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3.01 Carat- 2.8 HCA Score. Help Please!!

Bonfire

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Messages
3,568
I cannot make this up. I held both diamonds this morning after your post. The associate took all my information and confirmed the hold.

I never got a confirmation email, so just chatted w JA again as I wanted to place the wire— and they NEVER put them on hold and someone took the G and placed it on hold! Ugh, I am beyond upset.

This is my own fault... I should have pulled the trigger faster and not contemplated it.

Maybe because @mrs-b was corresponding with them and they had further info to give her, they put it on hold for her? Maybe, please, maybe?
 

lulu_ma

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2020
Messages
532
To anyone following this thread...wanna hear something super cool?
@leighton1984 lives in California. And I live in Boston. And yet, as it turns out...we went to the same University in Sydney, Australia. So she's my alumni sister!

Gotta help a sister out, for sure!
Kismet!
 

mrs-b

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
8,666
Two interesting things:

Firstly, I've been getting inquiries for my EC ring since I posted my contact details on LT. I figured that would happen because that ring is killer - but - gees - they could at least wait for the For Sale sign to go up!

And - much more interesting....

@leighton1984 might have some interesting news about her...er...I mean...'the' diamond....

:mrgreen:
 

leighton1984

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 23, 2020
Messages
63
Two interesting things:

Firstly, I've been getting inquiries for my EC ring since I posted my contact details on LT. I figured that would happen because that ring is killer - but - gees - they could at least wait for the For Sale sign to go up!

And - much more interesting....

@leighton1984 might have some interesting news about her...er...I mean...'the' diamond....

:mrgreen:

THE diamond is officially on hold for me. A HUGE thank you to @mrs-b for ALL of her help w this search!

Pictures to follow as soon as I receive it!!

And thank you everyone for your kindness and support as I hopefully can finally bring this process to a close w THIS diamond!
 

sadiesunshine13

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 11, 2020
Messages
26
THE diamond is officially on hold for me. A HUGE thank you to @mrs-b for ALL of her help w this search!

Pictures to follow as soon as I receive it!!

And thank you everyone for your kindness and support as I hopefully can finally bring this process to a close w THIS diamond!

I just came here to say I am also VERY new to the PS world, and although I could not offer any constructive advice, I have been following your journey from the sidelines and this entire thread has been just so incredibly heartwarming. Everyone here is just so truly wonderful and I could not be happier that everything worked out for you. Can’t wait until you receive it and can share some pics!
 

leighton1984

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 23, 2020
Messages
63
I just came here to say I am also VERY new to the PS world, and although I could not offer any constructive advice, I have been following your journey from the sidelines and this entire thread has been just so incredibly heartwarming. Everyone here is just so truly wonderful and I could not be happier that everything worked out for you. Can’t wait until you receive it and can share some pics!

Thank you, thank you!! Yes, I’m in AWE of this community!!
 

Mlh

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
619
Two interesting things:

Firstly, I've been getting inquiries for my EC ring since I posted my contact details on LT. I figured that would happen because that ring is killer - but - gees - they could at least wait for the For Sale sign to go up!

And - much more interesting....

@leighton1984 might have some interesting news about her...er...I mean...'the' diamond....

:mrgreen:

Wait...you are selling the emerald cut? Why? I thought you loved it?
 

mrs-b

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
8,666
Wait...you are selling the emerald cut? Why? I thought you loved it?

No. I'm not - that's the point! I put it up there to put out my contact info, but there was nooooo indication it was for sale. Yet still the inquiries came in!

Stick around tho, nothing is set in stone and one day I'll de-stash.
 

Mlh

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
619
No. I'm not - that's the point! I put it up there to put out my contact info, but there was nooooo indication it was for sale. Yet still the inquiries came in!

Stick around tho, nothing is set in stone and one day I'll de-stash.

Whew....the world didn't make sense for a moment:) Thanks for clarifying @mrs-b!!
 

mrs-b

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
8,666
@mrs-b what do you think of the following?


Hi @anik7648 -

I can't say much about it, as I don't have any meaningful stats for it and the GIA triple ex range covers a lot of territory. I can see inclusions in it, but that's not unexpected for this kind of magnification.

What I can say is that I'm having trouble lining it up so I can see all the arrows at once and all in the correct form. That might be because the diamond is on a bit of a tilt, but I'm not seeing tilt, just not ideal balance.

At his point, the thing that would bother me the most, tho, is the skinny arrows. I like a lower girdle facet % on a GIA graded stone of 75%. On an AGS graded diamond, which doesn't round the LGF stats into bunches of '5s' (ie 70, 75, 80, 85), but instead goes up in increments of 1s (ie 75, 76, 77, 78, etc), and is, ergo, more accurate, my prefered measurement is normally 76 - 77 at the most. That's what gives a diamond those nice, fatter arrows. This looks like a LGF% of 80%+- and I'd guess more likely 85%. It's a pure issue of taste, but when the arrows are too skinny, you lose obvious distinction within the pattern, and I'm not a fan of that. In some combinations, an LGF of 80% can appear to give you more...twinkle? sparkle, perhaps? But I feel you lose definition and the hearts and arrows pattern is less obvious. On the other hand, if the other stats aren't ideal, that hearts and arrows pattern will probably be 'mushy' anyway.

A lot of people can't see the difference between skinnier and fatter arrows, once the diamond is on the hand. I can, and I dislike the splintery effect. But it really is personal preference, up to a point, tho I DO think an LGF over 80 starts to impact the beauty of a stone quite noticeably.

But perhaps more important is the crown angle / pavilion angle duo, and I can't just guess that without the stats. So I'm not a lot of help to you in that regard, I'm sorry. All up, from what I can see, I'd say - "Not bad, but not for me." But any one of the important stats could be 'off', and that would make it a no-go. You'll need to call or online-chat with JA and ask for the cert, which they'll email to you.

Good luck!
 

msop04

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Messages
9,929
This is such a heartwarming thread... Kudos to @mrs-b - she's a freaking saint! I'm excited to see the ring, OP!

FWIW, I had a 3.33 I/SI2 that I loved, but recently upgraded to a 3.38 G/VS2 with "closer to ideal" specs... and although I was totally good with the I color, the G is absolute PERFECTION! You won't be disappointed!! Yay for you!!!
 

diamondsR4eVR

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 8, 2019
Messages
955
Although I am not color sensitive and I’m totally okay with warmer diamonds G color is my sweet spot. Congratulations!
 

nala

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
Messages
5,325
This is such a heartwarming thread... Kudos to @mrs-b - she's a freaking saint! I'm excited to see the ring, OP!

FWIW, I had a 3.33 I/SI2 that I loved, but recently upgraded to a 3.38 G/VS2 with "closer to ideal" specs... and although I was totally good with the I color, the G is absolute PERFECTION! You won't be disappointed!! Yay for you!!!

Ok. I have to threadjack! Do you have a smtb thread on this new ring? What did I miss!
 

Nancy Z

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 28, 2020
Messages
115
Re ideal vs super ideal....

There are two main diamond graders in the US: GIA and AGS, and they use different categories. The highest category for AGS is 'ideal'. The highest for GIA is 'excellent'. NEITHER has a 'super ideal' category. Super ideal is just a term used by diamond sellers - NOT by the GIA or AGS - to say "this diamond is in the top, tiny segment of the best of the best". Both GIA's excellent and AGS's ideal are a range, not an exact point. So not all excellent GIA stones, nor all AGS ideal stones, are equal. So vendors started using the term 'super ideal' to describe diamonds that were at the very top of the ideal or excellent ranges. They're the best of the best. Or at least, they're meant to be.....

If you'd been on PS long enough, and read widely enough, you'd see that sometimes even with these very elite diamond companies, a stone occasionally slips through - gets the super ideal term attached to it - yet turns out to be not as tightly cut as it should be. I've seen this happen more than once, and I've seen PriceScope member eagle eyes pick it up and refer that diamond back to whichever company was holding it. So all that to say - super ideal isn't an exact category, but is 99.9999% of the time reliable as being the best of the best.

James Allen and Blue Nile never use the expression 'super ideal' - for very good reason. Since they don't hold most of their diamonds in house, they can't guarantee the very specific, highly detailed cutting associated with a super ideal diamond. That's not to say that diamonds cut that well NEVER pop up on BN's or JA's inventory - they do - and I owned one of them - a photo of which I posted earlier in this thread. Just because a diamond is sold by JA or BN doesn't mean it CAN'T be a 'super ideal' - it just means it's not as likely, since companies that sell diamonds of the super ideal caliber cut their own diamonds in house and control all means of production, then guarantee it.

I should say at this point that I've owned many super ideal diamonds. But the most beautiful diamond I've ever owned was, in fact, a Blue Nile diamond. It wasn't from their virtual inventory - it was one of their signature cuts (now called Astor Ideals), which they cut themselves. But even with their signature cuts, Blue Nile doesn't guarantee 'super ideal' status, as it's just a term they've chosen not to use. And of course, as soon as you designate some of your diamonds super ideal, the implication is that most aren't, which may or may not be true, and may also be a disastrous marketing strategy! You can also fall into the hole that I feel Brian Gavin Diamonds fell into. They had their signature cut - which are super ideals. THEN they introduced 'Brian Gavin Black' - which were meant to be 'even BETTER super ideals!'. At that point, a lot of us were left asking - where are we on the whole ideal, super ideal, 'even better than super ideal' thing?? It's a valid question. And on the other hand, some of your very high end companies don't use the term at all, as their implication is that ALL their diamonds are 'super ideal'.

So - is this becoming more clear? 'Super ideal' is a term, not a grading category. Grading categories are given by GIA or AGS (or other grading houses, but AGS and GIA are the most exacting and generally considered the best). The AGS ideal grade, and GIA excellent grade, are both categories, not exact points, so there is range within them. The GIA excellent range is wider than the AGS ideal range for cut, but that doesn't negate it from having diamonds in it some vendors would refer to as 'super ideals'. The super ideal term is used by vendors or cutters, not graders, to indicate 'the best of the best'.

The 3.03 G SI1 diamond falls into the GIA 'excellent' category. Had it been graded by AGS, it *might* have fallen into the 'ideal' category also, as its stats are very good. But just by eye-balling it, it appears to be a very lovely diamond. The other diamond I linked - the 3.32 I SI1 is an AGS ideal, so - very well cut indeed! - and very likely to be a diamond some vendors would refer to as a super-ideal. However, despite how important cut is (and iT IS!) - so is color and clarity - and the 3.03 has the 3.32 beat on those categories. The 3.32 I SI1 is .3mm wider in diameter, but on a diamond of that size, .3mm isn't going to be glaringly different. And let me just reiterate - you will NOT see any difference in size between the 3.03 and the 3.01 you had. It's less than 1/10th of a mm - too small for the eye to detect, especially at that size.

So your choice is this: slightly better cut, slightly bigger, but noticeably warmer with more inclusions vs slightly less exacting cut, slightly smaller, noticeably whiter and cleaner. For my money, so long as both cuts are excellent (and they are), I'd take whiter and cleaner.

But - and this is the whole point....

That's me. This is YOUR diamond. What matters to you?

I have been following this story all along and am so glad @leighton1984 was finally able to get the diamond she wanted! Congratulations! Can’t wait to see some pics! :love:

@mrs-b Thank you for your thorough explanation and I know it’s more geared toward Leighton but I’ve been following along and learning from you as well. I was just wondering if you could please kindly elaborate on the VISUAL differences between ideals and super ideals? I’ve recently upgrade through BN as well and only learned about super ideals after becoming a PSer. Since I’m already tied up with BN it’s impossible to transition to vendors like Whiteflash or VC at this point and I have yet to own any super ideals. So I’m just super curious and keep wondering if it’ll be a noticeable visual difference between an ideal and super ideal? Would it be a noticeable difference to any untrained naked eyes or just minuscule difference only detectable by eagle eye owners or is it only a difference in numbers on certificate? Basically I just want to know what am I missing here by not having a super ideal??

Thank you again for your kindness!::)
 

nala

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
Messages
5,325
I have been following this story all along and am so glad @leighton1984 was finally able to get the diamond she wanted! Congratulations! Can’t wait to see some pics! :love:

@mrs-b Thank you for your thorough explanation and I know it’s more geared toward Leighton but I’ve been following along and learning from you as well. I was just wondering if you could please kindly elaborate on the VISUAL differences between ideals and super ideals? I’ve recently upgrade through BN as well and only learned about super ideals after becoming a PSer. Since I’m already tied up with BN it’s impossible to transition to vendors like Whiteflash or VC at this point and I have yet to own any super ideals. So I’m just super curious and keep wondering if it’ll be a noticeable visual difference between an ideal and super ideal? Would it be a noticeable difference to any untrained naked eyes or just minuscule difference only detectable by eagle eye owners or is it only a difference in numbers on certificate? Basically I just want to know what am I missing here by not having a super ideal??

Thank you again for your kindness!::)

You can do a search and you will find sooo many threads on your questions!
 

mrs-b

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
8,666
Hi @Nancy Z -

Please go back and start by reading post #111 in this thread. The grading scale for GIA is Poor / Fair / Good / Very Good / Excellent. For AGS it's 0 - 10. 0 is ideal, 1 is excellent, 2 is very good, 3-4 is good, 5-7 is fair and 8-10 is poor. Nobody has a category called 'super ideal'. Super ideal diamonds exist WITHIN either the AGS ideal range, or the GIA excellent range. Super ideal is a term used by industry retailers and cutters, not graders.

So what you're basically asking is - what's the difference between 'not as good' and 'the best of the best', and those differences are endless: brighter vs not as bright, precisely balanced vs unbalanced, sparkly and/or scintillating vs dull (I'm talking about the extreme ends of the spectrum here), overly white without sparkle vs sparkly but dark, perfect light return vs leakage or obstruction....the list is endless and depends on which one of the %'s and angles are ideal / not ideal, or any combination of factors - some of which can balance each other out, allowing angles to work in harmony, or not. Can the untrained eye see the difference? Probably. Not always. Mostly. But just remember, just because you can see the difference doesn't mean you'll like it. Just because it's more rare, doesn't make it automatically more to your taste.

I've owned dozens of diamonds that would be categorized as super ideals. Two of them came from Blue Nile. One was a signature cut of theirs and one wasn't, so don't rule out a diamond just because it comes from a company that doesn't use the super ideal banner for their stones.

As @nala said, tho, there are a whole bunch of threads on PS about this, so type what you want to know into the search box in Rocky Talky and dive in!

And always remember, unless you're a collector looking for a particular set of specs, buy a diamond because you think it's beautiful. Your diamond has to fit YOUR taste - nobody else's!

Good luck!
 

Honeybasil

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 26, 2019
Messages
362
I have loved reading this thread. I can’t wait to see this diamond when it arrives. So fun!
 

munchee

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 12, 2011
Messages
426
@Nancy Z I don’t believe to categorize diamond performance by vendors. I believe that every single diamond is different, regardless who sells them.
However, with Super ideals vendors, they already vetted the some of the best fish in the ocean, where as in BN, JA, other online vendors, you need to find it yourself. Even that, they have the top line too (which might also the best diamond that they sell) and the price tags are not far different than WF, HPD, VC, they’re maybe slightly cheaper but with them its hard to do upgrades, while its really easy to upgrade with “Super ideal vendors”. I believe we can find “super ideal” quality anywhere but it takes patience and a lot of time and energy.

As for the performance, can you see it with naked eye/not, etc. If you never own “the best” you’ll be satisfied with the “good” one. But once you owned, familiar and love “the best”, there’s no way going back! My family have no knowledge about diamond, they owned diamond themselves but they have zero knowledge about diamond, and they acknowledge that my ACA is different than theirs.

I believe not all ACA, CBI,CIH, BGD are all the same tho. Even I love my small ACA but I can’t love all ACA.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
16,038
FYI - I have not read this thread but did notice you took a photo in sunlight and the diamond looked black. That is really good. Bad cuts look good in direct sunlight.
I wrote about that a few times here. And have a blog on the topic - you should be able to find it.
As Karl wrote - this is on the verge - if the pavilion angle is 41.11 then it will look great.
Personally I think +2ct for colorless you should be at G, but it is a personal thing.
 

leighton1984

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 23, 2020
Messages
63
FYI - I have not read this thread but did notice you took a photo in sunlight and the diamond looked black. That is really good. Bad cuts look good in direct sunlight.
I wrote about that a few times here. And have a blog on the topic - you should be able to find it.
As Karl wrote - this is on the verge - if the pavilion angle is 41.11 then it will look great.
Personally I think +2ct for colorless you should be at G, but it is a personal thing.

Hi Gary, I think you may be responding to my original diamond....and ended up returning based on feedback from everyone. @mrs-b was amazing-- and found two additional diamonds that would potentially be better options in my similar price range.

Update to everyone: I purchased BOTH diamonds from JA (above thread)-- because as @mrs-b has learned-- I am very, very indecisive... and really want to make sure I find a diamond I am absolutely in love with-- and confident in my purchase-- because I really never want to replace or upgrade down the road (call me sappy;))... I still wear my grandmother's engagement/wedding ring combo on my right hand-- and just love it...

Sounds like they are on track to ship out next week, so will keep you all posted as soon as I receive-- and will absolutely post pictures-- and want your feedback!

Thank you again to everyone!
 
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