“Upgrading” from 0.624 G VS2 to 1.4 K SI2

[SimoneDi]

Just curious why you said hold off a few months, will there be better deal during the holidays or after the holidays?

So that you can save up a bit more $ for the purchase and get what you really want without compromising too much. However, in my experience, the best deals are around Thanksgiving and especially on Cyber Monday (the Monday after Thanksgiving).

I have a question - why do you want to go to 1.3-1.3ct and down to a K color? Even if you go at 1ct that will still be a significant size increase, but it will allow to stay in the near colorless range, at least. I first went from an H which was almost the size as yours to a J and I definitely noticed the color difference. It wasn't a terrible difference, but form a G to a K you may notice it a lot more..

 

[lalala]

So that you can save up a bit more $ for the purchase and get what you really want without compromising too much.

Yes, this. I'd hate for you to go from a super ideal to something less.

ETA: oops, that wasn't OP that asked... @Coconutpalm

 

[jadesilver]

oh right, I forgot that you're looking to upgrade with your jeweler. I'd suggest having the HCA tool handy when your jeweler pulls out diamonds. Make sure you only look at AGS or GIA diamonds.

re: fluor-- honestly, if you end up buying a non-ideal cut J-K diamond with a black inclusion you're not looking for high resale value anyway. The fluor can help make the diamond look less tinted and it will save you money. You could probably even afford to go BIGGER with strong fluor bringing the cost down.

I'd think on this for a few days before jumping into anything.

Did you hear back from WF? Did they make an offer?

Yes, I’ve decided not to accept their offer for now. Definitely won’t be jumping into anything.

 

[jadesilver]

I can’t help but wonder if you are in Singapore and that your jeweler might be JP! Because I have only recently learned about them here in SG and that they specialise in super ideal diamonds.

I have seen my girlfriend’s K 3ct stone with no fluorescence set in a rose gold halo. It is not a super ideal but quite decent in stats and looks pretty white face up! So I think you should be fine.

Only thing is that WF doesn’t stock New fluorescent stones anymore when I asked. Maybe perhaps if someone trades in their expert selection that has fluorescence then one with fluo might pop up.

You won’t go wrong with the ACA plus at this price point you are entering the WF lifetime (read: possibly several ) upgrade policy vs getting one in your B&M which will void the existing upgrade policy you have since they are sourcing a non super ideal for you. My vote goes to WF if it is viable!

I’m still not really keen on fluorescence unless it’s at an irresistible price/as a last resort which usually isn’t the case! I probably won’t be able to go with WF because I’ve decided not to accept their offer for now.

 

[lalala]

@jadesilver so are you currently waiting to see what options your jeweler can find? Super ideal but a K-SI1?

 

[AdaBeta27]

color: I have a MVVS1 that is a H&A recut by Brian Gavin. It is slightly over 1ct. I never had it graded by a lab, but before it was recut, an appraiser said it was M color. It appears face-up whiter after the recut. From the side, body tint is still visible. But even though it is in the light yellow L/M range, it actually does face up darned white in many lighting conditions, and it's a pleasant pale yellow in others. It is set in plated white gold with very white sidestones. There is color contrast but not in a bad way. It looks a lot like those K halo rings that were pictured, above. If you are color sensitive and you really want white or colorless appearance, I think you'd have to make H the cutoff because I has an ivory tint that once you've seen it, you'll never un-see. Either you like the ivory or you don't.

Fluor: I have an old OEC diamond that is I with strong blue fluor. I never noticed the ivory tint in that diamond at all, until I cane to Pricescope and started to scrutinize diamonds. That diamond is very white in virtually all lighting and I only see tint from the side. I believe the blue fluor is what kept me from noticing the I color. The only other diamond I owned at the time I bought this OEC was a G of older cut, and the I OEC with strong blue fluor always looked very bright white compared to that G. I never saw it look blue or violet, not even in sunlight. Many Pricescope people see fluor as a positive thing in a lower color diamond.

Evaluating cut: The HCA tool, as noted. Read https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/preferred-specs-cheat-sheet-for-rounds.88548/. Also take a look at NiceIce,com, the education section, Fast Track, where there are a couple of articles named 5 / 15 Minutes to Success. Todd Gray came up with the Pricescope cheat sheet, which is admittedly a very narrow subset of ideal diamonds, but a good shortcut for picking a good H&A superideal by the numbers.

Inclusions & clarity: Personally, I would rather have a not-totally eyeclean diamond that has, say, one dark speck in an otherwise perfectly clean and clear diamond, vs. something that is "eyeclean" but has several small scattered inclusions. I am happy with great I1 and Si2 diamonds that are not eyeclean at close range, but have a discrete speck or two that hide well. Try to pick a diamond that doesn't have an inclusion sitting directly on top of an arrow, because sometimes the arrows are a white background. Some people get hung up on making sure that inclusions are invisible to the naked eye. But diamonds never stay clean on the outside when worn. To me, size and performance and price outrank clarity in importance. My Si2 GOG signature superideal would literally have cost more than twice as much if it had been an eyeclean VS1.

 

[AdaBeta27]

That's the old OEC with strong blue fluor. It always looks really white, face up in any lighting that has a UV component. Not great pics, I know. But the fluor in this stone is never a negative, appearance-wise. I'm one of those people who doesn't seek perfection. I'm a technologist who seeks maximum bling for low cost.

 

[foxinsox]

I'm a technologist who seeks maximum bling for low cost.

This is such a useful description!

 

[jadesilver]

@jadesilver so are you currently waiting to see what options your jeweler can find? Super ideal but a K-SI1?

Super Ideal or ideal cut. It doesn’t have to be Super Ideal - I am going to ask them if they are able to find something like the WF stone (Super Ideal Cut but with flaws) or something like the AGS0 that HappyNewLife recommended but maybe with eyeclean (ideal cut, no black specks, ok with feathers crystals and clouds etc) SI1-2 clarity instead. (https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-j-color-vs1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-3487491)

I think I would be happy with ideal cut.

 

[jadesilver]

color: I have a MVVS1 that is a H&A recut by Brian Gavin. It is slightly over 1ct. I never had it graded by a lab, but before it was recut, an appraiser said it was M color. It appears face-up whiter after the recut. From the side, body tint is still visible. But even though it is in the light yellow L/M range, it actually does face up darned white in many lighting conditions, and it's a pleasant pale yellow in others. It is set in plated white gold with very white sidestones. There is color contrast but not in a bad way. It looks a lot like those K halo rings that were pictured, above. If you are color sensitive and you really want white or colorless appearance, I think you'd have to make H the cutoff because I has an ivory tint that once you've seen it, you'll never un-see. Either you like the ivory or you don't.

Fluor: I have an old OEC diamond that is I with strong blue fluor. I never noticed the ivory tint in that diamond at all, until I cane to Pricescope and started to scrutinize diamonds. That diamond is very white in virtually all lighting and I only see tint from the side. I believe the blue fluor is what kept me from noticing the I color. The only other diamond I owned at the time I bought this OEC was a G of older cut, and the I OEC with strong blue fluor always looked very bright white compared to that G. I never saw it look blue or violet, not even in sunlight. Many Pricescope people see fluor as a positive thing in a lower color diamond.

Evaluating cut: The HCA tool, as noted. Read https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/preferred-specs-cheat-sheet-for-rounds.88548/. Also take a look at NiceIce,com, the education section, Fast Track, where there are a couple of articles named 5 / 15 Minutes to Success. Todd Gray came up with the Pricescope cheat sheet, which is admittedly a very narrow subset of ideal diamonds, but a good shortcut for picking a good H&A superideal by the numbers.

Inclusions & clarity: Personally, I would rather have a not-totally eyeclean diamond that has, say, one dark speck in an otherwise perfectly clean and clear diamond, vs. something that is "eyeclean" but has several small scattered inclusions. I am happy with great I1 and Si2 diamonds that are not eyeclean at close range, but have a discrete speck or two that hide well. Try to pick a diamond that doesn't have an inclusion sitting directly on top of an arrow, because sometimes the arrows are a white background. Some people get hung up on making sure that inclusions are invisible to the naked eye. But diamonds never stay clean on the outside when worn. To me, size and performance and price outrank clarity in importance. My Si2 GOG signature superideal would literally have cost more than twice as much if it had been an eyeclean VS1.

All of this is awesome. Thank you for all these great examples! Your rings are stunning. Size, cut (performance) and price outrank inclusions and color for me as well. Your diamonds are a perfect example of the kind of diamond I’m looking for. I’ll look into the resources you suggested, thank you!

It looks like whether or not a K is “acceptable” depends on the individual diamond, some might be slightly whiter than others depending on other factors. I’m pretty okay with the Ks I’ve seen in this thread and an ivory diamond and I don’t think it’ll bother me.

 

[Rivendell]

Why don’t you halo the stone you have? That will make it look significantly bigger It sounds a lovely stone - maybe smaller than you’d like but great colour, cut and clarity I’m sure it would look stunning in a halo setting

 

[jadesilver]

Why don’t you halo the stone you have? That will make it look significantly bigger It sounds a lovely stone - maybe smaller than you’d like but great colour, cut and clarity I’m sure it would look stunning in a halo setting

I think that a halo setting will overpower it and it can’t disguise the size. I find it a small stone and I’m not at all happy with the size. I also regret going with good specs and a not-very-big size - if I had known about pricescope before my purchase I would have had more confidence about going with an imperfect stone with less clarity and slightly worse color, H or I even.

Then again, I could not possibly have realized that I feel that I don’t need the extra-sparkly and the whiteness until I spent months with the stone and examining it in every possible lighting. So maybe I needed to make this journey with a whiter Super Ideal stone.

I have another diamond that is ideal cut, not Super ideal cut, and I’m happy with the sparkliness on that. I have another even worse diamond (I think it even has a chip on it haha) and the cut is awful and it is clearly different from the other two (very slightly cloudy in daylight, just not as sparkly) so I assume it can’t be of a good clarity. It still sparkles very prettily in indoor lighting though.

My only thought is that neither of those are yellowish, so I don’t have much experience with K diamonds and I would have to look at that in person.

 

[Rivendell]

I think that a halo setting will overpower it and it can’t disguise the size. I find it a small stone and I’m not at all happy with the size. I also regret going with good specs and a not-very-big size - if I had known about pricescope before my purchase I would have had more confidence about going with an imperfect stone with less clarity and slightly worse color, H or I even.

Then again, I could not possibly have realized that I feel that I don’t need the extra-sparkly and the whiteness until I spent months with the stone and examining it in every possible lighting. So maybe I needed to make this journey with a whiter Super Ideal stone.

I have another diamond that is ideal cut, not Super ideal cut, and I’m happy with the sparkliness on that. I have another even worse diamond (I think it even has a chip on it haha) and the cut is awful and it is clearly different from the other two (very slightly cloudy in daylight, just not as sparkly) so I assume it can’t be of a good clarity. It still sparkles very prettily in indoor lighting though.

My only thought is that neither of those are yellowish, so I don’t have much experience with K diamonds and I would have to look at that in person.

Yes you would need to check the K colour in real life. You can’t really tell from photos.

 

[SimoneDi]

Yes, this. I'd hate for you to go from a super ideal to something less.

ETA: oops, that wasn't OP that asked... @Coconutpalm

Opsie, I should read more carefully who's posting

 

[jadesilver]

Yes you would need to check the K colour in real life. You can’t really tell from photos.

Yep, I agree with you!

 

[HappyNewLife]

I think that a halo setting will overpower it and it can’t disguise the size. I find it a small stone and I’m not at all happy with the size. I also regret going with good specs and a not-very-big size - if I had known about pricescope before my purchase I would have had more confidence about going with an imperfect stone with less clarity and slightly worse color, H or I even.

Then again, I could not possibly have realized that I feel that I don’t need the extra-sparkly and the whiteness until I spent months with the stone and examining it in every possible lighting. So maybe I needed to make this journey with a whiter Super Ideal stone.

I have another diamond that is ideal cut, not Super ideal cut, and I’m happy with the sparkliness on that. I have another even worse diamond (I think it even has a chip on it haha) and the cut is awful and it is clearly different from the other two (very slightly cloudy in daylight, just not as sparkly) so I assume it can’t be of a good clarity. It still sparkles very prettily in indoor lighting though.

My only thought is that neither of those are yellowish, so I don’t have much experience with K diamonds and I would have to look at that in person.

Many of us have gotten a bigger diamond the second or third time around. Diamond shrinkage does happen! Try not to regret it, it was just what you thought you wanted and now you have the opportunity to upgrade size! Woohoo!

 

[AdaBeta27]

One of Wink's videos of a Crafted By Infinity K H&A:

CBI makes more modern H&A in the warmer colors and also lower charities, than anyone else. There might be more K videos on Wink's channel.


This one is an OEC K that is closer to L, by Good Old Gold. L is definitely a pale yellow. I've found that I like warmer diamonds, particularly the pale yellows.

Wink's other channel shows his own ring, which is P from CB.

 

[blingblingdiamond]

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...k-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3626679

Take a look of this one. Even though the Polish is just very good, this stone appear to be a high performer.

 

[jadesilver]

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...k-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3626679

Take a look of this one. Even though the Polish is just very good, this stone appear to be a high performer.

This looks good, I’ll show it to my jeweller.

Actually this is my dream diamond: https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...rat-k-color-si1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-3359532

That’s the one you got lol!!!! I even went and compared 1.5 ct to 1.66 ct on the diamond comparison website to see if the one you recommended would be around the size of the 1.66 xD I really think you are amazing (and it must be due to your hard work!) for finding such a perfect size at an excellent price! It’s so clean! (IMO compared to the others I’ve seen of those stats)

Thanks so much for taking the time to look for an option! I have been trying very hard to look on JA a few times a day, but I often get discouraged/lost by the outrageously terribly-cut diamonds. I put in K, Ideal cut, my price range 0-$6500 (hahaha your beautiful diamond increased my supposed budget) but I still get a bit lost, or I’m only seeing the ones with great big black spots right in the middle. And I’m not sure if my jeweller can buy true hearts or only the virtual ones, I’d guess only the virtual ones.

 

[jadesilver]

Many of us have gotten a bigger diamond the second or third time around. Diamond shrinkage does happen! Try not to regret it, it was just what you thought you wanted and now you have the opportunity to upgrade size! Woohoo!

It’s stressing me out being stuck to one store and having to rely on their rules and diamond availability and cooperation to trade in, I never thought I’d ever want to trade in haha. But let’s see how it goes, I’ll try not to be stressed about it xD I also know they’re pretty fair and they want me to be happy so I think they won’t mark up a JA diamond if I ask them to order it...... I HOPE haha

 

[jadesilver]

One of Wink's videos of a Crafted By Infinity K H&A:

CBI makes more modern H&A in the warmer colors and also lower charities, than anyone else. There might be more K videos on Wink's channel.


This one is an OEC K that is closer to L, by Good Old Gold. L is definitely a pale yellow. I've found that I like warmer diamonds, particularly the pale yellows.

Wink's other channel shows his own ring, which is P from CB.

These are so beautiful and I think I’m ready for a pale yellow K! I think that based on my budget and looking at HPD’s site, I might not be able to get a Super Ideal though and I’m happy with that. Still, good to know and to see some Ks in action!

 

[jadesilver]

Current status: My jeweller said they’ll get back to me by tomorrow because she thinks they have some ideal cut AGS0 K stones with fluorescence in my price range, but she has to check.

I’ve also put out feelers for selling my diamond trade-in credit locally at a discount (it’s a popular store) but am not certain if that will work out!

I’ve decided my dream stone is something like blingblingdiamond’s 1.66 AGS0 K SI1 (eyeclean) strong fluorescence and I’ve asked my jeweller to look for one with the same stats and price xD

 

[blingblingdiamond]

This looks good, I’ll show it to my jeweller.

Actually this is my dream diamond: https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...rat-k-color-si1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-3359532

That’s the one you got lol!!!! I even went and compared 1.5 ct to 1.66 ct on the diamond comparison website to see if the one you recommended would be around the size of the 1.66 xD I really think you are amazing (and it must be due to your hard work!) for finding such a perfect size at an excellent price! It’s so clean! (IMO compared to the others I’ve seen of those stats)

Thanks so much for taking the time to look for an option! I have been trying very hard to look on JA a few times a day, but I often get discouraged/lost by the outrageously terribly-cut diamonds. I put in K, Ideal cut, my price range 0-$6500 (hahaha your beautiful diamond increased my supposed budget) but I still get a bit lost, or I’m only seeing the ones with great big black spots right in the middle. And I’m not sure if my jeweller can buy true hearts or only the virtual ones, I’d guess only the virtual ones.

Thank you so much for your kind words!! I am proud of picking out this beautiful diamonds! And I totally feel you. I have been through what you are experiencing right now. I looked at JA/BN/WF/GOG multiple times a day and got frustrated because of what I want vs my limited budget. I will try my best to help (keep my eyes on JA). Also I don't think true hearts are in house because mine is a TH but had IDJ to source the stone as suppose to buying it on JA. I would say try asking your jeweler. They might have access to TH stones. Good Luck!

 

[jadesilver]

Thank you so much for your kind words!! I am proud of picking out this beautiful diamonds! And I totally feel you. I have been through what you are experiencing right now. I looked at JA/BN/WF/GOG multiple times a day and got frustrated because of what I want vs my limited budget. I will try my best to help (keep my eyes on JA). Also I don't think true hearts are in house because mine is a TH but had IDJ to source the stone as suppose to buying it on JA. I would say try asking your jeweler. They might have access to TH stones. Good Luck!

That’s a very helpful piece of information, thanks for the tip! Hopefully my jeweler can source a TH stone. Yeah, I’m going through the exact same thing except not frustrated with my budget cause I can’t imagine spending more. But I do want to go as big as you did haha. I am so happy for you that you found such an awesome diamond!

 

[blingblingdiamond]

It is going to take a while before finding your unicorn. but if you are not in rush then take your time. Don't get discouraged. If I can do it, you can too!

 

[jadesilver]

Update: My jeweler said that they have an ideal cut 1.65ct K fluorescence diamond listed at $11,400 (bargainable I think but the price I feel was still ridiculous for those stats, but I can’t blame them since BM store), but I said I wanted something of those stats at $6,500 max. I told her that I would like a diamond like the one I showed her on JA and I asked if she felt this was possible within my price range. (She’s had a lot of chances to say no!) She said she’ll look for it and will get back to me by next Tuesday. I also showed her the 1.5 ct diamond on JA that blingblingdiamond kindly recommended and said that I’m fine if she gets that exact diamond although I’d prefer 1.6ct! She said she would try to see if she could source it via the GIA number, but sometimes the diamonds are held by JA. It is literally the only very nice-looking K 1.5ct in a sea of terrible, filtered as “excellent cut”, diamonds with the hearts and arrows being very messed up.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...k-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3626679

I have a question, do you guys not-recommend a long feather or an indented natural near or at the edge of the diamond? Even if covered by prongs, can this cause cracking of the diamond? I don’t wear my diamond unless I’m going out or just hanging out or typing (so no chores, no showering and no active work), and based on my experience, I haven’t really knocked it on stuff. Do you think this is a good gamble?

P.S. Inspired by the 2 ct under 8k thread, what do you guys think of https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...l-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3633616

It scores HCA 3.7 but I’m like wellllll HDer’s 2ct ring was HCA 2.9 and beautiful! Maybe I won’t drift too far off HCA 2.9 and look for something closer to 2.

My standards are getting low and greedier here, but I think the concept and practicality of 2ct for under 8k is perfectly suited to what I want as a very average and not-picky consumer - basically something somewhat sparkly, a nice size (the bigger the better because I really want to avoid DSS), at a price I’m happy with, with all of the flaws like L color and inclusions if there are any (which I can totally accept because of the price!)

 

[blingblingdiamond]

I am sorry to hear your jeweler couldn't source a pretty 1.6 k stone within your budget. I don't know enough but I feel like it's hard to get a 1.6 ct K diamond, (almost 1.7) at 6.5k. Not to mention how good the cut is. Try to see if your jeweler can source the stone I sent you earlier.

I wanted to say no to the 2.01 L stone you suggested. I don't even think this stone is the PS quality... you are going to notice a lot of differences going from a super ideal to this stone.... I don't have enough experience, I hope other seasoned PSers will chime in.

 

[jadesilver]

I am sorry to hear your jeweler couldn't source a pretty 1.6 k stone within your budget. I don't know enough but I feel like it's hard to get a 1.6 ct K diamond, (almost 1.7) at 6.5k. Not to mention how good the cut is. Try to see if your jeweler can source the stone I sent you earlier.

I wanted to say no to the 2.01 L stone you suggested. I don't even think this stone is the PS quality... you are going to notice a lot of differences going from a super ideal to this stone.... I don't have enough experience, I hope other seasoned PSers will chime in.

Thanks for your advice! I’ll avoid the 2.01 L stone then.

I’ve asked my jeweler about the 1.5 stone you kindly sent me and if she doesn’t have any other options, I’ll be happy to go with that stone, it looks really good overall and at a good price!

 

[lalala]

My standards are getting low and greedier here, but I think the concept and practicality of 2ct for under 8k is perfectly suited to what I want as a very average and not-picky consumer - basically something somewhat sparkly, a nice size (the bigger the better because I really want to avoid DSS), at a price I’m happy with, with all of the flaws like L color and inclusions if there are any (which I can totally accept because of the price!)

You're thinking about going from a super ideal G to a poorly cut L? Might as well get a giant CZ and save your money.

In all seriousness, I'd take a break and think about what you really want. If you do really just want size, then go for it, if that's what will make you happy.

Personally, I'd stay with a super ideal and drop a couple levels in color and get the biggest diamond in that range for your budget.

 

[mochiko42]

Instead of an L with a so-so cut, I would personally just 'go big' & embrace the warmth by getting an ideal cut 'M' or warmer and set in colored metal (yellow gold..) or with a vintage cut stone. BG doesn't have a huge selection right now but you could always ask if they have anything not yet listed.
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/signature-diamonds/cape