“Upgrading” from 0.624 G VS2 to 1.4 K SI2

[jadesilver]

Hi everyone! I want to upgrade my diamond in size but I’m worried I’ll “feel” the difference in specs. I have a Super Ideal Cut, would be changing it to a Excellent/Very Good cut and am ok with fluorescence (rose gold setting).

My budget is $4,000 - $5,000 for a diamond of excellent/very good cut, 1.3-1.5 ct, K-L, SI2, ok with medium fluorescence if the price justifies it. Happy as long as it’s eye clean. Just want to avoid obvious black specks. Do you think this budget is realistic? I feel like I might notice the color (I’m okay with K) so maybe I should stick with K to be safe?

I may be surrounding it by a halo, is it important that the halo stones are lower in color as well?

Would appreciate any advice or experiences with increasing size and lowering stats. Thanks everyone for all your extremely helpful previous posts and sharing your expertise!

 

[lalala]

Cut is king. I'd hold off for a few months and save so that you can get another super ideal cut. Where is your original diamond from? They, more than likely, have an upgrade policy.

 

[jadesilver]

Thanks for your response! They do, it’s from a local jeweler, but for $5,000 I would only be able to upgrade to a 0.8 ct Super Ideal Cut diamond. I’ve looked at that size in person in the same store and even took pictures of the 0.624 and 0.82 next to each other and it was pretty negligible for an additional $2,000. I’ve looked at my comparison picture a lot haha. I paid a little over $3,000 for the first diamond. I think maybe you’re right though, I could lower my hopes of carat size to 1 ct (which would still be a price jump....) and focus on cut instead. Thank you for the reminder.

I don’t think i can justify paying more than $6000 total for the new stone, not about saving for it but more about I don’t think I can justify it to myself I feel that personally, I may prioritize the size over the sparkliness in some lighting (e.g. in the shade, I’m okay if it looks dull) but as long as it’s moderately sparkly in LED lighting I’ll be ok with that.

 

[lalala]

I totally get that. Are you in the US or another country?

 

[jadesilver]

I’m in Asia, but I’ve already reached out to Whiteflash to ask them for an offer on my current diamond haha. But I very much doubt that I’ll be able to get a good price on that, I’m guessing a 30% loss at least. Some of the diamonds I looked at on WF look pretty okay in my price range though (of course not ACA level), and I trust that WF standards would ensure that they are “quite” or “average” sparkly in LED light.

My local jeweler can most likely exchange the old stone (100% trade-in policy) with a new stone that they can order for me via GIA/AGS number, but I’m waiting for them to respond on that.

 

[lalala]

Gotcha. If you are going to go with WF it would be for their ACA or expert selection. Their other diamonds are "virtual" and found on many sites. Your local jeweler should be able to source any diamond you find online.. do they have their own website with options?

 

[jadesilver]

Oh I see! Thank you! That explains a lot. No, my budget won’t fit an ACA diamond. I just thought that the fact that it’s listed on WF meant that WF has assessed it based on WF’s more stringent standards and it’s probably an acceptable diamond.

No, the local jeweler is a BM store. I know that they have helped buyers to source a stone found online, but have asked if they allow that for trade-ins.

Thanks very much for your input

 

[lalala]

Others will chime in tomorrow. It's late here in the US

 

[jadesilver]

you should get some sleep!

Update from the jeweler - they will trade in 100% and are able to source any online stone for me, but warned me that SI1-SI2 might cause chipping of the diamond if I bump it and may not be eye clean. So many people with beautiful SI stones that are eye clean though, I’ll just have to be careful with my diamond. I haven’t bumped the current one much because I often wear it only when I’m leaving the house and don’t wear it while working (active job). Also their future trade-in policy becomes void if I choose to trade in with a sourced non-super-ideal stone, so I’ll have to choose very very carefully!

I’m so excited guys! Now the only thing is that I have to go compare an 1ct excellent cut with Super Ideal cut (going to ask them to take it outside the store at the doorway to look at it in daylight, shaded daylight and shade) to ensure that I will be happy even if the diamond is not of an equally good cut.

 

[HappyNewLife]

I've never heard anything about SI clarity diamonds being less durable. Sure, if there's a feather, but not in general. Good luck- I hope you find a diamond you like. Since you don't mind some color or inclusions you should be able to get a bigger diamond for your budget. Let us know what you choose!

 

[jadesilver]

What are your thoughts on this ACA WF 1.318 K SI1? A few clouds in the report. Will have to ask if it’s eye clean.
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3895782.htm

Thanks to lalala’s timely reminder, I think I’ll prioritize cut and I’ll probably be okay even with visible inclusions.

HappyNewLife, thanks for verifying that about SI diamonds. Often I do see feathers near the edge though but not right at the edge. Thank you, I hope so too!

 

[missyminx]

What are your thoughts on this ACA WF 1.318 K SI1? A few clouds in the report. Will have to ask if it’s eye clean.
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3895782.htm

Thanks to lalala’s timely reminder, I think I’ll prioritize cut and I’ll probably be okay even with visible inclusions.

HappyNewLife, thanks for verifying that about SI diamonds. Often I do see feathers near the edge though but not right at the edge. Thank you, I hope so too!

incidentally Michelle from WF helped me review this stone when I was looking for a stone to match one that i already had.
She compared it to other K ACAs and it was the warmest, i.e. it isn't a high K. She is quite colour-sensitive so I trust her eye.
in terms of inclusions, she said she knew what she was looking for so at 8-10 inches she could still see the small black inclusion, but beyond 10 inches she could not and all that could be seen is lots of sparkle, brilliance and scintillance.
Thought i'd share this with you since I happened to review the same stone. I really liked this stone for the size and the price point! However as I needed the colour to match the other stone I have, an I, in the end I went with another which should be arriving tonight

I have attached the two photos they took for me showing the K. It might give you a better idea of the inclusions and colour.
Hope it helps!

 

[mochiko42]

Just want to chime in. I'm in Hong Kong now and have bought from Whiteflash several times over the past few years, the transactions were super easy and painless, even for returning previously purchased diamonds for trade up. (I haven't tried trading in a non WF diamond though). I have an I VS2 ACA ring and I/J VS2 ACA earrings,as well as necklace and bracelet with ACA mêlée. I found that the combination of ideal cut and price is hard to beat compared to the prices of equivalent diamonds here (eg. Hearts on Fire). So many vendors here think the 4Cs and GIA triple Ex are all that matters, lol..

I find that my AGS I colour ACA looks as bright and white to me as the GIA G/H diamonds I see in stores here. This may be because I'm not that colour sensitive but I also understand that the superideal cut may make stones face up whiter than the stated body colour (which is graded face down).

 

[tyty333]

I think the K ACA is a very good value if you can handle the inclusions. I did not see a video for the stone. Have you seen one?
I can not see the black inclusions in the real picture but I can see it in the aset and idealscope.

I would ask for a video if you have not see one. I would also like to see a video at 8-10 inches. Ask WF if they have any photos of a K color stone
in a halo. I saw plenty of "J"s in halos which looked fine IMO (slight tint against the melee) but could not find a K in my quick search.

Just found some...




Remember that the rings are being hit with a lot of light for photo purposes so YMMV (and these may be higher Ks). As you probably already know,
WF has an excellent trade up policy so down the road (big birthday or big anniversary) you can maybe upgrade color/clarity and/or SIZE)

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I am afraid you are misunderstanding your jeweler. They are not going to be able to order a WF ACA for you for your trade-in. They are talking about virtual lists of diamonds from diamond suppliers that are available for jewelers to order. Many stones on James Allen are accessible to other jewelers (not True Hearts because I believe they keep those in-house). So start with James Allen.

I think you are making a mistake going from G VS2 to K SI. I would make J SI1 the bottom limit. Even then, some SI1s are not totally eyeclean. My sincere advice is to wait until you save more money and get a stone that you'll be happy with long term. You can see the tint in a K as can be easily seen in the WF stones above.

 

[scarsmum]

This is a decent diamond. It’s hard to find a clean diamond at SI2. That’s one C you may want to rethink. https://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamond/round-diamond-1.32-carat-k-vs1-yd1312703

 

[jadesilver]

incidentally Michelle from WF helped me review this stone when I was looking for a stone to match one that i already had.
She compared it to other K ACAs and it was the warmest, i.e. it isn't a high K. She is quite colour-sensitive so I trust her eye.
in terms of inclusions, she said she knew what she was looking for so at 8-10 inches she could still see the small black inclusion, but beyond 10 inches she could not and all that could be seen is lots of sparkle, brilliance and scintillance.
Thought i'd share this with you since I happened to review the same stone. I really liked this stone for the size and the price point! However as I needed the colour to match the other stone I have, an I, in the end I went with another which should be arriving tonight

I have attached the two photos they took for me showing the K. It might give you a better idea of the inclusions and colour.
Hope it helps!

You are amazing! These photos are so helpful. Thank you so much for these photos and for sharing your experience with this diamond. I think you and Michelle are right about it being a low/quite visible K color.

The part about the inclusion is incredibly helpful and I can see it perfectly so I know what to expect. Actually the inclusion doesn’t bother me at all and I think I would be able to live with it, but the K color is a little worrying as it seems quite dark/warm.

I agree with you, I thought that this was a good buy for ACA cut at this size and price point, but of course it’s priced to accommodate the K-er than usual K color and the visible black inclusion. ACA cut is really valuable to me though so I’m definitely still considering this.

 

[jadesilver]

Just want to chime in. I'm in Hong Kong now and have bought from Whiteflash several times over the past few years, the transactions were super easy and painless, even for returning previously purchased diamonds for trade up. (I haven't tried trading in a non WF diamond though). I have an I VS2 ACA ring and I/J VS2 ACA earrings,as well as necklace and bracelet with ACA mêlée. I found that the combination of ideal cut and price is hard to beat compared to the prices of equivalent diamonds here (eg. Hearts on Fire). So many vendors here think the 4Cs and GIA triple Ex are all that matters, lol..

I find that my AGS I colour ACA looks as bright and white to me as the GIA G/H diamonds I see in stores here. This may be because I'm not that colour sensitive but I also understand that the superideal cut may make stones face up whiter than the stated body colour (which is graded face down).

Hi mochiko42, thanks for chiming in! BMs can be really silly about 4Cs and GIA triple ex. I don’t think I’m super particular about color - a J or not-so-warm K or medium K would be acceptable to me, given that I won’t be comparing it with any other stones other than the halo around it. I am confident that an ACA would look quite bright even if it was J or high K because of the superideal cut as you mentioned. If a stone faces up quite white I’ll be happy, doesn’t matter if it shows a little yellow while turning it to the right or left. My setting is rose gold and vintage-inspired so I’m fine with a little warmth.

Thanks for sharing your experience with WF, I’ve read so many positive experiences with them on this forum!

 

[jadesilver]

I think the K ACA is a very good value if you can handle the inclusions. I did not see a video for the stone. Have you seen one?
I can not see the black inclusions in the real picture but I can see it in the aset and idealscope.

I would ask for a video if you have not see one. I would also like to see a video at 8-10 inches. Ask WF if they have any photos of a K color stone
in a halo. I saw plenty of "J"s in halos which looked fine IMO (slight tint against the melee) but could not find a K in my quick search.

Just found some...




Remember that the rings are being hit with a lot of light for photo purposes so YMMV (and these may be higher Ks). As you probably already know,
WF has an excellent trade up policy so down the road (big birthday or big anniversary) you can maybe upgrade color/clarity and/or SIZE)

Thank you for finding these great and informative K pictures for me! I think I will have to look in person at a really warm K to check if I’m comfortable with it. I am fine with the inclusions if I can get Super Ideal cut at the same time. I can see the black inclusion in the real picture.

 

[jadesilver]

I am afraid you are misunderstanding your jeweler. They are not going to be able to order a WF ACA for you for your trade-in. They are talking about virtual lists of diamonds from diamond suppliers that are available for jewelers to order. Many stones on James Allen are accessible to other jewelers (not True Hearts because I believe they keep those in-house). So start with James Allen.

I think you are making a mistake going from G VS2 to K SI. I would make J SI1 the bottom limit. Even then, some SI1s are not totally eyeclean. My sincere advice is to wait until you save more money and get a stone that you'll be happy with long term. You can see the tint in a K as can be easily seen in the WF stones above.

Thank you for sharing some good advice on this! However, I don’t want to spend any more than $6,000 on the diamond regardless of what stats it has, so I can go down on size/stats but not up on price because I feel it wouldn’t be ok for me. I could go up on price, but I don’t think it would be right for me and I would feel terrible about it. I think $6,000 is a good number (leaving around $650 on top of that for setting the diamond into a new head with a halo while keeping the band (the current head can be cut off cleanly). I think I’ve decided that I don’t want a more perfect stone for more money, but I would be happy with a well-cut, moderately-sized stone with a visible black inclusion, I don’t mind it being there. Maybe even ok with a K that’s on the low end.

You have some great points about J SI1. The SI1 that I was looking at was already pretty bad. I may not be able to fit a J into my size and budget, but I’ll definitely try to based on your advice.

Yeah, I was thinking that they may not be able to order the WF stone for me because that’s in-house. I am still waiting for WF to offer me something for my current stone though and then think about buying through them instead because it’s extremely tempting to work with WF. I’ll look at options on James Allen as well! Do you have any particular tips on finding cuts on JA that are on par or slightly less good as compared to WF’s cuts?

 

[jadesilver]

This is a decent diamond. It’s hard to find a clean diamond at SI2. That’s one C you may want to rethink. https://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamond/round-diamond-1.32-carat-k-vs1-yd1312703

Thank you for this suggestion! That diamond looks good. Maybe I should balance my priorities more and go for ideal cut, eye clean, a-not-very-warm-K, and stay in the size I wanted. That will make a very nice and average white-looking diamond even if it’s less sparkly than a designer cut like ACA.

 

[jadesilver]

What do you guys think? It sounds like my best bet would be to settle for an ideal cut diamond, 1.3 ct, J-K, eye clean SI1-SI2.

In comparison, I was really tempted by ACA cut 1.3ct, very warm K and visible black inclusion SI1.

Which would you pick?

 

[HappyNewLife]

incidentally Michelle from WF helped me review this stone when I was looking for a stone to match one that i already had.
She compared it to other K ACAs and it was the warmest, i.e. it isn't a high K. She is quite colour-sensitive so I trust her eye.
in terms of inclusions, she said she knew what she was looking for so at 8-10 inches she could still see the small black inclusion, but beyond 10 inches she could not and all that could be seen is lots of sparkle, brilliance and scintillance.
Thought i'd share this with you since I happened to review the same stone. I really liked this stone for the size and the price point! However as I needed the colour to match the other stone I have, an I, in the end I went with another which should be arriving tonight

I have attached the two photos they took for me showing the K. It might give you a better idea of the inclusions and colour.
Hope it helps!

I love this community

 

[jadesilver]

I love this community

I know right! Missyminx is awesome for sharing her experience with this exact diamond and even the photos!

 

[HappyNewLife]

This J/VS1 1.3 carat diamond has an AGS0 certificate - you wouldn't have to worry about cut. It's just slightly over your budget:

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-j-color-vs1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-3487491

You would save $100 by being a new customer, bringing the diamond down to $6160

eye clean, ideal cut and a J - seems like a good diamond.

 

[jadesilver]

This J/VS1 1.3 carat diamond has an AGS0 certificate - you wouldn't have to worry about cut. It's just slightly over your budget:

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-j-color-vs1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-3487491

You would save $100 by being a new customer, bringing the diamond down to $6160

eye clean, ideal cut and a J - seems like a good diamond.

Yes, that looks good. Update though, I think I’ll only be able to consider virtual diamonds that several vendors are carrying (so not true hearts as it’s JA’s in-house) so my jeweler can order those. I’ve decided to go that route for now.

I think I’ll wait for my jeweler to respond tomorrow and tell them that I would like to prioritize ideal cut (good tip on AGS0 cert!), eye clean SI1-2, J-K, and see if they can source a few stones for me. Then I’ll show you guys and ask what you think.

They actually specialize in Super Ideal Cut diamonds but I told them I didn’t want Super Ideal and I wanted to focus on size instead. So maybe their expertise can at least help with picking something with a great cut, or finding a flawed Super Ideal cut with K and black inclusion like the WF one but at a price within my budget.

THANK YOU so much everyone! You guys are pretty incredible.

Also, what are your thoughts on fluorescence in a rose gold setting? I’m okay with it being blue in certain lights, but what bothers me slightly is that it would significantly affect the diamond’s value for future resale (not that I plan to). I think I’ll just try to avoid fluorescence, but if the item is at a very good price because of the fluorescence and not market-rate-but-with-fluorescence, then I’ll be happy with it.

 

[HappyNewLife]

oh right, I forgot that you're looking to upgrade with your jeweler. I'd suggest having the HCA tool handy when your jeweler pulls out diamonds. Make sure you only look at AGS or GIA diamonds.

re: fluor-- honestly, if you end up buying a non-ideal cut J-K diamond with a black inclusion you're not looking for high resale value anyway. The fluor can help make the diamond look less tinted and it will save you money. You could probably even afford to go BIGGER with strong fluor bringing the cost down.

 

[lalala]

you should get some sleep!

Update from the jeweler - they will trade in 100% and are able to source any online stone for me, but warned me that SI1-SI2 might cause chipping of the diamond if I bump it and may not be eye clean. So many people with beautiful SI stones that are eye clean though, I’ll just have to be careful with my diamond. I haven’t bumped the current one much because I often wear it only when I’m leaving the house and don’t wear it while working (active job). Also their future trade-in policy becomes void if I choose to trade in with a sourced non-super-ideal stone, so I’ll have to choose very very carefully!

I’m so excited guys! Now the only thing is that I have to go compare an 1ct excellent cut with Super Ideal cut (going to ask them to take it outside the store at the doorway to look at it in daylight, shaded daylight and shade) to ensure that I will be happy even if the diamond is not of an equally good cut.

I'd think on this for a few days before jumping into anything.

Did you hear back from WF? Did they make an offer?

 

[missyminx]

You are amazing! These photos are so helpful. Thank you so much for these photos and for sharing your experience with this diamond. I think you and Michelle are right about it being a low/quite visible K color.

The part about the inclusion is incredibly helpful and I can see it perfectly so I know what to expect. Actually the inclusion doesn’t bother me at all and I think I would be able to live with it, but the K color is a little worrying as it seems quite dark/warm.

I agree with you, I thought that this was a good buy for ACA cut at this size and price point, but of course it’s priced to accommodate the K-er than usual K color and the visible black inclusion. ACA cut is really valuable to me though so I’m definitely still considering this.

I can’t help but wonder if you are in Singapore and that your jeweler might be JP! Because I have only recently learned about them here in SG and that they specialise in super ideal diamonds.

I have seen my girlfriend’s K 3ct stone with no fluorescence set in a rose gold halo. It is not a super ideal but quite decent in stats and looks pretty white face up! So I think you should be fine.

Only thing is that WF doesn’t stock New fluorescent stones anymore when I asked. Maybe perhaps if someone trades in their expert selection that has fluorescence then one with fluo might pop up.

You won’t go wrong with the ACA plus at this price point you are entering the WF lifetime (read: possibly several ) upgrade policy vs getting one in your B&M which will void the existing upgrade policy you have since they are sourcing a non super ideal for you. My vote goes to WF if it is viable!

 

[Coconutpalm]

Cut is king. I'd hold off for a few months and save so that you can get another super ideal cut. Where is your original diamond from? They, more than likely, have an upgrade policy.

Just curious why you said hold off a few months, will there be better deal during the holidays or after the holidays?