1.34/F/VVS2/Ex - B&M vs Online - Price?

[bamcw328i]

I recently found a diamond that I''m interesting in getting for an engagement ring: http://www.gauchoalumni.com/GIA_14821391.jpg

I found the stone at a B&M (which is a ''wholesaler'') store yesterday. Today, I was searching on the web and I found the EXACT stone listed on a few online dealers. The prices from the online dealers are a few bucks less then what the B&M store is trying to charge me. How much do the online stores mark the price up? If I''m dealing directly with the wholesaler who actually has the stone, shouldn''t I be able to get a lower price then the online store?

Also, the stone is not laser inscribed. The ''wholesaler'' said they would charge an additional $250 bucks to have the stone laser inscribed by GIA. Does this sound right? I thought all stones were laser inscribed now. What could be reason why this stone was not laser inscribed? This a reputable store in our area, so there is not reason why they would try to sell me a fake stone. So why wasn''t it inscribed?

And finally, what do you think the stone should be sold/priced at. I have a price from the wholesaler, but I would like to get a feel what others believe is the price on this stone. They are giving me Rap pricing right now. I''m not sure if this is a decent deal since this is a VERY well cut stone. Should I be pressing for below Rap?

It''s a bit higher quality then I initially wanted, but after several months of searching, this is the best one that fits.

Thanks in advance!!

 

[Demelza]

Welcome to Pricescope!

First off, if this B&M is selling a diamond to you, they are NOT a true wholesaler. They may or may not be giving you a fair price, but if they are selling to the public, they are a RETAIL store. That's an important distinction and it always irks me when a retail outlet selling to the public claims to have "wholesale" pricing.

Does the B&M have the stone in their possession? Have you seen it? It is very unlikely that they own the stone. They likely have it on memo from the wholesaler who does own the stone. This is why you see it listed with other online vendors. If you were to contact another vendor about this particular stone, they would simply call the actual wholesaler to have the stone called in for inspection and it would likely be pulled from the B&M.

As far as pricing goes, if you've seen this stone and know you like it, it sounds like you have a couple of options: buy from the vendor who offers you the best price or stick with the vendor you're dealing with now if you like his/her service, the ease of having a local jeweler, etc. There are definite advantages to buying from a local B&M even if it means paying a little more. Or perhaps you can get him/her down in price. Typically, however, you will find better pricing online since the overhead is usually less than that of a B&M.

Hope this helps and good luck! Let us know what you decide.

ETA Not all stones are incribed. It is up to the discretion of the vendor who owns the stone whether to have it inscribed. GIA and other labs do not do it as part of their routine grading process. It involves an extra fee. There is nothing to be concerned about if the stone is not inscribed and it sounds like for a fee you can have choose to have it done if it would make you feel more comfortable.

 

[bamcw328i]

I think these guys are wholesale/retail shop. They do both. They did not claim wholesale pricing.

They just claimed it was good pricing.

I''ve seen the stone and it an AWESOME stone, just 3 pinpoints on the table that are very hard to find. It''s in their posession, so I''m guessing they might be the dealer that had it listed with online vendors.

I don''t mind paying a little more since they are B&M store. Too bad I have to pay tax since it''s in a B&M.

It''s a really nice stone. I''m just not sure if the price is good. I just don''t know if Rap pricing is what I should be paying for it.

Do you know why a store would choose not to have stone inscribed? I would think that something of this quality... most places would request to have this laser inscribed.

 

[sluke]

You can always ask if there is a discount? Doesn''t hurt. B&M do have more overhead. The laser inscription does seem high though. I got my inscription done at the independant appraiser (on the pricescope vendor list) and was not charged anywhere near $250...and this included a several page appraisal on the diamond itself.

 

[Demelza]

Date: 2/5/2006 12:40:09 PM
Author: bamcw328i
I think these guys are wholesale/retail shop. They do both. They did not claim wholesale pricing.

They just claimed it was good pricing.


I''ve seen the stone and it an AWESOME stone, just 3 pinpoints on the table that are very hard to find. It''s in their posession, so I''m guessing they might be the dealer that had it listed with online vendors.


I don''t mind paying a little more since they are B&M store. Too bad I have to pay tax since it''s in a B&M.


It''s a really nice stone. I''m just not sure if the price is good. I just don''t know if Rap pricing is what I should be paying for it.


Do you know why a store would choose not to have stone inscribed? I would think that something of this quality... most places would request to have this laser inscribed.

Perhaps an expert can correct me if I''m wrong, but a store cannot be both a wholesaler and a retailer. They are mutually exclusive. I very much doubt this store actually owns the stone.

Regardless, it sounds like you''ve seen this stone listed with other vendors for a lower price. How much lower? Only you can decide whether you think paying the B&M price is worth it. If you purchase the stone from an out of state dealer, you would save on tax which, in this case, would be a significant amount of money. But, again, only you can make that decision.

As far as why the stone isn''t laser insribed: I really don''t think there''s any correlation between quality and the presence of a laser incription. Most branded stones are laser inscribed with the brand name and report number. Some aren''t. I wouldn''t draw any conclusions about the stone based on that. If you''re concerned, however, take the stone to an independent appraiser for verification purposes. This is a good idea anyway as you will get an unbiased opinion as to the quality of the stone. Make sure, however, that the appraiser is independent and not associated with any kind of diamond selling outfit.

 

[plg_cp]

Date: 2/5/2006 12:40:09 PM
Author: bamcw328i

It''s a really nice stone. I''m just not sure if the price is good. I just don''t know if Rap pricing is what I should be paying for it.

328i,
From reading some other posts on using Rap sheet pricing to gauge the attractiveness of a retail price (link), it seems to me not to be particularly useful. Rap doesn''t take Cut into account in the pricing grid. The stone you posted is graded EX cut by GIA and based on the GIA specs, scores 0.6 on the HCA. Therefore, you might expect this stone to sell at less of a discount to Rap than an identical one except for lesser Cut.

I think you''d be better off using the prices online vendors are listing for this identical stone as a guide. Realistically you can''t expect to purchase it for less than the lowest price you see from an online vendor, so it''s up to you to decide if the premium the B&M is asking it worth it for any value added services you get from them.

Mark

 

[Gemguy]

The stone is own by a dealer in new york, If you want to buy it from your B&M store price looks like good. If you can bring it down to %5 of the rap that would be the best price you could get.







Gem Sezgin

diamond dealer

 

[bamcw328i]

How can I find out who the diamond belongs to?

Is there a reason why you say 5% below rap? Right now they are selling at rap. Originally they had it above Rap... they said it commanded a premium cause it was an excellent cut, polish, & symmetry; plus it was a high grade. Is this really true?

 

[Demelza]

Date: 2/5/2006 6:05:25 PM
Author: bamcw328i
How can I find out who the diamond belongs to?


Is there a reason why you say 5% below rap? Right now they are selling at rap. Originally they had it above Rap... they said it commanded a premium cause it was an excellent cut, polish, & symmetry; plus it was a high grade. Is this really true?

I''m not sure why it matters who actually owns the stone since, as a consumer, you can only deal on the retail level (unless, of course you are a member of the trade). Personally, I wouldn''t concern myself too much with the rap price. Rap prices don''t tell you much about what this particular diamond should go for. You''ve seen this diamond listed on the internet -- it''s unlikely you can get a price much below what you''re seeing online. Use that as a guide and decide whether it''s worth it to pay the B&M premium. If not, buy online. With a purchase of this size, I would still recommend having the stone evaluated by an independent appraiser. This is the best way to ensure you''re getting a great diamond at a fair price.

 

[bamcw328i]

Date: 2/5/2006 7:05:25 PM
Author: Demelza

Date: 2/5/2006 6:05:25 PM
Author: bamcw328i
How can I find out who the diamond belongs to?


Is there a reason why you say 5% below rap? Right now they are selling at rap. Originally they had it above Rap... they said it commanded a premium cause it was an excellent cut, polish, & symmetry; plus it was a high grade. Is this really true?

I''m not sure why it matters who actually owns the stone since, as a consumer, you can only deal on the retail level (unless, of course you are a member of the trade). Personally, I wouldn''t concern myself too much with the rap price. Rap prices don''t tell you much about what this particular diamond should go for. You''ve seen this diamond listed on the internet -- it''s unlikely you can get a price much below what you''re seeing online. Use that as a guide and decide whether it''s worth it to pay the B&M premium. If not, buy online. With a purchase of this size, I would still recommend having the stone evaluated by an independent appraiser. This is the best way to ensure you''re getting a great diamond at a fair price.

Thank you for the info.

Now my next question would be, how do I locate a ''good'' independent appraiser? I''ve heard nightmare stores about appraisers.

How much do they normally charge?

 

[Demelza]

Where are you located? There''s a link at the top of this page under Resources that will direct you to a list of appraisers in your state. There are several excellent appraisers who regularly post on this board. My personal recommendation would be Rich Sherwood in Florida. You''d probably have to contact each appraiser individually for prices, but I would say that you might be looking at anywhere from $60 - 150 depending on several factors. Good luck!

 

[bamcw328i]

Date: 2/5/2006 9:22:43 PM
Author: Demelza
Where are you located? There''s a link at the top of this page under Resources that will direct you to a list of appraisers in your state. There are several excellent appraisers who regularly post on this board. My personal recommendation would be Rich Sherwood in Florida. You''d probably have to contact each appraiser individually for prices, but I would say that you might be looking at anywhere from $60 - 150 depending on several factors. Good luck!

I live in Northern California. Do you have an recommendations for where I''m located?

 

[Demelza]

Date: 2/5/2006 10:25:40 PM
Author: bamcw328i

Date: 2/5/2006 9:22:43 PM

Author: Demelza

Where are you located? There's a link at the top of this page under Resources that will direct you to a list of appraisers in your state. There are several excellent appraisers who regularly post on this board. My personal recommendation would be Rich Sherwood in Florida. You'd probably have to contact each appraiser individually for prices, but I would say that you might be looking at anywhere from $60 - 150 depending on several factors. Good luck!

I live in Northern California. Do you have an recommendations for where I'm located?

I don't, but I know some here have used Nancy Stacy. I believe she's in Walnut Creek and quite well known. Is that near you?

 

[bamcw328i]

Date: 2/5/2006 10:31:45 PM
Author: Demelza

Date: 2/5/2006 10:25:40 PM
Author: bamcw328i

Date: 2/5/2006 9:22:43 PM

Author: Demelza

Where are you located? There''s a link at the top of this page under Resources that will direct you to a list of appraisers in your state. There are several excellent appraisers who regularly post on this board. My personal recommendation would be Rich Sherwood in Florida. You''d probably have to contact each appraiser individually for prices, but I would say that you might be looking at anywhere from $60 - 150 depending on several factors. Good luck!

I live in Northern California. Do you have an recommendations for where I''m located?

I don''t, but I know some here have used Nancy Stacy. I believe she''s in Walnut Creek and quite well known. Is that near you?

She''s about 40 minutes away. Do you know what the general feedback abour her is? I''ve looked at her prices and she''s expensive.

 

[Gemguy]

Hi there

The reason i was saying 5% of the rap is because i know the stone .And I bought and sold many of them in that range,If you and up buying from you local store it would be better for you,because if you need to size the ring or any thing you need to do!! it would be better to deal with a person than internet sore. my opinion





Gem Sezgin

 

[Demelza]

Date: 2/5/2006 10:49:00 PM
Author: bamcw328i

Date: 2/5/2006 10:31:45 PM

Author: Demelza

Date: 2/5/2006 10:25:40 PM

Author: bamcw328i

Date: 2/5/2006 9:22:43 PM


Author: Demelza


Where are you located? There''s a link at the top of this page under Resources that will direct you to a list of appraisers in your state. There are several excellent appraisers who regularly post on this board. My personal recommendation would be Rich Sherwood in Florida. You''d probably have to contact each appraiser individually for prices, but I would say that you might be looking at anywhere from $60 - 150 depending on several factors. Good luck!

I live in Northern California. Do you have an recommendations for where I''m located?

I don''t, but I know some here have used Nancy Stacy. I believe she''s in Walnut Creek and quite well known. Is that near you?

She''s about 40 minutes away. Do you know what the general feedback abour her is? I''ve looked at her prices and she''s expensive.

I know nothing about her other than that she has a good reputation. Try doing a search on her and see what you come up with. I believe Mara used her with positive results. Hope that helps!

 

[Kaleigh]

I''ve only read positive things about her here. Good luck!!

 

[valeria101]

Date: 2/5/2006 6:05:25 PM
Author: bamcw328i

....they said it commanded a premium cause it was an excellent cut, polish, & symmetry; plus it was a high grade. Is this really true?

Well, if they can charge more for those finish perks, than they must 'command a premium'

The catch... well, those grades don't show much, and GIA has started grading cut. If the lab report is recent enough it should either have the new grades on or you could have the cut grade released upon inquiry (in fact, I think there is a website for this). Sure enough, the finish grades this seller uses to charge extra are not as meaningful as the content of the new GIA 'paper'. IMO, this makes a pretty good argument against the said claim.

If there is a cut grade ... well, I can't know more about this diamond than you say: the listing online at 'Engagementringsdirect' does not give a copy of the GIA report or its number (could have missed it...). The proportions are not given and the 'Ideal Scope' image there is not scope but H&A viewer image and ... how do I know it corresponds to this diamond? All those pictures look alike... perhaps they didn't finish the website or something.

The comments about 'cut' are generic and do not correspond to the GIA cut grades mentioned above (there is nothing called 'Premium' among GIA grades).

Since you have seen this diamond, the details of online presentation may not be too relevant. The question about cut, would IMO.

My 2c

 

[Mara]

We''ve used Nancy and she is great. She''s not ''expensive'', she charges a fee per hour on par with other expert independent appraisers. If you are looking at spending something like $12k on a stone, pay the ~$150 for the hour to have it appraised and confirmed. She is typically booked up a few weeks out unless it''s a slow time so if you think you may want an appt I would call her ASAP.

Good luck!