1.52 James Allen Diamond

[kmoro]

Are you sure you wouldn't be happier with a slightly smaller diamond that is well cut and doesn't have any potential negatives? For your budget of around $7k, you could get a nice 1.3 carat I-color diamond that is well cut without any fluor.
https://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamond/round-diamond-1.3-carat-i-vs2-yd4975353

1.3 carats would still be a really nice upgrade over a .82 carat diamond.

But seriously, I would recommend contacting either WhiteFlash, August Vintage, or even High Performance Diamonds and see if they would work with you on a reasonable trade-in offer for your current diamond if you bought a stone from them. I've heard that HPD sometimes takes people's old diamonds and gives them a fair price, so that may be your best bet. Probably better than trying to sell it yourself, both for the hassle involved and the price that you'll likely get trying to sell it on your own.

haha literally typing at the same time and very similar thought/message ...

You owe me a beer, @TreeScientist !!! or I owe you one ... lol

 

[little_rat]

It was my understanding that Whiteflash do not accept external diamonds for trade ins any more

 

[kmoro]

It was my understanding that Whiteflash do not accept external diamonds for trade ins any more

They don’t take them without meeting certain conditions. But the conditions appear to be secret.

From Whiteflash’s FAQ section:

“Do you accept diamonds for trade up that were purchased elsewhere?
We do consider trade-up for diamonds purchased elsewhere if certain conditions are met. Each case is evaluated carefully and valuation is based upon prevailing market conditions. For more information about how this program works please see our page on Opportunities for Trade-Up of Non-Whiteflash Diamonds.“

When I follow the link, it is really the link to the “Lifetime Trade Up Guarantee,” with no mention of Non-Whiteflash Diamonds. The closest related comment was:
“Diamonds in our Virtual Selection category and other diamonds that may be sourced for customers are not part of Whiteflash in-house inventory and are therefore not included in our Trade Up Guarantee.”

I have had a look at the rest of the site and could not find anything else, although I may have missed it.

Regardless, the FAQ section says that they do sometimes ... I would suspect at 70% or so ... 70% of what not exactly sure since the original purchase may have been at a price they disagree with. This is just to give an idea ... if they do allow a trade-in, it will likely not be at the 100% that they allow for Whiteflash diamonds .... However, I don’t work for WF, even if it’s hard to tell sometimes lol, and so this is really pointless thinking out loud ....

A lot of blah blah to say that, if you’re interested in trading in a non-Whiteflash diamond, the best thing to do is contact them. The worst things that can happen is that they offer too low of a value or say no.

 

[little_rat]

Ok interesting. I was basing my comment off this thread https://www.pricescope.com/communit...for-owners-of-non-whiteflash-diamonds.241405/

 

[sledge]

When doing a trade, rather a diamond or car, the dealer/vendor will normally offer a value many customers feel is too low. I personally think the 70% estimate is too high of an expectation for diamonds. Maybe in rare cases, but not the norm.

Remember, just like with cars, this is done for convenience and not maximum value. You don't have the headache of finding a seller, fixing the flaws, trying to outguess market prices and then throw some profit on the deal for all the headache.

I'm sure some of the vendors like WF or HPD would talk about a trade. And as long as customer expectations were reasonable then an agreement could likely be reached.

 

[kmoro]

When doing a trade, rather a diamond or car, the dealer/vendor will normally offer a value many customers feel is too low. I personally think the 70% estimate is too high of an expectation for diamonds. Maybe in rare cases, but not the norm.

Remember, just like with cars, this is done for convenience and not maximum value. You don't have the headache of finding a seller, fixing the flaws, trying to outguess market prices and then throw some profit on the deal for all the headache.

I'm sure some of the vendors like WF or HPD would talk about a trade. And as long as customer expectations were reasonable then an agreement could likely be reached.

Yes - I guess 70% is quite optimistic ... as in, way too optimistic.... sorry, I don’t mean to set false expectations...

 

[sstephensid]

I sent an email to Whiteflash yesterday. They mentioned I may want to raise my budget to meet what I’m hoping to get. I sent the AGS but it didn’t have the cert # on my pic so after they asked for that, I had to wait until yesterday evening to supply them with the number (when I got home). Therefore, haven’t received a number or even if they would offer a trade in for my diamond.

I have not yet received the image from JA. The reason I’m still hoping for JA is my husband. He gets stressed by these types of things. Before we got married he never would have bought a diamond online. Then slowly I’ve purchased necklaces and rings from ID jewelry. Now this. And I had to really talk up JA (thinking this is what I wanted 100%) and how easy it will be that the setting and diamond come from the same place. And they offer a guarantee still for lifetime, and they will resize once for free, can return w/I 30 days, they are one of the biggest names in the business, etc. I know it’s not a big deal to most. But I don’t even want to mention another place unless I find *the one* elsewhere. I’m afraid he will get spooked.

 

[sstephensid]

Oh and how does this one look, if it is eye clean?

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...color-si2-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-5031852

I didn’t necessarily want to dip down to a K but may be willing.

 

[lovedogs]

Oh and how does this one look, if it is eye clean?

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...color-si2-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-5031852

I didn’t necessarily want to dip down to a K but may be willing.

I saw that one and breifly considered linking it, but the large thing (feather?) On the edge gives me pause. I'm usually not too picky about inclusions, but that one looks big and potentially problematic.

 

[kmoro]

I sent an email to Whiteflash yesterday. They mentioned I may want to raise my budget to meet what I’m hoping to get. I sent the AGS but it didn’t have the cert # on my pic so after they asked for that, I had to wait until yesterday evening to supply them with the number (when I got home). Therefore, haven’t received a number or even if they would offer a trade in for my diamond.

I have not yet received the image from JA. The reason I’m still hoping for JA is my husband. He gets stressed by these types of things. Before we got married he never would have bought a diamond online. Then slowly I’ve purchased necklaces and rings from ID jewelry. Now this. And I had to really talk up JA (thinking this is what I wanted 100%) and how easy it will be that the setting and diamond come from the same place. And they offer a guarantee still for lifetime, and they will resize once for free, can return w/I 30 days, they are one of the biggest names in the business, etc. I know it’s not a big deal to most. But I don’t even want to mention another place unless I find *the one* elsewhere. I’m afraid he will get spooked.

Hmmm. Perhaps have him look up reviews on trustpilot and google ...

Wishing you luck with all!

 

[kmoro]

Ok interesting. I was basing my comment off this thread https://www.pricescope.com/communit...for-owners-of-non-whiteflash-diamonds.241405/

Thank you for posting that. Did you read through it? It seems that they will still do it, but very rarely and only for particular diamonds.

 

[sstephensid]

WF does not want to offer a trade in on my diamond. They also did not suggest any diamonds that fit my wish list.

 

[sledge]

Oh and how does this one look, if it is eye clean?

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...color-si2-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-5031852

I didn’t necessarily want to dip down to a K but may be willing.

Stone has nice proportions and should have a similar personality to the stone that you have.

What concerns me is that feather. That looks rather nasty. The video makes it appear as almost like someone hit it with a small hammer and it spider webbed.

If you can get past the K color, I'd want JA to verify that stone is eye clean, doesn't have any structural integrity issues and the position/size/severity of the inclusion doesn't inhibit light performance.

WF does not want to offer a trade in on my diamond. They also did not suggest any diamonds that fit my wish list.

Did they offer any comments why they don't wish to trade? My guess is it may be hard for them to find a comparable WF stone that meets your budget and color/clarity requirements. I opened up my search from D-Z and SI2+ but limited to in-house and ideal cut (essentially allows ACA, ES & PS brands). Also expanded size from 1.25 to 2 carats.

Limited options, but here's what popped:

1.323ct K SI1 @ $6,195
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3983290.htm

Biggest concern is your sensitivity to color. Worth noting that while carat weight is considerably different size is only about 0.30mm. Yes, you will be able to notice a small difference between that and the 1.52 JA side by side, but it will be minimal.


1.311 I SI1 @ $7,251
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3702264.htm

Better color. Probably too expensive. Not sure it's eye clean.


1.363 K VS2 @ $6,746
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4070343.htm

Clouds are grade setting inclusions and note that says additional clouds not shown. Most VS2's are eye clean, so this is probably okay especially with the vetting process WF does. But that particular combination of inclusions can be risky so I'd still want them to test in a variety of light conditions for you and ensure those clouds aren't a problem.

FYI, even less size difference here, only about 0.20mm which is the average where most people can notice a difference in a side by side comparison.


1.402 J VS2 @ $8,524
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4073561.htm

Probably my favorite of this particular group. Looks very white. All the images are super nice. And proportions are dreamy (34.5/40.7 ).

Also, this one gets you to the 7.23mm range. This is only about 0.10mm or 1/256th of an inch, smaller than the original and heavier 1.52 JA stone you inquired about. Seeing them independently, you'd never know. Here, depending on your vision, you may not even be able to tell side by side.

If you've got flex in the budget, or can sell your other stone this would be my pick. Unfortunately, probably a little pricey if you can't do that.

 

[sledge]

Here's a virtual inventory stone that may work.

1.50ct J SI2 @ $5,327
https://www.fourmine.com/shop/diamo...ce=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=2018

56 table, 62 depth, 35 crown, 40.6 pavilion & 80 LGF's. 0.9 HCA.

The proportions have potential. Good sized table and steep crown paired with that very complimentary & shallower pavilion should throw lots of nice fire. With anything in virtual inventory, I always like to request an idealscope and ASET image to confirm there is no leakage. Also would love some H&A images to confirm symmetry. But highly unlikely you will get all them. Still it doesn't hurt to ask. Maybe you will get a few of them.

Stone measures at roughly 7.30mm, which is about average for the carat weight. The other 1.52 JA stone you looked at was a little larger for almost the same weight because of the big table and shallow crown. Effectively the proportions of that stone made it favor white light return and gave you a little more spread as a result. This stone would favor a more balanced look like your current stone you own but won't offer an above average spread like that 1.52 because the table is smaller and crown is steeper.

I don't see black specks in the video. However, I can see a few clouds and feather. Also, I think that is an indented natural near the girdle.

Would appreciate a few more sets of eyes looking at this stone given the fact it's virtual inventory and SI2 clarity. @rockysalamander @mrs-b @farrahlyn @SimoneDi

 

[TreeScientist]

I sent an email to Whiteflash yesterday. They mentioned I may want to raise my budget to meet what I’m hoping to get. I sent the AGS but it didn’t have the cert # on my pic so after they asked for that, I had to wait until yesterday evening to supply them with the number (when I got home). Therefore, haven’t received a number or even if they would offer a trade in for my diamond.

I have not yet received the image from JA. The reason I’m still hoping for JA is my husband. He gets stressed by these types of things. Before we got married he never would have bought a diamond online. Then slowly I’ve purchased necklaces and rings from ID jewelry. Now this. And I had to really talk up JA (thinking this is what I wanted 100%) and how easy it will be that the setting and diamond come from the same place. And they offer a guarantee still for lifetime, and they will resize once for free, can return w/I 30 days, they are one of the biggest names in the business, etc. I know it’s not a big deal to most. But I don’t even want to mention another place unless I find *the one* elsewhere. I’m afraid he will get spooked.

You mention that you have purchased other pieces from ID Jewelry. Is there a reason you aren't considering using them to purchase this upgrade ring? IDJ has a great reputation on this site, and has worked miracles with PriceScoper's budgets in the past. They'll work their tail off to take images of diamonds and inspect them for you in person (which, IMO, is a necessity if you're purchasing a lower clarity stone and/or a stone with strong fluorescence). This kind of personal attention you won't get from JA.You'll be lucky to get an IdealScope image. And IDJ is usually much, much cheaper than JA for the exact same diamond, as they have a lower mark-up.

Personally, if I was working with a limited budget and had a set of parameters (carat, color, cut) that I wanted to meet, I would contact IDJ first thing and see what they could do for me. They'll present you with a few options within your budget. Nothing to lose really.

And as @kmoro already mentioned, if you or your husband are concerned about the trustworthiness of any particular online reseller, I would encourage you to look up honest (non-filtered) reviews for James Allen on Yelp, TrustPilot, Google, etc., and then do the same for ID Jewelry, WhiteFlash, and some of the other online resellers like Adiamor and Yadav. Granted, online reviews never tell the whole story, but looking at the average rating after a few hundred reviews usually give you a pretty good idea of the kind of service that a company provides...

 

[SimoneDi]

@sledge I saw that particular 1.5 J SI2 diamond at fourmine when I was looking a few days ago. The cut proportions are good, but it is a cloudy stone IMO. You can even see the diminished transparency in the video, so that particular stone will be a no for me.

There is another diamond available for sale by a PSer: https://loupetroop.com/listings/rings/1-dot-51-carat-triple-x-j-si1-gia-rb

She purchased it from IDJ originally. It has very a strong flouro and it is 1.51ct J SI1.

 

[sledge]

@sledge I saw that particular 1.5 J SI2 diamond at fourmine when I was looking a few days ago. The cut proportions are good, but it a cloudy stone IMO. You can even see the diminished transparency in the video, so that particular stone will be a no for me.

There is another diamond available for sale by a PSer: https://loupetroop.com/listings/rings/1-dot-51-carat-triple-x-j-si1-gia-rb

She purchased it from IDJ originally. It has very strong flouro and it is 1.51ct J SI1.

Thank you @SimoneDi, I appreciate it. It appeared cloudy to me too but the last few days have been crazy and I'm tired so I wasn't sure if my eyes were playing tricks on me and I was being biased or if it was really there.

Best part is @sstephensid has an alternate choice to consider as well. Here's the PS thread that goes with it:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/id-jewelry-found-me-a-winner.211027/
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gia-j-si1-vsbf.232560/

 

[farrahlyn]

@sledge I saw that particular 1.5 J SI2 diamond at fourmine when I was looking a few days ago. The cut proportions are good, but it is a cloudy stone IMO. You can even see the diminished transparency in the video, so that particular stone will be a no for me.

There is another diamond available for sale by a PSer: https://loupetroop.com/listings/rings/1-dot-51-carat-triple-x-j-si1-gia-rb

She purchased it from IDJ originally. It has very a strong flouro and it is 1.51ct J SI1.

i thought the same thing on that stone, nice proportions but the life/sparkle isn't there.
Also, ITA with @sledge assessment of the K SI2 stone. That feather looks really awful, i keep looking at it to try and figure out what is going on with it.

 

[kal2021]

It was my understanding that Whiteflash do not accept external diamonds for trade ins any more

I actually just traded in my BGD H&A diamond with Whiteflash. It had to meet their criteria for an ACA and I got a little less than what I paid for it through BGD because they had to recut it slightly to meet their ACA standards. Worth it for me to now have an ACA and be able to upgrade through them if I decide to someday since their policy is easier to upgrade through.

 

[kal2021]

Thank you for posting that. Did you read through it? It seems that they will still do it, but very rarely and only for particular diamonds.

They still do it. They did for my BGD H&A at what I felt was a very fair price!

 

[sstephensid]

Surprisingly they emailed me back a second time and are willing to offer an amount but I only have a few days to decide and it has to be traded in for an in house diamond. I’m not sure they have something in house (not virtual) right this minute that is perfect for me. Ahhh decisions decisions.

 

[sstephensid]

Thank you @SimoneDi, I appreciate it. It appeared cloudy to me too but the last few days have been crazy and I'm tired so I wasn't sure if my eyes were playing tricks on me and I was being biased or if it was really there.

Best part is @sstephensid has an alternate choice to consider as well. Here's the PS thread that goes with it:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/id-jewelry-found-me-a-winner.211027/
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gia-j-si1-vsbf.232560/

Thanks. I’m thinking about this one. It’s tough because it doesn’t have the same protections that buying from an online store has now *or* for future trade ins. I have to weigh all the pros and cons buying privately.

 

[farrahlyn]

Surprisingly they emailed me back a second time and are willing to offer an amount but I only have a few days to decide and it has to be traded in for an in house diamond. I’m not sure they have something in house (not virtual) right this minute that is perfect for me. Ahhh decisions decisions.

If you're dead set on size, this is what i'd do.... I'd go for the biggest K i could get in budget. Their upgrade policy is SO good, you can work on upgrading again to a similar size stone with better color down the road. ALSO, just for clarity i will also point out their trade up policy on designer settings:

All engagement rings from the collections of our designer partners Tacori, Verragio, Simon G, Ritani, Danhov and Vatche are eligible for trade up to any other single designer item of this group of designers that is equal to or greater in value. 50% of the original sale price for the item will be credited toward the new purchase.​

What would be your budget if you decide to take them up on the offer? And what setting were you eyeing at James Allen?

 

[sstephensid]

If you're dead set on size, this is what i'd do.... I'd go for the biggest K i could get in budget. Their upgrade policy is SO good, you can work on upgrading again to a similar size stone with better color down the road. ALSO, just for clarity i will also point out their trade up policy on designer settings:

All engagement rings from the collections of our designer partners Tacori, Verragio, Simon G, Ritani, Danhov and Vatche are eligible for trade up to any other single designer item of this group of designers that is equal to or greater in value. 50% of the original sale price for the item will be credited toward the new purchase.​

What would be your budget if you decide to take them up on the offer? And what setting were you eyeing at James Allen?

I would think 8500for the diamond. I was looking at this setting in RG


https://www.jamesallen.com/engageme...e-gold-floral-halo-engagement-ring-item-53439

 

[Texas Leaguer]

They don’t take them without meeting certain conditions. But the conditions appear to be secret.

From Whiteflash’s FAQ section:

“Do you accept diamonds for trade up that were purchased elsewhere?
We do consider trade-up for diamonds purchased elsewhere if certain conditions are met. Each case is evaluated carefully and valuation is based upon prevailing market conditions. For more information about how this program works please see our page on Opportunities for Trade-Up of Non-Whiteflash Diamonds.“

When I follow the link, it is really the link to the “Lifetime Trade Up Guarantee,” with no mention of Non-Whiteflash Diamonds. The closest related comment was:
“Diamonds in our Virtual Selection category and other diamonds that may be sourced for customers are not part of Whiteflash in-house inventory and are therefore not included in our Trade Up Guarantee.”

I have had a look at the rest of the site and could not find anything else, although I may have missed it.

@kmoro,
Thank you for pointing out the disconnect between the FAQ and the policy page. It is never our intent to keep any policies secret! We will remove that link as that page currently does not, as you point out, provide any more info on potential trade-in of non-Whiteflash diamonds.

In the past we did have a section on that page relating to the question, but it was removed last year. Let me explain the reason for the change.

First, we are always willing to talk to customers about how we might be able to meet their needs.
At the same time we want to set their expectations properly. We have found (through ample experience) that it is somewhat rare that entertaining trade-in for non-Whiteflash diamonds results in a mutually agreeable proposal. The reasons for this have little to do with making offers that are competitive in the secondary market (we do!). The main issue is that we are very specialized and most diamonds offered to us in this way will not meet the criteria for our in-house categories, for one reason or another. And the only way we know for sure is to bring the diamond in and do all of our evaluations. If the diamond fails, the customer is disappointed and we have expended resources on the project that cannot be recovered.

The other thing that tends to happen is that even in the event a diamond does meet our needs, the price offered may be significantly less than what the customer thinks it is worth, even though we always make competitive offers, and in many case even overpay in order to make the transaction possible. This tends to leave the customer feeling that we are trying to take advantage of them in the trade. Getting crosswise with customers or potential customers is NOT where we want to be! So, for the reasons above we have removed from our policies any parameters of non-Whiteflash trade-ins.

Having said that, there are some cases where a trade makes perfect sense for both parties. And we are perfectly happy to have that conversation.

 

[sledge]

I would think 8500for the diamond. I was looking at this setting in RG


https://www.jamesallen.com/engageme...e-gold-floral-halo-engagement-ring-item-53439

I'm glad to hear that WF came back and made you a trade proposal. Just my 2 cents. You seem to value the security and flexibility of working with a vendor for protection and future upgrades. WF has excellent quality stones and fair prices.

Originally you didn't think you were going to get squat for the original diamond. All factors combined, I'd take them up on their offer.

If this leaves you $8,500 for the rock, this 1.402 J VS2 I linked above in post #43 is freakin' amazing! It's just a smidge under 1.5 carats but that plays in your favor with the dollars as your eyes will never be able to tell the difference in dimensions as the variance is too small to notice.

1.402 J VS2 @ $8,524
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4073561.htm

Probably my favorite of this particular group. Looks very white. All the images are super nice. And proportions are dreamy (34.5/40.7 ).

Also, this one gets you to the 7.23mm range. This is only about 0.10mm or 1/256th of an inch, smaller than the original and heavier 1.52 JA stone you inquired about. Seeing them independently, you'd never know. Here, depending on your vision, you may not even be able to tell side by side.

If you've got flex in the budget, or can sell your other stone this would be my pick. Unfortunately, probably a little pricey if you can't do that.

 

[kal2021]

@kmoro,
Thank you for pointing out the disconnect between the FAQ and the policy page. It is never our intent to keep any policies secret! We will remove that link as that page currently does not, as you point out, provide any more info on potential trade-in of non-Whiteflash diamonds.

In the past we did have a section on that page relating to the question, but it was removed last year. Let me explain the reason for the change.

First, we are always willing to talk to customers about how we might be able to meet their needs.
At the same time we want to set their expectations properly. We have found (through ample experience) that it is somewhat rare that entertaining trade-in for non-Whiteflash diamonds results in a mutually agreeable proposal. The reasons for this have little to do with making offers that are competitive in the secondary market (we do!). The main issue is that we are very specialized and most diamonds offered to us in this way will not meet the criteria for our in-house categories, for one reason or another. And the only way we know for sure is to bring the diamond in and do all of our evaluations. If the diamond fails, the customer is disappointed and we have expended resources on the project that cannot be recovered.

The other thing that tends to happen is that even in the event a diamond does meet our needs, the price offered may be significantly less than what the customer thinks it is worth, even though we always make competitive offers, and in many case even overpay in order to make the transaction possible. This tends to leave the customer feeling that we are trying to take advantage of them in the trade. Getting crosswise with customers or potential customers is NOT where we want to be! So, for the reasons above we have removed from our policies any parameters of non-Whiteflash trade-ins.

Having said that, there are some cases where a trade makes perfect sense for both parties. And we are perfectly happy to have that conversation.

I’m so glad it worked out for me and that I’m now part of the Whiteflash ACA family!

 

[farrahlyn]

I'm glad to hear that WF came back and made you a trade proposal. Just my 2 cents. You seem to value the security and flexibility of working with a vendor for protection and future upgrades. WF has excellent quality stones and fair prices.

Originally you didn't think you were going to get squat for the original diamond. All factors combined, I'd take them up on their offer.

If this leaves you $8,500 for the rock, this 1.402 J VS2 I linked above in post #43 is freakin' amazing! It's just a smidge under 1.5 carats but that plays in your favor with the dollars as your eyes will never be able to tell the difference in dimensions as the variance is too small to notice.

ITA with @sledge, this is a great option for you! And especially in a halo, you are NOT going to be able to tell the difference between this and a 1.5. As far as the setting, work with WF and see if they could recommend a setting like the JA one you like. Simon G has some more floral-ish settings but they are different from the JA one.

 

[kal2021]

I would for sure take WF up on their offer assuming it’s reasonable to you! You will not regret being able to work with them on this ring and future projects!

 

[sstephensid]

I am thinking about the WF stone. Well my husband is. Haha. He was hoping if we sold the diamond it could offset the JA stone cost. But instead, the upgrade would pretty much just cover the cost of the different between WF and JA. JUST received the image from the JA stone. I am not an expert with these things.