stones has seen a diamond, and loves that diamond, that speaks volumes.
I would agree there could be nice cushions with low depths, but not with a table this size. Seriously, I know of no vendor, and there are 2 known for selling outstanding cushions, that would sell such a stone. Why? Because it''s not well cut. A cushion tends to behave somewhat like a round, in that a smaller than depth table lends itself more to fire/scintillation. See, it''s not just a ''marketing'' gimmick, much as you''d like to think. There really is something to smaller tables combined with appropriate depth, etc. Those make prettier diamonds.

With all due respect, I really hope in the future that you will post your initial thoughts and leave it at that. I do not want to have to keep jacking up peoples threads.


And to Cornish, I sincerely apologize.
Ditto to all that Ellen said. She''s spot on. I too worry about the table size. I hope you can get us some pics cornish. It''s a lot of money and want you to get the best bang for your buck. That''s why we are here.

David, I also ditto what Ellen said to you.


Best of luck cornish!!
 

Rockdiamond

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In all fairness, that's not an accurate categorization DF.
First of all, we don;t know how many stones the OP has looked at.
We agree that it's a good idea to look at a variety of stones.
For example, some people really hate a "bucket of crushed ice" look, while others adore it.
There are diametrically opposed designs. Both are popular- with good cause IMO.

Second of all this is someone who's looked at a diamond, and posted the GIA stats.
Although there are all kinds of "guides" published making it seem as though there are hard fast rules, I don't find that to be the case.
I could easily envision a drop dead stone with those stats.

Third of all, it seems that the purchase might very well be from a trusted PS vendor. We wouldn't have to be concerned about the safety of the deal, based on the seller.

Fourth of all, 3.22ct I/VS2 Cushions are not all that common.

There are plenty of cases where I advise people to hold up and look further.
If Cornish has not seen other stones, she can certainly do so, and it would not be ill advised.
But if she ends up choosing the first diamond, I will be very happy for her.
I color is great thing - for those who;ve seen it and love it.
VS2 is another great thing about this particular diamond.
You're still in the "VS" family, yet you save maybe 20% over a VS1- if both are eye clean, which one would you take?

I have nothing at all to do with this transaction- I'm neither buyer nor seller.
But I can see it from a different perspective.
I really do look at this from the consumers standpoint. That's always how I designed our business- considering what I'd be thinking if I were shopping.
 

Rock_of_Love

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Date: 3/10/2009 5:07:20 PM
Author: CornishRex
David,
Thanks for your help. You hit the nail on the head. I called WhiteFlash (who has the diamond) and they said the dealer would have to release the stone. What is the better tactic?
A. Show him the price i found online for the same stone and get him to come down?
b. Tell him i am going with another diamond from another ealer and have him release the stone - the risk is that he sells it to someone else in the meantime

Thanks,
I would probably do option "A" because after its been posted about on PS you have a much higher risk of it possibly being sold to someone else, IMO. It happened to me, I went with option B, and it ended up getting sold by the first vendor. I wasn''t that dissappointed because I wasn''t ready at the time to purchase, and ended up changing my specs (and budget!) a little, so I probably wouldn''t have purchased it anyway. BUT, it just brings up why I believe you should go with option "A."

Good luck...and I would definitely try and look at some other cushions just to be sure it is exactly what you want for such a large purchase.
 

strmrdr

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With the large table it isn''t going to be the most fiery stone around.

54.3 depth can work if everything is close to perfect there are enough red flags with this one that any attempt to access it remotely without images is impossible other than to say fire will be a bit down.

Ellen''s assessment is right on she didn''t say it had those issues she said it could have those issues and be cautious.

David to say that this stone does not have those issues based on the information available is not something I would expect from an industry professional.
To point out what there is not enough information to make definite conclusion would be.

There is not enough information to tell.
 

Rockdiamond

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Date: 3/10/2009 3:52:08 PM
Author:CornishRex
Dear Forum,
As you know i was considering a yellow sapphire but wanted to double check my options on a diamond. I found a great dealer in NY who has shown me some beautiful stones. They seem very close to Blue Nile prices - think I could get something less expensive?

It is a GIA certified 3.11 ct cushion modified brilliant, I Color, VS 2 clarity, Good polish, good symmetry, no flouresecence for $26.4k. The stone is gorgeous, looking throught the loup i could not even see the imperfections noted on the GIA report.

The dealer explained it was less $$ because of the I color and that it was a shallow stone - so it looks even bigger than a normal 3.11 stone because it is not as deep. Its brilliance is still remarkable even given the shallowness and I had trouble finding any fault with the shallowness. table is 68%, measurements are 9.03 x 8.97 x 4.87 mm, Girdle is thin - extremely thick (faceted).

What do the esteemed experts think of the stone for the price?
Guys, I realize the value of working with the numbers in the way you do.
It's primarily because most of the people looking for advice here are trying to buy a diamond based, in the best case, based on good photos, ASETS, IS photos, what have you. If it's BN, we're only talking about the GIA numbers.

This person saw that diamond, and thought is was "Gorgeous".
That's fairly unequivocal.
She also said the seller showed her a few stones.

I am giving Cornish the benefit of the doubt in that she must be an intelligent person, with somewhat of a developed eye for what she loves. She looked at the stone and she loved it.
It was in a jewelry store, with bright lights.
The same lights that would be hitting all the diamonds she looked at.
Maybe these were the very first cushion diamonds she's looked at, maybe not.
Maybe the seller rigged it and had some really horribly cut diamonds for her to compare to.
But- she might be able to safely buy the diamond from WF with a money back guarantee- which is what we should be helping her to do, based on the facts in this case.
What would be the answer to a stone that is knocked by people based on numbers yet preferred by the buyer?


Cornish- I sincerely hope you take this all in stride and use the good people here to help.
If shes' looked at a nice amount of diamonds and is confident in her assessment, based on holding the diamond, let's help her get the diamond for the lower price, with a money back guarantee!
 

Lorelei

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Date: 3/10/2009 8:33:47 PM
Author: Kaleigh

Date: 3/10/2009 8:17:19 PM
Author: Ellen


Date: 3/10/2009 8:04:15 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
In my experience, the numbers of the stoneCornish looked at do not fall into the category you''re speaking of Ellen.
Cushions with depths in the low ''50''s can be gorgeous to some people.
Plus, there''s a very good chance such a stone will also have a huge spread. Just because a diamond ''performs'' poorly on ASETS and other light reflection devices does not necessarily mean that there won''t be people who will choose that stone- after comparing it to one that does score well on ASET.
Cushions in particular tend to appeal to buyers that like glitter, as opposed to sparkle.

Hopefully Cornish has had some experience looking at a few different cushions.
If not, we all agree, that''s a smart thing to do before one buys.

IMO if someone who''s seen different stones has seen a diamond, and loves that diamond, that speaks volumes.
I would agree there could be nice cushions with low depths, but not with a table this size. Seriously, I know of no vendor, and there are 2 known for selling outstanding cushions, that would sell such a stone. Why? Because it''s not well cut. A cushion tends to behave somewhat like a round, in that a smaller than depth table lends itself more to fire/scintillation. See, it''s not just a ''marketing'' gimmick, much as you''d like to think. There really is something to smaller tables combined with appropriate depth, etc. Those make prettier diamonds.

With all due respect, I really hope in the future that you will post your initial thoughts and leave it at that. I do not want to have to keep jacking up peoples threads.


And to Cornish, I sincerely apologize.
Ditto to all that Ellen said. She''s spot on. I too worry about the table size. I hope you can get us some pics cornish. It''s a lot of money and want you to get the best bang for your buck. That''s why we are here.

David, I also ditto what Ellen said to you.


Best of luck cornish!!
Thritto
 

Ellen

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Date: 3/10/2009 9:57:45 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
Guys, I realize the value of working with the numbers in the way you do. It has already been said, numbers aren't as important with fancies, we get that. However, there is a cliff with every stone, and this one most likely fell off it.
It's primarily because most of the people looking for advice here are trying to buy a diamond based, in the best case, based on good photos, ASETS, IS photos, what have you. If it's BN, we're only talking about the GIA numbers. The vast majority of people are just trying to find a really beautiful stone. You can walk in any store and buy an average to crappy cut diamond, that's not what we recommend here. That's not what most people want.

This person saw that diamond, and thought is was 'Gorgeous'. Yes she did, those jeweler lights work wonders, don't they? Notice she spoke of its "brilliance". No mention of fire, scintillation, etc. That's not to say it didn't have it, but there's no mention.
That's fairly unequivocal. See response above.
She also said the seller showed her a few stones. Yep, and how were they cut?

I am giving Cornish the benefit of the doubt in that she must be an intelligent person, with somewhat of a developed eye for what she loves. She looked at the stone and she loved it. David, she could be a rocket scientist, but if this is the first go round with diamonds (note, her post said she was initially looking at a yellow saphire, but wanted to double check her options on a diamond), she may very well have looked at a bunch of average to crappy stones and wouldn't know the difference.
It was in a jewelry store, with bright lights. Yes.
The same lights that would be hitting all the diamonds she looked at. Yes.
Maybe these were the very first cushion diamonds she's looked at, maybe not. Yep.
Maybe the seller rigged it and had some really horribly cut diamonds for her to compare to. Could be, or maybe he didn't "rig" anything and just had a bunch of not so hot stones. It happens, frequently. But don't take our word for it, we're just consumers.
But- she might be able to safely buy the diamond from WF with a money back guarantee- which is what we should be helping her to do, based on the facts in this case. Buying safely doesn't have anything to do with what I and some others are saying. Yes, she can buy it and return it. But if she isn't aware of what a great cushion looks like to begin with, what good does that do her?
What would be the answer to a stone that is knocked by people based on numbers yet preferred by the buyer? See last sentence above.


Cornish- I sincerely hope you take this all in stride and use the good people here to help. I do too.
If shes' looked at a nice amount of diamonds and is confident in her assessment, based on holding the diamond, let's help her get the diamond for the lower price, with a money back guarantee! And that great lower price is because it's not cut as well as it could be.
Cornish, if you have indeed looked at many cushions, well cut cushions, and this one speaks to you, then by all means buy it. But if you have not, which I gleaned from your post, maybe take some time to explore them. There are wonderful stones out there. And again, I apologize for this thread going off course.
 

CornishRex

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Ellen, David,

Thanks for your differing views! This is what Pricescope is all about. I indeed have looked at many many cushions - white and yellow (and plan to see more today and tomorrow!) I have also seen many yellow sapphires (from my earlier thread here about going with a sapphire instead of a diamond). I work on 48th and madison - NEXT to the diamond district basically - and so have the ease of viewing many dealers'' diamonds. The shallow diamond i posted about looks really big next to a regular 3.0ct cushion. Materialistically I love that about this diamond for the price. The dimensions (for a cushion) are large 9.03 x 8.97!! I looked at the diamond next to an H color, $35k diamond, amongst others and it definitly was not as brilliant or sparkly at that stone or some of the more expensive, deeper stones. However for me, it was sparkly enough.

I will let this forum know what happens. Still nervous about what do with Whiteflash versus the dealer. We are consulting with the setting designer who "brought" us to the diamond dealer to see if what she says.
Thanks all!
 

neatfreak

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Date: 3/11/2009 12:26:59 PM
Author: CornishRex
Ellen, David,


Thanks for your differing views! This is what Pricescope is all about. I indeed have looked at many many cushions - white and yellow (and plan to see more today and tomorrow!) I have also seen many yellow sapphires (from my earlier thread here about going with a sapphire instead of a diamond). I work on 48th and madison - NEXT to the diamond district basically - and so have the ease of viewing many dealers'' diamonds. The shallow diamond i posted about looks really big next to a regular 3.0ct cushion. Materialistically I love that about this diamond for the price. The dimensions (for a cushion) are large 9.03 x 8.97!! I looked at the diamond next to an H color, $35k diamond, amongst others and it definitly was not as brilliant or sparkly at that stone or some of the more expensive, deeper stones. However for me, it was sparkly enough.


I will let this forum know what happens. Still nervous about what do with Whiteflash versus the dealer. We are consulting with the setting designer who ''brought'' us to the diamond dealer to see if what she says.

Thanks all!
Cornish, may I suggest that if you have not compared this stone to others outside of jewelry store lighting that you do so? Jewelry store lighting often minimizes the differences between stones and it is possible that in natural daylight or office lighting this stone will be dead as a doornail.

If you''ve looked at it in different lights then don''t mind me!
 

Judah Gutwein

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Cornish,

Neatfreak is absolutely right.
You''d be doing yourself a great service by listening to that advice.

The high intensity halogens in the stores, will often make an underachieving diamond appear more brilliant and dispersive than it would in the real world lighting conditions. This is why the lighting in jewelry stores is always an important consideration...and not any less crucial than what they actually stock in their showcases.

The ''right'' lighting environment doesn''t just influence the ambiance of the store, it will actually affect and effect the visual ''appeal'' of the diamonds in the showcase.

You can ''beat the system'' by viewing these diamonds in several types of lighting environments.

Good luck!
 

CornishRex

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Judah, I hope this is not inappropriate but I noticed you have a few $19k 3 ct cushion cut, I color stones. Any availability to see? I work at 48th and madison right by the diamond district.
 

Judah Gutwein

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Cornish,

My apologies for being candid..but it is inappropriate for me to address this in this venue, I believe it is against the forum rules.
If you'd like to contact us privately, we'd be happy to help.
 

tradergirl

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Just wanted to comment on how attractive your kittykat is. I have two of those guys. I have never seen one in your cat''s color though.
 

CornishRex

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Tranks tradergirl, Jack (pictured) is actually not a cornish (I do have two cornish!). Jack is a Russian peterbald who is not breed standard (ie he has hair!!)

More pics of Jack and my other cornish

Jack 2.jpg
 
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