1.7ct vs 2.0ct

[TreeScientist]

And as for the color, I would highly recommend against going with a J-color sight unseen. If you don't know your girlfriend's color sensitivity, there's a very high chance she's going to be able to see some color in a J. H seems to be the limit where most on here would agree it looks "white." At I and beyond is where discrepancies in color sensitivity start to arise. Many say that I still looks white. A few say that J looks white. But you really won't know how your girlfriend will react to color unless you've taken her to a jewelry store and looked at the various colors together. That's why most on here recommend that, if your purchasing the ring as a surprise (meaning without input from the other person), then H is a safe upper limit in color.

If you were thinking about setting the diamond in a halo or bezel where the side view would be obstructed, then a J might be OK. But in a prong setting she will be able to see the side profile of the diamond quite frequently. Remember, women don't always have their hand cocked at a 45 degree angle to see the diamond face-up at all times. So the side-color is also important.

And a final thing to keep in mind is the Pave color. Most of the non-custom rings come with F-G pave diamonds. So a J color would likely look "off" next to the F-G pave. It's typically safe to be within +/- one color grade of the pave, so for F-G pave, center stones in the E-H range would "match" the best.

 

[Belic]

@TreeScientist
@diamondseeker2006 She's a size 5.75
@LaylaR She has seen a 2ct in a shoppingmall display and didn't seem to be frighten! However she didn't try it out.

Hmm, I was pretty much set on a J, to me, when checkin comparisons of the diamonds up side down on a different screens the tint is really minimal. I can't imaging she being bothered with a slight tint from the side? She has never talked about colour, cut or clarity. Most local shops here has H, Si1 & very good cut. Again only seen from the display with spotlights etc, but even then the diamonds has looked quite dead

I mean with the reference of 0.3-0.5, H, Si1 and quite poor cut, a Super Ideal J VS2 should really overshine?

 

[TreeScientist]

Cut only affects face-up color. Well cut diamonds look whiter face-up due to their incredible light return. But a poorly cut H will look pretty much the same as a SuperIdeal H from the side.

And there is quite a large difference between H and J. The color brackets get wider as you go down the color scale. Even going from H to I can be a large jump, depending on whether the two diamonds in question are "high" or "low" in those color grades.

 

[TreeScientist]

Whiteflash has a ton of 1.4ish carat H/VS2s in stock right now, and all within your budget of around $12k. Looks like they had a recent re-stock in that size range. I would check these out to see if any of them catch your eye, and then have thw WF reps pull a few and ask them which is the "highest H" or the "closest to G color" and then go with that one. You really can't go wrong with an ACA, so it depends on which one has the most appealing inclusion plot to you and which is the "highest H"

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3965468.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3980392.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3986357.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3986360.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3986359.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3947713.htm

I like the 1.430 carat the best, but any would be beautiful.

 

[McGinnis]

Hey Belic, judging by how she has saved a large stone on the computer and has said she likes the three row pave, I would definitely take her to be more concerned with having a larger stone than a smaller one. Having said that, a difference between a 1.7 and 2 carat stone being about .4mm is essentially costing you $1,000 or so. Will she care that there is .4mm of a stone that's missing if you give her a 1.7 carat honker? I dont know but I doubt it. As for the setting, we're looking out for your fiance's future in terms of when it comes to having to wear other rings with the e-ring as well as having to take the ring off for basic tasks/getting the ring fixed everytime a melee falls out BUT if the point of your surprise proposal is to blow her away, I think letting her figure out that she wants/needs a simpler mounting in the future is better than giving her something thats only close to what she thinks is her dream ring. All this money spent for a 99% grade isn't worth it if you're not hitting the main points that she's already given you (directly or indirectly)

 

[Belic]

@TreeScientist Thanks for the suggestions! However, below 1.6 will never happen, my ego won't allow it

@McGinnis Might be true! I'm not even sure if she will have a eternity ring once we get married. Will consider doing something similar to this,
https://www.google.se/search?q=tiffany+pave&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=VPZ5oOzp7-0vUM%3A%2C441O7wMgoa0O7M%2C_&usg=__pCNEl3om0J66ihbL4HLRk_DfEFI=&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjC8733lf3aAhWpiqYKHZmWAasQ9QEIODAC#imgrc=VPZ5oOzp7-0vUM:

Might be more durable or just a 1 row with bigger stones.

 

[McGinnis]

She'll definitely be wowed by the three sided one, it'll be blingy from every angle but if she's a classic, clean lines sort of gal, it might be a bit much? Im just playing devils advocate here. If you go with the single row with larger stones, then you risk losing a delicate band (if this matters) also, a center stone looks larger when compared to a thinner daintier shank. Looks like the Tiffany has two rows of diamonds on one side of the ring which might be a bit bulky. I love the head though.
Here are two that are similar to your aesthetic but with slightly different prongs. Also, have you thought about going custom?

http://www.michaelbjewelry.com/collections/three-sided-princess-ring/
http://www.michaelbjewelry.com/collections/paris-ring/

these three are custom only so you could probably have him make the head into that shape you like on this one:
https://www.victorcanera.com/rings/solitaire-in-multi-row-pave-with-old-european-cut
or add pave to the head on this:
https://www.victorcanera.com/rings/engagement/the-gabriella-six-prong-solitaire-with-multi-row-pave
this one is custom as well but I thought the "swoops" were very elegant
http://stevenkirsch.com/gallery/ring-destiny-diamonds-platinum-solitaire/

can't wait to find out what you end up with, stone or setting. When are you planning to pop the question ideally?

 

[Belic]

@McGinnis i will definetly go custom(thru WF). She really likes the blingy pave! Will go for 6 prong ”Tiffany style” head, thats 100%, the rest will still be hard to decide.

@McGinnis
@diamondseeker2006
@TreeScientist
What do you think about the stone to the right? Got a great suggestion from WF but would like your input in terms of colour.


Have to give cred to Becca @ Whiteflash, amazing to work with!

 

[Lorelei]

We can't reliably judge colour or lack thereof from a photo or our computer monitors, it's not responsible advice for us to give you, nor would it be accurate. What I can say is that the diamond looks amazing and the best people to ask whether it shows much warmth are Whiteflash themselves, they'll be pleased to advise you.

The industry believe that a reliably graded I colour is where most consumers begin to detect a hint of warmth from the side view of the diamond but as you are now aware, colour sensitivity varies. However, a stone of this cut quality is going to be beautiful regardless of its colour grade and Whiteflash will be able to advise you further.

 

[david b]

Hi!

A couple of weeks ago I was pretty much set on this diamond,
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R221-1Z01Z1232
But after checking with you guys I decided to look for a better cut diamond and go down a bit in size.

So obviously started to look at the super ideal vendors and decided I wanted to go with Whiteflash. Currently there is nothing in stock that feels 100% but I'm in no rush at the moment.

I'm starting to considering going below 2ct, but the question is, will I notice, once set, a "big" difference between lets say 1.7ct vs 2ct? It's not a question regarding cut vs size by now, it's more if I should wait a bit more or hit a 1.7-1.8 now and save a couple of 1000 dollars(which would be really nice). The most common size in Sweden is 0.2ct-0.5ct so it will be huge either way. Her finger size is 5.75.

"Her only wish is that i propose to her" but after some sneaking she would really appreciate a big diamond. What big is, is however another question, she hasn't tried out any stones

Bonus question,
Custom platinum setting from WF
3 rows pavé "ACA Melee" similar to this
https://www.instagram.com/p/BhL6u18hM6L/

6 prongs elegant style with diamonds on the prongs similar to this
http://media.tiffany.com/is/image/T...G_OVIEW_m.jpg?defaultImage=NoImageAvailable&&

Anything to think about in the above?

 

[david b]

Dear Belic,
I know that I will be under fire from certain vendors after this reply,

They make diamond purchasing a result of a machine checking of the diamonds "cut", the eye will not distinguish between Super Ideal and Ideal, This is why GIA do not have these grades. GIA IDEAL CUT is the best you can see with human eyes.

I would rather spend my time on finding a diamond that is also "spread", will be wider, if within the GIA Ideal Cut you will choose the Depth% of 59% to 60%.
Second option not to go under 2 carat is to choose a VS2 (the only difference between VVS-VS is in your pocket, they all look the same with named eye!).
Following the above will yield the optimum combination of beauty/size/budget.

I have 35 years in the diamond/jewelry behind me.


Hope this was helpful

 

[lissyflo]

GIA IDEAL CUT is the best you can see with human eyes.

But GIA grade from only from poor to excellent, no?

 

[ringo865]

Yes, and GIA's top cut grade - excellent - is so wide that it will fit AGS grades 0-4 within it.

 

[Babyblue033]

And as for the color, I would highly recommend against going with a J-color sight unseen. If you don't know your girlfriend's color sensitivity, there's a very high chance she's going to be able to see some color in a J. H seems to be the limit where most on here would agree it looks "white." At I and beyond is where discrepancies in color sensitivity start to arise. Many say that I still looks white. A few say that J looks white. But you really won't know how your girlfriend will react to color unless you've taken her to a jewelry store and looked at the various colors together. That's why most on here recommend that, if your purchasing the ring as a surprise (meaning without input from the other person), then H is a safe upper limit in color.

I'm all for going down colors to maximize the size. But from personal experience, I want to strongly second TreeScientist. I just upgraded from 1.03 G to 2.88 J and I definitely see the tint. Now, I love my ring because it's beautiful as a whole, but I thought I knew what I was getting with a J and I was still a little surprised how much tint is visible. Personally, I would still go down to J for the right stone, but I would be hesitant now to recommend to someone new to diamonds who haven't seen lower colored stones in person.

Doesn't mean you can't get a beautiful J stone, I just agree that you should be cautious since you're not seeing the stone in person, and perhaps consider "safer" option of I or H.

Good luck with your search!

 

[david b]

But GIA grade from only from poor to excellent, no?

 

[david b]

Yes, they have Ideal -Cut also Excellent cut.

All the rest names they give the cut is not related to how you see the diamond's sparkle, they are more kind of brands like H&A etc.
No one will be able to tell by looking at a diamond with unaided eye whether it is Ideal, Excellent or Cut above. Only computerized machines can tell.

I always compare it to an audio system that gives out frequencies that the human ear cannot hear, like above 50KH

 

[lissyflo]

Yes, they have Ideal -Cut also Excellent cut.

I think maybe you’re confusing GIA and AGS? I’d respectfully disagree with the rest of your post too.

 

[david b]

Sorry, you are right the GIA Ideal-Cut is called Excellent Cut

 

[TreeScientist]

Yes, they have Ideal -Cut also Excellent cut.

All the rest names they give the cut is not related to how you see the diamond's sparkle, they are more kind of brands like H&A etc.
No one will be able to tell by looking at a diamond with unaided eye whether it is Ideal, Excellent or Cut above. Only computerized machines can tell.

I always compare it to an audio system that gives out frequencies that the human ear cannot hear, like above 50KH

All GIA Excellents look the same? No-one can tell?

Then please explain what I'm seeing here, because I can certainly see the difference between diamond B and diamond C in this video under every lighting condition they use. I would somewhat agree with you that, yes, a well cut non-SuperIdeal (like diamond A in this video, although they could've picked a slightly better one for compairson) is going to look fairly similar to the SuperIdeal, and only the most discerning diamond consumers (like the people here on PS ) may be able to see the difference. But to say that all GIA excellents are going to look the same is a flat out lie.

JannPaul and Good Old Gold have plenty of videos comparing "borderline" GIA excellents (your classic steep-deeps) to SuperIdeals, and the differences are fairly obvious in each video.

But since you have 35 years in the business, perhaps you can explain why my eyes are deceiving me into believing that the well-cut diamond blows the borderline GIA Excellent out of the water every time. I am waiting to be educated.

 

[LLJsmom]

Dear Belic,
I know that I will be under fire from certain vendors after this reply,

They make diamond purchasing a result of a machine checking of the diamonds "cut", the eye will not distinguish between Super Ideal and Ideal, This is why GIA do not have these grades. GIA IDEAL CUT is the best you can see with human eyes.

I would rather spend my time on finding a diamond that is also "spread", will be wider, if within the GIA Ideal Cut you will choose the Depth% of 59% to 60%.
Second option not to go under 2 carat is to choose a VS2 (the only difference between VVS-VS is in your pocket, they all look the same with named eye!).
Following the above will yield the optimum combination of beauty/size/budget.

I have 35 years in the diamond/jewelry behind me.


Hope this was helpful

I have human eyes, two of them, and I am NOT a vendor and I take exception to your statement. I have seen a lot of diamonds. And I have seen the difference between multiple GIA 3X stones. Not every but enough. I have also seen the difference between GIA 3X and AGS 000. And I I have seen the difference between those and super ideal cuts. Again not every stone but enough. I am comfortable saying that I am certain I am not the only human on this forum that can see and have seen the difference. So I would thank you NOT to speak for me and NOT make statements that are verifiably inaccurate and untrue.

 

[Crazie4Cuts]

@Belic
Did Becca show you this one? This seems to be a recent addition to WF website:https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3256274.htm
With WF upgrade policy, if you wish to go bigger to a 2.0 ct diamond, you can trade in and receive full value as long as the diamond is not damaged (WF policy found here: https://www.whiteflash.com/confidence/lifetime-trade-up-guarantee/).

-C4C

 

[Belic]

The diamond to the right is actually a K colour.

It’s really hard to make a decesion, after all I will have to buy it online and have it set before i get it.

Sure WF has great policies, however, I will not be able to use it since I’m in Sweden with taxes etc.

Went with WF because i trust them both setting and diamond wise. It might be true that I may or may not see the difference between super ideal vs gia xxx, but since I’m buying online I’ll go with the ones that have great reviews and customer service.

So back to the colour question, any input at all for the right stone? Again most stones in Sweden are crap but as @TreeScientist said they are F-G, will the super ideal ”over shine” the yellow tint? By only looking at the pictures, for me at least, the yellow in the I-J-K stones are next to 0? To me the right stone rather look a bit grey?

 

[TreeScientist]

The diamond to the right is actually a K colour.

It’s really hard to make a decesion, after all I will have to buy it online and have it set before i get it.

Sure WF has great policies, however, I will not be able to use it since I’m in Sweden with taxes etc.

Went with WF because i trust them both setting and diamond wise. It might be true that I may or may not see the difference between super ideal vs gia xxx, but since I’m buying online I’ll go with the ones that have great reviews and customer service.

So back to the colour question, any input at all for the right stone? Again most stones in Sweden are crap but as @TreeScientist said they are F-G, will the super ideal ”over shine” the yellow tint? By only looking at the pictures, for me at least, the yellow in the I-J-K stones are next to 0? To me the right stone rather look a bit grey?

Good morning again from Norway (I'm sure the rest of America's PriceScopers are asleep by now haha).

I'll stand by my recommendation to avoid the J color, and get H color at a minimum. The benefit that most U.S.-based Pricescope consumers have that you do not is the ability to trade up at any point if they do not care for the diamond. So, in the hypothetical U.S. proposers scenario, they can buy a stone, propose with it, and if their now-fiancee does not like the color, they can return it for any stone of an equal or greater value. A truly wonderful policy and why many people love WF.

But you do not have this luxury. If you won't be going to the U.S. any time soon, you're pretty much stuck with what you choose the first time. And if your girlfriend thinks it looks yellow relative to her friend's F-G diamonds (remember, larger stones will show more color than smaller ones anyway)... Well, tough luck.

As I said before, just because you do not see any differences in color does not mean that others cannot either.

In the end, it's your decision. So even if you get 10 different opinions on this site (which you will ) you're the one who ultimately needs to go with what you feel is right. I'm just trying to give you advice based on my own experience as a non-U.S. based consumer: You'd better get it right the first time.

 

[EllieTO]

The diamond to the right is actually a K colour.

So back to the colour question, any input at all for the right stone? Again most stones in Sweden are crap but as @TreeScientist said they are F-G, will the super ideal ”over shine” the yellow tint? By only looking at the pictures, for me at least, the yellow in the I-J-K stones are next to 0? To me the right stone rather look a bit grey?

Remember that not all tint is yellow, so you shouldn't assume that a lower colour stone will have a yellow tint.
https://www.victorcanera.com/blog/diamond-color-undertones

 

[Lorelei]

Good morning again from Norway (I'm sure the rest of America's PriceScopers are asleep by now haha).

I'll stand by my recommendation to avoid the J color, and get H color at a minimum. The benefit that most U.S.-based Pricescope consumers have that you do not is the ability to trade up at any point if they do not care for the diamond. So, in the hypothetical U.S. proposers scenario, they can buy a stone, propose with it, and if their now-fiancee does not like the color, they can return it for any stone of an equal or greater value. A truly wonderful policy and why many people love WF.

But you do not have this luxury.

But you guys do have Aurora Borealis.

 

[TreeScientist]

But you guys do have Aurora Borealis.

True, that is the ultimate light show. Like the entire sky is a SuperIdeal diamond.

 

[david b]

I have human eyes, two of them, and I am NOT a vendor and I take exception to your statement. I have seen a lot of diamonds. And I have seen the difference between multiple GIA 3X stones. Not every but enough. I have also seen the difference between GIA 3X and AGS 000. And I I have seen the difference between those and super ideal cuts. Again not every stone but enough. I am comfortable saying that I am certain I am not the only human on this forum that can see and have seen the difference. So I would thank you NOT to speak for me and NOT make statements that are verifiably inaccurate and untrue.

 

[david b]

All GIA Excellents look the same? No-one can tell?

Then please explain what I'm seeing here, because I can certainly see the difference between diamond B and diamond C in this video under every lighting condition they use. I would somewhat agree with you that, yes, a well cut non-SuperIdeal (like diamond A in this video, although they could've picked a slightly better one for compairson) is going to look fairly similar to the SuperIdeal, and only the most discerning diamond consumers (like the people here on PS ) may be able to see the difference. But to say that all GIA excellents are going to look the same is a flat out lie.

JannPaul and Good Old Gold have plenty of videos comparing "borderline" GIA excellents (your classic steep-deeps) to SuperIdeals, and the differences are fairly obvious in each video.

But since you have 35 years in the business, perhaps you can explain why my eyes are deceiving me into believing that the well-cut diamond blows the borderline GIA Excellent out of the water every time. I am waiting to be educated.

 

[david b]

Well the bottom line is that I never had a customer come to me and to upgrade her diamond since she saw a super ideal and wanted the same.
And I very well know that the camera lenses does not "see" a diamond the same way the human eyes see.
I will not argue that there are 3ex diamonds that will look better because every grade has a range, I believe that Ex cut is good enough for the average person.
You are most welcome to haunt the perfect diamond on earth if this is what your clients want.

 

[david b]

I have human eyes, two of them, and I am NOT a vendor and I take exception to your statement. I have seen a lot of diamonds. And I have seen the difference between multiple GIA 3X stones. Not every but enough. I have also seen the difference between GIA 3X and AGS 000. And I I have seen the difference between those and super ideal cuts. Again not every stone but enough. I am comfortable saying that I am certain I am not the only human on this forum that can see and have seen the difference. So I would thank you NOT to speak for me and NOT make statements that are verifiably inaccurate and untrue.