Zzzzzzzzzzzz....the baby/toddler please oh please SLEEP thread

[littlelysser]

CC - Wanted to chime in on the sleep stuffs you are dealing with. Calvin is also teething. He now has TWO TEETH! And we had the SAME issue with him before they came in.

By way of back ground, like O, Calvin has always been a good sleeper at night. Going 12 hours for the most part, and we've never really let him CIO...not because I'm opposed really, it just hasn't been necessary.

Anyway, before the teeth really broke through, we had several nights of horrid sleep. We couldn't get him down - totally unlike Calvin. We'd get him to sleep and the minute we'd put him down, he was back awake. He did it another night at like 4a.m. and we just could not get him back down.

Our solution? Whiskey in his bottle. Ha.

Okay, really, we gave him some motrin at night before his bedtime feeding. It really seemed to help. A friend of mine said that her pediatrician told her that teething was so painful that if adults had to do, we'd be in the hospital on a morphine drip!

And as much as it stunk, we went in there and chilled him out when he got really upset. We let him fuss until he was blue in the face, but when/if he really started crying we went in and rocked him, etc.

It only lasted a 3 or 4 nights and he's back to his old sleeping self, *knock on wood*.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

littlelysser, when I was in college my impacted wisdom teeth were *trying* to break through. REALLY painful. I also had an ear infection as an adult...those are no joke! Poor little babies.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 4/1/2010 2:21:37 AM
Author: pennquaker09
I''ve tried letting Gray CIO, but I just don''t have the heart to do it. But he only does that with me, he won''t do it with Nate because he knows it won''t work. Nate is adamant about letting him CIO. And I don''t think it''s because he''s a pediatrician, I think that''s just his parenting style. Their actual ped doesn''t have a strong opinion for or against it. He actually recommended I do what dreamer does, but I started picking him up and rocking him when he was an infant and now that he''s almost 23 months, I have him spoiled.

We don''t have any of these issues with Savannah. The only time she doesn''t sleep is when she''s sick. When they turned one last year, she pretty much goes to sleep when she''s sleepy. And it''s usually around the same times.

See, ya gotta put him down again before he gets too sleepy

He is not spoiled, he loves his Daddy.

 

[Mandarine]

So I decided to give CIO a try. They are a week shy from 6 months and only eating 3 oz overnight...not even that enthusiastic when they were eating!

Anyway, I know I''m weak and a wimp so I chose the "cio for wimps" method! They don'' call it that in the book but it'' basically what it is!

You set a time limit for the crying that you are comfortable with. For me that was 45 minutes....if they were still crying after that, I would feed them their happy 3 oz!.

Anyway, so last night was night 1!

2:40am - one baby wakes up and cries for 8 minutes! (Couldn''t believe it! 8 mins??? But I knew the night was young! Haha)
3:35am - other baby (I assume it was the other baby!) Wakes up and cries for like 20 mins...I don'' know if it was constant crying because I fell sleep!....so it wasn''t even loud enough for me to stay up!
4:30 to like 5:15.. Off and on crying, but not loud....I think this was a combo of both babies, taking turns. So not one baby crying constantly...I have no way of knowing though as I don''t have a video monitor and I didn''t wnat to go in the room. They fell sleep after some chatter.

None of the crying was like bloddy murder crying...and none of it was very constant either.

That was it. Then Lucas woke up at 7am and Alex at 730am.

So that wasn''t bad at all! They woke up super happy too! Just chatting, not crying!

What do you think? I think they are just ready and the 3 oz are just habit..I''m ready for them to start sleeping, but dare I say I missed them last night?. I know, I''m a weirdo wimp!

Tonight will be night 2.....I''m just wondering...did I just get lucky and had an "easy" first night?. Should I expect the next 2 nights to be better or worse???

 

[taovandel]

Nice job, Mandy! I''m crossing my fingers that it wasn''t just a fluke and I''m sure there will be a couple of rough nights thrown in---just to keep you on your toes. I hope tonight goes just as well (And better!)



We aren''t doing cry it out just yet (He''s 5 months) but for the past three nights all we''ve had to do is get up once with him to just pop the pacifier back in and he falls back asleep. He slept until 8 today! He probably would have gone longer but I was vacuuming in the other room. So happy to have my baby back! 4 months-4 months 3 weeks was torture getting up every couple of hours....

 

[steph72276]

Just want to send a big huge hug to all the moms struggling with sleep deprivation. For me, that is the very hardest part of being a parent. My mood and tolerance level totally changes with lack of sleep. I think it is so true that different methods work for different babies and their corresponding personalities.

For my first son (who is now 5), we never had to do cry it out. We just did the whole 3 hour EASY method (although I didn't really know it was called that then). We would do a bedtime routine that would consist of a warm bath (every other day we just did a quick sponge bath), a lotion rubdown and then would give a bottle and rock with the lights low and soft classical music playing (baby einstein's classic lullabye cd). He started sleeping solidly through the night at 8 weeks. There were times where he would regress when he was teething or if he was sick, but would get back on track within a few days. We are lucky that he has pretty much been a great sleeper since then. I DID use the CIO method (I guess you could call it that) during naptimes when we was older in his big boy bed. He never wanted to nap without me laying down beside him, but that was my only time to get anything accomplished, so I finally told him he would have to stay in his bed by himself at naptime. I did let him take one book and told him that he didn't have to fall asleep, but he did have to rest. Every single day, he would ask "do I have to go to sleep?" and I would tell him no, but he had to stay in the bed for the whole naptime and every single day, he would fall asleep after about 20 minutes of laying there, sometimes playing with his book or sometimes crying at first.

Now that we have our second son (9 weeks), we are doing the same method. Last week, he started going 6 hour stretches. This week he was going 7 hours, and last night he went 9 hours...I'm crossing my fingers that he continues! I don't think I will do CIO for him if he suddenly stops sleeping through the night ONLY because of the fact that my 5 year old son's room is right next door and he is such a light sleeper that anything wakes him up. I don't want E's crying to keep him up when he has to go to school the next day. However, I might change that idea if E starts having sleep issues, but I will cross that path if I need to.

I knew I could never do the co sleep thing when we had to do that on a vacation we took b/c Andrew loved to sleep sideways in the bed. Getting kicked in the face 12 times in the middle of the night is no fun at all

. I think the people that co sleep must have little ones that sleep soundly and don't thrash around during the night b/c I know I wouldn't get any sleep at all if I did this method. I am a light sleeper myself though and would wake up at any and every sound/movement. Count me in on one that likes my "own space" in bed too. I think the mother's personality has a lot to do with sleep methods as well. But no matter what method you are using, I wish everyone sleep success with their little ones!

 

[gingerB]

Happy Saturday everyone! Hubbs and I are going on maybe 2-3 hours total sleep a piece right now so I''m going to post a me-centric post today

. But I do want to

to all the mamas with babies making progress on sleep! It gives me hope to read that it does happen eventually so don''t feel bad posting your triumphs

Right now hubbs and I are going on the premise that A is going through a MAJOR growth spurt. And like Sophia, he''s decided to be awake through the whole thing

.

Yesterday evening we were feeling really hopeless and dejected. The house was a mess, A was fussy and hubbs and I were snippy. THen MIL and my SILs came over, which initially I was annoyed because, well I was overall grouchy and I didn''t want A to get extra stim so close to his )supposed) bedtime. BUt it was awesome, they came in like a whirlwind and took over. WHich normally I hate, but before we knew it the house was clean, A was bathed and prepped for his bedtime routine and hubbs and I were eating dinner while MIL was attempting to soothe him to sleep. Just having that couple of hours to sit with hubbs and eat totally refreshed me and gave me hope for the night. Which is good that it started off at a high point cuz things quickly went downhill.

1030 - woke for first feed, normal, went back down easy
120 - woke up for 2nd feed, normal, went back down easy
230 - woke up crying, soothed back to sleep after 30 min
330 - woke up crying, had 2rd feed, changed diaper, soothed to sleep
400 - woke up crying, soothed
415 - woke up crying soothed
430 - woke up crying had 4th feed, back to sleep

500 - desperate gingerb googles growth spurts and how to remain sane when bottle feeding (can''t just pop him on the boob unfort). decides to throw overfeeding caution to the wind and feed gingerbaby until either he chills or milk starts pouring out if his pores. at least that way i can say the fussiness is not due to hunger and rule that factor out.

530 - woke up crying, soothed to sleep quicklly
620 - woke up crying had 5th feed, would not sleep, stayed up but with heavy eyes and refused to sleep
815 - had 6th feed and crashed with the bottle
947 - woke up and had another bottle

has been awake since. had another bottle at 1215. just crashed right now at 130. so now i am doing the crazy pumping to try to keep up with my ravenous little dude. hubbs and i are praying this is a 2-3 day growth spurt, but i have this sneaking suspicion that we are not so lucky.

good news: the room for his nursery is finally free so we are planning to try to set that up today and move him in. we figure his sleeping and eating is SO crazy erratic right no why not just pile it on and get it over with. at least this way only one person is up with the craziness at a time versus one trying desperately to soothe and the other trying deperately to block out the crying and sleep in order to relieve the soother later, all in the same room.

any bottle feeding moms have a strategy on how to estimate how big of a bottle to give at a time?

 

[Mara]

wow ginger that is a lot of feeding!! how much is he taking at each feed?

here are some strategy suggestions...though not sure what you have tried.
--giving him more during the day so he wakes less at night (the idea anyway)
--giving him more right before bed so he wakes less at night
--giving him cluster feedings before bed (aka if he goes down at 9 then feed him at 6, 7, 8 to try to keep him satiated for night)

do you still think he is refluxing a lot? i don't think he is waking every 15-30 min because he is hungry. and some growth spurts they don't need to eat as much (according to our pedi anyway...)... so maybe he's in pain? is he screaming crying or just fussing crying when he gets up at night?

if he is refluxing and you can hear it, then i would see if you guys can try zantac or the other med that dr's recommend. if it works then at least you know what the problem is and decide if you want to continue medicating or how to proceed.

will he take a paci? if so then do you guys try that when he wakes up so soon after a feed to try to give him the sucking sensation--it's supposedly soothing.

do you guys have white noise for him? that totally soothes J big time when we are not around...if you guys don't have something i'd get something to try. i love the sleep sheep (got it on amazon and we have prime so we got next day delivery for $3.99...i was like GIVE IT TO ME NOW) and it's only like $17.

and i agree the nursery will be good for him...i know that a lot of parents do just fine with the baby in their room long-term but for us it was so much better for him to be in his own space, we moved him at i think 3 weeks to the nursery. i was less stressed about noises and that was actually when he started sleeping longer stretches too..it could have been just age coincidence but his room is quieter with us not making noise, greg not snoring etc and i really felt like it made a diff for everyone. plus i am a believer in trying to establish 'routine' you want to continue as early as possible, even if the kids don't pick it up right away at least when it clicks for them you don't have to change anything. the one last thing we have to do now is the final crib move.. but i'm so paranoid.

oh and last thing, not sure if you saw this in the newborn thread but our pedi noted that right now with allergies and all that, it can affect the reflux for the babies since it has to do with breathing and the airways etc... i was wondering why J's was a little bit more pronounced this week and she thought it was because of that. so maybe A is having allergies or fighting a cold?

good luck!!!

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 4/1/2010 8:41:28 AM
Author: waxing lyrical


You''re in the UK, right? Is it more common there? My mom was more mainstream when she had me than when she had my sister. Until she and my dad divorced she was fairly mainstream. I slept with my mom for a number of years growing up. Not on a consistent basis, but I still slept with her. My mom nursed my sister past a year and she slept with her on a consistent basis until she was 4, I believe (when she was single).

That''s been the greatest influence for me. It was practical and made sense. Made breastfeeding much easier. I dreaded getting up twice in the night to pump when Henry was a newborn. I know I needed to in order to build my supply, but I hated getting up. Now I don''t have to do anything other than latch him on. We''re good to go at that point.

Oh, and having a king bed makes it much more comfortable. Lots of room.

I don''t think it''s more common over here - they only people I know who co-slept are my sister and Indian friends. My mother did a bit on and off, certainly my parents were very supportive of co-sleeping and find it very strange that my SIL moved her and my brother''s son into his own room at a week old.

My parents were a weird mix of hippy and very orthodox: when I was very small, my father worked as an eye surgeon while my mother ran their rare-breeds ''farmette'' - they were completely self-sufficient. My father also made her a loom and spinning wheel and she used to spin wool from the Jacob sheep and make clothes and wall-hangings.

My father insisted that my mother EBF for 7 months before introducing solids which I think was unusual for the early ''70''s. My mother breastfed all of us for nearly 2 years, except me as she got pg when I was 10 months. At the same time, they have no truck with homeopathy and are VERY anti-homebirth.

When I was 3, we moved to an island in the Pacific where whole families co-slept as a matter of course and breast-feeding was the only option as formula wasn''t available so I guess that that may have had an influence on my parenting ideas. Babies were also carried constantly and never allowed to cry.

My Health Visitor was really suprised that I co-slept - and very supportive of that and Baby Led Weaning - as I was ''white''. She''s Black African herself and I live in a very multicultural area of the UK with large Black African, Black Caribbean and Asian communities. According to her, the vast majority of Asians (mainly Indian, Pakistanti, Bangledeshi and Chinese in this area) co-sleep, around 40 of the Black communities and one or two white people. (I''m using UK standard names for BME groups - not sure if they are the same or even PC in the USA...)

I will say that it does feel a bit awkward the first few days, especially sleeping in a new position - even if it is instinctive it still feels odd physically - but it just made sense to us and now I love it. Granted, you may not sleep very deeply, but I wouldn''t even if the baby was in another room - in fact I''m so terrified of SIDS that I''d probably have been like a yo-yo checking she was still breathing let alone having to get up to feed her.

Neither DH nor I move much at night, and Daisy seems to be the same. We all like our own space and that works too - especially as she sleeps on top of the duvet and we are underneath (her choice - how she doesn''t get cold I don''t know!).

 

[Mandarine]

Night 2.....

Down at 7:30pm.

4:45am...one baby cries for........SEVEN minutes!!!

Not another peep until 6:30am!...at that point I let (alex) cry for 10 minutes, but figured it was close enough to wake up time!...so I went to get him!.

Lucas slept until 7:10am!

 

[cellososweet]

I posted this is the newborn thread, but I''m desperate for some advice. Let me know if you have any ideas.

We are having MAJOR issues and I need some advice.
First: S is doing this crazy thing where he randomly stiffens his back and screams his head off. Not consistent with anything really and it comes completely out of the blue. He is so inconsolable that the breast is the ONLY thing that will soothe him (and trust me, we''ve tried it all).

Second: He''s been waking up (again, not consistently) SCREAMING bloody murder. Absolutely screaming. His eyes are still closed, but he is screaming until he''s red in the face, snotty and out of breath. We try rocking him, soothing him, singing, talking, walking, taking him into the bathroom to see the lights (he like them. haha), NOTHING works. Eventually he actually opens his eyes and he''s ok. But getting him to actually open them is hell on earth and he screams the whole time. It''s so sad.

Lastly: He wants to nurse ALL NIGHT LONG! I don''t know where this is coming from and he used to sleep from around 9 pm-1am then nurse. He''d have a hard time falling back asleep, but generally would be out again by 2:30 and sleep until 5. Now all he wants to do is suckle suckle suckle and he is so out of sorts.

He''s teething for sure (DH and I both got teeth pretty early. I got my first one at 4 months and I think he did too), so that might be part of it. But seriously, his sleeping and screaming is so out of sorts and I have NO IDEA what''s going on. His screaming was so bad last night when my parents were watching him so we could have a date night that they actually had to call us to come home (and my parents NEVER EVER do that).

He''s on zantac for reflux, but I really don''t think that''s the problem.
HELP!

 

[gingerB]

anyone with experience using pat/shush? age it was initiated? technique? susscess/fail? how long did it take?

we started trying this to try to get A to get used to sleeping in his crib. felt like torture. is this how it is supposed to feel initially? someone tell me this works and is worth it. i keep wondering if we''re doing it wrong.

 

[Mandarine]

Cello, that sounds rough!. Have you asked the Dr???...it sounds like maybe it''s teething...maybe some tylenol would help? I''ve also heard of teething tablets (homeopathic...it works for some babies!). I''m wondering if maybe it''s something else, like an ear infection or something?

Ginger, sounds like you''re having a rough time too!. I do the pat/shushh, when they need soothing (before I give up and pick them up!). How old is your LO now?. Mine took a while to get soothed just by the patting....initially I had to do rocking a lot...and then I transitioned to the patting. I broke the rocking habit at a little over 2 months.

Moving to crib: we transitioned to the crib at 4 weeks. It was a rough week, but they got used to it. After they were sleeping in their cribs for the nights, I slowly started to make them take naps in their cribs. It'' still not perfect (and someone always ends up in the swing for 1-2 naps!)...but for teh most part they take at least 1 nap in their crib and they sleep in their cribs at night every night...



Update on my CIO for wimps

Night 3: Success! No crying, went from 7:30pm to 6:20am!. They stayed in their cribs hanging out happily until 7am and had their bottles like at 7:15am.

I''m not claiming victory yet, but I see a huge difference between how my boys dealt with "CIO" and how my friend''s baby that tried it at 4 months. He REALLY cried!...I mean, for HOURS....and for like a whole week.

I''m not opposed to CIO...but I do think there is a right time for doing it and I do believe that sometimes babies are not ready to go all night. I felt like the boys were ready, just by how they were acting when I would feed them in the middle of the night (only taking 3 oz, going right back to sleep, not that interested in the food, etc)....and well, they are going to be 6 months next week!.

I know in some extreme cases (like Sabine comes to mind), you''re left with no choice!! But for mild cases when the baby is waking up 1-2 times (like my friend''s baby), it seems unnecessary (in my opinion) to force a baby that may not be ready. But at the end of the day, I think every mom has to do what feels right for them!!!

 

[Burk]

Mandarine~Yay for the boys!!

Ginger~I''m so sorry A is having such a hard time. I''m wondering if he''s waking because of the reflux/he''s in pain? A lot of times when babies have belly pain they act hungry and actually want to eat to soothe so maybe that''s why he''s wanting to eat so much? Could you call your pedi or get in for an appt? Maybe some Zantac or other med for the reflux would help? Have you tried gripe water? Does he act like he''s in pain? T had MAJOR reflux and it was miserable.

 

[Mara]

ginger re: pat/shush... A might be too young for that one yet. we are trying it with J (he''s 9 weeks) and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn''t. from what i read in the books it''s more around ~4 months they recommend to move to that. we are instituting it anyway from time to time to see but he won''t consistently be soothed by it. if he is super mellow then it might work, i can just stand there and shhh and rub his chest til he drops off. but if he has cried for a few minutes and is reddish and fighting his swaddle then pat/shush won''t work, i need to pick him up and rock him for a minute to calm him, and then put him back down and try the pat/shh.

we try a lot of things with J and while most of them work at some point, there''s no real CONSISTENCY yet with what is foolproof. even bedtime routine sometimes takes diff things: rocking or just shhh''ing or rubbing belly or whatever...he''s diff almost every night. i think they need to be a little older for the ''routine'' to TOTALLY click in their brains, so we are just doing whatever works still and then hopefully one day he''ll be like AHH this is naptime. i can dream anyway!

for naps he mostly lets me pat/shhh him but for the nighttime one typically he won''t right off the bat. and yeah it is kind of like torture honestly. the whole walking out then walking in and pick up and put down, all of that to me is torture. i am not used to standing by the side of a crib shhhh''ing for 10 min yanno. who really is???? but you get used to it...sounds weird.

re crib sleeping.. we started J napping in his crib to help get him used to it...we didn''t want to go cold turkey. at first it was mostly him falling asleep on boob or in my arms (i think we started this at 4 weeks) and then i''d move him to crib. sometimes it would only be 15-20 min nap forhim in crib but it was successful to me. eventually he started having all his naps in crib and i''d just go put him in and leave. if he cried i''d go in and rock then put in. trying diff things. i didn''t want him to cry too much because i didnt wnat negative crib connotations for him. now he does all his naps in crib (~1 hour usually) and then his ''morning'' feed/sleep is in crib...usually 2-4 hours. we haven''t gone the ''long'' stretch with him because we''re paranoid. but i would say don''t expect A to just go down in the crib easily, it might take some transition, try naps in there, try spending time with him in there (aka i put J in there while i fold clothes and i talk to him and he coos)... etc. hope it helps!

 

[anchor31]

cello - My J does that sometimes, starting to scream bloody murder while sleeping or napping. I watched him nap a couple of times this week-end to try to figure out why he does that, and it was very obvious that he had a nightmare. I''m guessing he''s still shellshocked from his week-long stay at the hospital two weeks ago, where he was woken up at all hours of the day and night for painful procedures...

Unlike S though, he is quickly soothed by his paci and some rocking and/or sushing. Do you think he has gas? I picked up some anti-colic drops at the pharmacy today, maybe this kind of thing could help S. As for nursing through the night, it''s very exhausting... I hope it passes soon.

Mandy - Good job! I hope it keeps going well.

As for me, after 2 weeks of efforts, we''ve finally had a few nights where he was down for the night at 9PM instead of nursing at 10PM then down for the night.

Bedtime is still a painful process though. He''s had maybe half a dozen bad night with colic/gas in his first 3 months, but now that he''s on medication, he screams bloddy murder before bed every single night... At first I thought maybe he was scared of going to sleep or something, but now I''m pretty sure the medication he''s on is giving him tummy aches. He''s on teva-sulfamethoxazole-trimethoprim, an antibiotic combination used to treat UTIs until the mictional cystography test he has to take to check if he has reflux between his kidneys and bladder and cramps is a possible side effect of the drug. What makes me angry is that he may not be able to have the test done before May... It''s obvious that they aren''t the ones dealing with a screaming baby every night.

He doesn''t seem to have a lot of gas, just pain, but I picked up some anti-colic drops anyway, we''ll see if it helps.

 

[anchor31]

Mandy - Your "CIO for wimps" method inspired me to do something I called "modified CIO". I used to get up to feed J every time I would hear him wake up and start babbling because I didn''t want him to start crying, but I decided that I would wait and see if he does start to cry or not. Turns out most of the time he babbles to himself for a few minutes and goes back to sleep! Result: Only one feeding per night.

 

[TravelingGal]

anchor, glad to hear he is doing much better!

 

[fieryred33143]

I need nap help.

Specifically, how can I take a nap at work?

I keed, I keed.

Sophia is refusing naps. When she''s home with me all day, she takes 2 2.5hr naps and then sleeps 11-12 hours at night. She''s usually up by 7/8am, naps 2 hours later, wakes up, naps 3 hours later, and then goes down for the night between 7:30pm and 9pm.

When she''s not with me all day, she doesn''t nap. During the work week, I get her up at 7am to leave for MILs. She doesn''t take her first nap until 5 hours later

, naps for maybe 45 minutes

, and doesn''t nap again

. By the time she comes home, she is exhausted. Her poor little eyes have huge bags and she''s miserable.

I thought that maybe it''s just the setting...she''s not in her bed or in her room. But today FI is home with her and she woke up at 7am and took her first nap at noon. He said he tried to put her down when she first started rubbing her eyes but she refused to fall asleep.

What do you think is the cause?

 

[Mandarine]

Anchor that is great news!!!!!

I really think sometimes we underestimate the LOs!

I thought the babies would cry for hours and hours and hours which is why I set a limit (so that I would have peace of mind with my decision to go the CIO route, basically).

As an update, the LOs are doing great!...we had a couple of nights when they cried more, but then last night not a peep!. I think we''re definitely on the road to definite improvement

Fiery, I can''t help much as my guys are cat nappers! I can''t get them to nap longer than 30 minutes!!!

 

[anchor31]

TGal and Mandy - Thanks. It is a major relief that he''s doing better. The nightmares seem to be going away, and giving him the meds in the morning seem to solve the tummy ache problem. Last night, I put him in his pj''s at 7:30PM, nursed him, and he was down for the night at 8:15PM. He babbled and complained a bit, but after just a few minutes he was out like a light until 4:15AM. He was back in bed at 5-ishAM, babbled a bit, then slept soundly through to 8:15AM. It was quite a success, he''d never done the 12h night thing before. He went back on his prior daytime schedule as well yesterday. So I guess we had to muddle through a rough couple of weeks, but now things are back to normal!

DH has been anxious to be able to get J to bed early so we could have some quality time... And last night, once J was down, you know what DH did? Call his dad and talk for an hour.

... Oh well, I got to watch Bones for the first time in 14 weeks, hehe.

Mandy, congrats for sleeping the whole night!

fiery - I wish i could help, but J isn''t very good at napping when he''s not home either.

 

[KimberlyH]

i''m going to provide big picture details in case i''m missing something that might be part of what is going on that i''m just not seeing.

j is 3.5 months old. she typically naps 1.5-2 hrs after she wakes which equates to 3 naps a day for about 4 hrs total, give or take. today she had a rough time napping and ended up sleeping on and off from 1-5 and skipping her third nap. naps are hard for her in general, she fights them.

she was going to bed around 8:30, and it was starting to take longer and longer to get her down for the night, she seemed over-tired and she was starting to fuss which isn''t typical for her, so i decided it was time to put her down earlier. i moved everything up 1/2 an hour. when we started bedtime routine at 8:30 she would sleep until 3, so technically through the night, eat, then back down until 6 or 7, eat, back down, and up for good between 8 and 8:30. since i moved bedtime 2 nights ago she has woken up at 12:30 and 11:30 to eat. last night she went back down from 1:30-5, ate, then 6:30-8:30. it took her longer than normal to go back to sleep.

i know she is hungry because she also wakes once or twice a night squirms around, no crying, and eventually puts herself back to sleep with no help from me (5 to 30 minutes after waking). she also doesn''t show interest in interacting when hungry, she cries, i get her, she eats and back down she goes. this pattern hasn''t changed since the shift, except that it''s taking longer to get her back to sleep.

ultimately i want to start routine at 7:30 and have her down by 8. i''m wondering if i should continue with the time shift or go back to 8:30. is there something i''m missing or is part of shifting causing changes elsewhere in her habits?

 

[Mara]

kim when we were trying to move J''s bedtime up i tried 30 min increments to keep it small hoping it wouldn''t affect his overall schedule much. but it didn''t seem to work well. he would fuss for the extra 30 min so it ended up being useless.

i found that when i made a bigger jump it worked better. so we jumped from 10pm to 9pm then to 8pm and then to 7:30pm and sometimes 7pm. basically now he goes down at 7 or 7:30 depending on how fussy he is. really once we notice he is starting to fuss, it''s too late to start his bedtime routine...we should have started it when he''s sitting there quiet and mellow because that''s the calm before the storm. we are getting better about noticing his pre-signs but every day it''s a little different, depending on his schedule for the day. and no day is EXACTLY the same we are finding. some days he naps a little more, some days a little less, so we just adjust bedtime accordingly.

if she is waking at night and not fussing then falling back asleep to me that says she is not hungry, because she''d be crying if that was the case. i also don''t think it''s unusual for them to wake then fall back asleep--esp after their first 5-6 hours of deepest sleep. J goes through several rounds of wake/sleep, most of them we don''t even know about, after his initial burst of deep sleep.

also if she is waking then falling back asleep with no help from you-- i would try putting her down for sleep the same way and letting herself fall to sleep without you guys. when J would get harder to put down, we''d finally just say ok fine you hang out and put yourself to sleep. at first it was a little rough but after a week or so, it worked great. we started that about 3 months. now we just walk in, put him down, put on white noise, close the blinds, put the paci in and walk out. he typically will push out paci, talk to himself, flail around for 15-20 min. then he might start really crying so i will walk in and put paci back in and walk out -- at that point he is ''ready'' for sleep but he got himself that way really and thankfully we didn''t have to stand there soothing him for those 15 min--because he really didn''t need us.

 

[KimberlyH]

I was half asleep when I typed my post last night, so perhaps I wasn''t clear, I don''t get her when she wakes up and doesn''t cry, I let her put herself back to sleep. It''s when she cries that I feed her, and I know she''s hungry based on her behavior (most of the time she''s 1/2 asleep herself, eats quickly, and goes back down and I don''t have to get her all the way asleep, she''ll go down in light sleep stage, which is where she usually is when she stops eating).

I''m not comfortable with letting her cry, especially since I know she''s hungry. Never say never, but for now it''s not the right choice for us.

It turns out she had a stomach ache last night, woke again at 1:30, pooped at 2:30 then went back down until her normal 6:30 meal.

I''m pretty consistent with getting her down between 1.5-2 hours after she wakes, so the routine is there and I watch for sleep cues. I may get there a bit late, but never to the point where I can''t get her down, it just takes a bit longer. I decided to move her bedtime because she was starting to show signs of being overly tired by the time I was starting her routine and it was taking a long time to get her settled. I''m flexible regarding the time, I aim for the above timeframe rather than a specific bedtime. I''m just wondering why the earlier bedtime has resulted in cutting her normal first sleep period in half. Perhaps it''s just an adjustment to things changing.

I don''t want her in bed at 7 for several reasons, but will move it to that time if it''s better for her. Just not sure that''s the answer at this point.

 

[fieryred33143]

Kim, how did today go? I was wondering if maybe the change in her sleep had to do with the change in her normal nap schedule yesterday.

 

[Mara]

sorry kim, i was confused by this "i know she is hungry because she also wakes once or twice a night squirms around, no crying, and eventually puts herself back to sleep with no help from me (5 to 30 minutes after waking)."... to me that says she ISN'T hungry if she goes back to sleep without fussing, that is what i was referencing.

anyway, since it's only been 2 nights maybe stick with it and see how it goes for another few nights? i notice too that even small things aka like temperature can affect how J sleeps...has anything else changed? and there are always growth spurts, it seems like he has one every few weeks. it makes it hard to estimate if it's changes *I* am making or something totally out of my control that is affecting him. i try to have a mental rule that if he does something once or twice it's not a big deal but more than that and i get worried it might become a 'habit'.

 

[KimberlyH]

she only took two naps today for a total of about four hours, so i started routine at 7:00, she''d been up for three hours at that point. i''d have started earlier but expected her to take another nap, she fought it, and we needed to have dinner. she''s been up every 1/2 hour or so since, it''s now going on 11. 16 wk growrth spurt, i don''t know . i do know i''m very tired.

letting her cry just doesn''t sit well with me at this point, but i can understand why people do it.

thanks for asking fiery.

mara i understand the confusion, it was not a well constructed sentence, that''s for sure. here''s hoping this passes, it seems it has in the past. perhaps i''m pushing too hard for a routine/schedule that she isn''t ready for.

 

[KimberlyH]

she slept from 11:15-5:30. woke up at 2:30 and put herself back to sleep. crazy kid. not sure what i should do differently today except make sure the gap between bedtime and last nap isn''t so big..

 

[Mara]

Kim, J''s nap routine used to be really spotty and sometimes still is. he won''t always nap when he should or he''ll nap longer etc. i don''t really worry too much about his nap routine if his nighttime sleeping is going well. but maybe you are right that your J is not ready for a full routine yet. most of the time it''s *around* the same time for J''s naps, but it''s not hard set. when he was younger i was all into strict routine but i found that if the kid isn''t totally into it then it can make a really frustrating time for mom. so i keep a loose routine and most of the time it goes ok.

as for 16 week growth spurt, there is a 4month growth spurt, you can google 4month wakeful and it also talks about the growth spurt that accompanies it.

we''re currently dealing with ''rolling''... J was doing really well with unswaddling but now he can roll so he wakes up crying on his stomach. so we have to get up, reposition him and soothe him back down. last nite it was 3x. i hope he masters it soon!

hang in there, i figure once you get something figured out the kids like to change it on you!

 

[KimberlyH]

if anything i would think she''d be behind on growth spurts because she was early. maybe this is her three month?

i definitely am not focused on a schedule forced by the clock, i''m all about routine based on her cuers.

maybe i needto back off.