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#JOTW 2.11 D VS2 HPD CBI

daisygrl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
645
Just checking how you like your ring. And also popped in to ask whether your culet is visible or not... I am going back and forth with mine, thinking I should have it reset. Any input would be appreciated.
 

LLJsmom

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
10,388
Just checking how you like your ring. And also popped in to ask whether your culet is visible or not... I am going back and forth with mine, thinking I should have it reset. Any input would be appreciated.

Hi @daisygrl, I can fill you in more later but to answer your question, I think my culet was visible. I haven't discussed this but I returned the ring. The short story is that I want something bigger, and there just isn't enough CBI inventory in the color I want at the moment. And, I discovered that I want more fire under the table, which actually the E CBI I had before this one, did exhibit. But I didn't go back to the E because it just wasn't the size I wanted. After having lived with both a D and an E, I can say that I prioritize colorful fire more than the ICY white of a D. I can live with an E. I am over the I-need-icy-white because I need it. My room is light yellow and even a D will show the yellow, albeit very very slightly. It's not the diamond's fault. And there is something I love about an E. I've generally had the best experience with Es.

I am on the hunt again, and I found a stone is super fiery, but I need to live with it longer before I can commit. Choosing MRBs is hard, harder than OECs. There is a very specific type of MRB that I favor, and they are usually NOT super ideals. However, I am learning to appreciate super ideals as well. And even super ideals have such different personalities, between each stone, really, much more than between each vendor. I have a whole pro/con list of both types, and I am still adding to them.

This ring is part of a longer term project for me, so it may look very different in a year.

How are you thinking about resetting your stone?
 

daisygrl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
645
Hi @daisygrl, I can fill you in more later but to answer your question, I think my culet was visible. I haven't discussed this but I returned the ring. The short story is that I want something bigger, and there just isn't enough CBI inventory in the color I want at the moment. And, I discovered that I want more fire under the table, which actually the E CBI I had before this one, did exhibit. But I didn't go back to the E because it just wasn't the size I wanted. After having lived with both a D and an E, I can say that I prioritize colorful fire more than the ICY white of a D. I can live with an E. I am over the I-need-icy-white because I need it. My room is light yellow and even a D will show the yellow, albeit very very slightly. It's not the diamond's fault. And there is something I love about an E. I've generally had the best experience with Es.

I am on the hunt again, and I found a stone is super fiery, but I need to live with it longer before I can commit. Choosing MRBs is hard, harder than OECs. There is a very specific type of MRB that I favor, and they are usually NOT super ideals. However, I am learning to appreciate super ideals as well. And even super ideals have such different personalities, between each stone, really, much more than between each vendor. I have a whole pro/con list of both types, and I am still adding to them.

This ring is part of a longer term project for me, so it may look very different in a year.

How are you thinking about resetting your stone?

I am sorry to hear that your D stone did not meet your expectation since you were so excited about it (and we were with you). I hope you will find what you are looking for - definitely test them out before committing at all lightnings -if possible. A good thing is that you have learned what you like. I am also longing for a bigger stone but there is nothing available at the moment.

I would like my stone to be set a bit higher so that I would be able to see the culet. I do not see the culet in way it is set currently (I am not sure whether it is good or bad). To be honest, I am thinking of getting an entirely different stone. Huh, I agree, this is hard. Way harder than I thought it would be. :wall:
 

LLJsmom

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
10,388
I am sorry to hear that your D stone did not meet your expectation since you were so excited about it (and we were with you). I hope you will find what you are looking for - definitely test them out before committing at all lightnings -if possible. A good thing is that you have learned what you like. I am also longing for a bigger stone but there is nothing available at the moment.

I would like my stone to be set a bit higher so that I would be able to see the culet. I do not see the culet in way it is set currently (I am not sure whether it is good or bad). To be honest, I am thinking of getting an entirely different stone. Huh, I agree, this is hard. Way harder than I thought it would be. :wall:

The height is so personal. It's weird cause I like an MRB a little higher and an OEC lower. But MY higher is probably someone's low. To me, the Boston setting is inherently high for me so I'm ok with it.

So what kind of stone are you thinking? Are you sticking with CBI? Different specs, or a different look but still with CBI? What's interesting that even with CBI I could see a slight difference in performance, between the E and the D, well at least to my eyes.
 

daisygrl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
645
The height is so personal. It's weird cause I like an MRB a little higher and an OEC lower. But MY higher is probably someone's low. To me, the Boston setting is inherently high for me so I'm ok with it.

So what kind of stone are you thinking? Are you sticking with CBI? Different specs, or a different look but still with CBI? What's interesting that even with CBI I could see a slight difference in performance, between the E and the D, well at least to my eyes.

I would like to stick with CBI as I really like their stones (more of my personality, if that makes sense) and their craftsmanship. I have never had problems with them (only couple of mini ones, which is really nothing). I really hope they will be getting more inventory soon.

I believe yours had a thicker donut, thus was a bit higher than mine - I want it a bit higher but not too much higher as I will be banging it everywhere but I also would like to see a culet. I am not even sure if Wink can do it without redoing the entire basket but will ask.

It is funny how every stone has its own performance, characteristics, personality. It is fascinating, really. Your parameters for diamonds are tight but surely doable, so hopefully, you will soon find something you really love (and you seem to be close, I hear). I love everything about my current stone except the size. :lol: At least, you still have your OEC to enjoy.
 
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LLJsmom

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
10,388
@Mlh @Lessics @munchee @Bonfire

With the CBI, I had compromised primarily with size. I thought I could wait to upgrade in size at a later date. Let's just say that I cannot wait another 2-3 years for that to happen. So I had to get much closer to my ideal size, which is closer to 2.5-3 cts. The D stone was a compromise in that it had less colorful sparkle than the 2.11 E I tried right before, especially under the table. Why didn't I keep the E initially? Because in my mind, I saw tint (damn yellow walls) in the E and thought it might be because of the E. Then I got the D, and still saw it. That told me it was the walls, and probably my paranoia. And the D was truly ICY, and I thought over time that would make me happier than the colorful light return of the E. It didn't. But what drove me to return the D was primarily the size. So I learned that the E was my sweet spot. I thought that a D in a CBI would be like the E, just as much colorful sparkle but even whiter body. I was wrong. So I also learned that no two CBIs performed exactly the same.

Before I saw the E CBI, I had tried a 2.635 F ACA. It did not have enough colorful sparkle and scintillation, and seemed tinted to me. I returned that very quickly.

Back to the present, after returning the D. I was essentially starting over, so I had to figure out what I want. There is a stunning 3 carat H AGS 000 (not mine), which is not super ideal to which that I have been comparing all the stones I have received. None seemed to capture my heart way this stone did.

I ordered a 3 ct H ACA to see if I loved the weird AGS000 because of the size, since all the stones I have ordered so far have been significantly smaller. Side by side, it was clear that I loved non-super ideal more, although the H was very pretty but too tinted. I didn't love the weird AGS stone because of the size, but because of the stone itself. But, this size of ACA allowed me to observe the arrows of the ACA more, understand the purpose of the precision cutting, and the roll it plays with the diamond look as a whole, the contrasting light play resulting from the blinking on and off of the arrows.

After having seen so many higher color super ideals, it finally hit me that maybe none of them will exhibit the random large flashes and mostly white and colored light return of this weird AGS stone because the precision cutting of super ideals will inherently exhibit darker arrows. So it led to the potential conclusion that super ideals may not be for me. (And I didn't mention this before, but the CBIs that I tried had the least obvious arrows.)

However, I am not ready to leave the super ideal world yet. I needed to stay in the colorless zone so I am currently testing an E ACA close to 2.5 carats. This is the most lively and colorful, and with the most under the table fire super ideal that I have yet received. I am going to live with it for a while to see how I feel about it over time. I will admit that the precision cutting does result in a very crisp look to the flashes, which appeals to the OCD in me, and the arrows are stunning to see in certain lighting environments. So at this point, the jury is still out...

Lastly I want to say how awesome both HPD and WF have been. Truly. I have nothing but wonderful things to say about both vendors, and I am most grateful for their time and effort to help me find the perfect stone for me.
 

LLJsmom

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
10,388
Interesting turn of events LLJsmom!
I love the look of this beautiful icy EC on you. Any thoughts of going the step cut route?


86D97D3D-63EC-42B7-ABF5-A95811A8D5CF.jpeg

Hi @Bonfire , yes actually I have considered a step cut. I've actually ordered some fake ones from Berricle, and I've worn them. They are super easy on the eyes, but it seems I get bored of them rather quickly. The sparkle of the rounds keep my attention longer. =)2
 

munchee

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 12, 2011
Messages
171
@Mlh @Lessics @munchee @Bonfire

With the CBI, I had compromised primarily with size. I thought I could wait to upgrade in size at a later date. Let's just say that I cannot wait another 2-3 years for that to happen. So I had to get much closer to my ideal size, which is closer to 2.5-3 cts. The D stone was a compromise in that it had less colorful sparkle than the 2.11 E I tried right before, especially under the table. Why didn't I keep the E initially? Because in my mind, I saw tint (damn yellow walls) in the E and thought it might be because of the E. Then I got the D, and still saw it. That told me it was the walls, and probably my paranoia. And the D was truly ICY, and I thought over time that would make me happier than the colorful light return of the E. It didn't. But what drove me to return the D was primarily the size. So I learned that the E was my sweet spot. I thought that a D in a CBI would be like the E, just as much colorful sparkle but even whiter body. I was wrong. So I also learned that no two CBIs performed exactly the same.

Before I saw the E CBI, I had tried a 2.635 F ACA. It did not have enough colorful sparkle and scintillation, and seemed tinted to me. I returned that very quickly.

Back to the present, after returning the D. I was essentially starting over, so I had to figure out what I want. There is a stunning 3 carat H AGS 000 (not mine), which is not super ideal to which that I have been comparing all the stones I have received. None seemed to capture my heart way this stone did.

I ordered a 3 ct H ACA to see if I loved the weird AGS000 because of the size, since all the stones I have ordered so far have been significantly smaller. Side by side, it was clear that I loved non-super ideal more, although the H was very pretty but too tinted. I didn't love the weird AGS stone because of the size, but because of the stone itself. But, this size of ACA allowed me to observe the arrows of the ACA more, understand the purpose of the precision cutting, and the roll it plays with the diamond look as a whole, the contrasting light play resulting from the blinking on and off of the arrows.

After having seen so many higher color super ideals, it finally hit me that maybe none of them will exhibit the random large flashes and mostly white and colored light return of this weird AGS stone because the precision cutting of super ideals will inherently exhibit darker arrows. So it led to the potential conclusion that super ideals may not be for me. (And I didn't mention this before, but the CBIs that I tried had the least obvious arrows.)

However, I am not ready to leave the super ideal world yet. I needed to stay in the colorless zone so I am currently testing an E ACA close to 2.5 carats. This is the most lively and colorful, and with the most under the table fire super ideal that I have yet received. I am going to live with it for a while to see how I feel about it over time. I will admit that the precision cutting does result in a very crisp look to the flashes, which appeals to the OCD in me, and the arrows are stunning to see in certain lighting environments. So at this point, the jury is still out...

Lastly I want to say how awesome both HPD and WF have been. Truly. I have nothing but wonderful things to say about both vendors, and I am most grateful for their time and effort to help me find the perfect stone for me.

Does this E that you’re currently considering also went dark at some certain lighting?
 

munchee

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 12, 2011
Messages
171
@LLJsmom I have a question, when you ty “feeling” these diamonds, do you wear the ring ofter? Or just take it out from the box certain times a days to “feel” it? And once the 30days inspection period is up, when you return it, do they take the ring back and you get 100% refund for the ring? Or you only get full refund of the diamond?
 

Mlh

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
588
Ooh thank you for that @LLJsmom ! Was it the stats of each stone that made the difference for you? I know you prefer the smaller table, etc. yes? Were you able to see what you were looking for in the videos or just in real life?
 

LLJsmom

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
10,388
Does this E that you’re currently considering also went dark at some certain lighting?

Yes, it does. That doesn't bother me though because very very rarely does it get subjected to full blast sunlight for prolonged periods of time. That is true for most of the diamonds I have had. Most of the time in sunlight it looks like this. I'll post a pic soon. That is not a factor for me.
 

LLJsmom

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
10,388
@LLJsmom I have a question, when you ty “feeling” these diamonds, do you wear the ring ofter? Or just take it out from the box certain times a days to “feel” it? And once the 30days inspection period is up, when you return it, do they take the ring back and you get 100% refund for the ring? Or you only get full refund of the diamond?

I use the spring ring and I wear it for 5-6 hours throughout the day, at various times, in various rooms throughout my house. I take pics and videos everywhere. I have never kept it for 30 days. I can tell right away, or I return after 3-5 days. With CBI, since I bought the setting from them, I have to keep the setting. I returned the stone only and got a full refund. I have an empty 2 carat setting right now.

Actually I kept the D CBI for almost 3 weeks. But I had that set. Every other stone I tried loose or in a spring ring.
 
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LLJsmom

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
10,388
Ooh thank you for that @LLJsmom ! Was it the stats of each stone that made the difference for you? I know you prefer the smaller table, etc. yes? Were you able to see what you were looking for in the videos or just in real life?

The AGS stone had a 79 LGF, which may explain why I barely see any dark arrows. It has a big table, over 57, which allows me to see more fire under the table. And my opinions are based on my real life observations. Videos do not capture the various colors that my eyes see. Maybe a more technical person can explain why. But I do trust my eyes when it comes to colorful light return.
 

Mlh

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
588
The AGS stone had a 79 LGF, which may explain why I barely see any dark arrows. It has a big table, over 57, which allows me to see more fire under the table. And my opinions are based on my real life observations. Videos do not capture the various colors that my eyes see. Maybe a more technical person can explain why. But I do trust my eyes when it comes to colorful light return.

So interesting! I can't wait to see your new stone. I am jealous that you have seen enough stones in person to have a clear understanding of what you like to see!!
 

munchee

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 12, 2011
Messages
171
The AGS stone had a 79 LGF, which may explain why I barely see any dark arrows. It has a big table, over 57, which allows me to see more fire under the table. And my opinions are based on my real life observations. Videos do not capture the various colors that my eyes see. Maybe a more technical person can explain why. But I do trust my eyes when it comes to colorful light return.

this actually matches with what other PSers years ago have discussed. So I’m doing alot if reading of why Super Ideal diamonds goes dark. The answer is smaller LGF and smaller table. In that thread they’re discussing why super ideal diamonds make 77 LGF instead of 80. And 54 table 76-77 LGF certainly make diamond goes dark. I found a H GIA 3ex that have 80% LGF 57% table with HCA score 1.4 and I’m considering to get that one but the upgrade policy stopped me from going that route =)2 If I want to upgrade I need to spend twice of the original $$$$$ which will make it close to $100k I don’t see myself will get a $100k diamond=)2
 

LLJsmom

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
10,388
So interesting! I can't wait to see your new stone. I am jealous that you have seen enough stones in person to have a clear understanding of what you like to see!!

It’s a blessing and a curse. If I had never seen this stone I would be perfectly happy with a stone I’ve seen before. The hard thing is that super ideals would
Never be caught dead with a 79 LGF. LOL!!
 

LLJsmom

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
10,388
this actually matches with what other PSers years ago have discussed. So I’m doing alot if reading of why Super Ideal diamonds goes dark. The answer is smaller LGF and smaller table. In that thread they’re discussing why super ideal diamonds make 77 LGF instead of 80. And 54 table 76-77 LGF certainly make diamond goes dark. I found a H GIA 3ex that have 80% LGF 57% table with HCA score 1.4 and I’m considering to get that one but the upgrade policy stopped me from going that route =)2 If I want to upgrade I need to spend twice of the original $$$$$ which will make it close to $100k I don’t see myself will get a $100k diamond=)2

But don't forget about the issue of potential leakage. Before my OEC, I had a GIA 3X F that was on the steeper and deeper side that showed leakage. One of the pros of a super ideal is the lack of leakage. Whichever stone you choose, definitely live with and scrutinize it as much as possible. It took me a long time to see the leakage on the old GIA 3X. And yes, I agree that one of the issues with not going with a super ideal vendor is not having the upgrade policy. Yup....
 

munchee

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 12, 2011
Messages
171
But don't forget about the issue of potential leakage. Before my OEC, I had a GIA 3X F that was on the steeper and deeper side that showed leakage. One of the pros of a super ideal is the lack of leakage. Whichever stone you choose, definitely live with and scrutinize it as much as possible. It took me a long time to see the leakage on the old GIA 3X. And yes, I agree that one of the issues with not going with a super ideal vendor is not having the upgrade policy. Yup....

Will 1.4 HCA still show leakage? This diamond is actually not deep, I think its a really good cut. The only thing stopping me getting this is the upgrade policy
Depth 61.6%
Table 57%
crown angle 35
Pav 40.8
Crown height 15%
Star length 50%
LG 80%
 

daisygrl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
645
But don't forget about the issue of potential leakage. Before my OEC, I had a GIA 3X F that was on the steeper and deeper side that showed leakage. One of the pros of a super ideal is the lack of leakage. Whichever stone you choose, definitely live with and scrutinize it as much as possible. It took me a long time to see the leakage on the old GIA 3X. And yes, I agree that one of the issues with not going with a super ideal vendor is not having the upgrade policy. Yup....

Totally agree. About a year ago, I was so close to buy a Tiffany ring (they are known to be a bit steeper and deeper) but the occasional leakage under the table drove me nuts. Back then, I thought Tiffany is as perfect as they come until I saw the actual stone. I looked at 4 Tiffany stones (because I believed I needed Tiffany as I love brands) but they all had some issues my eyes could not unsee.
 
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LLJsmom

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
10,388
Will 1.4 HCA still show leakage? This diamond is actually not deep, I think its a really good cut. The only thing stopping me getting this is the upgrade policy
Depth 61.6%
Table 57%
crown angle 35
Pav 40.8
Crown height 15%
Star length 50%
LG 80%

I honestly think a GIA certificate alone will not tell you. I sure a heck couldn't tell. Just not enough info. I would try to get an ASET image, and definitely you would need to see in real life for yourself. Make sure you have a return option.
 

daisygrl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
645
Will 1.4 HCA still show leakage? This diamond is actually not deep, I think its a really good cut. The only thing stopping me getting this is the upgrade policy
Depth 61.6%
Table 57%
crown angle 35
Pav 40.8
Crown height 15%
Star length 50%
LG 80%

Get ASET to examine any leakage (numbers alone mean nothing). If you care for symmetry, get also H&A images.
 

munchee

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 12, 2011
Messages
171
@LLJsmom @daisygrl I surely will not get this diamond... However I’m really curious of how this particular diamond ASET looks like, but its just out of curiosity. I definitely will not get it due to the upgrade policy. I will not get a stone without good lifetime upgrade policy =)2
 

Mlh

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
588
It’s a blessing and a curse. If I had never seen this stone I would be perfectly happy with a stone I’ve seen before. The hard thing is that super ideals would
Never be caught dead with a 79 LGF. LOL!!

I think I remember @Karl_K saying that the 80 lgf can be brighter. Not sure. Maybe he will weigh in. Nonetheless, you know what you like...so lucky in my eyes. I am still learning:)
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
10,823
I think I remember @Karl_K saying that the 80 lgf can be brighter. Not sure. Maybe he will weigh in. Nonetheless, you know what you like...so lucky in my eyes. I am still learning:)
Depends on the combo.
Shallow or steep pavilions and smaller tables can get help from longer lgf%.
shallow: long arrows are smaller so less area of darkeness due to obstruction.

deep: long lgf% means the lower girdle angle is shallower and can eliminate under table leakage.

smaller table: a long lgf% takes up less room under the table so overall there is less darkness under the table.

Pavilions in the 40.6-40.9 range can handle a wide range range of lgf%
77%-78% lgf% is near universal and works with the most combinations. Gia in their infinite stupidity calls one 75 and the other 80%.
 

Mlh

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
588
Depends on the combo.
Shallow or steep pavilions and smaller tables can get help from longer lgf%.
shallow: long arrows are smaller so less area of darkeness due to obstruction.

deep: long lgf% means the lower girdle angle is shallower and can eliminate under table leakage.

smaller table: a long lgf% takes up less room under the table so overall there is less darkness under the table.

Pavilions in the 40.6-40.9 range can handle a wide range range of lgf%
77%-78% lgf% is near universal and works with the most combinations. Gia in their infinite stupidity calls one 75 and the other 80%.

Thank you @Karl_K! I learn so much from you!
 

LLJsmom

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
10,388
Depends on the combo.
Shallow or steep pavilions and smaller tables can get help from longer lgf%.
shallow: long arrows are smaller so less area of darkeness due to obstruction.

deep: long lgf% means the lower girdle angle is shallower and can eliminate under table leakage.

smaller table: a long lgf% takes up less room under the table so overall there is less darkness under the table.

Pavilions in the 40.6-40.9 range can handle a wide range range of lgf%
77%-78% lgf% is near universal and works with the most combinations. Gia in their infinite stupidity calls one 75 and the other 80%.

Thank you so much @Karl_K . I definitely appreciate this flavor of MRB.

Here are some pics of the WF ACA next to the AGS000 with LGF 79, CA 35.4, PA 40.9, table 57.4 and depth 62.

To me the look of the ACA is clearly discernible from the non-super ideal. There is one pic that shows on the non super ideal flashes of color on three separate spots at any given moment. I see that often. With the ACA I see 1-2 different spots light up at any given moment. But the ACA is still very beautiful. You will also notice the very dark arrows but the other diamond shows smaller dark arrows that are not as dark and less frequently. In indirect sunlight the precision of the arrows of the ACA is stunning to behold. And in certain lighting the difference in body color is quite marked but in other lighting barely noticeable if at all.
 

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